Author Topic: jesus loves you?  (Read 474 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline eh!

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
  • Darwins +40/-30
  • Gender: Male
  • jimmy hendrix is jesus
jesus loves you?
« on: May 16, 2014, 07:06:32 AM »
Jesus loved the millions of people that lived before he was born everyone that existed while he was alive even tho he only met just guessing he had no phone, radio, internet, car, plane, he had a boat and could walk on water so he might have met at most 33 years assuming he could speak at birth say 10 people an hour for 10 hours a day. so max 500 000 people he loved in his own life + the how many billion since he got dead at an exponential human growth billions more by the time of the next smiting.


love is generally considered a deeply personal and special and intimate thing.


is it reasonable jesus really, i mean really loves many billions of people???

Fark he MUST. be gods son or he doesn't really love everyone..... or the whole story is.... bullshit.
Signature goes here...

Offline GoatMan

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Darwins +1/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 10:36:36 AM »
In John 4, when Jesus  encounters the "woman at the well", he already knows her quite well. Maybe he knows you and me well too even though, like the woman at the well, we haven't met him face to face?

Offline OldChurchGuy

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1489
  • Darwins +98/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • One of those theists who enjoys exchanging ideas
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2014, 06:57:33 AM »
In John 4, when Jesus  encounters the "woman at the well", he already knows her quite well. Maybe he knows you and me well too even though, like the woman at the well, we haven't met him face to face?

Welcome to this website GoatMan.  I hope you enjoy yourself and the topics of conversation. 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline eh!

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
  • Darwins +40/-30
  • Gender: Male
  • jimmy hendrix is jesus
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2014, 09:55:56 PM »
OCG di you have a response to the topic?

Goat guy do you think scripture like you quoted is literally true?
Signature goes here...

Offline OldChurchGuy

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1489
  • Darwins +98/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • One of those theists who enjoys exchanging ideas
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2014, 12:37:06 AM »
OCG di you have a response to the topic?

Goat guy do you think scripture like you quoted is literally true?

I have no problem with Jesus loving everyone.  I freely admit that is a statement of faith with no scientific data to back it up. 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline eh!

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
  • Darwins +40/-30
  • Gender: Male
  • jimmy hendrix is jesus
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2014, 12:42:43 AM »
You don't think it's a stretch? you married, think how you love your wife or child, jesus feels that and more for the majority of people he never even met while alive, before or after.  you don't think he was bullshitting folks telling them he really really loved them all ....seems weird.
Signature goes here...

Offline GoatMan

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Darwins +1/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2014, 01:03:53 AM »
Eh!, I think that the passage I quoted is literally true and that, in general, passages should be interpreted literally unless there is a clear figurative nature (such as poetry or parables). Otherwise it would be impossible to know anything from scripture; if the Bible says Jonah was in the belly of a fish for 3 days and, if I suggest that this is figurative, what keeps someone from claiming the story of Jesus telling people to love their enemies is just figurative too? "It's not common for a man to live in the belly of a fish, so it can't be true, just a fable. " In the same way then you could say "it's not common for someone to actually love their enemy, so we can't truly be expected to do that, it's just a nice thought." Jesus himself believed about Jonah. But if he is wrong there, maybe he's wrong about all the love and peace and generosity too. Maybe we should just live however we see fit. But, no. We see the truth in the way of life Jesus proclaimed. So why can't we see the truth in the details of what happened in his life (miracles and the revelation of a God who is behind all of this)?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 01:05:25 AM by GoatMan »

Offline eh!

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
  • Darwins +40/-30
  • Gender: Male
  • jimmy hendrix is jesus
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2014, 01:13:15 AM »
What about the bits that condone slavery and that it is ok to kill a naughty child and genocide and murder all of that is true and the many clear contradictions and things we know that clearly are not true like rabbits having a cud and Pi a whole number.

there are pages i could fill but most theists ime are not worth the effort cos they ignore everthing they don't want too hear.  no offense
Signature goes here...

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2700
  • Darwins +218/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I can haz jeezusburger™
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2014, 01:15:18 AM »
clear figurative nature (such as poetry or parables). Otherwise it would be impossible to know anything from scripture;

Good; like tares and throwing seeds on rocks.

