Author Topic: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god  (Read 2113 times)

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2014, 01:25:57 PM »
Sorry to interrupt.  I hope this adds to the discussion, though.
Luk, how does your current line of argument/ question reconcile with this post?
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,26572.msg608108.html#msg608108

You seem to want the bible to be true and false at the same time.

Thank you. The Bible is the true word of God. There is a difference between a Story (OT) and History(NT). Both can be written down by limited humans inspired by God.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #59 on: June 17, 2014, 01:53:09 PM »
Last thing I remember is telling you that I don't believe that you punching me means that God wants me to suffer.  It means you do.  I think God would not want you to want me to suffer. ;)
I asked you If I was stronger than God? (Since my will seems to be stronger than his)

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I want to know why you are even religious when the scriptures I provided clearly shows the bible says not to be, Jesus says not to be.
They do not clearly shows that. You agreed with me. Remember? I proved you that it was because your teacher taught you wrong that you thought they were showing that we shouldn't be religious.
Jesus clearly teach us to be together and not alone in our faith.

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What did Jesus say about those that hurt the little children?  That is the fate of the Catholic church, if you use your bible.  Yelp I wouldn't be caught near a Catholic church if I believed the bible.  Would not want to be there when God's wrath comes down on their heads for all the little children they have hurt.
You want me to make you move out of your own house again? because statistics proved you wrong.
I thought you agreed this debate to be my win. Do you still want to go at it? I can bring back the flaw in your logic.
You're worth more than my time

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2014, 03:52:54 AM »
I gave you the win because you wanted it not because you earned it.  You did not PROVE anything my dear except statistics are useless and bias.  You showed us what really matters to you is winning and what is right and wrong don't matter to you only winning.

My teacher is God.  Are you saying God is wrong? 

The instructions given by Jesus is very clear to not be religious.  To be taught by God not by man.   

I'm definitely tired of you dodging every point I make. 

I can tell you're doing this for you.  You only care about you.  You don't care about making the world a better place.  You seem to be perfectly content with the status quo.   You are part of the problem.  You are afraid.  Your religion dumbos down God.  If that isn't destruction I don't know what is. 

You're bible describes a cruel and vain God.  That is destructive to God and to mankind.  Do you not know that the trail of blood and heartache religion has left in it's path would fill the Atlantic ocean.  If that kind of stuff pleases God then God can go to hell too.  I don't think it does so I reject religion because of all the devastation it has already caused God and man.  Because I Love God and man.  I have hope that we as a species will learn our lesson about being religious.

What do you think it does to God when a christian takes a life in the name of God?  When governments declare war in the name of God?

If God loves us it must destroy God.  As much as it aches my spirit it must ache God's 100 x's more.   When I say religion destroys God I don't mean "takes the life" I mean destroys the spirit.

Look in the poverty stricken towns do they look "happy" or broken?  Look at the rich, they are even more broken.  They may look "happy" but I think they are not.  That's why they need all that money.  Everybody thinks money is the secret to happiness, I do not.  I think greed is the devil and ego is his wife.  Materialism sucks.  Christianity is a very rich religion.  Especially the Vatican.  All that money they have while people are living in poverty.  It makes me want to explode that they associate themselves with God.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2014, 12:34:15 PM »
Why don't you live in poverty?
Am I stronger than God? (Since my will seems to be stronger than his)
Are you sure you are taught by God. The way I see it, it's a demon disguised as God that is teaching you.
You're worth more than my time

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2014, 05:55:51 AM »
Why don't you live in poverty?
Am I stronger than God? (Since my will seems to be stronger than his)
Are you sure you are taught by God. The way I see it, it's a demon disguised as God that is teaching you.

A god that allows demons to pose as God is a cruel God that does not deserve my gratitude or my worship.  In fact that kind of god deserves nothing but destruction.

I have been in and out of poverty my whole life.  My estate is worth about 1000 dollars.  My most valuable possession is a Gibson Guitar that I cherish.  I got laid off in 2013 and soon after got diagnosed with cancer.  I haven't worked in over a year, so yes I am living in poverty.  My partner struggles to support us on 1 humble income.  My son, DIL and grandson are here because my son can't find a decent job. 

