Author Topic: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve  (Read 1307 times)

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Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2014, 10:13:32 AM »
Patience and tolerance is not a christian virtue it is a human one.

To be fair, I don't believe he was stating that patience and tolerance are exclusively Christian virtues. Not to put words in OCG's mouth, but I think he was simply trying to convey that from his experience, we (for the most part) on this Forum have shown him more respect for his differing viewpoints on religious matters than he might have received on pro-religious sites. :)
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2014, 10:46:38 AM »
Patience and tolerance is not a christian virtue it is a human one.

To be fair, I don't believe he was stating that patience and tolerance are exclusively Christian virtues. Not to put words in OCG's mouth, but I think he was simply trying to convey that from his experience, we (for the most part) on this Forum have shown him more respect for his differing viewpoints on religious matters than he might have received on pro-religious sites. :)

Atheist as well as Christians have their issues.  I was banned after only a few days from The Happy Atheist forum.  They were not very Happy.  They were mean and whinny.  There are mean atheist here.  There are mean Christians there.  There are nice atheist here and nice Christians there. 

Funny how two people interpret the same words differently. ;) 

I would have really appreciated it if you had let OCG explain himself.  :P Oh well.  No need to respond now OCG.


 
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Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2014, 10:59:55 AM »
Patience and tolerance is not a christian virtue it is a human one.

To be fair, I don't believe he was stating that patience and tolerance are exclusively Christian virtues. Not to put words in OCG's mouth, but I think he was simply trying to convey that from his experience, we (for the most part) on this Forum have shown him more respect for his differing viewpoints on religious matters than he might have received on pro-religious sites. :)

Atheist as well as Christians have their issues.  I was banned after only a few days from The Happy Atheist forum.  They were not very Happy.  They were mean and whinny.  There are mean atheist here.  There are mean Christians there.  There are nice atheist here and nice Christians there. 

Funny how two people interpret the same words differently. ;) 

I would have really appreciated it if you had let OCG explain himself.  :P Oh well.  No need to respond now OCG.

Perhaps I should have waited for him to respond first. The reason I had felt the need to chime in was due to the fact that OCG and I have been PMing each other the past, few days, and it may have been partially due to my encouragement that he post what I felt was his sincere "patience and tolerance" opinion, which he himself had been concerned might have been taken the wrong way. So, I kind of felt responsible when you responded the way you did, which lead me to defend him. :-\

I'm sorry for butting in.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2014, 11:30:48 AM »
Patience and tolerance is not a christian virtue it is a human one.

To be fair, I don't believe he was stating that patience and tolerance are exclusively Christian virtues. Not to put words in OCG's mouth, but I think he was simply trying to convey that from his experience, we (for the most part) on this Forum have shown him more respect for his differing viewpoints on religious matters than he might have received on pro-religious sites. :)

Atheist as well as Christians have their issues.  I was banned after only a few days from The Happy Atheist forum.  They were not very Happy.  They were mean and whinny.  There are mean atheist here.  There are mean Christians there.  There are nice atheist here and nice Christians there. 

Funny how two people interpret the same words differently. ;) 

I would have really appreciated it if you had let OCG explain himself.  :P Oh well.  No need to respond now OCG.

Perhaps I should have waited for him to respond first. The reason I had felt the need to chime in was due to the fact that OCG and I have been PMing each other the past, few days, and it may have been partially due to my encouragement that he post what I felt was his sincere "patience and tolerance" opinion, which he himself had been concerned might have been taken the wrong way. So, I kind of felt responsible when you responded the way you did, which lead me to defend him. :-\

I'm sorry for butting in.

It's okay. :)
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2014, 12:24:44 PM »
Patience and tolerance is not a christian virtue it is a human one.

To be fair, I don't believe he was stating that patience and tolerance are exclusively Christian virtues. Not to put words in OCG's mouth, but I think he was simply trying to convey that from his experience, we (for the most part) on this Forum have shown him more respect for his differing viewpoints on religious matters than he might have received on pro-religious sites. :)

You took the words right off my keyboard.  Exactly what I was trying to convey.

With deepest thanks,

OldChurchGuy
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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2014, 01:25:50 PM »
Patience and tolerance is not a christian virtue it is a human one.

