Author Topic: How to remain Christian  (Read 4094 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2726
  • Darwins +53/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2014, 02:41:27 PM »
Whether born "that way" or not, the people who think it is wrong to be gay will still find a way to discriminate. Haters gonna hate, as the kids say. Since social pressure has started to lift and gays are becoming more accepted, anti-gay people are having to face up to what it is they are really afraid of.

it is not a natural way of life. God says that it is wrong.

Think of this example: If you knew of a brother and sister that had sex, or a mother and son or a father and daughter, you would probably report it to the police. But why? Aren't they consenting adults not bothering anyone? You may also think it's weird, disgusting, and disturbing.

When you know why you would report this and find it distasteful, then you know why God finds gays distasteful.

There's also this common theme among atheists that "Christians hate gays!" This couldn't be further from the truth. Christians love gays and want them to repent of their sins so they can go to Heaven and enjoy it!

If we truly hated gays we would say, "Keep partaking in it. Have sex with any guy you want and go to Hell. We don't care about you. We want you in Hell."
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 02:48:32 PM by skeptic54768 »
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online Jag

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1867
  • Darwins +196/-7
  • Gender: Female
  • Official WWGHA Harpy, Ex-rosary squad
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2014, 03:21:27 PM »
>snip<
It took me a while, but nowadays I have learned to (with the exception of wastes of oxygen like the Phelps clan) "love the sinner Christian, hate the sin archaic, judgmental, and ofttimes barbaric belief system they adhere to".


Trying. So. Hard. To. Get. Here......

I can learn to manage this. I need to learn to manage this - I can't be effective if I can't speak to them. I can continue to fight for the Separation of Church and State while not taking out my resentment at needing to do so on individual theists - I can even learn to explain why I think it's so crucial without losing my temper.

I'm minoring in relational conflict management - if that doesn't do it, nothing else will.

I need to master the phrase "how do you see that working out?" to roll effortlessly off the tongue with no sarcastic tone of voice. This semester I bashed on anti-choice advocates and science deniers in my performance class, and my instructor assures me that my contempt for my targets was well disguised in both live performances. If I can do that, I can do this.

(Sigh. Don't mind me, I'm apparently just cheering myself on - finals next week, and I'm damn tired. Just 5 more weeks then I get an entire week off.... I'm sincerely hoping for sunshine - it fricking snowed here yesterday. I almost burst into tears at the bus stop in the morning, lol - it was melting as soon as it landed but it's almost MAY for the love of light. SUNSHINE would be really, really nice for a while..... Ok, now I'm just whining.  :-X )

Liked the video, watched her other two as well. I hope to see more of this young woman, I like her style.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline OldChurchGuy

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1555
  • Darwins +102/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • One of those theists who enjoys exchanging ideas
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2014, 03:31:50 PM »
Whether born "that way" or not, the people who think it is wrong to be gay will still find a way to discriminate. Haters gonna hate, as the kids say. Since social pressure has started to lift and gays are becoming more accepted, anti-gay people are having to face up to what it is they are really afraid of.

My guess is the underlying fear is change.  I think all of us have a tolerance for change; it is simply a matter of degree.  With change comes uncertainty and, depending on the person, that uncertainty can be negligible or major. 

My two cents worth,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Online skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2726
  • Darwins +53/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2014, 03:53:48 PM »
Whether born "that way" or not, the people who think it is wrong to be gay will still find a way to discriminate. Haters gonna hate, as the kids say. Since social pressure has started to lift and gays are becoming more accepted, anti-gay people are having to face up to what it is they are really afraid of.

My guess is the underlying fear is change.  I think all of us have a tolerance for change; it is simply a matter of degree.  With change comes uncertainty and, depending on the person, that uncertainty can be negligible or major. 

My two cents worth,

OldChurchGuy

But as atheists have told us, "It doesn't matter how many people believe something, it can still be wrong."