Please tell me how do I tell the difference?  I want nothing to do with demons. 

You do not think before you speak.  You are saying that after being abused as a child rejected by the church and my parents that my cries/screams for comfort was answered by a demon instead of God.  Well then I will follow that demon.  That demon loved me more than god.  I was just a child. 

Do you see how awful your religious perspective of God is now? 

You have just blasphemed the Holy Spirit of God.  I would be very worried if I was you. :o

That's the only unforgivable sin according to your religion.  I believe you have been forgiven, I forgive you.

What did Jesus say would happen to someone that hurt children?


Bold so maybe you will answer a question.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2014, 03:40:29 PM »
Please tell me how do I tell the difference?  I want nothing to do with demons. 
Religion will help you discern.

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Do you see how awful your religious perspective of God is now? 
No.

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What did Jesus say would happen to someone that hurt children?
I don't remember. Something about the guardian angels protecting them?

Am I stronger than God? (Since my will seems to be stronger than his)
You're worth more than my time

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #64 on: June 20, 2014, 08:30:32 AM »
Not knowing what your own Lord says shows how blindly you will follow your men.

Religion helped me discern NOTHING.  Spirit helps me discern just fine thank you. 

I do not even take that claim seriously. 

If you can't see how bad your perspective is you have no Love for your neighbor.  I do not consider you a follower of Jesus Christ.  I consider you a follower of man.
 
Read Mark 7, the whole chapter.  It's a good read.

As far as what did Jesus say.  He said; "it would be better if a millstone was hanged from his neck and that he was drowned in the depth of the sea.  Matt. 18:6.

That is the fate of the Catholic church so sayeth your Lord.  They should not have covered up for those perverted priests.  All of Man's religion has hurt children in many many many ways.   

You know you could have picked up your bible and found out for yourself but yet you chose to depend on me.  You're really hooked on man, man.

I see it like this you trust man because you do not trust God.  I trust God not to let demons trick me into believing something I shouldn't.

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Am I stronger than God? (Since my will seems to be stronger than his)

NO for the last time.  I said I don't know what point you're trying to make here.  Make it already.  I don't like set up questions.  Just make your point please.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #65 on: June 20, 2014, 08:46:04 AM »
I have to add if religion was so good at discerning there would not still be so many of them to chose from.  Over 4,000 Christianity alone.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #66 on: June 20, 2014, 12:53:33 PM »
As far as what did Jesus say.  He said; "it would be better if a millstone was hanged from his neck and that he was drowned in the depth of the sea.  Matt. 18:6.
  Who did he said that to? You? What was he talking about when he said that?
I am asking you not because I don't want to take the bible and read it but because you don't believe the bible and you quote it nevertheless so I am asking your understanding of that passage since you don't believe in the Bible.

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You know you could have picked up your bible and found out for yourself but yet you chose to depend on me.  You're really hooked on man, man.
  Oh no I don't depend on you. I am talking to you about your faith. You don't believe in the Bible how can I depend on you concerning things about the bible? Non sense.

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Am I stronger than God? (Since my will seems to be stronger than his)
NO for the last time.  I said I don't know what point you're trying to make here.  Make it already.  I don't like set up questions.  Just make your point please.
I made My point. God wants you to suffer since he does not will for you to not suffer when I punch you. If he willed you to not suffer you would not since his will is stronger than mine. If he wanted you to not suffer and you suffer anyway, it means my will is stronger than God :)
You're worth more than my time

Offline screwtape

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #67 on: June 20, 2014, 03:07:14 PM »
God wants you to suffer since he does not will for you to not suffer when I punch you.

That is higly inappropriate. 
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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #68 on: June 21, 2014, 07:26:48 AM »
God does not want me to suffer.  God comforts my suffering.  You want me to suffer not God.  I forgive you so God will forgive me my trespass.

I quote the bible because you believe it and I can't understand why.  Did I not read you saying the OT wasn't real?  So you are halfway there yourself, no?

He was talking to the disciples.  I'm taking it to mean don't hurt children/believers or else.   He is answering the question; who is the greatest in the kingdom of God.  Those with childlike faith. 

