Author Topic: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?  (Read 3106 times)

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #174 on: May 28, 2014, 01:48:21 AM »
I'm not better than God and I don't impose my will unto others.
That's not what you said in the post I quoted.
That's not what you INTERPRETED in the post you quoted. I know what I said and I didn't say I was better than God. Nor that I force anyone to believe in God.
Quote
It wouldn't diminish the value of the originals;
That's a lie. The rarer the thing is the more value it has.[1]
Quote
it would just mean that there'd be two originals.
Can't you see how crazy it is? You wish so hard to be right that you make up things.

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If you're talking about how long it'd make me happy for, not long.
You are asking for a miracle. It won't be a miracle if the consequence are not long term and good.

I said :
I'm really sad that she is sick. I will pray for her, [so that] even in her sickness, she will find someone like you who love her so much that it makes her world more joyful/perfect.
You answered :
Quote
Ah, praying... The theists' way of saying "Fuck whomever; I just want to feel good about doing nothing".
Thanks, but no thanks.
Wouldn't that have been better if you to said "thank you for your support" instead of insulting me?
 1. http://blog.pricecharting.com/2012/07/the-10-rarest-most-expensive-video-games.html
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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #175 on: May 28, 2014, 07:33:17 AM »
Quote
Perhaps a response to this:
The fact that anyone would allow an innocent person to suffer for someone else's transgressions is disgusting, and such a being is unworthy of praise.  Period.
or
The fact that anyone would not stop an innocent person from suffering for someone else's transgressions is disgusting, and such a being is unworthy of praise.  Period.
Would help clear the air.
Both are true if we talk about human beings, humans who can impose their will unto others. In God's case he allows the someone to do the transgression.
God could have stopped Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit but he chose not to because doing so would be going against their will.

emphasis added.

Luk, it seems clear that, since you cited Genesis as an example, you take the Old Testament literally.  Perhaps you could explain, then, how it is that Yahweh "hardened the heart of Pharoh" -- multiple times -- so that he could flex his divine muscles agianst Egypt, and how that was not a violation of the free will of Pharoh and the Egyptians he killed through the Ten Plagues.

Edit: in fact, Pharoh let The Chosen Ones go after the 10th plague of murdering all first born (free will?!?!), then Yahweh hardened Pharoh's heart AGAIN so he'd chase after them and Yahweh could then drown the entire army...

Luk, I know you've been busy, but it appears you missed this question.  If you're of a mind, would you consider answering it?
It's one of the reasons I'm an atheist today.  I decided to take my religion seriously, and that's when it started to fall apart for me.
~jdawg70

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #176 on: May 28, 2014, 07:38:39 AM »
God is omnipotent indeed. He chose to not interfere directly without our consent in our lives because he created us free. He decided that being free is more important than all the sin in the world.
This is an apologists argument for why God never appears or does anything. The same can be said of dragons and unicorns.
Quote
It might not be the case one day, and that day might be the end of the world.
1. And pigs might fly.
2. and on the other hand, He might not do anything at all... ever...
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #177 on: May 28, 2014, 07:58:05 AM »
That is, wouldn't god be violating my free will to convince person A that there is no evidence of god if god provided this evidence at the behest of person A's desire for said evidence?
Oh! you mean is God impeding your will (which is to provide me with evidence that God does not exist) by providing me evidence of his existence? No he is not.
In any case : God is not violating someones will.
Let's take an extreme hypothetical case : You want to kill me barehanded. I ask god for a gun. He gives me a gun. God did not violate your will to kill me.
True story : I wanted that book, my parents didn't want to buy it for me. I had almost enough cash to buy it myself, was missing 2$. I prayed God to give me 2$. Then I went to the book store. Guess what I found on the road there? 2$. Usually people don't let 2$ out of their pockets on the street, we usually find 25 cents. That day, I found 2$. Did God impede with my parents will? No, I did :)

How about another extreme case?  You wanted to give a 6-year old child terminal cancer.  The 6-year old's parents ask god to cure this cancer.  God cures the cancer.  Did god violate your free will?
Or another case?  You wanted to rape a woman.  The woman asks god to stop you.  God *poofs* you away.  Did god violate your free will?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #178 on: May 28, 2014, 07:58:52 AM »
Can't you see how crazy it is? You wish so hard to be right that you make up things.
^^^Second most ironic post on the Internet.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline One Above All

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #179 on: May 28, 2014, 09:21:48 AM »
That's not what you INTERPRETED in the post you quoted. I know what I said and I didn't say I was better than God. Nor that I force anyone to believe in God.

