Author Topic: You can't have it both ways  (Read 347 times)

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Offline G-Roll

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You can't have it both ways
« on: May 01, 2014, 03:31:52 PM »
Recently the GOP (predictably) shot down the raise of minimum wage. Probably because corporate billionaires don’t want to raise the minimum wage. So they do their masters bidding.
To me though the question is who do you tax? Every recent GOP candidate, governor, and senator that I can think of has always shouted from the mountain tops to lower taxes and never ever tax the 1%. Then point out the fact that the middle class is the real honey pot for tax revenue. If you tax the 1% a crazy draconian amount, almost a tax that would seem like a punishment for being rich, you still wouldn’t raise as much money compared to taxing the middle class. To my knowledge that holds true but I know nothing about taxes and even less about the 1%... Or what it's like to be rich.
However I do know the middle class is disappearing. My train of thought is that if "bipartisan" (the second ultimate American catch phrase behind Freedom) agreements could be met to perhaps only raise the minimum wage for workers 21 and over would that not increase the middle class and increase the people to tax, thus leave the 1% alone? That way the 1% can go about creating jobs or just being super awesome passing down the wealth with voodoo economics or trickle down or whatever they do. Awesomely.
   
I just don’t get how the right views this as a no go. How increasing the cost of a cheeseburger by $0.25 (arse pulled that number) will kill business. None the less a business that serves "food" that will ultimately kill you, but this is Merica and I will consume whatever the hell I want! Give me chicken byproducts pink paste or give me death... perhaps both....

But I digress... You can't have it both ways. 
Either tax the 1% a lot or build up the middle class and tax them. Or I guess the right lives in Freedom Land where no one needs be taxed at all because Jesus is going to kill the world soon enough anyway. Or whatever the alternative to taxes is to raise revenue, pay the national debt, buy back the US from China, ect...

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2014, 04:04:35 PM »
Let the street gangs run it.
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Offline G-Roll

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2014, 04:23:56 PM »
Run what? Which gang? What street?

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 05:44:44 PM »
Run-life

which gang -the most organised and brutal

what street - all of them


not trying to be a dick but if the middle class goes that's what will replace it.
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2014, 05:10:05 AM »
Run-life

which gang -the most organised and brutal

what street - all of them




You already have the police who are backed by politicians. How is this different from a countrywide armed gang?

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2014, 05:31:49 AM »
Police can be sued politicians can be voted out.
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2014, 05:43:42 AM »
Police can be sued politicians can be voted out.

These are mechanism of redress. Do gangs not have a means to settle internal disputes?

Offline G-Roll

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2014, 08:07:31 AM »
Police can be sued politicians can be voted out.

And then what? Replace the ones on the way out with another copy of what we just booted out?

Just curious, how much do you think your voice (vote)  counts these days? When 90% of Americans want background checks for gun purchases but that can't happen.

Why?

“The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence,”
"Testing Theories of American Politics"
Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page

Online Hatter23

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2014, 03:38:09 PM »
If you tax the 1% a crazy draconian amount, almost a tax that would seem like a punishment for being rich, you still wouldn’t raise as much money compared to taxing the middle class.

Actually incorrect. The wealth disparity is so extreme in the US currently that the top 1% hold over 35% of all the wealth at the lowest estimate and 50% at the top estimates. I'm inclined to believe Forbes and go with 40%.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2014, 08:17:11 PM »
The poor do what they can the rich do what they want.  the middle and lower classes will be maintained enough to protect the interests of the rich.

nothing changes.
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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2014, 08:29:36 PM »
The poor do what they can the rich do what they want.  the middle and lower classes will be maintained enough to protect the interests of the rich.

nothing changes.

That's how it used to be. Now the middle class is obsolete and starting to go away. The rich are forgetting to maintain things in a manner useful to them. Things may get ugly. Well, they already are, so they may get uglier.
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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2014, 08:34:45 PM »
I blame drone technology it has made the use of the cannon fodder classes redundant. thank godly that the biggest populations are the emerging middle class eg china and india.

there prosperity lies in peace manufacturing of useless shit.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2014, 07:31:17 AM »
But I digress... You can't have it both ways. 
Either tax the 1% a lot or build up the middle class and tax them.

I do not understand.  Why can you not do both?  That was how things had been for decades, prior to Ronald Reagan.



thank godly that the biggest populations are the emerging middle class eg china and india.


I see this as terrible news.  The earth cannot support everyone living like Americans.  We'd need something like six more planet earths to do that.  Their rising incomes will lead to extinctions, competition for resources, and war.  It is a zero sum game and will lead to the end of Homo sapiens.  Which wouldn't be all that bad if we left behind something other than a sterile rock or a few bacterium...
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Offline G-Roll

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2014, 11:37:46 AM »
I do not understand.  Why can you not do both?  That was how things had been for decades, prior to Ronald Reagan.

Sounds good to me. My point is that if the middle class is shrinking how much can you tax them? And how long can you maintain this tax source until it's not enough or unrealistic? Wouldn’t raising the minimum wage build the middle class and create more people to tax? That way the politicians that represent the interest of business can leave the "job creators" alone.

Offline screwtape

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Re: You can't have it both ways
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2014, 12:09:32 PM »
Sounds good to me. My point is that if the middle class is shrinking how much can you tax them?

I think that depends.  If you put measures in place to suck cash out of the wealthiest and grow the middle class, then I think a lot.  While people may piss and moan about taxes, they are at historic lows right now. So there may be some room. 

Also, if we re-evaluated our priorities, we might find ways to save on spending.  Like, we could probably cut the military budget by 50% and be fine. We could stop subsidizing corporate farms through the farm bill and be fine. Those two alone would cut about $300 Billion a year from the budget. 

Wouldn’t raising the minimum wage build the middle class and create more people to tax?

Maybe, but not directly.  What it does is give a lot of people a little more money, which they will not hoard in investments.  They will buy crap.  Lots of.  By which our economy is driven.  There will be a lag, but I believe this will ultimately have the effect you suggest.

That way the politicians that represent the interest of business can leave the "job creators" alone.

But there are Trillions (with a "TR") of dollars in revenue to be had in the overseas accounts of the "job creators".  There is no good reason they should be left alone.  Indeed, they are anethema to our democratic republic.  Taxing the piss out of them is in the public good.  If we aren't going to guillotine them, we should at least take some of their money.

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