However, I have problems with Luke 16 and the parable of Lazarus.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline GoatMan

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Darwins +1/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2014, 01:20:27 AM »
Add Hom.: Please elaborate on your problem with the parable of Lazarus

Offline Ron Jeremy

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
  • Darwins +59/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2014, 01:32:48 AM »
Eh!, I think that the passage I quoted is literally true and that, in general, passages should be interpreted literally unless there is a clear figurative nature (such as poetry or parables). Otherwise it would be impossible to know anything from scripture; if the Bible says Jonah was in the belly of a fish for 3 days and, if I suggest that this is figurative, what keeps someone from claiming the story of Jesus telling people to love their enemies is just figurative too? "It's not common for a man to live in the belly of a fish, so it can't be true, just a fable. " In the same way then you could say "it's not common for someone to actually love their enemy, so we can't truly be expected to do that, it's just a nice thought." Jesus himself believed about Jonah. But if he is wrong there, maybe he's wrong about all the love and peace and generosity too. Maybe we should just live however we see fit. But, no. We see the truth in the way of life Jesus proclaimed. So why can't we see the truth in the details of what happened in his life (miracles and the revelation of a God who is behind all of this)?

Welcome Goatman, it's good to see another Christian on the forum and great that you've decided to engage with a forum that doesn't ban people for asking the 'wrong' questions! ;)

"passages should be interpreted literally unless there is a clear figurative nature".
Hmmm. My father-in-law believes that the Tower of babel was a real event and that's why people speak different languages. My Christian friend says this is nonsense, it's quite clearly figurative.
My father-in-law believes that Genesis and the Garden of Eden literally happened. My Christian friend says this is quite clearly figurative, the mountain of evidence for old Earth tells her this.
My father-in-law believes that a man coming back from the dead actually happened. I say it's quite clearly figurative.

None of us atheists here have a magic decoder ring or book that tells us what is literal and what is figurative in the Bible, it seems these items are only owned by Christians. But here's the rub; each decoder is different! Each Christian has a different magic decoder ring that tells them what parts of the Bible are literal and what parts metaphorical!

So may I ask you Goatman; which of the above are literal and why?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline eh!

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
  • Darwins +40/-30
  • Gender: Male
  • jimmy hendrix is jesus
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2014, 01:38:10 AM »
Didn't he just answer that?
Signature goes here...

Offline Ron Jeremy

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
  • Darwins +59/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2014, 01:49:18 AM »
Didn't he just answer that?

No. He replied '"passages should be interpreted literally unless there is a clear figurative nature". I gave examples.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline Astreja

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2972
  • Darwins +256/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • Agnostic goddess with Clue-by-Four™
    • The Springy Goddess
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2014, 02:03:52 AM »
Eh!, I think that the passage I quoted is literally true and that, in general, passages should be interpreted literally unless there is a clear figurative nature (such as poetry or parables).

Is a Talking Snake™ real or allegorical?  If real, do you know where I can get one of My own?
Reality Checkroom — Not Responsible for Lost Articles

Offline GoatMan

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Darwins +1/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2014, 02:04:11 AM »
Eh!: I bet you've heard this before but Jesus fulfills the Law (where there are rules that allow slavery and capital punishment, etc). The point is that the Law was meant to highlight our need for Jesus, not be the final say on the best way to live. This is clear from passages in New Testament such as the first half or so of Romans. So of course we read passages like those literally (and real people really did their best to follow those laws), but we have more context now since Jesus has revealed more to us, and so we don't follow the Law anymore (and don't need to since it's been fulfilled, you can read in Acts where the apostles chose to keep practicing very few of those laws still, such as the laws concerning sexual morality, but decided the rest were a hinderance to following the newly proclaimed way of faith in Jesus).

Pi = 3 is not a terribly untrue statement at all and the most recent understanding of pi is still not complete. Perhaps this is a good analogy for asking God for things. If you asked God what pi is and He says 3 and you say I want more, I want to know it all maybe He would respond that you couldn't possibly know it, that it would take eternity (or even just a few days) to tell you and you would be very bored by the end (or at least you would have missed out on other things like a few days spent with loved ones). So in the same way you say heal this amputee and God says ok I will and He gives them a doctor to provide prosthetics or maybe just peace in being maimed and you say no I need more and He says you don't know what your asking for this is truly the better way for everyone involved and having it your way would be worse.

