Author Topic: thank you's  (Read 372 times)

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thank you's
« on: May 09, 2014, 09:18:40 PM »
All contributors on this site and others like it. never underestimate how much it means to people that have been tormented by fundamentalists and anti-reason peeps that would have us back in the dark age theocracies with their slavery, torture, fear rule, murder, rape and genocide.


i absolutely believe it could all happen again.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: thank you's
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2014, 09:26:19 PM »
You're most welcome.

By the way, slavery, torture, fear rule, murder and rape occur in every modern society to varying degrees of frequency and severity. You don't live in any utopian paradise. Most people in the world have extremely difficult lives.
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Re: thank you's
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2014, 09:33:18 PM »
Nobody has done it to the scale, severity, duration and wholesale brutality and claimed they were right in doing so as have our wonderful theists.


yes crimes have occurred but none so consistently fuct as those done in the name of religion.
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Re: thank you's
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2014, 11:44:21 PM »
^^^Can you back that up with some sources, eh? I certainly won't argue that religious ideology doesn't lend itself to horrible abuse, but such sweeping statements should have some substance that can be verified.

Serious question: have you yourself been persecuted for your atheism?
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Re: thank you's
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2014, 12:26:26 AM »
You lack the most basic and general knowledge . i will leave it to you to find evidence of such abuses. it will be the simplest search you have ever done ....i would not call my experiences persecution, that word is worn out by xtians. torment, abuse, marginalized, discriminated against yes.  moved me from neutral to passive non believer to atheist to anti-theist. why di you ask.
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Online wright

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Re: thank you's
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2014, 01:18:17 AM »
You lack the most basic and general knowledge . i will leave it to you to find evidence of such abuses. it will be the simplest search you have ever done


I'm well aware of the abuses of religion, as I said. You made this statement:
Nobody has done it to the scale, severity, duration and wholesale brutality and claimed they were right in doing so as have our wonderful theists.


yes crimes have occurred but none so consistently fuct as those done in the name of religion.

I'm asking you to back that sweeping statement up. I don't doubt that it can be done, but it's one of the standards on this forum that we try to be consistent about.

Quote
....i would not call my experiences persecution, that word is worn out by xtians. torment, abuse, marginalized, discriminated against yes.  moved me from neutral to passive non believer to atheist to anti-theist. why di you ask.

Just wondering. You seemed very passionate about the topic; I wondered if you had some experience like this poor guy:
http://www.cracked.com/article_21125_6-realities-life-as-atheist-in-fundamentalist-regime.html
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 01:34:54 AM by wright »
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Re: thank you's
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2014, 05:17:23 AM »
Proof er off the top of ass;


911
The crusades
hitler yes hitler
the inquisitions
God drowning the world and other ot genocides
a south african friend was taught apartheid murderous regime was basically justified by the bible
the destruction of about every indigenous culture on the planet
the witch burnings
the taliban antics
that guy who just kidnapped all those school girls in nigeria
some country can't remember but they were catholic sentenced another country to death for not being xtian
england/ireland

get the idea. i will let you verify 911 and such if you think i am making it all up.

anyhoo that's straight from my ass. i can actually do some formal research if you are still in doubt.
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Offline Jag

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Re: thank you's
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2014, 09:43:03 AM »
No one is claiming you're mistaken, you're just being asked to provide sources for your assertions. Just because you are coming down on the side of atheism doesn't mean you are not expected to hold to the same standard as a theist. The rules of the forum apply to all of us.

Nobody has done it to the scale, severity, duration and wholesale brutality and claimed they were right in doing so as have our wonderful theists.


yes crimes have occurred but none so consistently fuct as those done in the name of religion.

This post from you contains two claims, each saying more or less the same thing. Skipping over mm's attempt to bait you, wright asked a perfectly reasonable question, and did so in a pretty neutral manner:

^^^Can you back that up with some sources, eh?

