Author Topic: Climate Change: Just The Facts  (Read 396 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline median

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1848
  • Darwins +201/-16
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahweh: Obviously not obvious.
    • Talk Origins
Climate Change: Just The Facts
« on: April 28, 2014, 12:45:06 AM »
I am just beginning to really dig into this issue of global climate change and its effects. Are human beings causing the earth to heat up in temperature and therefore melt the ice caps, etc? How can I find the evidence here and what are the good/bad arguments on both sides? Are scientists united on this issue? What are the facts and what should be done?

References please.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4936
  • Darwins +563/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Climate Change: Just The Facts
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2014, 12:10:58 PM »
Global warming and global cooling is mostly based on non-human processes.  However, human production of greenhouse gases over time has helped to maintain a relatively warm planet even though we should be entering a glacial period, at least according to the geological record.

Offline shnozzola

« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 06:55:31 PM by shnozzola »
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs

Offline mrbiscoop

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
  • Darwins +31/-2
  • Faith is not a virtue!
Re: Climate Change: Just The Facts
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2014, 10:20:16 PM »
Global warming and global cooling is mostly based on non-human processes.  However, human production of greenhouse gases over time has helped to maintain a relatively warm planet even though we should be entering a glacial period, at least according to the geological record.
Care to back that up with something other than just your assertions?
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
              -Emo Philips

Offline median

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1848
  • Darwins +201/-16
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahweh: Obviously not obvious.
    • Talk Origins
Re: Climate Change: Just The Facts
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2014, 07:14:48 PM »
I had watched a few videos from TED, and others, and it sounded as if scientists are pretty sure that human caused global warming is a real threat, even though it is also accepted that earth global warming and cooling are cyclical. The main point I came away with, though, is that humans are causing excess warming that is going to be very dangerous to us. Is this not correct?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Mrjason

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1284
  • Darwins +93/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Climate Change: Just The Facts
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 09:36:20 AM »
I had watched a few videos from TED, and others, and it sounded as if scientists are pretty sure that human caused global warming is a real threat, even though it is also accepted that earth global warming and cooling are cyclical. The main point I came away with, though, is that humans are causing excess warming that is going to be very dangerous to us. Is this not correct?

Yeah. The planet will get over it though.
Unless we permanently break the earths method of temperature self regulation.

I read something somewhere that it is theoretically possible to stop the current that moves heat around the oceans which would lead to extreme temperatures in the poles and tropics, dump a load of gas stored in the ocean into the atmosphere starting a runaway green house effect causing earth to end up like venus.

Unfortunately I don't remember much else about it like names and specific causes etc. Not much help I know but maybe someone here does know about this.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Climate Change: Just The Facts
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2014, 06:14:46 PM »
Today on NPR:  (could be the facts, could be Obama trying to keep people from thinking about Obamacare.  &) )

http://nca2014.globalchange.gov/report



http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/05/06/310021768/new-report-finds-climate-change-already-having-broad-impact

-what's interesting is trying to understand why conservatives think scientists would need to make this up, or why, if conservatives are correct and it is natural,  it still isn't a good idea to cut down on fossil fuel use.  Or why protecting shorelines, bay communities, little islands, etc. or protecting agricultural communities worldwide, or liming extreme drought or storms, isn't worth an attempt to slow possible dramatic climate change down?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 06:22:49 PM by shnozzola »
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs

Offline median

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1848
  • Darwins +201/-16
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahweh: Obviously not obvious.
    • Talk Origins
Re: Climate Change: Just The Facts
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2014, 07:15:45 PM »
I think conservatives (and/or climate change deniers) are always in fear of anything that sounds like "big government". "Oh my god! The nanny state liberals are at it again! They're trying to tax us all up the ass until we have nothing and take away all our freedoms! They must be stopped!" This is of course in spite of any science that can be demonstrated on the subject. What's funny is the hypocrisy they live by (the double standard) since their bible says "Render unto Caesar what is Caesars" and tells them to submit themselves to the authorities because the authorities (the government) are placed there at the command of their God! [By golly, their own book says Obama is in office b/c god put him there!]