You said:
"God does not impose his will on others"
Then you said:
"I impose my will on others"
Therefore, either you're more powerful than your god (which is technically true, seeing as how it/he doesn't exist), or you're just better than it/him.

That's a lie. The rarer the thing is the more value it has.[1]
 1. http://blog.pricecharting.com/2012/07/the-10-rarest-most-expensive-video-games.html

As I said, it would just be until I saw it with my own eyes. It would turn back to its original state afterward. I might not have specified that in my post here, but I didn't think your god needed that tidbit. Or is it/he not omniscient? If so, we might as well end this conversation right here, as I will not bow to anything less than complete and utter perfection, which includes, but is not limited to, omniscience. Of course, if we took into account the way the world is, we'd end this conversation anyway.

Can't you see how crazy it is? You wish so hard to be right that you make up things.

Omnipotence much? Is your god not infinitely capable? Can't it just make a copy, atom by atom, of anything?

You are asking for a miracle. It won't be a miracle if the consequence are not long term and good.

So your god is just a pussy? It can't handle a small army of iron chariots? Well, I guess that settles that... Imma call Satan right now and give him a few tips. At least he answers the phone.

Quote from: Actual phone call between One Above All and Satan. TOTALLY, 110% LEGIT
*ringing*
*picking up*
OAA: Satan? 'Sup? It's me, Hélio.
Satan: Hey, guy. How's it going?
OAA: Fine, fine... Say, you know how you're always trying to get rid of that YHWH guy?
Satan: Oh, don't get me started... All I did was give you humans actual free will and actual knowledge by telling you the truth about the apple, and, all of a sudden, I'm the bad guy! They named me Satan and tossed me in Hell and everything! Do you even know what "Satan" means? It means "enemy". My name's Carl, for Hell's sake!
OAA: I know, right! That's why I wanted to call you. Have you ever actually read the Bible before since your creation by YHWH a few thousand years ago?
Satan: Not really...
OAA: Well, you should. There's this nifty trick about iron chariots and YHWH. Iron makes him limp, metaphorically speaking. Although I'm sure it also applies literally.
Satan: Really? Fancy that...
OAA: That's what I thought. I did some searching, and it seems that iron is seen in all cultures as something that protected them from evil.
Satan: Well, that explains a few things... Wait, where did you find out about this?
OAA: Wikipedia; where else? At least the iron being used as protection from evil thing. I saw YHWH's weakness against iron in the Bible itself.
Satan: Wow! Thanks, Hélio! I'm gonna raise an army using the iron from the Earth's core! Should be enough to create weapons for all my demons.
OAA: No problem. Tell me how it goes, alright?
Satan: Sure thing.
*click*

Well, I guess you'd better buckle up, Lukvance. Armageddon/The Apocalypse/The End is coming. By the time you finish reading this post, it will be Hell on Earth.

I said :
<snip>
Wouldn't that have been better if you to said "thank you for your support" instead of insulting me?

If you were providing support, sure. But you're not, and you know it.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline jtk73

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #180 on: May 28, 2014, 01:22:09 PM »
The cancer is a direct consequence of the smoke the kid inhaled.

WRONG! It is a direct "result". The smoker(s) are not realizing any direct consequences only in-direct consequences (suffering of or losing a child presumably related). The child is not realizing any direct consequences as the consequences the he/she is experiencing are not a result of any action of the child.

I like to go back to Adam and Eve and the forbidden fruit. They were free, God told them to not eat the fruit. They thought they knew better than him....

Bold mine. They did NOT think that they knew better than Yahweh. A talking animal (serpent), surely a rarity even in the garden of Eden, told them that it was okay. How would they determine the truth? Yahweh didn't swing by and hit the serpent with a newspaper and tell them to disregard everything the serpent spoke. He was nowhere to be found until it was too late.