Did so while indicating a general agreement:
Quote
I certainly won't argue that religious ideology doesn't lend itself to horrible abuse,

Then even did you the courtesy of explaining why:
Quote
but such sweeping statements should have some substance that can be verified.

And how did you respond to a reasonable request, asked politely, with an explanation for the need?

Like this:
You lack the most basic and general knowledge . i will leave it to you to find evidence of such abuses. it will be the simplest search you have ever done ...>snip< why di you ask.

Look eh!, you are welcome to be here, really. But could you please try to be a little less combative over minor things like this that are expected of everyone? You weren't being singled out, and to respond to wright's request by suggesting that he lacks "the most basic and general knowledge" makes YOU look bad. We expect everyone to back up their claims with evidence. It's unacceptable to demand that the questioner go find evidence of YOUR assertion.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: thank you's
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2014, 10:14:21 AM »
Eh?, I'm with the others on this. You are over-generalizing as you feign specifics. Plus, you're focusing too much of your anger on too small an area.

Religion isn't the only source of human-caused horror on this planet. Genghis Khan, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot cannot be ignored.

No atheist is going to deny that the religious have, at times, done absolutely horrendous things to those who dared disagree with them. But that is a human norm, and we don't actually need that much of an excuse to wreak havoc on our neighbors. It can be convenient though.

Believe it or not, right now we humans are experiencing more peace and less violence than any time in recorded history. The number of conflicts and war deaths and such is lower now than it has ever been. Yea, we have income inequality/slavery/poverty/caste systems/overpopulation/global warming/reality TV and a host of other very real problems. But outside of the serious squabbles going on in places like Nigeria and Afghanistan and a couple of dozen other places, not a whole lot of actual oppression is going on. Yea, people who love Fox News wish they had at the balls to oppress the rest of us, but they're too busy having sex with their gun collection.

So sure, its bad. And if humans are to survive, we need to find solutions. So recognizing problems and dealing with them is vitally important. But getting your panties in a wad about just one of the many reasons we humans cap asses accomplishes nothing. And in fact, it is attitudes like the one you are displaying here that furthers the cause of violence.

Calm down, assess the situation more realistically. Take history into consideration, but don't make it your main thesis. That is one of the reasons we have problems today; people with too much pride in the past taking the present too seriously.

Don't be the problem.
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Re: thank you's
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2014, 12:20:31 PM »
That's a start, good.


911
The crusades
hitler yes hitler
the inquisitions

No argument with any of those. However, actual links to original sources would be appreciated. We're having this discussion over the internet; there are literally entire libraries just a few clicks away.

Quote
God drowning the world and other ot genocides

Since I regard the Bible as mythical at best, these don't really qualify as evidence for your argument. I agree they don't show Biblegod in a good light, though.

Quote
a south african friend was taught apartheid murderous regime was basically justified by the bible

No offense, but personal anecdotes aren't proof either. Again, a link to an article or study that showed at least some of the supporters of Apartheid were religiously motivated would be needed.

Quote
the destruction of about every indigenous culture on the planet

While a lot of those genocides were rationalized in religious terms, I'd argue that the motives of European conquerors in the Americas and elsewhere were mostly economic. They wanted the land and the resources that came with it; other motivations were secondary.

Quote
the witch burnings
the taliban antics

No argument on those, but again, links to sources are needed to really complete your argument.

Quote
that guy who just kidnapped all those school girls in nigeria

The particulars of that example I'm not familiar with. Again, links that show the motivations of the kidnappers are religious are necessary.

Quote

some country can't remember but they were catholic sentenced another country to death for not being xtian

A historical event you can't remember the details of is not proof.

Quote
england/ireland

A classic, ugly sectarian mess, agreed.

Quote
get the idea. i will let you verify 911 and such if you think i am making it all up.

Being snide doesn't advance your argument either.

Quote
anyhoo that's straight from my ass. i can actually do some formal research if you are still in doubt.