To be fair, I don't believe he was stating that patience and tolerance are exclusively Christian virtues. Not to put words in OCG's mouth, but I think he was simply trying to convey that from his experience, we (for the most part) on this Forum have shown him more respect for his differing viewpoints on religious matters than he might have received on pro-religious sites. :)

I recommended my mother to a few Christian websites that are accepting to all Christian denominations but to be careful because some of them will only permit some Christians in certain areas mainly dealing with their own denomination, and also to try not to say anything negative toward, or have a different interpretation to a certain aspect of the Bible and Christianity as a whole or they'll ban you or restrict you so much it's pretty much like being banned.

She didn't believe me, so I told her to join one and do that, and a month later she told me she had free reign on (I forget the site, I'd have to ask her) and she was restricted to only one area. She told me that they told her that she broke a rule in inciting a fight (argument). She found it ridiculous.

Most Christians are only welcoming, it seems, to their own brand of Christianity.

-Nam
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Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline junebug72

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2014, 03:46:03 PM »
Patience and tolerance is not a christian virtue it is a human one.

To be fair, I don't believe he was stating that patience and tolerance are exclusively Christian virtues. Not to put words in OCG's mouth, but I think he was simply trying to convey that from his experience, we (for the most part) on this Forum have shown him more respect for his differing viewpoints on religious matters than he might have received on pro-religious sites. :)

You took the words right off my keyboard.  Exactly what I was trying to convey.

With deepest thanks,

OldChurchGuy

So what you meant to say is that atheist and Christians are both patient and tolerant or that atheist are more tolerant than Christians.  I can provide evidence to the contraire of the latter :?

I am glad I am neither an atheist or a religious person.  That is freedom my fellow humans. ;)

I took it to mean that atheist are better at being Christian than Christians are. 

I'm really confused right now. :P

The most tolerant people that I have encountered are spiritual not religious.





Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2014, 04:20:21 PM »
Quote
So what you meant to say is that atheist and Christians are both patient and tolerant or that atheist are more tolerant than Christians.  I can provide evidence to the contraire of the latter :?

I am glad I am neither an atheist or a religious person.  That is freedom my fellow humans. ;)

I took it to mean that atheist are better at being Christian than Christians are. 

I'm really confused right now. :P

The most tolerant people that I have encountered are spiritual not religious.

What I am trying to say (and apparently am not doing a very good job) is that the vast majority of people on this website do a much better job of exhibitng those virtues most Christians hold near and dear (patience, tolerance, acceptance) than the Christians I have encountered on other websites. 

At no point am I saying these virtues (or any other) are the monopoly of Christians. 

Hopeful I am no muddying the waters I remain,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2014, 04:29:39 PM »

LOL! Thanks for the reply.

I was banned awhile back, so I don't think I will be replying to any of them. I still like to read their threads from time to time.

I was also banned from ChristianForums.com.
They probably didn't like my style of posting. It seems that they deleted all of my posts. The only trace of me exists in someone's quoting of one of my posts:

I don't know the reason you were banned. But, I will tell you that they might get annoyed if people are coming in to start arguments. It is supposed to be a Christian site devoted to Christians conversing with one another in peace.

Think about a football forum. If people who did not like football kept going on the site and making threads about how much football sucks, they might get banned too because it's just to start fights and arguments. Why come to a football forum if you don't like football?

Likewise, why go to a Christian forum if you don't like Christianity?

I enjoyed my time at .net because I could engage with many real Christians. It feels good when you are pretty confident that the person on the other end of the conversation is really a Christian and not some obnoxious troll who might not even be a Christian.

After I got banned from .net, I was reading some threads on .com and noticed that they didn't censor as much as .net. There were some atheists on there who seemed to be free to hammer home some points. So, I went in there with "all atheist guns blazing" and got banned from there too.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2014, 06:21:38 AM »
Quote
So what you meant to say is that atheist and Christians are both patient and tolerant or that atheist are more tolerant than Christians.  I can provide evidence to the contraire of the latter :?

I am glad I am neither an atheist or a religious person.  That is freedom my fellow humans. ;)

I took it to mean that atheist are better at being Christian than Christians are. 

I'm really confused right now. :P

The most tolerant people that I have encountered are spiritual not religious.