Anyways, I think it's fear, fear, fear all the way down - with a little bit of disregard for this planet and the well being of others at the same time. It's the "I will show that I care about the earth with my words but not with my actions" bit. And they call themselves followers of Christ and the doctrines of the bible. Hogwash.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline LoriPinkAngel

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1236
  • Darwins +127/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm Your Nurse, Not Your Waitress...
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Climate Change: Just The Facts
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 04:23:43 PM »
In the last couple of days, science has come out with a warning about the West Antarctica Ice Sheet.  Here is Thomas Wagner, who runs NASA's program that deals with studying polar ice.  Remember, Thomas Wagner is neither running for office or hosting a conservative talk show.  He is a scientist who studies polar ice.  My guess is he has an expertise in this, and gets paid no matter what he says.  For cynics, we can only hope he has no evil super hero agenda concerning rebuilding coastal areas.
Quote
“It’s not that there’s absolutely nothing that can be done. There’s a couple of things. One, people have to understand that this is part of sea level rise, and sea level rise is caused by warming, and so there’s plenty we can do about that. But what I also would really like people to understand is this: the planet is not just changing; it is changed. And we’re already seeing impacts of sea level rise all the way up and down the eastern seaboard of the U.S., and we probably need to plan for more of that. But on top of that, worldwide, we need to understand that low-lying countries — say, like, Bangladesh — just a foot and a half of sea level rise will displace 11 million people, and we have to plan for these kinds of changes.

It's sort of like this - If you drive around the U.S. these days, while Rand Paul/ Ted Cruze/ Sarah Palin  - tea party types - decry government and taxes and spending, you will notice states and the federal government have started rebuilding bridges everwhere.

At one point Wagner gets asked if global climate change is human induced (5:25), and he says "oh yes," and moves on to what needs to be done.

Let's say science is wrong, and we waste money and time worldwide preparing for 5 - 10 ft higher seas. What if science is right?  What is the risk?  What if nuclear power plants along coasts move their generators way up the hill?

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/05/13/polar-ice-melting
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 04:27:17 PM by shnozzola »
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6710
  • Darwins +534/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: Climate Change: Just The Facts
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2014, 10:56:02 AM »
Is it a coincidence that fossil fuels have begun to run out at the same time that global warming suggests that humans should move away from fossil fuels.

If you were a government and wished to lower your dependence of fossil fuels (which will become increasingly expensive and rare) would it be an idea to show the effects of humans burning fossil fuels?

If fossil fuels were unlikely to run out, would there be any incentive to look for alternative supplies/sources? Would another reason have to be given?

The strange thing is that nobody knows how warm the earth should be, yet we know of hot and cold periods in earth's history.


Did a lack of burning fossil fuels cause the Little Ice Age in the 16th century?


We see rises and falls - how long is a rise or fall and what caused a reversal of either?

Is correlation a demonstration of causation?

Quote
Henderson asserts that a decline in the number of pirates over the years is the cause of global warming.
Flying Spaghetti MonsterWiki

The above are just some of the questions to be addressed.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline shnozzola

Re: Climate Change: Just The Facts
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2014, 08:18:32 PM »
Quote
Is it a coincidence that fossil fuels have begun to run out at the same time that global warming suggests that humans should move away from fossil fuels.
IMO, doubtful.

Quote
If you were a government and wished to lower your dependence of fossil fuels (which will become increasingly expensive and rare) would it be an idea to show the effects of humans burning fossil fuels?
Yes.

Quote
If fossil fuels were unlikely to run out, would there be any incentive to look for alternative supplies/sources?
Yes, humanity trying to prevent coastal and bay flooding, if we are able to slow it down.

Quote
Did a lack of burning fossil fuels cause the Little Ice Age in the 16th century?
We see rises and falls - how long is a rise or fall and what caused a reversal of either?

Of course we have and will continue to have rises and falls.  Climate change happens for all kinds of reasons.   What if the possible huge Yellowstone volcano starts anytime, blankets the world in soot, and changes the climate quickly?  What if we can't stop a collision with an asteroid?  The question is - is it worth trying to prevent the possibility of rising sea levels.  In the 16th century Britain or Spain or Portugal wouldn't have had the knowledge or ability to help Bangledesh, if, say, a 16th century heating would have occurred instead of a mini ice age.
And yes, I remember reading the crazy possible correlations with global warmings.

Here's some links, remembering everyone has their angle.

http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0423
Quote
The latest measurements confirm that the world's oil and natural gas supplies are running out too fast. At some time between 2010 and 2020 the world's supply of oil and gas will fall below the level required to meet international demand.

The US government is aware that we are about to endure a disastrous international energy shortage. According to Dr James McKenzie, a senior member of the climate change programme at the World Resources Institute in Washington, USA: "That's why we went to war in Iraq."

http://www.eco-info.net/fossil-fuel-depletion.html

Quote
In 2009 proved reserves were estimated as follows with that year’s fuel consumption in mind:
• Oil: 46 years (depleted in 2055)
• Natural gas: 63 years (depleted in 2072)
• Coal: 119 years (depleted in 2128)
Fortunately, besides proven reserves there are still ‘probable’ and ‘discovered’ reserves. These may become a part of future ‘proven reserves’ as new technology becomes available. Therefore it’s possible that oil will last for another 100 years or maybe even more. The same can be said about gas and coal.
http://www.adventuresinenergy.org/What-are-Oil-and-Natural-Gas/Will-We-Run-Out.html
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs