Author Topic: What is the soul?  (Read 1575 times)

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Offline epidemic

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What is the soul?
« on: May 09, 2014, 07:36:05 AM »
Is the soul your essence, who you are, the thing that makes you essentially you? 

If not what do you think it is supposed to be?

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2014, 07:54:02 AM »
It's a Greek idea from Plato.  Origen believed the Greek idea that it pre-exists our bodies, whereas Tertullian believed it was created with our bodies.

The idea can't really be read back into the Hebrew texts, since they believed in it being a breath that animated an animal.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline epidemic

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2014, 07:58:37 AM »
It's a Greek idea from Plato.  Origen believed the Greek idea that it pre-exists our bodies, whereas Tertullian believed it was created with our bodies.

The idea can't really be read back into the Hebrew texts, since they believed in it being a breath that animated an animal.

What is it's role in our lives? Does it make us who we are?

Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2014, 08:07:09 AM »
Is the soul your essence, who you are, the thing that makes you essentially you? 

If not what do you think it is supposed to be?

I think it is energy.  I definitely consider my body a vessel that carries my spirit.  I also believe the soul/spirit is the secret to happiness.  A healthy spirit.  One that doesn't have to carry the burden of guilt. ;)

hey, from my grandson. ;) 

I think that Star Wars describes it very well as "The Force".  It is where our internal strength comes from, IMO.

I think it is you.  I think it can not die.
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Offline epidemic

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2014, 08:15:05 AM »
Is the soul your essence, who you are, the thing that makes you essentially you? 

If not what do you think it is supposed to be?

I think it is energy.  I definitely consider my body a vessel that carries my spirit.  I also believe the soul/spirit is the secret to happiness.  A healthy spirit.  One that doesn't have to carry the burden of guilt. ;)

hey, from my grandson. ;) 

I think that Star Wars describes it very well as "The Force".  It is where our internal strength comes from, IMO.

I think it is you.  I think it can not die.

how does that soul relate to who you are, is it your magical essence?

Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2014, 09:12:56 AM »
Is the soul your essence, who you are, the thing that makes you essentially you? 

If not what do you think it is supposed to be?

I think it is energy.  I definitely consider my body a vessel that carries my spirit.  I also believe the soul/spirit is the secret to happiness.  A healthy spirit.  One that doesn't have to carry the burden of guilt. ;)

hey, from my grandson. ;) 

I think that Star Wars describes it very well as "The Force".  It is where our internal strength comes from, IMO.

I think it is you.  I think it can not die.

how does that soul relate to who you are, is it your magical essence?

No it is not magic.  I thought I said my soul/spirit is me, IMO.  I try to nurture my spirit so I am kind to others.  I do not like the feeling of guilt or shame. 
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Offline epidemic

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 09:16:56 AM »
how does that soul relate to who you are, is it your magical essence?

No it is not magic.  I thought I said my soul/spirit is me, IMO.  I try to nurture my spirit so I am kind to others.  I do not like the feeling of guilt or shame.

So your soul is just a manifestation of your "id" a psychological portion of your physical electro chemical brain.  If we are talking about separate from your physical body and eternal I would call that magical. 

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2014, 09:21:36 AM »
Soul is a god of the gaps. Originally to explain consciousness; gets smaller every time scientists find out that you don't need a soul to be conscious.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2014, 09:26:30 AM »
[1]
 1. Sorry - couldn't resist.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2014, 02:50:02 PM »
The words "soul" and "spirit" are born out of superstition.  We are one miniscule part of the tree of life that has evolved on this planet in the last 3.5 billion years. We are not separate from the rest of the animal kingdom. The idea that we are, is an illusion, mostly due to how we seem different, but that seeming difference is only our advancement, largely due to the development of language.  Many mistake their consciousness and emotions as "spirit" or "soul", but this is not surprising given that many lack critical thinking skills.

The fact is, everything you are is a function of your brain activity. Full stop.  Any thoughts or beliefs that one's consciousness survives the death of the brain is nothing more than wishful thinking, and/or the fear of death and the wish to survive it.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 08:35:41 PM by Star Stuff »
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Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2014, 06:34:12 AM »
how does that soul relate to who you are, is it your magical essence?

No it is not magic.  I thought I said my soul/spirit is me, IMO.  I try to nurture my spirit so I am kind to others.  I do not like the feeling of guilt or shame.

So your soul is just a manifestation of your "id" a psychological portion of your physical electro chemical brain.  If we are talking about separate from your physical body and eternal I would call that magical.

How does that make it magic?  :?

I certainly don't look at it that way.  I think it's very natural.  Energy is a natural thing.  It fuels our lives literally.  When a star dies it becomes something else.  That energy is recycled and never wasted. :)
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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2014, 06:46:06 AM »
Weighs 21 grams...... apparently.


wonder if it is like the Chinese. Chi as in tai chi??  Which is not related. to god/s and pre-dates xtianity...... i think?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2014, 06:48:54 AM »
The words "soul" and "spirit" are born out of superstition.  We are one miniscule part of the tree of life that has evolved on this planet in the last 3.5 billion years. We are not separate from the rest of the animal kingdom. The idea that we are, is an illusion, mostly due to how we seem different, but that seeming difference is only our advancement, largely due to the development of language.  Many mistake their consciousness and emotions as "spirit" or "soul", but not surprising given that many lack critical thinking skills.