What I am trying to say (and apparently am not doing a very good job) is that the vast majority of people on this website do a much better job of exhibitng those virtues most Christians hold near and dear (patience, tolerance, acceptance) than the Christians I have encountered on other websites. 

At no point am I saying these virtues (or any other) are the monopoly of Christians. 

Hopeful I am no muddying the waters I remain,

OldChurchGuy

Well I think you should do some research before giving the atheist the win.  Like I said I got banned for just showing up on an atheist website.  They thought I was a sock puppet lol.  There is plenty of intolerance right here at WWGHA.  There is good and bad in both parties.  It does seem to be getting better here.  Don't get me wrong I am still against religion. 

At least you get treated well.  Try convincing them God exists and you will find less tolerance.  Yes as long as you don't defend your beliefs here you will be fine. 

I don't think all Christians hold those virtues near and dear.  If they did I would not be giving all I have to eliminate it.

The most tolerant people I know are spiritual not religious and not atheist.  These folks care about the planet and other humans.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2014, 06:25:24 AM »

LOL! Thanks for the reply.

I was banned awhile back, so I don't think I will be replying to any of them. I still like to read their threads from time to time.

I was also banned from ChristianForums.com.
They probably didn't like my style of posting. It seems that they deleted all of my posts. The only trace of me exists in someone's quoting of one of my posts:

I don't know the reason you were banned. But, I will tell you that they might get annoyed if people are coming in to start arguments. It is supposed to be a Christian site devoted to Christians conversing with one another in peace.

Think about a football forum. If people who did not like football kept going on the site and making threads about how much football sucks, they might get banned too because it's just to start fights and arguments. Why come to a football forum if you don't like football?

Likewise, why go to a Christian forum if you don't like Christianity?

I enjoyed my time at .net because I could engage with many real Christians. It feels good when you are pretty confident that the person on the other end of the conversation is really a Christian and not some obnoxious troll who might not even be a Christian.

After I got banned from .net, I was reading some threads on .com and noticed that they didn't censor as much as .net. There were some atheists on there who seemed to be free to hammer home some points. So, I went in there with "all atheist guns blazing" and got banned from there too.

Your also being watched on this atheist website Lots.  Maybe it has something to do with your people skills.  If you sling that "f" word around a Christian website like you do here I'm sure you did get banned for breaking the rules.  No different than banning a Christian here for preaching.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2014, 10:34:51 AM »
Most Christians are only welcoming, it seems, to their own brand of Christianity.

-Nam

It's not only not surprising, but completely understandable when you factor in the believer's eternal soul being at stake. Even a relatively minor disagreement over Biblical interpretation can be enough to create friction between different denominations. And if the disagreement is on major issues... well, they tend to get along just like elitist, self-absorbed four-legged furballs and dogs. ;)

On a similar note, I've always found interfaith ceremonies amusing. While outwardly they are all preaching love, compassion and unity, I cannot help but wonder while gazing at the other representatives if internally they are thinking to themselves "Poor, misguided souls. They are all following false religions".
The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2014, 12:31:26 PM »
Most Christians are only welcoming, it seems, to their own brand of Christianity.

-Nam

It's not only not surprising, but completely understandable when you factor in the believer's eternal soul being at stake. Even a relatively minor disagreement over Biblical interpretation can be enough to create friction between different denominations. And if the disagreement is on major issues... well, they tend to get along just like elitist, self-absorbed four-legged furballs and dogs. ;)

On a similar note, I've always found interfaith ceremonies amusing. While outwardly they are all preaching love, compassion and unity, I cannot help but wonder while gazing at the other representatives if internally they are thinking to themselves "Poor, misguided souls. They are all following false religions".
How can that be true? The only true path as the denominations(all of them) see it is through a belief in Christ. That is easy enough,isn't it?

 Don't you love through the ages as followers of one religion hijack it,change a few things and make it their own. The Jews are still waiting for the REAL Messiah,while the Christians hijack Judaism and re-brand it as new and improved. Now complete with heaven
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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2014, 12:42:39 PM »
Don't forget hell.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2014, 12:51:47 PM »
How can that be true? The only true path as the denominations(all of them) see it is through a belief in Christ. That is easy enough,isn't it?