So even if everyone on the planet thought it was OK to be gay/incestuous/bestiality, that doesn't make it true. The one person who thinks it's wrong could be right.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6866
  • Darwins +925/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2014, 04:42:05 PM »
Incest between adults who both are consenting is weird, and makes me feel icky. But as long as no children are involved, I would not report it to the police. It would be none of my business what consenting adults are doing in their bedrooms.

Is appeasing the feelings of someone not even involved icky a good basis for social policy? Some people feel icky about adults of different races or vastly different ages, or who have handicaps having sex. So what?

Why is god so sensitive as to feel icky about gays? But not so sensitive as to feel icky about rape, slavery or child abuse? There are no bible verse condemning any of those-- some verses actually regulate, approve or encourage those practices. Maybe god needs to get a grip, get his mind out of people's bedrooms, and focus on what is really important. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2726
  • Darwins +53/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2014, 04:54:32 PM »
Incest between adults who both are consenting is weird, and makes me feel icky. But as long as no children are involved, I would not report it to the police. It would be none of my business what consenting adults are doing in their bedrooms.

Is appeasing the feelings of someone not even involved icky a good basis for social policy? Some people feel icky about adults of different races or vastly different ages, or who have handicaps having sex. So what?

So you would let consenting adults who were incestuous to continue to be incestuous? And you guys wonder why we theists wonder about your morals?

What if you saw someone having sex with a goat and the goat appeared to enjoy it? Report it or not? If you report it, who is it harming? Certainly not the goat nor the human.

What if you saw someone having sex with a dead corpse? Would you report it? If you report it, who is it harming? Certainly not the dead bag of flesh on the table.

Why is god so sensitive as to feel icky about gays? But not so sensitive as to feel icky about rape, slavery or child abuse? There are no bible verse condemning any of those-- some verses actually regulate, approve or encourage those practices. Maybe god needs to get a grip, get his mind out of people's bedrooms, and focus on what is really important. &)

Rape, slavery, and child abuse are covered in commandments 8 & 10: Do not steal and do not covet.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 04:56:19 PM by skeptic54768 »
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Eddie Schultz

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • Darwins +5/-0
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2014, 05:29:56 PM »
Why is god so sensitive as to feel icky about gays? But not so sensitive as to feel icky about rape, slavery or child abuse? There are no bible verse condemning any of those-- some verses actually regulate, approve or encourage those practices. Maybe god needs to get a grip, get his mind out of people's bedrooms, and focus on what is really important. &)

On that note, I haven't seen one Christian on this forum prove their god exists, and was the inspiration for any bible. So why do they claim to KNOW what their god likes and dislikes, approves and disapproves?

As Tracie says on "The Atheist Experience", callers who mention a god, she asks them to first define the god they're talking about, then they can go from there. There are just so many, but it's usually the one and only, very unique god that created everything as we see it today. The one who loves us all so much, he sent his self to die for us. Is that god really unique?

"Added a paragraph"
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 05:40:40 PM by Eddie Schultz »

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2185
  • Darwins +73/-88
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2014, 07:49:45 AM »
Whether born "that way" or not, the people who think it is wrong to be gay will still find a way to discriminate. Haters gonna hate, as the kids say. Since social pressure has started to lift and gays are becoming more accepted, anti-gay people are having to face up to what it is they are really afraid of.

it is not a natural way of life. God says that it is wrong.

Think of this example: If you knew of a brother and sister that had sex, or a mother and son or a father and daughter, you would probably report it to the police. But why? Aren't they consenting adults not bothering anyone? You may also think it's weird, disgusting, and disturbing.

When you know why you would report this and find it distasteful, then you know why God finds gays distasteful.

There's also this common theme among atheists that "Christians hate gays!" This couldn't be further from the truth. Christians love gays and want them to repent of their sins so they can go to Heaven and enjoy it!

If we truly hated gays we would say, "Keep partaking in it. Have sex with any guy you want and go to Hell. We don't care about you. We want you in Hell."

Skeptic,

Being gay is not incest and I resent the comparison.

Incest seems to be okay with your bible.  Remember Lot and his two daughters.  The bible claims only 1 man 1 woman was made.  No other way to populate the earth but through incest. 

I've always heard black people came from Cain when he got sent to the land of NOD after he killed Able, I don't believe it; but.  How does that make you feel as a black man?

Please explain how the bible explains why you are black and why there are different races.  The bible made it okay to call your people animals and enslave them.  That's 1 of the reasons the bible disgusts me so much.  The whole slavery thing, the witch burnings, the murders of so many, so so many...

Anyway according to the bible we all commit incest because we are all related to Adam and Eve therefor related to each other.  Gag me with a spoon!!!

Calling gays sinners implying an eternity of torture is very HATEFUL.  Do you really think I would remain a lesbian if I believed this was true?  I would have to be celibate because for some reason it feels "unnatural" to have a man touch me.

I think if there is a Jesus Christ he gave his life so people like you would learn the lesson of how NOT to throw stones.  Words are sharper than stones!!!

I would really like to share my personal story with you Skep.  Maybe then you can understand how hurtful it is when you say that being gay is a sin punishable by hell.  This belief causes gay suicides. 

I am lesbian.  I took a survey on FB not long ago.  Shortly after the Phil Robertson comment that is similar to yours here.  Even my fundy relatives could not tell me I was going to hell.  They said there was no way God could torment such a sweet and giving person like me just for loving my partner.  She is also a very good person. I think God comforts my spirit from these words of yours.  There is a comfort in my spirit that tells me that it's going to be okay.  Just be patient a little longer.

The difference between you and I is that I believe God loves us unconditionally.  That God understands how hard it is to be human.  Therefor God's patience is unending.  I've discovered this because I was rejected from the religious.  I thought at first I was rejected by God and it hurt like no other hurt.  I wanted to die from the time I was 12 until I was in my late 20's because of.  I still have issues but I'm working on them.  I am about to be 42.  I have the comfort of the spirit within me and there is nothing you could say biblical that will ever change my mind. 8)

Is there really not a part of you that aches when you say this sort of thing or have you never realized how hurtful it is?  For the sake of mankind and the LOVE of God please try to be less cruel.  Be a part of making this world a better place instead of basking in the chaos.  Thanks!
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2014, 08:02:46 AM »
Whether born "that way" or not, the people who think it is wrong to be gay will still find a way to discriminate. Haters gonna hate, as the kids say. Since social pressure has started to lift and gays are becoming more accepted, anti-gay people are having to face up to what it is they are really afraid of.

it is not a natural way of life. God says that it is wrong.

Think of this example: If you knew of a brother and sister that had sex, or a mother and son or a father and daughter, you would probably report it to the police. But why? Aren't they consenting adults not bothering anyone? You may also think it's weird, disgusting, and disturbing.

When you know why you would report this and find it distasteful, then you know why God finds gays distasteful.

There's also this common theme among atheists that "Christians hate gays!" This couldn't be further from the truth. Christians love gays and want them to repent of their sins so they can go to Heaven and enjoy it!

If we truly hated gays we would say, "Keep partaking in it. Have sex with any guy you want and go to Hell. We don't care about you. We want you in Hell."

A common theme I have seen in many christians, is the tendency to begin to hate those who do not repent the sin de-jure.

I had a neighbor, good relationship I helped him drank beer with him.  One day he borrowed the church Back hoe and I helped him dig his pond.  For hours and hours I assisted him, we had a great time with a big hydraulic monster tearing up the earth beneath his grass.   When finished he asked if I had any projects, I thought a moment and then decided to dig a medium sized fish pond.   Also did one for my sister.  I borrowed the backhoe for about 20 or 30 minutes and brought it back said thanks that was really fun.

