Author Topic: How to remain Christian  (Read 4091 times)

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Offline Eddie Schultz

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How to remain Christian
« on: April 24, 2014, 10:01:04 PM »
I seen this video posted on NoBeliefs.com, and thought the woman did a great job with it. She's an ex Christian, now an Atheist. It was first posted on Youtube on April 15th, so it's fairly new. Since I and others have been sharing it with other known Atheist's, it's views have climbed to over 8,000 in 9 days.

If you like it, pass it on to any other forums, family, friends, etc...



It would also be advised for Christians on the board to do as she suggests if you want to remain Christian.

(amend url to show video
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« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 06:20:13 AM by Graybeard »

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 12:07:26 AM »
nice, simple but effective. will make no difference to those that want to beleive cos they want to beleive, i will sub her on my channel, mega-cute to.
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Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 06:14:30 AM »
I hadn't heard the Jeremiah verse before;

"Jeremiah 10

10 Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."


God himself is talking about a Christmas tree, what else could he possibly mean by this?! So had a quick look at Christian sites to see what they say about using a pagan tree, a tree that god has SPECIFICALLY told Christians not to use; 'Oh no, God didn't mean a Christmas tree you silly thing! He meant a tree that the pagans worship!'

That's a Christmas tree you idiots! Look around you; who else fills their homes with trees decked with gold and silver?

And this is what I find is so irritating about Christians; they feel free to 'interpret' the bible to mean whatever they want, not what their god wants, what they want. A verse in the bible telling them specifically not to get involved with trees decorated with gold and silver, and what do they do? For a tenth of the year they festoon their homes with trees decorated with gold and silver.
'Oh but we don't worship the trees!' Really? Then you won't miss them in your homes or churches at Christmas. After all, what if God's real and you're just pissing him off? Why take the chance? (to use one of your own arguments).
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2014, 06:42:57 AM »
I hadn't heard the Jeremiah verse before;

"Jeremiah 10

10 Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."


God himself is talking about a Christmas tree, what else could he possibly mean by this?! So had a quick look at Christian sites to see what they say about using a pagan tree, a tree that god has SPECIFICALLY told Christians not to use; 'Oh no, God didn't mean a Christmas tree you silly thing! He meant a tree that the pagans worship!'

I'm sorry Ron, the Christians are right. Isaiah was written at a time when the king (I forget who he was) was a fundamentalist godbotherer and had sent out Isaiah as his Rush Limbaugh to brief against the goddess AsherahWiki (she goes by several similar names.) Asherah, as you probably know, was the main alternative deity. The process of worshipping her is described and often (but not always) disapproved in the OT. Her symbol was the tree, often represented as a decorated Asherah pole.

See http://www.orlutheran.com/html/jer10.html which is a fair representation, although it omits the possibility of Asherah being Yahweh's consort (probably a late development as a way of keeping Asherah worship in the face of an ever more draconian Yahwist king.)

If you want to blame anyone, you should blame Luther: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree#Possible_predecessors

The Bible has many examples of previous religions being hijacked: some of the Psalms (IIRC) were originally hymns to Baal Haddad. I think it shows little more than "A stopped clock is right twice a day."

We should also realise that in language we do not stop using a word simply because it was used in another language before it was used in ours and its history does not affect the meaning we put upon it, even if it is quite different from the original meaning.

The idea behind it all is the symbolism. If their symbolism is your symbolism (everlasting life of the evergreen/the hope for continuing in this life) stealing it and putting a slightly different spin on it is not unusual. (Think of the Hindus and the swastika.)

Anyway, on a callous note, putting candles on dead fir trees in a house must have been the cause of many fires and deaths and have been part of a Darwinian selective process.

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 08:01:02 AM »
A Christmas tree is not a naked evergreen tree. As far as I'm aware the bible only mentions decorated trees once; and it is God himself comparing them with the way of the heathen and saying not to use them in connection with His worship. We're not talking about trees decked with gold and silver used arbitrarily throughout the year; they are being used to celebrate the birth of the son of god. They are being used in connection with the worship of Biblegod. Biblegod thinks this is so important that He Himself says it;

Jeremiah 10

Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 05:24:21 PM »
I seen this video posted on NoBeliefs.com, and thought the woman did a great job with it. She's an ex Christian, now an Atheist. It was first posted on Youtube on April 15th, so it's fairly new. Since I and others have been sharing it with other known Atheist's, it's views have climbed to over 8,000 in 9 days.

If you like it, pass it on to any other forums, family, friends, etc...



It would also be advised for Christians on the board to do as she suggests if you want to remain Christian.

(amend url to show video
GB Mod)


Interesting video.  I get the impression she was raised with in a literalist environment based on the concept the Bible is the divinely inspired inerrant word of God.   And probably an all-or-nothing theology (either all the Bible is true and correct or none of the Bible is true and correct). 