Do you believe God Loves Us at all Luk?

Why would a loving God want this sweet little girl to suffer?  Me and dad 1976/77.



Can you prove demons exist?  I don't believe they do. 


Because I have studied the bible for 30 years.  I seem to know it better than you.  Religion made me hate God then I just didn't believe at all.  Then a car accident happened and I slowly started to think about God again.  God's spirit not demons have been here ever since.  I should be examined by a priest.  I'm calling the local Catholic church.  If they cast a demon out of me I'll go with you Sunday morning.

Do demons comfort you?  Teach you to love with all your heart, soul, body and mind.  To be kind to others and charitable.  To be humble.

Did you read Mark 7?  I was hoping you would comment.

No Luk we are talking about your faith and mine.  I asked you what Jesus said and you said;"I don't know".  That's 101 man.

I'm saying you do not know enough about the bible to understand my perception.  I do understand yours.  And it is not good.

Please define "your" perception of Love.

That is the big difference here between you and I.  I think we perceive love differently.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #69 on: June 21, 2014, 03:50:04 PM »
God does not want me to suffer.  God comforts my suffering.  You want me to suffer not God.  I forgive you so God will forgive me my trespass.
Then why don't your god protect you in the case someone punch you? Why do you feel pain?

if you read the bible you would know that the Devil will present himself as God and will have all the attribute you wish him to have and will charm you so well that you will turn your back on God and worship him instead.
I'm not saying that you are possessed by a demon (no need for anexorcist) I am just wondering how do you know that it is not the Devil that you are worshiping?
The way you describe your relation to god is exactly the way the Devil would want.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2014, 05:36:28 AM »
Please define Love.

How could a demon make me so darn good?  It seems counter productive to me.  I just don't think a demon would give God credit for making me so kind and compassionate. 

The bible says not to be religious.  To connect with God through spirit.  That's what I do.  I am not worried about demons or man's lies.

I am more like Jesus than you.  On top of that this stuff ain't "Good News".  So you should keep it to yourself maybe.

I'm convinced it has always been God that comforts me and guides me.

The obvious explanation is religion teaches you this stuff to keep you under their spell.  They keep you away from God with their rituals, long prayers and speeches.

I can't believe you are trying so hard to convince me God doesn't Love me.  That's a new one and it's also a disgrace to God.

Lukvance your words are a disgrace to God. 

How do you know that the biblical authors were not being taught by them tricky demons?

Please prove to me that the bible wasn't inspired by Satan.  That your priest isn't inspired by Satan.  That you are not being taught by demons.

Jesus said you know by the fruit of the seeds you sow.  I sow ripe delicious fruit pleasant and gratifying.  Your fruit is rotten.  There ya go, case solved.

The seeds that religion has sown is not producing good fruits.  Unless you consider murder and prejudice good fruit.  So keep eating rotten fruit and you'll continue to disgrace God with your religious perception.

I have already proven that religion doesn't help discern anything.  It confuses the spirit and the mind.  History has proven it to be a violent and deadly thing.

Useless if God's purpose is for us to LOVE one another and work together to create a world with a whole lot less suffering.

Yes I'm convinced that Satan inspired Moses and Abraham.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2014, 12:22:43 AM »
How could a demon make me so darn good?
If you have read the bible you know he can. Just re read the passage where Jesus get tried by Satan, you might get a glimpse of how good he is.

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The bible says not to be religious.  To connect with God through spirit. 
No the Bible does not say that. It's the main reason why you lost this debate. Your memory is short.

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How do you know that the biblical authors were not being taught by them tricky demons?
Because of my religion. There is history in my religion and proof/fruits from followers. (Jesus said you know by the fruit of the seeds you sow.) The fruits along history are amazing. I could give you numbers of people testimony on how they received the said fruit and how delicious it was.
A lot!

Quote
I have already proven that religion doesn't help discern anything.
Haha. No. No proof what so ever.

Why do you hurt if someone hit you if God doesn't want you to hurt?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2014, 03:10:33 AM »
So that I know I am being attacked and can defend myself.  Yelp it's part of my God given body.  Amazing isn't it?   PS I've been hit harder by flies.

