Author Topic: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?  (Read 3289 times)

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Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2014, 05:33:49 AM »
What stands out to me is that it's quite possible that you seek out the comfort that you never got from your father, and find it in an imaginary father.

I was in a hurry yesterday. 

So let's say you're right.  How did this "imaginary" father comfort me?  Would I have survived w/o it and how?

Why did my belief not stop when my dad and I made up?
It didn't comfort you, you comforted yourself, because you made the idea of your own god.
Yes, you would have survived. All you had to say was, "Well even though it's not real, I am a strong human, I can survive without fairytales."
Why would you want to stop believing in eternal life? I know you don't.  Thats why you kept believing. Why would you convince yourself that "This is all there is", seeing as in the past you pretty much depended on the idea of your god.

It could've been myself but I don't think so. 

I have only depended on God for comfort.  Everything else in my life I am responsible for but not my comfort. 

What makes you think I have convinced myself, "this is all there is"?

The religions are not fairy tales they are horror stories.  Especially Noah's Ark.

Eternal life to me is a myth.  This life of mine is not eternal.  My body will be cremated.  I believe my spirit will be freed from my body.  Other than that I just don't know.  I sure as hell don't believe in any hell. :)  Don't believe in streets of gold either.  Just freedom really from pain, from sadness. :angel:

You are right to the extent that the biblical heaven was the last lingering part of religion associated with my belief.  Thanks to WWGHA I  let that go.

I am a hopeless romantic so I see me and TR making love on all the stars and moons etc... :)  Imagine that w/o a body. :laugh:  Being able to completely connect with your lover.  Talk about ecstasy!  :P
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2014, 05:55:21 AM »
When i say god i am either talking about a particular character defined by a specific religion. so if i say god to a Muslim i am talking about Allah. a xtian yaweh...etc.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2014, 05:56:50 AM »

So basically for you, "God" is just electrical signals operating within the limits of biology and natural physics?

Operating within the limits of biology and physics; yes.  "Just" electrical signals; no.





What do you mean by "a power greater than myself"?

All that power out there in space.




Further, what makes you think that "Life is a gift"? How can you demonstrate that life (as we know it) was given by a someone? Aren't you just assuming?

It sounded good. ;) 

I think you are assuming that I mean "someone" and not "something".  So let me rephrase: Life is a Gift=Something is the "Giver" 

I believe that "something" has been defined poorly/horribly over the years but I do believe in "something".  I do not know what "something" is made of or how it came to be.  I know "something" exists because I exist.  I call "something" God.

Thanks for helping me to clear this up.  If I did.  :D
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2014, 05:59:28 AM »
When i say god i am either talking about a particular character defined by a specific religion. so if i say god to a Muslim i am talking about Allah. a xtian yaweh...etc.

That's why you don't understand what God means to me.  I did not find God in religion.  You never will either.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2014, 06:15:05 AM »
^ You have just made up your own religion to suit how you want god to be.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2014, 06:23:31 AM »
^ You have just made up your own religion to suit how you want god to be.

Please explain how I made up a religion.  I am not trying to get anyone to follow me just understand me.  I am not worthy of such a task.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2014, 06:31:31 AM »
You're not worthy comment is just residual detritus from your xtian days.... it had no real meaning. you have been given the belief you are not worthy by systematic trauma/brainwashing. in reality it does not mean anything.

your religion you have invented for yourself is also a symptom of that same trauma.

i hope you can one day be free.

understand each other?....we really are islands.  learn to get along is the best we can ever do, and we are shit at it.
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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2014, 06:43:53 AM »
You're not worthy comment is just residual detritus from your xtian days.... it had no real meaning. you have been given the belief you are not worthy by systematic trauma/brainwashing. in reality it does not mean anything.

your religion you have invented for yourself is also a symptom of that same trauma.

i hope you can one day be free.

understand each other?....we really are islands.  learn to get along is the best we can ever do, and we are shit at it.

You have the right to an opinion.  It doesn't explain anything though.

I am working real hard to get along.  Actually it's not that hard, you guys are cool.  It's me that needs improving.  I was very sensitive during my breast cancer experience.  I will always remember the love and support I was shown here.  I will forget the rest.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2014, 06:48:56 AM »
Everyone has a right to an opinion, mine are just better. that's why xtianity woul be hard for me the whole you are unworthy shit they spin. i am just too fuking awesome in every way possible.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2014, 06:51:04 AM »
Everyone has a right to an opinion, mine are just better. that's why xtianity woul be hard for me the whole you are unworthy shit they spin. i am just too fuking awesome in every way possible.