The first sin was eating of the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil. Maybe the worst thing for us that God was protecting us from was us deciding what is right and wrong instead of just trusting God. We try to find the end of pi because we think that's good and miss out on the fact that what we need isn't more knowledge or power but just love (God gave Eve to Adam and put them in a garden, for instance, and then they had all they needed). Maybe an amputee doesn't need a new limb but already has all he/she needs as long as they trust in God to give them love because He will (and not only them but everyone else and maybe their loss of limb is a crucial part in God showing love to many others in addition to them).

We like to understand and have proof but, really, isn't out world (and the lives of all the people) way too complex to analyze and know what's really good for all of us?

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2700
  • Darwins +218/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I can haz jeezusburger™
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2014, 02:10:24 AM »
Eh!: I bet you've heard this before but Jesus fulfills the Law (where there are rules that allow slavery and capital punishment, etc). The point is that the Law was meant to highlight our need for Jesus,

Yes, this is to resolve Paul's religion, against the opposing statements in Matthew, who was not from Paul's sect.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Ron Jeremy

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
  • Darwins +59/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2014, 02:15:18 AM »

The first sin was eating of the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil.

Are you a 6000 year old Earth creationist Goatman?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10842
  • Darwins +279/-37
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2014, 02:16:34 AM »
Look, we all know Jesus loves everyone... Except:
Homosexuals
Foreigners
Rich people
Women who are menstruating
Oh, and:
Atheists
Any kind of theists who do not follow him
Slaves
Selfish people
People who wear mixed fabric

But that's it, I swear!... No, wait, hang on...
Look, just check out this site: http://www.evilbible.com
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline eh!

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
  • Darwins +40/-30
  • Gender: Male
  • jimmy hendrix is jesus
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2014, 02:17:00 AM »
Will read yr whole post later but if gods word is infallible and inerant then Pi should equal Pi and not 3. People before ot had better values than god.

i love mathematics and spend my life loving and trying to understand it do god should have done a better job according to what you said.
Signature goes here...

Offline Astreja

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2972
  • Darwins +256/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • Agnostic goddess with Clue-by-Four™
    • The Springy Goddess
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2014, 02:18:13 AM »
We like to understand and have proof but, really, isn't our world (and the lives of all the people) way too complex to analyze and know what's really good for all of us?

That's an alarming all-or nothing perspective, GoatMan.  I don't see anything wrong with seeking knowledge, especially if that quest allows us to do things like design prosthetic devices for amputees.

We don't need to get pi to 1 billion decimal places, but when working on projects that involve circles, extra digits do provide a better-quality result.  (Example:  Estimating the amount of flagstones required for a circular patio.  Rounding down from 3.14 to 3.0 will result in an underestimation of about 4.5%.)

There's also an element of infantilization at play here.  Ideally, wouldn't a parent want the children to mature at least to the same level, so that they themselves could judge "what's really good for all of us," rather than withholding information and making decisions for  them?
Reality Checkroom — Not Responsible for Lost Articles

Offline GoatMan

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Darwins +1/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2014, 02:25:37 AM »
R Jeremy: to simplify I would say that unless a passage is stated to be something like a parable or poem (ie "And the Jesus told this parable" or the Song of Solomon being titled a "song" which would obviously suggest a poetic nature) then it should be literal. Six days of creation, Tower of Babel, Jesus' resurrection, etc etc, all literal. Maybe add if there is an obvious allusion (like in Ezekiel 28 it alludes to the King Tyre being in the Garden of Eden, which according to Genesis he wasn't so this alludes to Satan who was), consider a figurative reading.

Of course, many Christians and others will disagree and that's ok (and the Bible says it's ok, Paul disagreed with folks on eating meat sacrificed to idols and said that getting along was more important that arguing when it came to less important/harder to understand teachings).

Now, to say that something is literal doesn't mean there isn't also figurative meaning (six days of creation and one of rest sets a model for our week) or prophetic meaning (there was a real prince of Tyre who was defeated but the incident foreshadows Satan's eventual demise).

Is it bad for Bible to be hard to understand? God has provided teachers for me who make learning hard material possible. Still, I don't claim understand everthing. Is this bad too? It hasn't snuffed out my relationship with God.


Offline eh!

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
  • Darwins +40/-30
  • Gender: Male
  • jimmy hendrix is jesus
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2014, 02:29:26 AM »
Is it bad some would like it to make plausible sense.
Signature goes here...

Offline Ron Jeremy

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
  • Darwins +59/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2014, 02:50:39 AM »

Is it bad for Bible to be hard to understand?