The next day the christian (btw his name was Christian) asked if he would see me in church.  I said no that going to church was not for me.  For 2 or 3 weeks following he got more and more aggressive in his suggestion I attend his church.  Each time I politely refused.

Eventually his apparent feelings toward me began to change, he said to me that god had allowed me to dig my ponds and that by refusing to go to church I was snubbing god.  Until he moved away, things got progressively worse as neighbors.

A good christian will inform the sinner (gays) that they are wrong, when they continually refuse to heed their advice they begin to have disdain for the person who abide by their wise advice.

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2185
  • Darwins +73/-88
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2014, 08:20:28 AM »
I'm going to have to admit that I have anger issues with religion.  I try to be empathetic and then a Christian says something stupid and my anger comes right back.  Like Joel Olsteen saying being gay is a sin. >:(  I quit following him on FB because of.  That comment by Phil Robertson, ugh.  The list goes on and on.

I can honestly say I know exactly how you are feeling, junebug. It wasn't long ago when I could not even discuss the topic of religion with a Christian without resorting to anger, scorn and contempt. The strange this was that my reaction had nothing to do with my being a lesbian... I have been extremely fortunate to have the love and support of my family and have never personally been the subject of anti-gay sentiment stemming from religious doctrine. It was more a result of seeing the negative, destructive effect Christianity (and their non-supportive, Christian friends and family members) were having on those of my GLBT friends struggling and trying to come to terms with their own issues.

It took me a while, but nowadays I have learned to (with the exception of wastes of oxygen like the Phelps clan) "love the sinner Christian, hate the sin archaic, judgmental, and ofttimes barbaric belief system they adhere to".

Quote
I think I might be gay because of my childhood abuse. I don't trust a man.  I'm not sure I was born this way.  I was always a tomboy but not all tomboys are gay.  Maybe a combination of the two.  Plus I think it was because I did not want to be a servant to a man.  I was not cherished by my father like a little girl should be.  I really believe it was a combination of things.  The relationship I observed between mom and dad was not good


I am so, so sorry to hear about your abuse. Nothing is more abhorrent in my eyes than causing harm to a child.

I also want to add that I can understand and sympathize with how you came to distrust men based on how you were treated at the hands of the one man who should have been your greatest protector and source of feeling loved in this world. I know it may be difficult sometimes, but try not to allow whomever abused you cause you to place all men in a similar light.

In regards to why you are, or feel you are gay, I do not feel it would be right for me to speculate. I have my own feelings on the nature vs. nurture debate, but either way as long as you are being true to yourself, that's all that really matters.

Quote
I met my first girlfriend right after I got pregnant with my son.  I've been gay ever since! I felt a connection to her I had never experienced with a man.

I hope the two of you continue to have true happiness together. :)

Oh don't worry I don't.  I have a son and grandson that I adore.  I loved my father he just let me down but he did the best he knew how, which wasn't much.  He was the runt of the litter.  ;D   I know a few good men. :o 

The anti gay thing is not the only reason I detest religion.  I hate the social oppression but mostly I hate what religion has done to the freedom of the mind and how it defines God as petty, angry, vain and cruel.  God should be a comfort not a burden but that's me.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2185
  • Darwins +73/-88
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2014, 08:24:31 AM »
Whether born "that way" or not, the people who think it is wrong to be gay will still find a way to discriminate. Haters gonna hate, as the kids say. Since social pressure has started to lift and gays are becoming more accepted, anti-gay people are having to face up to what it is they are really afraid of.

it is not a natural way of life. God says that it is wrong.

Think of this example: If you knew of a brother and sister that had sex, or a mother and son or a father and daughter, you would probably report it to the police. But why? Aren't they consenting adults not bothering anyone? You may also think it's weird, disgusting, and disturbing.

When you know why you would report this and find it distasteful, then you know why God finds gays distasteful.

There's also this common theme among atheists that "Christians hate gays!" This couldn't be further from the truth. Christians love gays and want them to repent of their sins so they can go to Heaven and enjoy it!