The Pharaoh's story is not a factual event.

It doesn't matter. It still highlights what a huge, passive-aggressive a$$h0le Yahweh actually is.

You could have all the evidence you need.

Then why doesn't he (epidemic) have all of the evidence that he needs?

Quote
God does not obscure the facts so look for them.

Why would one have to look for them if they are not obscured??

Offline JoeNobody

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #181 on: May 28, 2014, 01:43:51 PM »
I can breathe without the intervention of any deity. I'm doing it now.

Well, you certainly can't prove that.

Since there are many, many, many proposed deities, it would be quicker to demonstrate that there IS on involved. I invite you to pray that your god interfere with my breathing. He needn't kill me, just stop my breathing for, say, a minute at 7:30pm central time.

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #182 on: May 28, 2014, 01:45:07 PM »
The Pharaoh's story is not a factual event.
Mary could have said no. She probably did in one of the parallel universes.

how do you differentiate which events the bible depicts as factual or non-factual?
It's one of the reasons I'm an atheist today.  I decided to take my religion seriously, and that's when it started to fall apart for me.
~jdawg70

Offline JoeNobody

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #183 on: May 28, 2014, 01:47:09 PM »
So then, this "God" character should use his "free will" to stop the rapist.

No, because this life is a test for us, not a test for God. God wants us to figure things out on our own. How else would we prove our worth to Him? It's all meaningless if He just interferes with every decision. Then we would just be puppets on a string.

So the victim must suffer for the sake of a test? Is your god not powerful enough to administer a test in which no one but the subject suffers?

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #184 on: May 28, 2014, 01:54:19 PM »
The Pharaoh's story is not a factual event.
Mary could have said no. She probably did in one of the parallel universes.

how do you differentiate which events the bible depicts as factual or non-factual?

They're all factual - some are factual for parallel universe A, some are factual for parallel universe B, and still others are factual for parallel universe C.  Lukvance knows that the Pharaoh's story isn't a factual event in this universe because love and math.  He knows Mary said 'yes' in this universe because of math and gravity.  He knows about the existence of these parallel universes because it's written in the Catholic catechisms in a different parallel universe.  He knows it's written in those catechisms because love and math.  He knows that what's written in those catechisms in that universe is true because of math and freedom.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline jtk73

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #185 on: May 28, 2014, 02:15:42 PM »
No, because this life is a test for us

Why would he do that? Why would he need to do that? So his test for us is for us to worship him or be tortured for eternity?

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God wants us to figure things out on our own.

That is awesome! I figured out that he doesn't exist! I am doing exactly what he wants me to do!

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How else would we prove our worth to Him?

INORITE! Who...is going to stroke his massive ego?

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It's all meaningless if He just interferes with every decision.

Absolutely. Much better to go with threats of damnation to achieve desired behavior.

Quote
Then we would just be puppets on a string.

Just like perfect Adam and perfect Eve in the perfect garden of Eden. Puppets for Yahweh.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #186 on: May 28, 2014, 03:25:34 PM »
This is an apologists argument for why God never appears or does anything. The same can be said of dragons and unicorns.
Everything has been fine tuned and obeys laws of physics, biology and chemistry so that life can survive in the Goldilocks zone. This is not imaginary thinking - it is what it is. According to you all this is a freak accident of dead matter and billions of years of evolution of dead matter? Yet no dead matter has ever come to life in your experience. It is nothing more than you living in an imaginary world of your own creation.

According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #187 on: May 28, 2014, 05:55:47 PM »
No, because this life is a test for us

Why would he do that? Why would he need to do that? So his test for us is for us to worship him or be tortured for eternity?

Quote
God wants us to figure things out on our own.

That is awesome! I figured out that he doesn't exist! I am doing exactly what he wants me to do!

Quote
How else would we prove our worth to Him?

INORITE! Who...is going to stroke his massive ego?

Quote
It's all meaningless if He just interferes with every decision.

Absolutely. Much better to go with threats of damnation to achieve desired behavior.

Quote
Then we would just be puppets on a string.

Just like perfect Adam and perfect Eve in the perfect garden of Eden. Puppets for Yahweh.