You'll have heard of the hate group The Westboro Baptist church? Or burnings of women thought to be witches? Or slavery? When a guide to life and the afterlife is so contradictory and loose that it can be interpreted to mean anything the reader wants; what's the point of it?!

So 'yes'; it is bad for the bible to be hard to understand when the average poster on here could rewrite it to be a lot clearer.

Talking of witches and literal bible interpretations; do you believe witches should be killed?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline Ron Jeremy

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
  • Darwins +59/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2014, 03:12:17 AM »
Matthew 5:17-20 is a perfect example of Christians twisting the bible's words to suit their own end ('we don't want to follow the Old Testament laws, we don't like them') and an example of how the Bible is not written clearly;

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Consider Ron Jeremy 5:17-20
17 And Jesus said 'Now that I am here, the laws of the Old Testament must not be followed, except the words that God spake, which are i) Thou shalt have no other gods before me....etc

...or...

Ron Jeremy 5:17-20
17 And Jesus said 'Even though I am here, the laws of the Old Testament must still be followed, all the Old Testament laws still apply...

Now, if you can think of one example of text from the bible that has different interpretations from different sects of Christians, that you think cannot be made clearer; please post it here.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline eh!

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
  • Darwins +40/-30
  • Gender: Male
  • jimmy hendrix is jesus
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2014, 03:16:40 AM »
Does it matter we have systematic evidence based rational natural non superstition decision making processes the results of which can impact millions of people when we could just consult the bible to get the answer.


you would give up all your toys gadgets modern medicine and just be happy with god did it.


all of the above is there for you cos someone looked for explanations more than god did it.
Signature goes here...

Offline GoatMan

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Darwins +1/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2014, 09:24:38 PM »
RJ:  I find the young earth interpretation of Genesis to be the best reading of Genesis (because I assume it to be so literal), although I admit there are many people who think that Genesis can be interpreted more figuratively and have good reasons for this.  Maybe I doubt modern science more than most.  Now, just because someone interprets Genesis more figuratively, they would STILL probably agree on the following conclusions that are crucial to mainstream Christianity:  God created everything, all humans sin and sin messes up the perfect intentions God had for creation, God still chooses to interact with people and promises restoration.  The rest really is full of details that have less impact on our current state and future destiny.

The Bible actually does a lot to address false teaching based on the Bible.  Jesus told us there would be false teachers.  I would say Westboro Baptist's teachings are false.  The Bible says to test a teacher by their “fruit,” and WBC bears the fruit of division and not love.  Just because an idea can be or is misused does not make it false.  Eugenics is an offshoot of Darwinism.  The way you feel about Eugenics (if you are a Darwinist) is probably similar to the way I feel about WBC.  Does eugenics disqualify darwinism?  BTW, Darwinism is hard to understand.  Does that mean it should be dismissed?  No, if it is dismissed it should be dismissed based on other reasons, not because it is hard to understand.

I already shared my belief about OT laws, and it's not something I've made up on my own, it's in the Bible too.  OT laws such as capital punishment for witchcraft were not observed by the apostles in Acts.  They observed, primarily, forgiveness of sin and spiritual growth through grace by faith in Jesus, accompanied by the sacraments of baptism and communion, abstinence from sexual immorality, and service to one another and those in need (poor, orphans, widows, etc).  (I've probably left out a few points of instruction here and there, but you hopefully get the idea:  OT Law is something that has been FULFILLED and need not be followed, so long as someone trusts in Christ.  When Jesus died on the cross He took on all the death necessary for any witches, just as he took the death I deserved.  He also completed every other requirement of the Law. [In fact, it's astounding how the details of Jesus' life match OT themes like the yearly feasts, the ritual sacrifices, and ideas about the tabernacle/temple. For instance, the picture of the empty tomb with the angel matches a picture of the Holy of Holies where the Ark of the Covenant was, which contained manna, Aaron's rod, and the tablets of the 10 commandments, and, of course, Jesus is seen as the Bread of Life, the Good Shepherd and High Priest, and the perfect fulfillment of the Law.] Now, because of the work of Christ, NT commandments are what should be followed.  It's outlined well in the Bible.).  The apostles clearly say so much and teach all later Christians to do the same as they did.