Let me say it this way.  I don't want that responsibility.  I am awesome that's why I wouldn't do it.  That is between you and you.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2014, 07:11:08 AM »
?
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2014, 10:10:22 AM »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Defiance

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2014, 11:32:02 AM »
You have not convinced yourself that this is all there is.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant to ask you , why WOULD you convince yourself that? When you have so much comfort in your belief, why would you give it up for the hard reality?

That is why you haven't given it up; psychologically, it's better for you.

Same way, Athiesm is what I find psychologically satisfying. As to which is true...we might need a debate for that :) .
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2014, 01:12:05 PM »
You have not convinced yourself that this is all there is.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant to ask you , why WOULD you convince yourself that? When you have so much comfort in your belief, why would you give it up for the hard reality?

That is why you haven't given it up; psychologically, it's better for you.

Same way, Athiesm is what I find psychologically satisfying. As to which is true...we might need a debate for that :) .

My perception of God is flexible to any definition except a cruel one. 

So... I agree with you when you say; "God does not exist".  Nothing cruel about that! :angel:  I don't think there is anything to debate. ;)

I learned my lesson about debating the existence of god/gods.  :P

I don't think it can be done. :o  I don't think it needs to be done. uh uh uh no I don't.  8)

It is all there is of this; being mortal that is.  At least I hope so. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2014, 01:28:33 PM »
What do I mean by god.

Well on the small scale a powerful imortal being that can work magic,

But the god, god of gods.

A magical being that can create a universe, is imortal, sits in judgment over people, knows your thoughts, punishes those who have done wrong...

Offline Defiance

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2014, 07:53:48 PM »
Junebug, how did your god come about?
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2014, 08:29:49 PM »
Junebug, how did your god come about?

I'm not sure but I have this hypothesis that God was created in the Big Bang.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2014, 08:33:42 PM »
I'm not sure but I have this hypothesis that God was created in the Big Bang.

God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups

Offline Defiance

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2014, 09:21:40 PM »
Junebug, how did your god come about?

I'm not sure but I have this hypothesis that God was created in the Big Bang.
How do you plan on carrying out this hypothesis?

And how does it make sense that a random-seeming explosion created an infinitely complex being?
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2014, 10:32:37 PM »
God came about when june thought of him ......like all gods.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2014, 07:32:13 AM »
Junebug, how did your god come about?

I'm not sure but I have this hypothesis that God was created in the Big Bang.
How do you plan on carrying out this hypothesis?

And how does it make sense that a random-seeming explosion created an infinitely complex being?

First, I know from experience that when things are condensed it makes things stronger.  I think this happened because matter was so dense while brewing up the Big Bang.   

Second, It's a falsifiable claim.

I'm putting the idea out there.  That's about all I can do right now.  I have shared it here to get feedback.  There is a thread in the shelter about it.  Xyzzy sure helped.  Smart guy.

I have said here many times I believe in a natural God.  I think all things must adhere to the laws of NATURE.  I don't believe in supernatural things, santa, EBunny, TFairy, unicorns, dragons or magic.  If those things existed the world would certainly be a hell of a lot more chaotic.

I do believe God will heal our spirits.  I also believe God expects us to help each other.  Nothing and I mean nothing helps heal a spirit better than kindness and love from your fellow man.  NOTHING!!!



Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2014, 08:07:12 AM »
God came about when june thought of him ......like all gods.

The Force is strong with this one... :laugh: 

Oh the power of sarcasm to make one laugh. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

This comment is irrelevant.  No disrespect intended eh!. 

Just another reason why I think atheism fuels arrogance. ;)

There is a certain condescending tone that almost every atheist I talk to has.  I am a theist; not a child.  If I want to teach someone something I presuppose they can learn it.  I relay that information in a fun, patient and relaxed way.  This method has always served me well, always. 

I think religion creates arrogance too; i.e. The Arion Nation/KKK.  I think there's not a preacher/pastor out there that is NOT arrogant.

They think they can answer questions for God.  To me that's the epitome of arrogance.  To live in a Christian family, to me, means mother and father is almost God to their children.  This is child abuse according to Pia Melody in her book Codependent No More.  Yelp don't think people should talk to their kids about gods until they are 13/14 years old.  Even then I would say to my child that is something you must discover on your own, love you.

Okay, enough rambling already.  :P
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline Defiance

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2014, 10:55:10 AM »
Junebug, how did your god come about?