No, Adam and Eve were given a free choice. Just like parents give their child a free choice of "No cookies before dinner." Why doesn't the parent just hide the cookies? Because then the child wouldn't learn self-control and self-discipline.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #188 on: May 28, 2014, 08:46:59 PM »
how do you differentiate which events the bible depicts as factual or non-factual?
I used what is called the historicity of the bible. And teachings/testimonies from other believers and the catechism :
126 "The Church holds firmly that the four Gospels, "whose historicity she unhesitatingly affirms, faithfully hand on what Jesus, the Son of God, while he lived among men, really did and taught for their eternal salvation, until the day when he was taken up."[1]
 1. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/126.htm
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #189 on: May 28, 2014, 08:48:35 PM »
Luk, I know you've been busy, but it appears you missed this question.  If you're of a mind, would you consider answering it?
I'm sorry what was the question?
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #190 on: May 28, 2014, 08:52:59 PM »
God is omnipotent indeed. He chose to not interfere directly without our consent in our lives because he created us free. He decided that being free is more important than all the sin in the world.
This is an apologists argument for why God never appears or does anything. The same can be said of dragons and unicorns.
Dragons created us? that's new...
God does things (indirectly). Everyday.

Quote
Quote
It might not be the case one day, and that day might be the end of the world.
1. And pigs might fly.
2. and on the other hand, He might not do anything at all... ever...
Exactly!
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #191 on: May 28, 2014, 08:54:51 PM »
How about another extreme case?  You wanted to give a 6-year old child terminal cancer.  The 6-year old's parents ask god to cure this cancer.  God cures the cancer.  Did god violate your free will?
Or another case?  You wanted to rape a woman.  The woman asks god to stop you.  God *poofs* you away.  Did god violate your free will?
I don't like these examples. Could you use one out of your personal experience?
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #192 on: May 28, 2014, 09:41:45 PM »
How about another extreme case?  You wanted to give a 6-year old child terminal cancer.  The 6-year old's parents ask god to cure this cancer.  God cures the cancer.  Did god violate your free will?
Or another case?  You wanted to rape a woman.  The woman asks god to stop you.  God *poofs* you away.  Did god violate your free will?
I don't like these examples. Could you use one out of your personal experience?
I'd prefer to not delve into personal experience on a topic like this, and on top of that, I do not see in what way you would like personal examples over hypothetical examples representative of scenarios that occur in reality.  It is irrelevant whether the examples are personal or not.

Could you explain why you do not like these examples?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #193 on: May 28, 2014, 10:06:24 PM »
I'd prefer to not delve into personal experience on a topic like this, and on top of that, I do not see in what way you would like personal examples over hypothetical examples representative of scenarios that occur in reality.  It is irrelevant whether the examples are personal or not.

Could you explain why you do not like these examples?
Hypothetical example like yours lack the small things that makes life and decisions like the questions you ask more complicated than the hypothetical examples.
The kid and the rape examples are consequences of sin. They are not hapoy things to dwell on.
Someone asked me one day: "do you think you have the merit to live?" Today I am living this life in a way that when I die I would be closer to say yes than I am today.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #194 on: May 29, 2014, 03:42:41 AM »
That's not what you INTERPRETED in the post you quoted. I know what I said and I didn't say I was better than God. Nor that I force anyone to believe in God.

You said:
"God does not impose his will on others"
Then you said:
"I impose my will on others"
Therefore, either you're more powerful than your god (which is technically true, seeing as how it/he doesn't exist), or you're just better than it/him.

I'd also like to note that your god DOES impose its/his will onto others. What was creation? Creating things (I'm talking about humans specifically) that didn't want to be created. Eden? Your god gave specific instructions/demands NOT to eat the apple of knowledge of good and evil. So, per your own Bible, you're WRONG.
Quod erat demonstrandum.

So your god is just a pussy? It can't handle a small army of iron chariots? Well, I guess that settles that... Imma call Satan right now and give him a few tips. At least he answers the phone.

Unsurprisingly, nothing happened... Awkward!
Either Satan failed, in which case he'd have come to drag me to Hell or whatever, and the Bible was lying, or neither he nor your god exist.

