Author Topic: Nevada gun aholes face off with government  (Read 1293 times)

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Online Azdgari

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2014, 02:03:08 PM »
Who or what do you believe does have authority, HED, and why?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2014, 02:04:22 PM »

I question the religious belief in authority, which is required for "government".


I question that premise. In fact it is false. If belief in authority was religious, there would have been no provision for impeachment or checks and balances. You are the one who, quite clearly are dealing with some belief that are resistant to evidence to the contrary. In fact I smell the odor of a devout follower of Ayn Rand here.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2014, 02:08:31 PM »


I'm here with an agenda. I'm planning on engaging the contra-religion logic and having it applied to another form of religion. The superstitious belief in "government". I expect the same logic and thought used to address the "religious" to be used with me.

What is this 'superstitious belief in government' you speak of?

<snip>

The superstitious, nay, religious belief that government, i.e. the state, has "authority".

I see you snipped what invalidated the argument you simply restated. Why? Was it in conflict with your religious belief that anyone who generally understand that a group of people generally functions better with rules must be wrong?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Habenae Est Dominatus

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2014, 03:03:29 PM »
Who or what do you believe does have authority, HED, and why?

Authority, as a right to command, does not exist.

You can choose somebody to lead you, thus giving them a right to command you if you choose to obey.

You can not choose somebody to command me since you yourself do not have a right to command me.

The State's alleged authority works like this: Do what we say or we will kill you.

As will be shown in the other thread, this alleged authority is created magically.

And yes, sorry, your question is not really answered.

Offline Habenae Est Dominatus

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2014, 03:19:14 PM »

I question the religious belief in authority, which is required for "government".


I question that premise. In fact it is false. If belief in authority was religious, there would have been no provision for impeachment or checks and balances. You are the one who, quite clearly are dealing with some belief that are resistant to evidence to the contrary. In fact I smell the odor of a devout follower of Ayn Rand here.

The existence of the miserably failing checks and balances is irrelevant to the illusion of authority.

Please provide proof of authority.

This post should help you understand my position: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,26669.msg610916.html#msg610916



I see you snipped what invalidated the argument you simply restated. Why? Was it in conflict with your religious belief that anyone who generally understand that a group of people generally functions better with rules must be wrong?

Shrug. Okay, I'll put it back.

I'm here with an agenda. I'm planning on engaging the contra-religion logic and having it applied to another form of religion. The superstitious belief in "government". I expect the same logic and thought used to address the "religious" to be used with me.

What is this 'superstitious belief in government' you speak of?

su·per·sti·tion noun \?sü-p?r-?sti-sh?n\ 

: a belief or way of behaving that is based on fear of the unknown and faith in magic or luck : a belief that certain events or things will bring good or bad luck

So you are trying to paint people with a patently and obviously false pejorative as the foundation for your ire and your agenda. Please look up the definition of Strawman.

And my answer is still the same: The superstitious, nay, religious belief that government, i.e. the state, has "authority", with the addition of:
Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event leads to the cause of another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science.
Bold emphasis mine.

What proof of State authority do you wish to present?

Offline Dante

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2014, 03:20:33 PM »
Who or what do you believe does have authority, HED, and why?

Authority, as a right to command, does not exist.

You can choose somebody to lead you, thus giving them a right to command you if you choose to obey.

Which is what you implicitly do by being a citizen, or by being inside the borders of country regardless of citizenry.

Quote
You can not choose somebody to command me since you yourself do not have a right to command me.

We have agreed, collectively, that you are incorrect.

Quote
The State's alleged authority works like this: Do what we say or we will kill you.

That's a stretch, to say the least. But I do get your point. There are consequences, no doubt.

Quote
As will be shown in the other thread, this alleged authority is created magically.

This should be entertaining, as most here don't believe magic has ever created, nor had an effect on, anything.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2014, 04:52:37 PM »


And my answer is still the same: The superstitious, nay, religious belief that government, i.e. the state, has "authority", with the addition of:
Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event leads to the cause of another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science.
Bold emphasis mine.

What proof of State authority do you wish to present?

Supernatural causality is what you keep asserting that we are asserting. We are asserting no such thing. You are still engaging in a strawman, ad nauseum.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2014, 04:55:33 PM »
Pure Libertarianism, as the Objectivists, rabid fans of Ayn Rand, believe in is delusional

One of the issues I find laugable about Rand's concept of how the world works is the example of Rearden Steel.

Rearden Steel exists apparently through magic.

It has a corporate structure, which cannot exist in the real world except through court recognizing the rights of shareholders.

It makes a profit through a concept of currency, which in the real world only happens when there is a government to back it.

Its workers apprently arrive to the plant via roads that in general don't exist except through governmental projects.

Its workers aren't sick from tainted food, not killed by roving bandits, don't just kill the managers and take over the plant....even though these things would happen in the real world where there is no government enforcement.

It sells steel and ships it without it being stolen by pirates or roving bands of marauders.

People buy their steel, despite that  govenment military is a major buyer, and  construction companies don't have to adhere to building codes(and would turn to a cheaper, inferior product in the real world), the type of infastructure for railroads and bridges exists...how?

It has skilled workforce that is educated...how?