If we truly hated gays we would say, "Keep partaking in it. Have sex with any guy you want and go to Hell. We don't care about you. We want you in Hell."

A common theme I have seen in many christians, is the tendency to begin to hate those who do not repent the sin de-jure.

I had a neighbor, good relationship I helped him drank beer with him.  One day he borrowed the church Back hoe and I helped him dig his pond.  For hours and hours I assisted him, we had a great time with a big hydraulic monster tearing up the earth beneath his grass.   When finished he asked if I had any projects, I thought a moment and then decided to dig a medium sized fish pond.   Also did one for my sister.  I borrowed the backhoe for about 20 or 30 minutes and brought it back said thanks that was really fun.

The next day the christian (btw his name was Christian) asked if he would see me in church.  I said no that going to church was not for me.  For 2 or 3 weeks following he got more and more aggressive in his suggestion I attend his church.  Each time I politely refused.

Eventually his apparent feelings toward me began to change, he said to me that god had allowed me to dig my ponds and that by refusing to go to church I was snubbing god.  Until he moved away, things got progressively worse as neighbors.

A good christian will inform the sinner (gays) that they are wrong, when they continually refuse to heed their advice they begin to have disdain for the person who abide by their wise advice.

I don't get this post.  That last sentence threw me off.  Are you a "good christian" or what?   :laugh:

I think what you mean is that they are "just" trying to be good christians when they try to save souls or are they pissed off because they think other's behaviors impact their eternal life? 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2014, 09:17:10 AM »
Quote
A good christian will inform the sinner (gays) that they are wrong, when they continually refuse to heed their advice they begin to have disdain for the person who abide by their wise advice.

Perhaps worded a little ambiguous.  I know I am often guilty of that.

A good christian will strive to inform the sinner (gays) that they are wrong, however because they are weak they will often deviate from the ideal and begin to feel to disdain for the person who does not abide by their wise advice.  After several iterations of this they may decide that all gays are beyond hope and become somewhat hateful of them all as a class of people.

As for me, am I a good christian???

No I am not a christian.  Although I think I could pass muster for being a good person in a christian's eyes because I follow most of the practical ideals.  I am faithful to my wife, I am kind, I don't steal, I don't murder.  I am a little weak on the attending church thing.

In my adult life I have been to church services about 5 times maybe 10 at the outside.  During catholic marriage to my wife I was forced to attend a couple of times so my wife could have a catholic church wedding for her family.

I was amazed how cult like it all sounded.  the chants of "lord be praised" all said in unison.  The collective standing and kneeling like a precision drill team:)

Then a couple of visits to baptist church.  The church did not have a formal ordained pastor, he told bible stories on an easel.  It was facinating to watch him sketch out the bible stories as he spoke.  But shortly after that they got an ordained fire and brimstone gay hating minister and it was not fun anymore.

All in all whenever I go to a church though I feel like a hypocrite.  I cant speak my mind out of respect to the other church goers so I do not enjoy it.  I would love it if I could stand up and challeng the craziness.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 09:26:46 AM by epidemic »

Offline OldChurchGuy

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1555
  • Darwins +102/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • One of those theists who enjoys exchanging ideas
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2014, 09:57:16 AM »
Whether born "that way" or not, the people who think it is wrong to be gay will still find a way to discriminate. Haters gonna hate, as the kids say. Since social pressure has started to lift and gays are becoming more accepted, anti-gay people are having to face up to what it is they are really afraid of.

it is not a natural way of life. God says that it is wrong.

Think of this example: If you knew of a brother and sister that had sex, or a mother and son or a father and daughter, you would probably report it to the police. But why? Aren't they consenting adults not bothering anyone? You may also think it's weird, disgusting, and disturbing.

When you know why you would report this and find it distasteful, then you know why God finds gays distasteful.

There's also this common theme among atheists that "Christians hate gays!" This couldn't be further from the truth. Christians love gays and want them to repent of their sins so they can go to Heaven and enjoy it!