The fact is, everything you are is a function of your brain activity. Full stop.  Any thoughts or beliefs that one's consciousness survives the death of the brain is nothing more than wishful thinking, and/or the fear of death and the wish to survive it.

Evidence please?

My belief in my spirit comes from feeling it inside me.  It hungers for peace, love and tranquility in the world.  I love with my spirit. 

Do you consider arrogance a moral attribute StarStuff?

I think atheism encourages arrogance, I really, really do.  &)

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2014, 07:02:16 AM »
JB what is the basis to your thought that atheism promotes arrogance, and how does arrogance change the truth value of a statement .

if you claim to know you have a soul how do you know this other than you "feel" it. are there other explanations you have considered. to explain your feelings?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2014, 07:23:22 AM »
JB what is the basis to your thought that atheism promotes arrogance, and how does arrogance change the truth value of a statement .

I almost forgot to answer this question.  Arrogance does not change the truth of a statement.  Arrogance describes the character of the informer and to me dilutes the information.

if you claim to know you have a soul how do you know this other than you "feel" it. are there other explanations you have considered. to explain your feelings?

Yes the one that claims it comes from my brain.  This didn't add up for me for a couple of reasons.  I process feelings with my brain.  Why would my brain create a feeling it must then analyze?  My feelings live in my chest not my head.  That's why love is in the shape of a heart and not a brain. ;)

I watched a TTWHole episode on this subject.  There are respectable scientist that believe there is a spirit in us humans that can not die.  They did not say whether or not that spirit goes to heaven or a hell,  just that it can not die.  Of course there were alternate theories, there always are. ;)

When I say I feel it I mean physically not emotionally.  Just like I feel the keys on my keyboard as I type.  Do I need to look elsewhere to explain why I feel the keys?  It's because they are there. 

Do you really think we love with only our brains?  Come on now.  There is no need to believe in god/gods to accept the existence of the human spirit. 

« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 07:41:01 AM by junebug72 »
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Offline jetson

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2014, 08:14:47 AM »

Evidence please?

My belief in my spirit comes from feeling it inside me.  It hungers for peace, love and tranquility in the world.  I love with my spirit. 

Do you consider arrogance a moral attribute StarStuff?

I think atheism encourages arrogance, I really, really do.  &)

All of the woo associated with "feelings" and "spirit" is what requires evidence, not the other way around. Humans are great at labeling stuff, and creating abstractions. But once we developed a decent scientific method for understanding how things came to be, and how they work, we became much better as a species in many ways. Don't forget that burden of proof always lies with those making a positive truth claim. If you cannot provide evidence of "feeling it inside me" or "spirit", then you have no position on asking for evidence from the other side.


Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2014, 08:58:02 AM »

Evidence please?

My belief in my spirit comes from feeling it inside me.  It hungers for peace, love and tranquility in the world.  I love with my spirit. 

Do you consider arrogance a moral attribute StarStuff?

I think atheism encourages arrogance, I really, really do.  &)

All of the woo associated with "feelings" and "spirit" is what requires evidence, not the other way around. Humans are great at labeling stuff, and creating abstractions. But once we developed a decent scientific method for understanding how things came to be, and how they work, we became much better as a species in many ways. Don't forget that burden of proof always lies with those making a positive truth claim. If you cannot provide evidence of "feeling it inside me" or "spirit", then you have no position on asking for evidence from the other side.

I understand.  I am not asking for evidence of the non existence of a soul just that it is a side effect of non critical thinking and superstition.  That sounded more like an opinion to me.

I think, which is an opinion and I am stating as such, that it had more to do with a desire for a complete understanding of the human body and how it works. 
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Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2014, 09:31:00 AM »
How can I prove that I physically feel my spirit?   That I feel anything?  I feel these keys how do I prove that? 
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Offline jetson

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2014, 01:00:00 PM »
How can I prove that I physically feel my spirit?   That I feel anything?  I feel these keys how do I prove that?

I don't think you need to prove something like that. Many people feel the same way, even atheists. Many atheists I know admit to having some level of "spirituality", apart from specific religious beliefs or tenets. When I consider the cosmos, I get feelings of awe that I cannot explain. When I ride my mountain bike through trails among the trees and rocks, I see and hear animals everywhere...and I am in awe. I feel a strong connection to nature. I attribute that to the fact that I am as much a part of that same nature as anything else.

I don't know if I am connected to nature, but I do know that I am the stuff of nature. I just can't feel any connection to anything supernatural that is invented by humans, like gods. I have to add also that I have absolutely zero feelings or concerns that humans are somehow broken, or sinners - or whatever the hell these religious people keep proclaiming...pure nonsense.