Jesus did not succumb to the devil.  Neither do I.  It does not exist. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha    haha

I wouldn't call all the people that religion has hurt delicious fruit.  Can you find anywhere in history that a spiritual not religious person has caused someone so much pain as religion did those women that burned at the stake?   How come religion did not help them discern between right and wrong.  Or the Catholic cover up of molested children,  the people that just recently died on 9/11.  All the people that has been stoned or beheaded in the name of Christ.  Religion never helped those people discern.  Honey that is some seriously rotten fruit.  Seriously like gag me with a spoon grotesque.  So history is covered in the rotten fruit of religion.  Point made.

I have already said if religion had this figured out there would only be 1.  So yes I have proved that religion discerns nothing.

Okay come now define love and prove demons/Satan exists.  Prove God exists.  I sure can't do it.  Until I know for sure I trust my spirit, that I believe God gave us,  to lead me to God.  I don't think mankind can build anything as wonderful as a spirit.

I gave you the verses where the God and Jesus both say to not be religious.  You just shrugged them off.   You don't care what the bible says no more than I do and I don't believe it at all.  The moral to the story is to NOT BE RELIGIOUS and LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

It's really that darn simple.

Don't forget to define love and prove your demons/Satan, God exist. 

You make it sound like God's been up there torturing me since the day I was born.  I'm not going to follow a God like that.  It can do as it must but I won't because my God given conscience won't let me.   




Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2014, 01:52:07 PM »
So that I know I am being attacked and can defend myself.  Yelp it's part of my God given body.  Amazing isn't it?   PS I've been hit harder by flies.
Oh then if you get punched in an armor (you wouldn't feel anything) you wouldn't know that you are being attacked? What kind of logic is that?
You can give me a better reason. Ask your god for answers.
Why do you hurt if someone hit you if God doesn't want you to hurt?

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I wouldn't call all the people that religion has hurt delicious fruit.  Can you find anywhere in history that a spiritual not religious person has caused someone so much pain as religion did those women that burned at the stake?   How come religion did not help them discern between right and wrong.  Or the Catholic cover up of molested children,  the people that just recently died on 9/11.  All the people that has been stoned or beheaded in the name of Christ.  Religion never helped those people discern.  Honey that is some seriously rotten fruit.  Seriously like gag me with a spoon grotesque.  So history is covered in the rotten fruit of religion.  Point made.
  To make your point you must back it up with facts and statistics. Find me statistics showing that religion gives LESS than it receives and we might have something to start.
Read about the people at the burning stake, you might find some interesting facts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_burning[/nb]][1] like most of them wasn't done by the church! Also look at the statistics on molested children around you (not just the church) you might find it more repulsive to live where you live than in a monastery.

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  I have already said if religion had this figured out there would only be 1.  So yes I have proved that religion discerns nothing.
  Are there only 1 school? Do you think that all schools should shut down because they didn't have this "figured out"?

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I gave you the verses where the God and Jesus both say to not be religious.
  No you didn't. You gave me verses addressed to other people than me.
 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_burning
You're worth more than my time

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2014, 10:18:17 PM »
Pain is a defensive mechanism.  So is hearing and smell.  You did not say I was wearing armor.  I believe God's will is for me to know if I have an infection or that I am being attacked.  Infection I fight, attacked I run or hide.  Call the police and press charges on you for assault on a female.

I have given you several historical FACTS.  Your link was a blank page. ;) 

I gave you statistics, you gave me statistics.  Neither can be proven to be accurate.  A lot of people LIE about being Christian.  Not everybody was poled.  I wasn't poled.  Nobody I know was. 

I know my neighbors they are family.  I live in the mountains in a community that has known each other for years.  Ain't no funny business around here. 

It's worse when a priest does these things because of the trust a child has In God.  It not only physically hurts that precious little one it spiritually does.  In a way your cruel heart I'm sure can not, will not understand.  You said yourself you did not want a blank in your blank.  You really think a small child does.  What would you do if a man forced his self on you Lukvance?  Would you go to mass with him?  Obviously priest molesting children is no big deal to you.  My neighbors are not claiming to be servants of God and taking advantage of their contact with children to fulfill their sick and twisted minds.  Unless it's the church 100 yards down the road.