If I may demonstrate how I would have stated your point:

That is easy enough, isn't it? :) Isn't it...? :-\

 ;)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 12:55:04 PM by Disciple of Sagan »
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2014, 12:57:24 PM »
Most Christians are only welcoming, it seems, to their own brand of Christianity.

-Nam

It's not only not surprising, but completely understandable when you factor in the believer's eternal soul being at stake. Even a relatively minor disagreement over Biblical interpretation can be enough to create friction between different denominations. And if the disagreement is on major issues... well, they tend to get along just like elitist, self-absorbed four-legged furballs and dogs. ;)

On a similar note, I've always found interfaith ceremonies amusing. While outwardly they are all preaching love, compassion and unity, I cannot help but wonder while gazing at the other representatives if internally they are thinking to themselves "Poor, misguided souls. They are all following false religions".

But remember that you guys (atheists) believe everyone else is wrong and only YOU (atheists) are right.

How is that different from Christians thinking everyone else is wrong?

I find that many things atheists accuse Christians of being, atheists are those things themselves.

Atheists say that Christians are intolerant bigots, yet atheists are intolerant and bigoted of Christians.

It's like that Richard Dawkins meme on the internet with the picture of his face and the caption says, "Calls for tolerance, yet hates Christians."

Or the other meme that says, "Says that Christian camps for children are brainwashing the youth, yet calls for science camps to be open for children."
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 01:10:44 PM by skeptic54768 »
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2014, 02:02:10 PM »
Applying the same logic as above, why are you and I and other theists involved with an atheist web site?

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

Yes, good question OCG.

It was my impression that this is not an atheistic website. It is a website that asks, "Why won't God heal amputees?" This is INVITING theists here to explain.

But, suppose it was a purely atheistic website just for atheists to gather. Well, we have a demand by Jesus to go and make disciples of all people. We are commanded to share the faith and get people to believe and experience the joys of Heaven. Atheists have no command by anyone to force Christians to be atheists, so that is why I wonder why they do it.

I do wonder why, if they truly believe this is the only life we get, that they spend every day arguing with theists about something they don't even think exists instead of getting out there and enjoying life. It seems like a waste of time for atheists to get involved with.

For example, I don't believe in alien abductions. But, I will never go on an alien forum where people talk about that stuff and believe that stuff because it would be a waste of my time. What would I get out of going there and arguing with them about how I think aliens aren't real?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 02:07:02 PM by skeptic54768 »
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline natlegend

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2014, 12:22:39 AM »

But remember that you guys (atheists) believe everyone else is wrong and only YOU (atheists) are right.

How is that different from Christians thinking everyone else is wrong?

I find that many things atheists accuse Christians of being, atheists are those things themselves.

Atheists say that Christians are intolerant bigots, yet atheists are intolerant and bigoted of Christians.

Ah, but you won't find WWGHA banning theists for giving honest, straight forward, answers that contain evidence. See the difference? You can't just point to the bible here and expect everyone to agree with you, it doesn't work that way.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2014, 12:43:01 AM »
Atheists have no command by anyone to force Christians to be atheists, so that is why I wonder why they do it.

It's a bit like listening to a right wing blogger, and thinking "imagine if he got his way".
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2014, 09:16:07 PM »
But remember that you guys (atheists) believe everyone else is wrong and only YOU (atheists) are right.

That's quite the blanket statement you've got going on there.

I, for one, while basing my non-belief on all available evidence (or lack thereof) in relation to God(s) existence, I do not nor have I ever declared "I am right, you (theists) are wrong." I have enough intellectual honesty to admit that I could be proven wrong should definitive proof (about any God(s) existing) be provided in the future. Can you say the same? Can you confess that you might be wrong in regards to your God as described in your Bible actually existing?

Quote
How is that different from Christians thinking everyone else is wrong?

I find that many things atheists accuse Christians of being, atheists are those things themselves.

Atheists say that Christians are intolerant bigots, yet atheists are intolerant and bigoted of Christians.

Again with the blanket statements. I'm genuinely baffled on how you reached these conclusions based on what I had posted. Please point out anywhere in my post you have referenced where I either agree or disagree with your comments.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 09:17:55 PM by Disciple of Sagan »
The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2014, 10:18:24 PM »
That's quite the blanket statement you've got going on there.