If we truly hated gays we would say, "Keep partaking in it. Have sex with any guy you want and go to Hell. We don't care about you. We want you in Hell."

If I understand you correctly, being gay is a choice. Correct?

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2185
  • Darwins +73/-88
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2014, 09:57:56 AM »
Quote
A good christian will inform the sinner (gays) that they are wrong, when they continually refuse to heed their advice they begin to have disdain for the person who abide by their wise advice.

Perhaps worded a little ambiguous.  I know I am often guilty of that.

A good christian will strive to inform the sinner (gays) that they are wrong, however because they are weak they will often deviate from the ideal and begin to feel to disdain for the person who does not abide by their wise advice.  After several iterations of this they may decide that all gays are beyond hope and become somewhat hateful of them all as a class of people.

As for me, am I a good christian???

No I am not a christian.  Although I think I could pass muster for being a good person in a christian's eyes because I follow most of the practical ideals.  I am faithful to my wife, I am kind, I don't steal, I don't murder.  I am a little weak on the attending church thing.

In my adult life I have been to church services about 5 times maybe 10 at the outside.  During catholic marriage to my wife I was forced to attend a couple of times so my wife could have a catholic church wedding for her family.

I was amazed how cult like it all sounded.  the chants of "lord be praised" all said in unison.  The collective standing and kneeling like a precision drill team:)

Then a couple of visits to baptist church.  The church did not have a formal ordained pastor, he told bible stories on an easel.  It was facinating to watch him sketch out the bible stories as he spoke.  But shortly after that they got an ordained fire and brimstone gay hating minister and it was not fun anymore.

All in all whenever I go to a church though I feel like a hypocrite.  I cant speak my mind out of respect to the other church goers so I do not enjoy it.  I would love it if I could stand up and challeng the craziness.

Do you think being gay is a sin?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2014, 10:51:50 AM »
Quote
A good christian will inform the sinner (gays) that they are wrong, when they continually refuse to heed their advice they begin to have disdain for the person who abide by their wise advice.

Perhaps worded a little ambiguous.  I know I am often guilty of that.

A good christian will strive to inform the sinner (gays) that they are wrong, however because they are weak they will often deviate from the ideal and begin to feel to disdain for the person who does not abide by their wise advice.  After several iterations of this they may decide that all gays are beyond hope and become somewhat hateful of them all as a class of people.

As for me, am I a good christian???

No I am not a christian.  Although I think I could pass muster for being a good person in a christian's eyes because I follow most of the practical ideals.  I am faithful to my wife, I am kind, I don't steal, I don't murder.  I am a little weak on the attending church thing.

In my adult life I have been to church services about 5 times maybe 10 at the outside.  During catholic marriage to my wife I was forced to attend a couple of times so my wife could have a catholic church wedding for her family.

I was amazed how cult like it all sounded.  the chants of "lord be praised" all said in unison.  The collective standing and kneeling like a precision drill team:)

Then a couple of visits to baptist church.  The church did not have a formal ordained pastor, he told bible stories on an easel.  It was facinating to watch him sketch out the bible stories as he spoke.  But shortly after that they got an ordained fire and brimstone gay hating minister and it was not fun anymore.

All in all whenever I go to a church though I feel like a hypocrite.  I cant speak my mind out of respect to the other church goers so I do not enjoy it.  I would love it if I could stand up and challeng the craziness.

Do you think being gay is a sin?

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2185
  • Darwins +73/-88
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2014, 11:55:46 AM »
Quote
A good christian will inform the sinner (gays) that they are wrong, when they continually refuse to heed their advice they begin to have disdain for the person who abide by their wise advice.

Perhaps worded a little ambiguous.  I know I am often guilty of that.