Buddy God don't want us to punch each other.   God does not want you to punch me so no it is not God's will that I feel pain from your punch.  God's purpose for pain is to know when something is wrong with my body not for you to extort it for your own personal vengeance.  Somebody says vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.   So me feeling pain from your punch is the opposite of God's will or is vengeance not God's?

I'll give you credit for one thing.  At least you just come right and show how cruel you think God is, even though you denied your god was cruel in the beginning it seems you misled me.  Has God been mean to you Lukvance?  What pain does God cause you?

You can't even define love so you don't even know if "god so loved the world".  I'm sorry but I will not take the word of a man that can not define love on matters of God.

You can not, have not, even tried to prove that demons even exist to trick me into believing this way. 


I believe God loves you Lukvance why do you believe God hates me from the time I was 6-7 years old, WHY?  How is that Good news. 

Good news ms junebug you've been tricked by demons, god wants you to suffer horrifically.  Oh yea that's good news.

Please tell me where Jesus asked you to spread this gloom and doom.  If your story is true I want to use my freewill to not have been created.  I don't want to be here anymore if your god is real and not just a matter of bad religious perception which is what I believe God gave me the wisdom to understand when I prayed for comfort.  Can demons answer prayers?

Jesus said a rich man can not enter the Kingdom of God.  The Vatican is so rich they own their own state or is it country?  Either way the Vatican is extremely rich and use that money for rich garments and fancy cathedrals while the poor do w/o.  I would rule Catholicism out just for that if I was discerning.  I would go to the poorest church I could find that still manged to give to the poor and spread good news.  Ever notice how the nicest richest churches are in rich neighborhoods with rich members.  If the Catholics were teaching true doctrine they would teach the rich to not be rich.  They are teaching people how not to get into heaven.  I mean easier to thread a needle with a camel is pretty cut and dry.  You can not do it.  Oh yea then go check out the hoods and low income areas.  Look at their cathedrals. 

So anybody that has more than they need which is 3/4 of the population are not real Christian they just claim to be.

Lukvance how could you forget my famous link to, "God hates Religion"?  I did provide the scripture that says you should not be religious.  Don't get mad at me I didn't write it. 

Man you need some help.  You are all over the place with your beliefs.  You don't even know what they are.  It's not a good example of how religion is the path to God.  You are very confused.

I know what my beliefs are because I have a better teacher.   It was either me or God.  I'm absolutely positive demons can not answer prayers for God or to God.

I think this is my longest post ever. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #75 on: June 24, 2014, 08:18:16 PM »
Haha it is indeed.
The God taught you by Catholicism will not allow you to even be punched. He is so powerful that hungry lions will lose the appetite in front of a strong believer.
I have not be hurt by God in any way, catholic God never inflict pain.
You said that your god cannot protect you (he makes you feel pain to alert you that something is wrong with your body) and that is true. Catholic God can.
I know it is hard for you to look outside your little cabin in the woods and your next door neighbors and I understand that you suffered because of men and their bad teachings.
I hope one day you will go travel around the world and maybe realize how true your faith is and how it is not unrelated to religion. (Just some little quirks here and there)
You're worth more than my time

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #76 on: June 25, 2014, 04:40:59 AM »
Then why didn't catholic god protect those little boys from those priests?  Nobody believes as strong as a child does.  I am absolutely 100% positive that it hurt those precious little boys to be used by a full grown man.

That would have been a good time to set the lions loose. 

Your reasoning is strange.  Catholics have it just as hard as everybody else!!!  Catholics die, catholics feel pain and according to Jesus Catholics can't get into heaven.

I tell ya Lukvance you need to understand Love to understand God.  Please define Love before you say another word.