I'm not sure but I have this hypothesis that God was created in the Big Bang.
How do you plan on carrying out this hypothesis?

And how does it make sense that a random-seeming explosion created an infinitely complex being?

First, I know from experience that when things are condensed it makes things stronger.  I think this happened because matter was so dense while brewing up the Big Bang.   

Second, It's a falsifiable claim.

I'm putting the idea out there.  That's about all I can do right now.  I have shared it here to get feedback.  There is a thread in the shelter about it.  Xyzzy sure helped.  Smart guy.

I have said here many times I believe in a natural God.  I think all things must adhere to the laws of NATURE.  I don't believe in supernatural things, santa, EBunny, TFairy, unicorns, dragons or magic.  If those things existed the world would certainly be a hell of a lot more chaotic.

I do believe God will heal our spirits.  I also believe God expects us to help each other.  Nothing and I mean nothing helps heal a spirit better than kindness and love from your fellow man.  NOTHING!!!
So if it is a natural god, and exists in space and time, what are it's physical properties?

If something exists within time and space, it has location and timeframe.

Eg: Heat exists in space, and for certain time.
      Cars exist in America, etc.

So then tell us, how do we measure and detect your god?
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2014, 11:19:30 AM »
I'm not sure but I have this hypothesis that God was created in the Big Bang.
.....
It's a falsifiable claim.

In what way?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Bluecolour

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2014, 01:47:47 PM »
Junebug, how did your god come about?

I'm not sure but I have this hypothesis that God was created in the Big Bang.


Junebug,
Please believe me when I say I do not mean to offend you with this post. It will be difficult.

WTF!!!
Junebug, you have rolling around that head of yours the most ridiculous assortment of beliefs I have ever come across.
For the life of me I cannot begin to imagine the disjointed web of thought [and I call it thought merely for convenience sake] that leads you to these inane assertions. To me what is even more amazing is the sufficient boldness you must have to post these beliefs, EVEN ANONYMOUSLY, where any thinking person might read them.

Again my aim is not to offend, but let me also be clear. It is not the beliefs themselves, their lack of of foundation or even their apparent imperviousness to argument that gets to me. No. Its the the absolute zero (0) logical correlation they seem to have with one another. The absense even of any apparent ATTEMPT to resolve them.

I am a theist. I am familiar with the arguments of atheism. I don't agree with most of them. It is the way I think but it is also my choice.
I believe in a sovereign power over this universe. I believe in mans eternal relation to this sovereign power. But most importantly, I see the signature and identity of this power in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Junebug, you literarily make me ashamed of everything I believe.
Your so evidently irrational convictions bring more doubt that the most militant atheistic attacks on my faith. With any argument you can strain to find a counterargument. But I have no response for the portrait of faith you create each time you share your views on this site.

Its not that you make me think atheism is true, its that you damage my capacity to believe anything whatsoever. You feed a very dangerous nihilism that I have been prone to my entire life. You do this not by beautifying despair but by disgracing its counterpart. And that is how my hope feels every time I have to read something you have written, disgraced. Every time I hear you speak about god it's as if I were watching my own mother being stripped naked in a market square.

I suggest maybe you read some books on thought, that you practice skepticism or take a course in philosophy. Most importantly I most strongly suggest that you no longer just post whatever abstraction of thought you've cultured in your mind. So far I do not know that they have benefited anyone, quite the opposite in fact.

I am not directly offended by any of your posts. You've already said that you do not intend to force anyone into your beliefs. Your wish is merely to be understood. I ask that you receive this post in much the same way.
For you god's love is a wonderful, personal and needed experience. You wish to share this wonderful experience with as many people as possible. It's a noble mission. However, if your intent is truly to bring light into the lives of others, then you must pay very close attention to the responses your getting. Otherwise you may inadvertently do more damage than repair.

I am just one example. Your words have brought darkness on my soul. In many ways this post isn't an insult or an advise, its a plea for mercy.

Offline epidemic

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2014, 02:01:19 PM »

I have said here many times I believe in a natural God.  I think all things must adhere to the laws of NATURE.  I don't believe in supernatural things, santa, EBunny, TFairy, unicorns, dragons or magic.  If those things existed the world would certainly be a hell of a lot more chaotic.

I do believe God will heal our spirits.  I also believe God expects us to help each other.  Nothing and I mean nothing helps heal a spirit better than kindness and love from your fellow man.  NOTHING!!!

In your example of god being created by the big bang, then random chaos was able to create the ultimate order in your god.

Why would it not be possible that the laws of physics are as they are because that is how they are because of nature?