Regardless, an interesting video.  Might try it with my High School Sunday School class sometime, believe it or not.  Could be interesting.

As always,

OldChurchGuy

 
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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 05:32:35 PM »
Do you brainwash children?
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 05:41:20 PM »
Do you brainwash children?

Depends on how you define "brainwash".  If you mean presenting only one side of a given issue / topic about the Bible, then the answer is no.

I prefer discussion and looking at diametrically opposed ideas.  Letting the kids ask questions and work out their own solutions.   

Sincerely,

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 05:50:48 PM »
False- kids do not have enough cognitive development or knowledge to engage in higher order thinking of this nature. and by presenting two sides you are implying they are sides of the same coin....they are not, a


lot of fallacies there including false dichotomy.

You will burn for this.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 05:59:33 PM »
False- kids do not have enough cognitive development or knowledge to engage in higher order thinking of this nature. and by presenting two sides you are implying they are sides of the same coin....they are not, a


lot of fallacies there including false dichotomy.

You will burn for this.

I appreciate your concern for my eternal soul. 

How does presenting two sides imply the two sides are sides of the same coin?  Would you give me an example, please?

How would you suggest I teach the class?

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy
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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 06:13:50 PM »
You would have to tell me your objectives first.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2014, 06:25:23 PM »
You would have to tell me your objectives first.

As I wrote earlier: "I prefer discussion and looking at diametrically opposed ideas.  Letting the kids ask questions and work out their own solutions."

If you would be so kind, How does presenting two sides imply the two sides are sides of the same coin?  Would you give me an example, please?

How would you suggest I teach the class?

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
   
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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 06:35:55 PM »
You have told me the lesson objectives.


What is the discussion about.


what is the problem you want them to find a solution to.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 06:37:34 PM by eh! »
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 06:57:06 PM »
You have told me the lesson objectives.


What is the discussion about.


what is the problem you want them to find a solution to.

For example, when I started this class a few months ago, I asked the kids what they wanted to study.  The response was:

What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

What does the Bible say about birth control?

What does the Bible say about abortion?

I told them these were excellent topics and that I would present both sides.  (I believe you can find the lessons on homosexuality here on WWGHA)

By presenting both sides, they were free to make a more informed choice and, hopefully, also see where an opposing viewpoint was coming from. 

Going back to the questions asked earlier: If you would be so kind, How does presenting two sides imply the two sides are sides of the same coin?  Would you give me an example, please?

How would you suggest I teach the class?


Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 07:19:41 PM »
Well that's a lot of topics you are asking me to respond to forgive me if i decline to write a curriculum for you. i will say ime our sunday school teacher in a rural xtian area was so good at covering homosexuality my childhood friend who was homo hung himself in front of the church the scenes if crime guys had to handle it and drive 3 hours to get there. the local cops put a screen over it while church goers went to church.

the same church influenced media to report it as accidental death.


the church received extensive property damage by someone unknown after the funeral.


will get back to you on the coin thing. away for a few hours.
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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2014, 07:39:00 PM »
How does presenting two sides imply the two sides are sides of the same coin?  Would you give me an example, please?

Teaching two sides can imply they are equally valid when they are not. For example evolution and creationism. Religious groups often use this idea of equal rights to make their demands sound reasonable.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2014, 08:53:10 PM »
I seen this video posted on NoBeliefs.com, and thought the woman did a great job with it. She's an ex Christian, now an Atheist. It was first posted on Youtube on April 15th, so it's fairly new. Since I and others have been sharing it with other known Atheist's, it's views have climbed to over 8,000 in 9 days.

If you like it, pass it on to any other forums, family, friends, etc...



It would also be advised for Christians on the board to do as she suggests if you want to remain Christian.

(amend url to show video
GB Mod)

I love her.  :-*

I love her so much I think she and I should get gay married. ;D

By a black drag queen pastor. :o

In front of the largest black church we can find.  :angel:

(I like how the font is the same one used by the Mormons in their outreach campaign..... ;))
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2014, 09:12:14 PM »

Interesting video.  I get the impression she was raised with in a literalist environment based on the concept the Bible is the divinely inspired inerrant word of God.   And probably an all-or-nothing theology (either all the Bible is true and correct or none of the Bible is true and correct). 

Regardless, an interesting video.  Might try it with my High School Sunday School class sometime, believe it or not.  Could be interesting.

As always,

OldChurchGuy

That is probably correct. Most black folks in the US are raised in literal bible-based churches, in my experience, reading the bible like a textbook, seeing the world as if god's hand is in everything that happens, ignorant and suspicious of science, anti-gay, anti-abortion, and given to espousing ill-informed illogical ideas like those women in the thread on churches needing to accept evolution.[1]

Many observers have noted that, except for issues related to race and civil rights, most black Americans hold basically the same views as the conservative whites in the religious right.