A good christian will strive to inform the sinner (gays) that they are wrong, however because they are weak they will often deviate from the ideal and begin to feel to disdain for the person who does not abide by their wise advice.  After several iterations of this they may decide that all gays are beyond hope and become somewhat hateful of them all as a class of people.

As for me, am I a good christian???

No I am not a christian.  Although I think I could pass muster for being a good person in a christian's eyes because I follow most of the practical ideals.  I am faithful to my wife, I am kind, I don't steal, I don't murder.  I am a little weak on the attending church thing.

In my adult life I have been to church services about 5 times maybe 10 at the outside.  During catholic marriage to my wife I was forced to attend a couple of times so my wife could have a catholic church wedding for her family.

I was amazed how cult like it all sounded.  the chants of "lord be praised" all said in unison.  The collective standing and kneeling like a precision drill team:)

Then a couple of visits to baptist church.  The church did not have a formal ordained pastor, he told bible stories on an easel.  It was facinating to watch him sketch out the bible stories as he spoke.  But shortly after that they got an ordained fire and brimstone gay hating minister and it was not fun anymore.

All in all whenever I go to a church though I feel like a hypocrite.  I cant speak my mind out of respect to the other church goers so I do not enjoy it.  I would love it if I could stand up and challeng the craziness.

Do you think being gay is a sin?

Something queer's going here. :P

If you are re-asking me what I just asked you, I will wait on your answer before giving mine.  If not I don't know what to make of this post, again. lol  :laugh:
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #74 on: May 01, 2014, 01:49:01 PM »
I cant post anymore

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #75 on: May 01, 2014, 01:53:00 PM »
figures the one post I get in 20 attempts works with something stupid.

I keep getting the following error and I am not sure how to get the MODS to check out my account.

My droid can't post either.
IE and firefox failed.

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /forums/index.php on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache Server at whywontgodhealamputees.com Port 80

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #76 on: May 01, 2014, 01:58:37 PM »
Ok every time I try to post this dang thing it fails one last try.  I am beginning to think that your website does not want me to type the following response for some reason. 

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #77 on: May 01, 2014, 02:05:47 PM »
Being gay is a sin according the the judeo christian bible.  Not to me.

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2185
  • Darwins +73/-88
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #78 on: May 01, 2014, 02:36:39 PM »
Being gay is a sin according the the judeo christian bible.  Not to me.

Gotcha.  thanks.  it just does that here sometimes. ;)
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6866
  • Darwins +925/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #79 on: May 01, 2014, 04:42:12 PM »
It does that when you have a word that the filter does not like. Usually sex stuff.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6773
  • Darwins +542/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2014, 07:13:51 AM »
Whether born "that way" or not, the people who think it is wrong to be gay will still find a way to discriminate. Haters gonna hate, as the kids say. Since social pressure has started to lift and gays are becoming more accepted, anti-gay people are having to face up to what it is they are really afraid of.

it is not a natural way of life. God says that it is wrong.
No, it is you who say it is wrong. It has nothing to do with any imaginary deity, it is simply that the leaders of a primitive tribe did not like it.

You have to do a bit of critical thinking and realise that in an iron age theocracy, the priestly classes simply told the peasants "Don't do that, God doesn't like it." and the peasants believed them without question.

This was useful in a society that did not have a police force.

I am going to assume that if times get hard for you, you are not going to eat your family as advise by God, nor are you going to sack all priests who wear glasses, or in some other way (disabled, crook-back, flat nose) are banned by Leviticus.

I think you are going to find excuses why those is OK.

I don't think that you are intentionally hypocritical, but it is more that you find yourself trapped between what God says and what reality is - it must be quite disturbing for you.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Star Stuff

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5783
  • Darwins +151/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Carbon-based life form.
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2014, 07:32:51 AM »
^^^  "But that was the Old Testament; we're under a new covenant".........in 3....2....
God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups

Offline Ron Jeremy

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
  • Darwins +61/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2014, 09:23:19 AM »
I take it the bible is crystal clear that the Old Testament can be ignored?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline epidemic

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Darwins +61/-14
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2014, 09:55:52 AM »
I take it the bible is crystal clear that the Old Testament can be ignored?