Blanket trolling that still got through moderation.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2014, 10:43:12 PM »
Atheists have no command by anyone to force Christians to be atheists, so that is why I wonder why they do it.

It's a bit like listening to a right wing blogger, and thinking "imagine if he got his way".

I would have totally missed his statement had you not pointed it out.

"Force"? Really? Has anyone here on the Forum (or in the world in general) attempted to force you or any other theist that posts here to give up your faith? Question it, yes. Force you to renounce Christianity? Evidence, please. And just to ensure you do not attempt to go off on a tangent, I am specifically addressing your claim that atheists are out to personally deconvert you or any other Christian for that matter.
The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2014, 11:49:40 PM »
I would have totally missed his statement had you not pointed it out.

"Force"? Really? Has anyone here on the Forum (or in the world in general) attempted to force you or any other theist that posts here to give up your faith? Question it, yes. Force you to renounce Christianity? Evidence, please. And just to ensure you do not attempt to go off on a tangent, I am specifically addressing your claim that atheists are out to personally deconvert you or any other Christian for that matter.

We don't force either. We just want you to question atheism. Any evidence of anyone on this forum FORCING you guys to convert? Anyone who forces someone to convert is not understanding Jesus' message.

So I wonder why Christianity gets such a bad rap by atheists when we don't force either. No one puts guns to your heads.

Small typo corrected
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« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 03:50:39 AM by Graybeard »
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2014, 03:48:55 AM »
It was my impression that this is not an atheistic website. It is a website that asks, "Why won't God heal amputees?" This is INVITING theists here to explain.
I think it gives a chance for theists to explain what it is about religion that convinces them that its basic tenet “There is a god and that God is the Judeo-Christian one, Who has the interests of humanity at His core.” in the face of evidence to the contrary.

This can be expanded by reference to what is known about the concept of God and how what is known equates with what we actually know about society and the world.

The website from which the majority arrive has videos that present a good case against there being a god of any sort at all.

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But, suppose it was a purely atheistic website just for atheists to gather. Well, we have a demand by Jesus to go and make disciples of all people. We are commanded to share the faith and get people to believe and experience the joys of Heaven.
I do hope you are not trying to have us “experience the joys of Heaven[1]”, as I understand it, that is only possible when one is dead.

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Atheists have no command by anyone to force Christians to be atheists, so that is why I wonder why they do it.
Well, first of all I could issue the command with as much authority as your command was given but your argument is a little confused. I assume that although the OT does approve of forced conversion, the NT seems to reject this approach in place of persuasion – the carrot and the stick, so you are not forcing anyone to do anything, and neither are we.

Atheists are just like many other humans and animals: they see one of their kind struggling and feel as if they should help. We want people to take on a reasonable breadth of thinking. We find that society is far from perfect and what holds it back must be lack of knowledge.

You cannot have lived your life so far without having heard someone say, “We are looking for a cure for <insert some terrible disease>” or “We are hoping to find a solution to the crisis in <insert country>”or “If we knew out history and more about ourselves, we would be able to operate better.”

We atheists, who contribute here and on other sites, may not have the immediate answer to either. However, it is those dogmatic Christians, such as yourself, whose first reaction to cures and solutions always involves your God – a god for whom all evidence is lacking.

In Christian theory, we get what we deserved at the hands of a God we do not and cannot understand and should hold the belief that whatever happens is the will of that god who has our interests at heart.

Over the millennia, we have given that god every chance to provide the cure for this or that disease and to resolve the crisis in this or that country. We atheists really do want these solutions. However, those of the dogmatic Christian mindset would have us reject and oppose solutions that occurred after the 17th century and instead[2], rely upon prayers to a god for whom, by our experience, all evidence of his presence is lacking. We have concluded: the best we could say is that if there is a God, then He lost interest in us immediately after creation as He has not helped us at all.

Now, if, like the Amish, you reject the modern world and live a life independent of it, then that is fine. You can believe what you want. However, there is some hypocrisy in rejecting the parts of useful knowledge that you do not like (or you think your god does not like) and telling others to reject it too. If what you want to do is to make all of society revert to 17th century thought and knowledge, then you are doing a disservice to all of mankind in the name of a god for whom there is no evidence: we see this as wrong.