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2014, 01:01:23 PM »
We know you can feel the keys from deduction. if you lacked feeling to do so there would be many limiting factors in your life that prolly would have surfaced by now. i am so sure i have correctly deduced you can feel your key board i will back my deduction with $100.

As for your soul i have no such personal experience or have observed it in others to reach a conclusion by deductive methods such you feeling a key board.


without being. a dick i feel existence of the soul requires substantial proof..... much more than belief that you can feel a key board.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2014, 05:16:43 AM »
We know you can feel the keys from deduction. if you lacked feeling to do so there would be many limiting factors in your life that prolly would have surfaced by now. i am so sure i have correctly deduced you can feel your key board i will back my deduction with $100.

As for your soul i have no such personal experience or have observed it in others to reach a conclusion by deductive methods such you feeling a key board.


without being. a dick i feel existence of the soul requires substantial proof..... much more than belief that you can feel a key board.

eh! I wasn't using the keyboard example as proof.  There is a difference in physically feeling something and emotionally feeling something.

I have had the experience.

Did you read Jetson's post?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2014, 05:33:01 AM »
How can I prove that I physically feel my spirit?   That I feel anything?  I feel these keys how do I prove that?

I don't think you need to prove something like that. Many people feel the same way, even atheists. Many atheists I know admit to having some level of "spirituality", apart from specific religious beliefs or tenets. When I consider the cosmos, I get feelings of awe that I cannot explain. When I ride my mountain bike through trails among the trees and rocks, I see and hear animals everywhere...and I am in awe. I feel a strong connection to nature. I attribute that to the fact that I am as much a part of that same nature as anything else.

I don't know if I am connected to nature, but I do know that I am the stuff of nature. I just can't feel any connection to anything supernatural that is invented by humans, like gods. I have to add also that I have absolutely zero feelings or concerns that humans are somehow broken, or sinners - or whatever the hell these religious people keep proclaiming...pure nonsense.

Great post jetson. :)  I know you're not exactly claiming you have a soul but you are willing to accept why some would.  It doesn't make me sad at all that atheist do not believe in god/s.  What makes me sad is the denial of the soul.  When you said there that some atheist admit to having a level of spirituality it did my soul good.

I detest/loathe the word sin.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline anthony_retford

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2014, 06:27:59 PM »
People want to have souls because they want to feel special.
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Offline Defiance

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2014, 08:21:49 PM »
How can I prove that I physically feel my spirit?   That I feel anything?  I feel these keys how do I prove that?

I don't think you need to prove something like that. Many people feel the same way, even atheists. Many atheists I know admit to having some level of "spirituality", apart from specific religious beliefs or tenets. When I consider the cosmos, I get feelings of awe that I cannot explain. When I ride my mountain bike through trails among the trees and rocks, I see and hear animals everywhere...and I am in awe. I feel a strong connection to nature. I attribute that to the fact that I am as much a part of that same nature as anything else.

I don't know if I am connected to nature, but I do know that I am the stuff of nature. I just can't feel any connection to anything supernatural that is invented by humans, like gods. I have to add also that I have absolutely zero feelings or concerns that humans are somehow broken, or sinners - or whatever the hell these religious people keep proclaiming...pure nonsense.

Great post jetson. :)  I know you're not exactly claiming you have a soul but you are willing to accept why some would.  It doesn't make me sad at all that atheist do not believe in god/s.  What makes me sad is the denial of the soul.  When you said there that some atheist admit to having a level of spirituality it did my soul good.

I detest/loathe the word sin.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Don't be sad, Junebug. I don't believe in a soul, and I am perfectly happy. And also, I am one of those athiests that reject all supernatural and spirituality.  Does that does your "soul" bad?
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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2014, 12:52:41 AM »
The soul is what animates the body. It can't even be seen when you look in a mirror at yourself. You can't see a person's soul when you talk to them face to face but when they die, you know it was there. The soul is what leaves the body when a person expires.

Materialsm hits a brick wall with the immaterial soul. It has never, can never, and will never be able to explain what leaves a person's body when they expire.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2014, 06:02:49 AM »
People want to have souls because they want to feel special.

You are special too.  Everybody is.  Let's dance... :laugh:
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Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2014, 06:04:55 AM »

Don't be sad, Junebug. I don't believe in a soul, and I am perfectly happy. And also, I am one of those athiests that reject all supernatural and spirituality.  Does that does your "soul" bad?

As long as you're happy I'm happy. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2014, 06:20:20 AM »
The soul is what animates the body. It can't even be seen when you look in a mirror at yourself. You can't see a person's soul when you talk to them face to face but when they die, you know it was there. The soul is what leaves the body when a person expires.

Materialsm hits a brick wall with the immaterial soul. It has never, can never, and will never be able to explain what leaves a person's body when they expire.

Then you ain't looking hard enough Skep. 

Never say Never... 

 
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Re: What is the soul?
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2014, 06:22:56 AM »
How widespread is the soul concept historically amongst the world's religions and how do they compare descriptively?

Anyone know?
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