We Af-Am's are a fundy Christian bunch, except for a small percentage of Catholics (who are mostly faking it for the schools IMHO), a few hippie Rastas and a hardcore knot of Nation of Islam "white people and pork are from Satan" throwbacks. It's hard to find a new agey Unitarian-Buddhist "everyone is going to heaven" black person.

If you do, it's probably somebody like me, trying to hold onto a few scraps of religious belief on their way to atheism. ;D
 1. That is why I am writing a book on black women and athiesm-- we have our work cut out for us!
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2014, 09:42:19 PM »
Xtianity seemed to have really helped early af-am they could sing praises to god while getting whipped by white xtians.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2014, 10:06:47 PM »
Well that's a lot of topics you are asking me to respond to forgive me if i decline to write a curriculum for you. i will say ime our sunday school teacher in a rural xtian area was so good at covering homosexuality my childhood friend who was homo hung himself in front of the church the scenes if crime guys had to handle it and drive 3 hours to get there. the local cops put a screen over it while church goers went to church.

the same church influenced media to report it as accidental death.


the church received extensive property damage by someone unknown after the funeral.


will get back to you on the coin thing. away for a few hours.

A very sad story.  I appreciate you sharing it. 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2014, 10:10:58 PM »
OCG foxy covered my point re coin thing.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2014, 10:21:56 PM »
How does presenting two sides imply the two sides are sides of the same coin?  Would you give me an example, please?

Teaching two sides can imply they are equally valid when they are not. For example evolution and creationism. Religious groups often use this idea of equal rights to make their demands sound reasonable.

I see your point.  On the other hand, I think by being exposed to both sides, one can (in my opinion anyway) then decide if a given viewpoint has more merit than the other.  And more importantly (to me anyway) why a given viewpoint is favored over the other. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2014, 10:29:25 PM »
Why do you have to put forward two specific view points i am sure they have not been so sheltered to only think in terms of xtianity OR atheism.


i don't think homosexuality implied either.


lots of homo xtians that are definitely not atheist same homo Muslims. jews atheists catholics........has zero to do with faith or lack thereof.


why present it like it does....samr your other topics.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 10:31:54 PM by eh! »
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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2014, 10:33:40 PM »
ETA bishop sponge makes a fair approach to xtianity and the bible. asserts paul fits the profile of a homophobic closet fag.
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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2014, 11:10:03 PM »
Xtianity seemed to have really helped early af-am they could sing praises to god while getting whipped by white xtians.

Have you been lurking in my first chapter? I will be all over the "accept the slave master's religion or die" conversion of black folks to Christianity in the US: Yeah, massa whips me bloody, and he sold my children, one of whom was actually his. But at least he taught me about that lovely white Jesus when he wasn't raping me. So I will see my babies in heaven, as long as I don't kill massa. Praise the lord, I'm too blessed to be stressed.

Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.  :P >:(

I know it is a lot more complicated and black people used the religion differently. The enslaved Israelites as symbolic for escaping from slavery and hymns as signals to each other. But the way people discount the incredible mental and physical fortitude it took to survive enslavement by attributing it to a supernatural being just pisses me off.[1]

"I'm so glad I got my religion in time, halleujah" goes the spiritual, "Hush, Somebody's Calling My Name".
 1. The Haitians kicked a$$ and freed themselves in 1804. No gods were involved-- unless you think that Vodun actually works.  &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2014, 11:28:00 PM »

Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.

OMG. That's my opinion, too!

Marry me, too, please? :-*
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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2014, 12:09:14 AM »
Hey lets go mormon and i will marry all 3 of ya's.
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Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2014, 03:18:57 AM »
You have told me the lesson objectives.


What is the discussion about.


what is the problem you want them to find a solution to.

For example, when I started this class a few months ago, I asked the kids what they wanted to study.  The response was:

What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

What does the Bible say about birth control?

What does the Bible say about abortion?

I told them these were excellent topics and that I would present both sides.  (I believe you can find the lessons on homosexuality here on WWGHA)

By presenting both sides, they were free to make a more informed choice and, hopefully, also see where an opposing viewpoint was coming from. 

Going back to the questions asked earlier: If you would be so kind, How does presenting two sides imply the two sides are sides of the same coin?  Would you give me an example, please?

How would you suggest I teach the class?


Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

Hi OCG. I'm intrigued; what case did you present as opposite to the Christian view on homosexuality?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

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Re: How to remain Christian
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2014, 03:28:34 AM »
That's ........ awkward. or as the kids say "orkies"
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