Think of the structure of any Church: is a theocracy what you really want? Do you want, for example, to be governed absolutely by the pope, or the head shaman of the Mormons? These people believe that they have the answers to life, the universe and everything and that answer is “God”. They don’t need your consent and their god will fix everything without the need for man to interfere or progress or know any more than he did 400 years ago.
Indeed, should you oppose a theocracy, you become "An Enemy of God." and are punished - that always happens.

Religious fanatics and unthinking, whilst their power is small in number, are not a problem: a liberal society copes with the broadest spectrum of different thought, and that is fine. But like Iran, Yemen, Saudi, etc. one size (my size) fits all does not work and never has.

As I am not American, I can say that the world is dismayed by the power that the religious wield in the US, and as America is a world power, this now affects us all. It is people like you who believe you have the answers, and you worry us. It is clear that you do not have the answers, but By God! You are convinced you do... and convinced without evidence, thought or logic.

It is clear that you do not even ask the questions necessary to solve problems: you explain success by your God (“You had faith.”) and failure by your God (“You did not have faith.”) You explain good fortune by your God (“It was a miracle he was saved!”) and disaster by your God (“God punished him.” or “God is testing his faith!” or “God does not give us more than we can bear.” And “God is strengthening his character!” and "It was his time!")

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I do wonder why, if they truly believe this is the only life we get, that they spend every day arguing with theists about something they don't even think exists instead of getting out there and enjoying life.
Typically, you do not think beyond the obvious. As you are commanded to spread darkness and ignorance; we serve society by moderating your influence. If you were not there, we would not be either.

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For example, I don't believe in alien abductions. But, I will never go on an alien forum where people talk about that stuff and believe that stuff because it would be a waste of my time. What would I get out of going there and arguing with them about how I think aliens aren't real?
If a group of alien abductionists started to have a massive influence in the running of your life: telling you what you can do and what you can’t do. How your children will be brought up and how your life will be conducted and how they will do your thinking for you, what would be your reaction? Might you start a site to combat this ignorance? Might you contribute?
 1. Something for which you have absolutely no evidence
 2. Make no mistake, those who follow Islam or Judaism at a fundamental level have the same objections but their knowledge stopped around the 13th century.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2014, 08:12:38 AM »
We don't force either. We just want you to question atheism. Any evidence of anyone on this forum FORCING you guys to convert? Anyone who forces someone to convert is not understanding Jesus' message.

You are setting up a strawman argument. You are asking me to provide evidence for something I never claimed happened. Do not play these games with me.

You have made the blatant accusation of atheists using force to covert Christians to atheism. Your words. Either provide evidence to back up your claim, or do the intellectually honest thing and renounce it.

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So I wonder why Christianity gets such a bad rap by atheists when we don't force either. No one puts guns to your heads.

Christianity's "bad rap" is for a myriad of reasons. I am sure you are already well aware of what they are from your time spent here.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 08:18:39 AM by Disciple of Sagan »
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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2014, 08:20:38 AM »
If a group of alien abductionists started to have a massive influence in the running of your life: telling you what you can do and what you can’t do. How your children will be brought up and how your life will be conducted and how they will do your thinking for you, what would be your reaction? Might you start a site to combat this ignorance? Might you contribute?

Luckily, alien abduction enthusiasts are limited by the rate that aliens need to stick anal probes up people. This is a rate that cannot be forced by introducing it into science classes.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2014, 08:43:20 AM »
Luckily, alien abduction enthusiasts are limited by the rate that aliens need to stick anal probes up people. This is a rate that cannot be forced by introducing it into science classes.

To my shame, the first thing to pop in to my mind upon reading this was Mr. Slave from South Park saying "Ooh, this sounds like it could be fun."
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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2014, 09:51:22 AM »
I thought mainly of the first episode of Southpark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartman_Gets_an_Anal_Probe.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: Christians Are Apparently The Only Ones Who Can Honestly Disbelieve
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2014, 09:58:03 AM »
I thought mainly of the first episode of Southpark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartman_Gets_an_Anal_Probe.

...Which really says something about how my mind works. :-[

 :)
The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

The only thing bigger than the universe is humanity's collective sense of self-importance.