Spirituality and religion are nothing a like.  NOTHING!
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #77 on: June 25, 2014, 07:50:42 PM »
Love is giving your son in sacrifice for others.
God sacrificed His only Son so that we, who put our faith in His Son, will not spend eternity separated from Him. This is an amazing love, because we are the ones who choose to reject God, yet it's God who mends the separation through His intense personal sacrifice, and all we have to do is accept His gift.
You're worth more than my time

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #78 on: June 26, 2014, 07:03:56 AM »
Love is giving your son in sacrifice for others.
God sacrificed His only Son so that we, who put our faith in His Son, will not spend eternity separated from Him. This is an amazing love, because we are the ones who choose to reject God, yet it's God who mends the separation through His intense personal sacrifice, and all we have to do is accept His gift.

Was it the son or was it God in the form of man?  Either way that was no sacrifice.  He was only dead 2 days. ;)  Went to sit at the right hand of God.  Giving up life can only be done by a mortal.  If God really LOVED the Son It would have sacrificed itself not it's son. 

What part of God made us this way don't you understand?  Would you give a child a lollipop then punish them for enjoying it?  That would be fucked up as hell.  Then have another child just so you can sacrifice it for the one that eat the lollipop, even more fucked up.  That father has no balls and is cruel to his children.

That act does not define love.  Please define Love.

Jesus showed Love when he said; 'let the man w/o sin throw the first stone'.   

Jesus showed Love when he told the thief beside him that he would see him in paradise, a thief. 

Jesus showed Love when he said; 'father forgive them, they KNOW NOT what they do.'

The Crucifixion is an act of the Greatest Love of all if................Jesus was mortal not immortal and only if he stayed dead. 

That's the story if you take the "religion" out of it.

Let me tell you why I made bold that term;  that is not all you have to do.  You have to love one another as he loved us.  You have to be willing to die for each other.  Do not judge each other.  Do not be greedy and selfish.  Help the poor, disabled and elderly.  Not just with the bare necessities either. 

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #79 on: June 26, 2014, 12:05:53 PM »
Can you "love one another as he loved us", "be willing to die for each other", "not judge each other", "not be greedy and selfish", "Help the poor, disabled and elderly" without accepting God's gift?
If so, where do you get this source of love?
I defined love. You don't like it, live with it. I don't have to define it exactly the way you want.
You're worth more than my time

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #80 on: June 27, 2014, 06:13:27 AM »
Can you "love one another as he loved us", "be willing to die for each other", "not judge each other", "not be greedy and selfish", "Help the poor, disabled and elderly" without accepting God's gift?
If so, where do you get this source of love?
I defined love. You don't like it, live with it. I don't have to define it exactly the way you want.

Honey you did not define Love.

God's gift is life.  You have no choice  but to accept it.  What you do with it is on YOU and GOD.

That last remark is hateful.  You don't know how to love.  Very sad.   :'( :'( :'(

I think it's important to define what IT is not what IT ain't.

What I am supposed to think about a Catholic that can not define LOVE? 

I have exposed your religious weakness.  Don't get mad about it.  That's what I'm here for. ;)  To teach you about LOVE. :-*
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #81 on: June 27, 2014, 08:09:00 PM »
I understand that in your part of the wood people "prove" things by simply disagreeing with others. Be in the rest of the world it is not how it works. But that is ok, I accept you the way you are, with all your kinks and mistakes. I understand that it is not willingly that you stay enclosed in your house and don't ever go "outside".
You're worth more than my time

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #82 on: June 28, 2014, 06:20:26 AM »
Prove everything you just said.  It is insulting.   I forgive you because you "KNOW" not what you do or say.  You have bad teachers.  They are the ones I hold accountable for your lack of understanding.  My wish for you is to become as close to Love as I have. 

Love is the key to the afterlife, not religion.  Even the bible tells you so.  Please just remember that as you take your religious stroll.  It does not please God.  The bible tells you that too. ;)



 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #83 on: June 28, 2014, 03:12:53 PM »
I can prove what I'm saying with the simple fact that you are unable to support anything you claim.
You claim that the bible is false but use it to prove your point about the religion. (even if it finally doesn't prove anything)
You claim that you found God and that he is different from Christian God but no one else seems to agree with you.
You don't have ANYTHING that can prove to us that it is not the Devil who is whispering in your ears like he did to Jesus in the desert.
You think that the devil doesn't exist and that is exactly the first thing he will try to convince people when he wants to manipulate them.
You do not want to look at the facts that are contradicting your beliefs because you are not used to be wrong in your neighborhood.
You're worth more than my time

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #84 on: June 28, 2014, 11:15:52 PM »
I can define love. 

That's funny.

Now you every body in the world Luk?  Lots os people agree with me.

I don't change my beliefs to win arguments. 

I don't have to prove it was not the devil.  You have to prove it was.  It is YOUR claim not mine.  It is a claim that describes a CRUEL, PETTY and ABUSIVE god that does not deserve the waste I flush down the toilet.   It's insulting.  The cries of a desperate man.  I very well did whoop that accusation's a$$. 8)

What facts?  You haven't provided any facts against being spiritual not religious.  You haven't even provided any scripture against it. 

There is no scripture that says be religious not spiritual.  Go ahead ask your priest.  Ask any bible scholar you wish.  Ask your mom, Dad whoever.  It's not in there.  There are many that say be spiritual not religious.  I have given them all to you.

Why shouldn't I use the bible?  It is Christianity we are talking about. 

Honey I have proven it has taught you nothing about LOVE.  There's nothing else to prove. :) 8)  If God is Love, Christians say it is, and you know not what Love is you do not know God, according to your religion.  Really religion is not your excuse.  You are just a cruel man.  You chose to be this way.  You are responsible for your perception of God and it is cruel and ugly, disgraceful to any "real" God.

I know Catholics that are spiritual not religious.  They are good folk.  Don't really know why they say they are Catholic because they never go to Mass or anything but good people.

Please quote me saying I found God.  Please. 

I bet you come from a long line of Catholics?  Probably don't want to disrespect your Mother no doubt.  So you keep the tradition.  Whether it is right or wrong is of little or no importance to you.





Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2014, 11:45:13 AM »
What facts?  You haven't provided any facts against being spiritual not religious.  You haven't even provided any scripture against it. 
There is no scripture that says be religious not spiritual.  Go ahead ask your priest.  Ask any bible scholar you wish.  Ask your mom, Dad whoever.  It's not in there.  There are many that say be spiritual not religious.  I have given them all to you.
What did Jesus ask from his disciples and 70 people that he chose? (hint : read Luke 9 and 10)
You're worth more than my time

Offline junebug72

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Re: Lukvance and junebug72 debate whether Catholicism will destroy god
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2014, 05:41:08 AM »
Quote
Luke 9:20-21 He said unto them; "But who say ye that I am"  and Peter said you are the Christ of God.

21. and he [strictly] charged them to tell no man that thing.
Hum, interesting.  Peter and Paul did it anyway and so did the author.  Off with their heads.  cough  Forgiveness and mercy.  That's the way of Jesus.  You my dear are NOT being merciful. 

Quote
Luke 9:1-6

Jesus Sends Out the Twelve

When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,

2 and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

3 He told them: “Take nothing for the journey—no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra shirt.

4 Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that town.

5 If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.”

6 So they set out and went from village to village, proclaiming the good news and healing people everywhere.

Doesn't sound like Christianity/Catholicism to me.  Where's the Good News?  Where's the healing?  Religion can't even heal my broken heart.  You can't heal my broken heart.  In fact religion breaks it more. 

Preachers/priest take money for their service.  They have plenty suits and robes and bread.

Quote
Luke 9:62

62 Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”
I bet you haven't even offered to say goodbye to your family.

Quote
Luke 10:1-3

After this the Lord appointed seventy-two[a] others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go.

2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.

3 Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves.

Nope still don't sound like Christianity.  Christians are the wolves now; thanks to religion. ;)

Quote
Luke 10:4

4 Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.
Nope does NOT sound like Mass/Church still. 

Here's my favorite for those who go door to door...Luke 10:7

Quote
7 Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.

House to house is where people live.  Jesus is not talking about going from church to church.  He's talking about going from one person's
home to the next.  Only accepting room and board for your effort.  Churches did not exist yet.  Jesus had no place to lay his head.

The point is to FOLLOW.  Priests and preachers do not follow they LEAD. 









« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 05:43:09 AM by junebug72 »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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