Finally, I don't think any one person could come close to writing anything like the Bible.  Remember, the Bible is actually 66 books, inspired by God and written by numerous different authors from varying  periods of history and cultures, written to different audiences for different reasons.  And yet it holds an incredibly tight narrative and keeps consistent underlying themes (chiefly, the exaltation of Jesus).  It has historic facts (that are confirmed by archeology), beautiful poetry, fulfilled prophesies (as well as prophesies to come), and, perhaps most importantly, it strikes a very relevant and accurate chord with the human condition.  Of course one person could not write a book like that.  Even a score of authors working together couldn't, at least not after thousands of years of collaboration.

Astreja:  I think I could refine my statement and say that, yes, we can know what is good, but not on our own and not without God and the Bible, and not necessarily completely while in these bodies.  The Bible says we need to continually have our minds renewed to understand God's good will, and other times it urges us just to trust God when we can't understand.  But we need God for all of this.  I've never heard the word infantilization before, but yes, in a way, at least compared to God, we are as helpless and ignorant as infants who need told what is best for us and so much more.  The Bible does promise that we will know more fully after we leave these bodies, so maybe God will let us “grow up”, just not yet, and even then I still think God will clearly win out as supreme in what He understands of good vs evil.  If this bad in any way I don't see how (which is ironic since I am claiming that humans like you and me shouldn't try to decide on our own what is good/evil).  For instance, if I was a soldier and I saw horrific evil in war, would I wish my child to know the same about evil that I do?  No.

Eh!:  I think you present a false dichotomy.  Just because I am skeptical of many scientist's conclusions about non-scientific fields such as history (ie, of the earth and origin of life) and philosophy (what is the best way to determine truth?) does not mean that I could never use the scientific method to help contribute to new technology.  I am actually an ok problem-solver and contributor within the industries that I have been employed.  But, for the sake of argument, if there was a dichotomy between knowing God (and gaining eternal life) and using any technological advancement, I would choose the former.  Technology SOMETIMES betters my current situation (while other times it worsens it, see:  smartphone addiction) while knowing God is, in fact, the ultimate goal of why I was created (and promises so much more come eternity).

Offline eh!

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
  • Darwins +40/-30
  • Gender: Male
  • jimmy hendrix is jesus
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2014, 09:28:39 PM »
Things just like the bible including bible stories were already written before the bible.

what don't you trust about science??
Signature goes here...

Offline eh!

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1260
  • Darwins +40/-30
  • Gender: Male
  • jimmy hendrix is jesus
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2014, 09:31:52 PM »
BTW i like the promise, it is perfect in a bad way..... nobody knows until....... after they are dead.


that is so genius only satan could make such a promise to gain control.
Signature goes here...

Offline GoatMan

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Darwins +1/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: jesus loves you?
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2014, 10:48:49 PM »
Actually, I would have to say the promise that there is no afterlife is more geniously controlling. That promise, if false, controls the rest of eternity in exchange for an earthly life of "freedom." A promise of an afterlife, if false, controls only a pain and bore filled earthly life. I think Satan would choose to tell the first of those two promises and steal eternity. (This, I know, is an argument much like Pascals waiger).

In fact, a good reason to hope for an afterlife is the yearning for so much more that goes unfulfilled in this life. Even the best human lives end in death and, I would suppose, are filled with considerable disappointment and nostalgia and diminished passions and the inability to truly connect with loved ones as much as is truly desired. Yet we long for connection and purpose and eternity like we were made for these. The Bible does a great job of casting this very relevant and relatable picture of the futility of life on earth. Maybe only a Book that knows what really is to be could show us how far we are currently fallimg short of the way it should be?

One thing I distrust of science is how little it truly promises. How much better is living in comfort to the age of 120 compared to living until 40 (or whatever was common just centuries ago) and actually experiencing the struggle for daily survival? How awesome will
It be to not be totally dominated by machines or to colonize the gray, cold moon! Is this the goal of science? If not, what is?

More quantitatively, i distrust assumptions that are taken for granted (speed of light is a constant, dark matter/energy must exist) and long streams of nevertheless circular logic (if Darwinism  is true there needs to be LOTS of time so let's invent uniformitarianism that says only small gradual changes can happen in geology and prove that the earth is old: to get a Grand Canyon we would need millions of years and that's lots of time! But you only proved what you assumed).

Eh!, when you claim that the Bible is not even plausible, what worldview do you propose is plausible? I argue, in defense of the Bible, that it is quite logically consistent, especially when approached without initial assumptions. But, if it isn't plausible, what is?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 10:54:13 PM by GoatMan »