Like I said, it's a start. What you have here is a list, some of which supports your position and some of which doesn't. If you want your arguments to carry weight, do better research and provide links to sources.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Re: thank you's
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2014, 12:45:37 PM »
To ask someone to provide links to events like 911 and the crusades etc is in itself BS and a clear waste of time and is condescending to the person i am giving the links to. would you also ask for multiple links and an evaluation of the sources... verified writings of crusaders with a signature of a lawyer with his business contacts and a official approval of a team of consulting academic historians to make the links more valid. no of course not.


does everyone provide a link to every assertion made here... no because discussion would be impossible .


I agree with maintaining good standards of authorship. but imo Wright's requests. were designed to start an argument .

my thank you's was a simple assertion of appreciation on a personal emotional level that does not need a fuking link.

MM did his standard cowardly deviation and YOU. guys bit.  win to MM's

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Re: thank you's
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2014, 02:31:25 PM »
^^^When you make a sweeping assertion on this forum, you are likely to be asked to back it up. While most of us here are atheists and generally agree with you on the harm caused by religion, we are also skeptics.

To ask someone to provide links to events like 911 and the crusades etc is in itself BS and a clear waste of time and is condescending to the person i am giving the links to. would you also ask for multiple links and an evaluation of the sources... verified writings of crusaders with a signature of a lawyer with his business contacts and a official approval of a team of consulting academic historians to make the links more valid. no of course not.

What's condescending is this:
You lack the most basic and general knowledge .

I explicitly did not dispute that the crusades happened, and I find those that do silly, perhaps delusional. I asked you, for the sake of completing your argument, to provide a link to a source that showed at least some of the religious motivation for that particular historical event. Really, I don't see why this is so difficult for you.

Quote
does everyone provide a link to every assertion made here... no because discussion would be impossible .

No, of course they don't. However, when someone is politely asked to back up their assertions, the most respected members here at least try to do so.


Quote
I agree with maintaining good standards of authorship. but imo Wright's requests. were designed to start an argument .

This is a forum for discussion, which often means disagreeing with each other; does it really surprise you to have that happen? I saw another atheist making a general statement and failing to back it up. The regulars here that I respect at least attempt to support their assertions, so I held yours (as I hold my own) to that standard.

Quote
my thank you's was a simple assertion of appreciation on a personal emotional level that does not need a fuking link.

MM did his standard cowardly deviation and YOU. guys bit.  win to MM's

Again, it's an open forum. Except for places like the Shelter and the Emergency Room, anyone can comment on anything, anytime.

How exactly is MM's reply to you cowardly? Got to go. More later, if you're interested.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: thank you's
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2014, 03:01:56 PM »
Nobody has done it to the scale, severity, duration and wholesale brutality and claimed they were right in doing so as have our wonderful theists.


yes crimes have occurred but none so consistently fuct as those done in the name of religion.

When you say nobody, you are being way to general. And wrong. A few thousand years ago in China, 450,000 men surrendered to the army of another dynasty. They were all killed, buried alive. 450,000 people. Is that really less harmful to human life than burning a few folks at the stake? Note that religion was not involved.

(Sorry, I forgot. 240 boys were left alive to go back home and tell everyone what happened.)

Here is how you post a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Changping

Note too that not everyone agrees on the level of horror brought on by the crusades. So that is why we ask for links in these cases, so we'll know where the poster is coming from.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 03:04:56 PM by ParkingPlaces »
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Re: thank you's
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2014, 03:54:20 PM »
PP interesting link.


can someone find a problem with post number 1, not the intentional derail to minimize the gratitude i tried to express.
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Offline cwschizzy

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Re: thank you's
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2014, 06:23:26 PM »
Everyone will rank the harm and destruction on different levels of severity relative to their own perceptions. The important thing is to keep in mind the various atrocities in mind, as history repeats for those who forget it.
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