Perhaps our universe is not all that well ordered.  We only perceive it as ordered because we live in it with the laws we have been dealt.  Perhaps there are far more ordered univeses.

Picture you live in a house with a messy family you take laundry strewn around the house and drop it off by the laundry and you think man my house is neat now. Then you visit your aunt who is not quite as messy and you think to yourself... Wow she is so organized and neat, she puts her laundry in a basket rather than strewn around the whole house or in a pile.  Now you visit your grandmother house and she orgainzes here clothes by fabric type, color special washing considerations and every tuesday like clockwork she does her laundry.

Are the laws of physics the product of a superbeing created by a universe with out physics?

Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2014, 02:39:16 PM »

So if it is a natural god, and exists in space and time, what are it's physical properties?

If something exists within time and space, it has location and timeframe.

Eg: Heat exists in space, and for certain time.
      Cars exist in America, etc.

So then tell us, how do we measure and detect your god?

I have never seen God.  I do not know the physical properties.  I do not know your's either but you are there.  For you I could fly, drive, or take a train and meet you.  For God it's not that simple.

 
I think that is different for every individual.   For me it has been an inward journey.  One I take with my spirit.  That's how I detect God.  I will have to say also through my behavior.  If I say God lives in me and I'm cruel then you have found a cruel God.  If I say I believe in God and I behave kind then you have seen a kind God.  Why is this?  I think it's because we do not know what God is.  So then it comes down to individual perceptions.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2014, 02:49:16 PM »
I'm not sure but I have this hypothesis that God was created in the Big Bang.
.....
It's a falsifiable claim.

In what way?

I can not do it alone. :P 

I know it's a vague answer but I can't.  I have limited resources.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: RE: What do you mean when you say "god"?
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2014, 03:02:14 PM »
Junebug, how did your god come about?

I'm not sure but I have this hypothesis that God was created in the Big Bang.


Junebug,
Please believe me when I say I do not mean to offend you with this post. It will be difficult.

WTF!!!
Junebug, you have rolling around that head of yours the most ridiculous assortment of beliefs I have ever come across.
For the life of me I cannot begin to imagine the disjointed web of thought [and I call it thought merely for convenience sake] that leads you to these inane assertions. To me what is even more amazing is the sufficient boldness you must have to post these beliefs, EVEN ANONYMOUSLY, where any thinking person might read them.

Again my aim is not to offend, but let me also be clear. It is not the beliefs themselves, their lack of of foundation or even their apparent imperviousness to argument that gets to me. No. Its the the absolute zero (0) logical correlation they seem to have with one another. The absense even of any apparent ATTEMPT to resolve them.

I am a theist. I am familiar with the arguments of atheism. I don't agree with most of them. It is the way I think but it is also my choice.
I believe in a sovereign power over this universe. I believe in mans eternal relation to this sovereign power. But most importantly, I see the signature and identity of this power in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Junebug, you literarily make me ashamed of everything I believe.
Your so evidently irrational convictions bring more doubt that the most militant atheistic attacks on my faith. With any argument you can strain to find a counterargument. But I have no response for the portrait of faith you create each time you share your views on this site.

Its not that you make me think atheism is true, its that you damage my capacity to believe anything whatsoever. You feed a very dangerous nihilism that I have been prone to my entire life. You do this not by beautifying despair but by disgracing its counterpart. And that is how my hope feels every time I have to read something you have written, disgraced. Every time I hear you speak about god it's as if I were watching my own mother being stripped naked in a market square.

I suggest maybe you read some books on thought, that you practice skepticism or take a course in philosophy. Most importantly I most strongly suggest that you no longer just post whatever abstraction of thought you've cultured in your mind. So far I do not know that they have benefited anyone, quite the opposite in fact.

I am not directly offended by any of your posts. You've already said that you do not intend to force anyone into your beliefs. Your wish is merely to be understood. I ask that you receive this post in much the same way.
For you god's love is a wonderful, personal and needed experience. You wish to share this wonderful experience with as many people as possible. It's a noble mission. However, if your intent is truly to bring light into the lives of others, then you must pay very close attention to the responses your getting. Otherwise you may inadvertently do more damage than repair.

I am just one example. Your words have brought darkness on my soul. In many ways this post isn't an insult or an advise, its a plea for mercy.

I don't want to hurt you. 

I have a question or two.  Why do you read my posts if they bother you so much?  How long have you been reading here?

Religion brings darkness upon my soul.  My posts are pleas for mercy as well.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99