EDIT: Also, still waiting for those paintings to change... I guess your god will get around to it in, oh say... never.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #195 on: May 29, 2014, 11:14:24 AM »
I'd prefer to not delve into personal experience on a topic like this, and on top of that, I do not see in what way you would like personal examples over hypothetical examples representative of scenarios that occur in reality.  It is irrelevant whether the examples are personal or not.

Could you explain why you do not like these examples?
Hypothetical example like yours lack the small things that makes life and decisions like the questions you ask more complicated than the hypothetical examples.
The kid and the rape examples are consequences of sin. They are not hapoy things to dwell on.
Could you perhaps add some hypothetical details and decisions that would make it such that god did violate your free will in those cases, and some hypothetical details and decisions that would make it such that god did not violate your free will?

Quote
Someone asked me one day: "do you think you have the merit to live?" Today I am living this life in a way that when I die I would be closer to say yes than I am today.
I have no idea how this relates to anything.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #196 on: May 29, 2014, 11:26:00 AM »
It's one of the reasons I'm an atheist today.  I decided to take my religion seriously, and that's when it started to fall apart for me.
~jdawg70

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #197 on: May 30, 2014, 01:47:14 AM »
I'd also like to note that your god DOES impose its/his will onto others. What was creation?
"God created the world to show forth and communicate his glory. That his creatures should share in his truth, goodness and beauty - this is the glory for which God created them."[1]
Quote
Creating things (I'm talking about humans specifically) that didn't want to be created.
How do you know that they had a will before being created? Are you saying that giving birth is not a good thing?
Quote
Eden? Your god gave specific instructions/demands NOT to eat the apple of knowledge of good and evil. So, per your own Bible, you're WRONG.

Not at all. You are hugely mistaken. Demanding is not impairing your free will.
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Unsurprisingly, nothing happened... Awkward!
Either Satan failed, in which case he'd have come to drag me to Hell or whatever, and the Bible was lying, or neither he nor your god exist.
Have you finished with your fantasy ? Can we go back to the subject at hand?
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EDIT: Also, still waiting for those paintings to change... I guess your god will get around to it in, oh say... never.
Keep waiting? I thought I demonstrated to you how crazy this idea was and how it could never work. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. No I won't pray for you paintings to change.
 1. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p4.htm#I
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #198 on: May 30, 2014, 02:04:22 AM »
I'd prefer to not delve into personal experience on a topic like this, and on top of that, I do not see in what way you would like personal examples over hypothetical examples representative of scenarios that occur in reality.  It is irrelevant whether the examples are personal or not.

Could you explain why you do not like these examples?
Hypothetical example like yours lack the small things that makes life and decisions like the questions you ask more complicated than the hypothetical examples.
The kid and the rape examples are consequences of sin. They are not hapoy things to dwell on.
Could you perhaps add some hypothetical details and decisions that would make it such that god did violate your free will in those cases, and some hypothetical details and decisions that would make it such that god did not violate your free will?

How about another extreme case?  You wanted to give a 6-year old child terminal cancer.  The 6-year old's parents ask god to cure this cancer.  God cures the cancer.  Did god violate your free will?

In that hypothetical case, Yes. He wouldn't have violate my free will if he did not cure the kid cancer and let me enough time to inject the cure into the test subject (the child.)
Or another case?  You wanted to rape a woman.  The woman asks god to stop you.  God *poofs* you away.  Did god violate your free will?

In that hypothetical case, Yes.  He wouldn't have violate my free will if he did not poof me away and allowed me to explain to my handicapped amnesic wife that we are married and that I was just wanted to change her gown.

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Someone asked me one day: "do you think you have the merit to live?" Today I am living this life in a way that when I die I would be closer to say yes than I am today.
I have no idea how this relates to anything.
It was an attempt to return to the question at hand "why is there sin in the world?" by explaining why I lived my sinful life with God.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #199 on: May 30, 2014, 02:07:09 AM »
I'm sorry what was the question?
it's quoted in this link:
Still not seeing any questions.
"Pharoh let The Chosen Ones go after the 10th plague of murdering all first born (free will?!?!)" Is that it? If so I don't understand it. You think that the 10 plague are real historical facts?
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #200 on: May 30, 2014, 02:30:22 AM »
*cough*

How is sin still being equated with free will, when we don't even know whether we live in a world with free will?