Where the hell do you see that?

Offline Ron Jeremy

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
  • Darwins +61/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2014, 11:19:35 AM »
I take it the bible is crystal clear that the Old Testament can be ignored?

Where the hell do you see that?

In the words of Christians when I ask them how they can ignore the Old Testament. I assumed that the bible made this point crystal clear, what with the OT taking up the majority of the bible and Christians feeling free to ignore its laws. Are you saying it isn't crystal clear and that Biblegod may well expect Christians to follow the Old Testament?
But,..but... are you saying that not only would it be a sin to be gay, it'd also be a sin to wear clothing woven from two different types of fabric?
I'm sure Christians have a rock solid crystal clear instruction to ignore the fabric part and follow the anti-gay part.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Online skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2726
  • Darwins +53/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2014, 11:19:43 AM »
Whether born "that way" or not, the people who think it is wrong to be gay will still find a way to discriminate. Haters gonna hate, as the kids say. Since social pressure has started to lift and gays are becoming more accepted, anti-gay people are having to face up to what it is they are really afraid of.

it is not a natural way of life. God says that it is wrong.
No, it is you who say it is wrong. It has nothing to do with any imaginary deity, it is simply that the leaders of a primitive tribe did not like it.

You have to do a bit of critical thinking and realise that in an iron age theocracy, the priestly classes simply told the peasants "Don't do that, God doesn't like it." and the peasants believed them without question.

This was useful in a society that did not have a police force.

I am going to assume that if times get hard for you, you are not going to eat your family as advise by God, nor are you going to sack all priests who wear glasses, or in some other way (disabled, crook-back, flat nose) are banned by Leviticus.

I think you are going to find excuses why those is OK.

I don't think that you are intentionally hypocritical, but it is more that you find yourself trapped between what God says and what reality is - it must be quite disturbing for you.

With all due respect, I believe you have ti backwards. The fact that they were against certain things proves God inspired the Bible. If they were just making up their own God, they would say, "have sex with whoever you want! it feels awesome! God loves it!"

The fact that they didn't like things that were pleasurable shows it didn't come from man, but from God. God is the one who wants us to have a choice instead of being forced.

Take all the drinks away from an alcoholic and lock him in a basement and he's FORCED to become sober. It wouldn't be by his choice. But, if you keep the liquor in front of the alcoholic and he makes his own choice not to drink, that is more powerful and more self-willed than someone simply taking it away. The choice is what separates us from the animals.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2726
  • Darwins +53/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2014, 11:23:58 AM »
I take it the bible is crystal clear that the Old Testament can be ignored?

Where the hell do you see that?

In the words of Christians when I ask them how they can ignore the Old Testament. I assumed that the bible made this point crystal clear, what with the OT taking up the majority of the bible and Christians feeling free to ignore its laws. Are you saying it isn't crystal clear and that Biblegod may well expect Christians to follow the Old Testament?
But,..but... are you saying that not only would it be a sin to be gay, it'd also be a sin to wear clothing woven from two different types of fabric?
I'm sure Christians have a rock solid crystal clear instruction to ignore the fabric part and follow the anti-gay part.

The OT is not to be ignored. It is not as important to Christians as it is to Jews but it is still important. Jews are the ones who don't follow the OT anymore and they don't believe Christ overruled the OT! So, you would have to ask the Jews why they don't follow their religion.

Besides, Paul speaks against homosexuality in the NT anyway so simply saying, "Gays are mentioned in the OT and Christians ignore the OT so that means it's OK to be gay!" doesn't cut the mustard.  The NT speaks against it as well.

All Christians that I know love gays. We just want them to repent of their sin and stop doing it so they can enjoy Heaven. If we truly HATED homosexuals, we would let them spiral right down to Hell, which is not loving at all.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)