Say the world was like Newton believed: everything going like clockwork, with nothing happening that wasn't planned. People would still be doing sinful things, as defined by the Bible; yet, there would be no free will.

When Luk says "free will" he actually means "human", because, as we know, animals can't sin, because they have no free will. (circular definition)

There are some types of "sin" that I can think of
(1) individual survival: here an individual steals food off another, so he can survive. This is defined as a sin by the Bible, but animals have no problem doing it. Stealing can make life easier for the animal/person that does it.
(2) stimulatory decadence: person gets hooked on drugs and drags their girlfriend into it. He then lives with dope addicts, surrounded by stolen parts, and melodramatic people sleeping in his hallway, stealing his stuff. Cool lifestyle, bro.
(3) optional psychopathic sin: person just decides to kill his neighbour, or steal funds from retirement fund, for kicks

So, you can see that some sin makes your life easier, and some sin makes your life harder. Screw around and get HIV; your life gets harder. Behave like a suburban square and play by the rules, never give money to charity, then your life gets easier.

The types of sin that we are compelled to do, because we need to survive, are things where we have diminished freedom. Jesus says "give all your money away", but nobody does, because it's idiotic. We don't have the free will do do what he says, because the system will make it difficult for us. Jesus says don't think about food, yet every animal has to think about food, or it dies. Some can elect to be vegetarian, because they regard killing animals as a sin. However, most humans are probably compelled to commit this sin, due to lack of freedom. We are born to sin in this way, just as we like jerking off and screwing around.

Another thing which diminishes freedom is a brain tumour, that makes you so bad tempered that you want to shoot kids in school. When a child does that, he is a deemed an evil sinner, but when a brain scan shows a tumour, everyone suddenly understands that he had diminished freedom. Then he's a poor victim.

The reason Christianity likes the words "free will", is that it's all about blame. The religion just doesn't work without people blaming and judging, being neurotic and guilty.

You cannot prove whether or not we live in a deterministic universe with no free will, and even if we lived in one where events could be random, the deck is still stacked against us, because of diminished freedom.

Christianity likes to pretend that the guy in the wheelchair with allergies, had the freedom to get healed and give his money away and go help people in Africa, because keeping that dream alive helps people be in a perpetual state of guilt.

BLAME: that's all it's about.

Define humans to have free will, without showing any evidence or examining what it really is, and then say "you chose to go to hell - not God's fault". END OF STORY.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 02:55:07 AM by Add Homonym »
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #201 on: May 30, 2014, 03:12:06 AM »
BTW, what I just said, answers this thread terribly well. There is sin in the world because some people need to blame others for various things.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Since God is almighty why is there sin in the world?
« Reply #202 on: May 30, 2014, 09:29:17 AM »
How about another extreme case?  You wanted to give a 6-year old child terminal cancer.  The 6-year old's parents ask god to cure this cancer.  God cures the cancer.  Did god violate your free will?

In that hypothetical case, Yes. He wouldn't have violate my free will if he did not cure the kid cancer and let me enough time to inject the cure into the test subject (the child.)
But that's sort of the opposite of the case I was presenting.  If god did cure the cancer, did god violate your free will?

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Or another case?  You wanted to rape a woman.  The woman asks god to stop you.  God *poofs* you away.  Did god violate your free will?

In that hypothetical case, Yes.  He wouldn't have violate my free will if he did not poof me away and allowed me to explain to my handicapped amnesic wife that we are married and that I was just wanted to change her gown.
But that's sort of the opposite of the case I was presenting.  If god did *poof* you away, did god violate your free will?

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Quote from: Lukvance
Someone asked me one day: "do you think you have the merit to live?" Today I am living this life in a way that when I die I would be closer to say yes than I am today.
I have no idea how this relates to anything.
It was an attempt to return to the question at hand "why is there sin in the world?" by explaining why I lived my sinful life with God.
Ok.  Though I don't see in what way it is a response, let alone an answer, to the question "why is there sin in the world?"
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

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