Anyone with a more sophistocated understanding than a 15 year old would understand objectivism is crap. Just as much crap as Communism, pehaps slightly more.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2014, 05:47:20 PM »
I've found other articles (I'll post them here later) covered the case of a rancher in nevada who has been illegally grazing on federal lands for 20 years.  As such, he owes over a million dollars in grazing fees.  Since he refuses to pay them (or even acknowledge the federal government exists) the department of land management impounded some of his cattle per a federal court order.

Enter Sean fcking Hannity and the neoconfederates.  He whipped the lunatic fringe into such a frenzy a hundred (or so) of them showed up in force with guns, threatening the government workers.  Rather than have a massacre, the feds backed down, wrongly in my opinion.

Were I president, I would have called in the national guard and if they tried shit, I'd have gunned down every last one of them and had Sean fcking Hannity arrested for sedition and then hanged.  The sht-heel rancher too.

The Rude Pundit reports:
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-lesson-of-bundyblm-standoff.html


More links later.

I don't know, simply cutting off all water supplies and not letting them leave unless they surrendered their weapon and signed an admission that they were subject to federal law and if they refuse, deport them. That might work a little more to the point of what they are trying to deny.

And yes, I know we are on opposite sides when it comes to the normal gun debate...but that isn't the debate here. It is about people who want all the benefits of civilization and law, and none of the responsibilities.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Online Azdgari

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2014, 08:32:22 PM »
Authority, as a right to command, does not exist.

So, parents have absolutely no authority over their children.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Habenae Est Dominatus

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2014, 11:13:13 PM »
Who or what do you believe does have authority, HED, and why?

Authority, as a right to command, does not exist.

You can choose somebody to lead you, thus giving them a right to command you if you choose to obey.

Which is what you implicitly do by being a citizen, or by being inside the borders of country regardless of citizenry.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur (what is asserted without reason may be denied without reason).
Evidence to prove your assertion please.


Quote
You can not choose somebody to command me since you yourself do not have a right to command me.

We have agreed, collectively, that you are incorrect.

101. Admit or deny that You were not born my king, my superior, nor my sovereign, you were not born with a higher rank than I.

102. Admit or deny that Therefore, you DO NOT have a right to command me by your mere birth.

103. Admit or deny that If this is true for you, it is true for every other human being born on the planet.

104. Admit or deny that If no one has a rank higher than mine, then no one has a right to command me.

105. Admit or deny that Persons long dead were not born my king, my superior, nor my sovereign, they were not born with a higher rank than I.

106. Admit or deny that Therefore, persons long dead DO NOT have a right to command me by their mere birth.

107. Admit or deny that If persons long dead do not have the right to command me by their mere birth, then their commands scribbled on a piece of paper DO NOT have a right to command me after their death.

108. Admit or deny that If no one has a right to command me, then no one has a right to choose someone to command me.

109. Admit or deny that Thus it does not matter how many people vote to give a politician a right to command, if they do not have the right to command me, they do not have the right to give that politician the right to command me.

110. Admit or deny that Therefore if you elect a politician, that does not give the politician the right to command me.

111. Admit or deny that If the politician does not have a right to command me, then it matters not if I am standing within the boundaries of any territory the politician believes is his to control.

You only need to answer to the specific points you deny. Unanswered points are considered as admitted. Points denied need proof as to why they are incorrect.


Quote
The State's alleged authority works like this: Do what we say or we will kill you.

That's a stretch, to say the least. But I do get your point. There are consequences, no doubt.
Are you stating that the law enforcers won't escalate force until there is compliance or the alleged offender is dead?



Quote
As will be shown in the other thread, this alleged authority is created magically.

This should be entertaining, as most here don't believe magic has ever created, nor had an effect on, anything.
Exactly!

Offline Habenae Est Dominatus

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2014, 11:17:05 PM »


And my answer is still the same: The superstitious, nay, religious belief that government, i.e. the state, has "authority", with the addition of:
Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event leads to the cause of another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science.
Bold emphasis mine.

What proof of State authority do you wish to present?

Supernatural causality is what you keep asserting that we are asserting. We are asserting no such thing. You are still engaging in a strawman, ad nauseum.

Then please present the evidence of State authority, of State right to command.

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2014, 01:26:20 AM »
Pure Libertarianism, as the Objectivists, rabid fans of Ayn Rand, believe in is delusional

One of the issues I find laugable about Rand's concept of how the world works is the example of Rearden Steel.

In fairness to Rand, she did think that government ought to exist, and despised anarcho-libertarians about as much as she despised everything else that was not 100% in agreement with her.  She just thought that government ought to be limited to the role of a "night watchman" state, to keep anybody from stealing Rearden's stuff.

I think our Latin motto friend is probably a disciple of people like Lysander Spooner, Murray Rothbard, and L. Neil Smith.  A different, though no less silly, kettle of fish.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2014, 06:36:21 AM »


And my answer is still the same: The superstitious, nay, religious belief that government, i.e. the state, has "authority", with the addition of:
Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event leads to the cause of another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science.
Bold emphasis mine.

What proof of State authority do you wish to present?

Supernatural causality is what you keep asserting that we are asserting. We are asserting no such thing. You are still engaging in a strawman, ad nauseum.

Then please present the evidence of State authority, of State right to command.

You keep asserting that we hold that the state has a inborn right to command. We don't. That's why I keep stating the term Strawman: are you really that in deep in devout rapture of your philosophy not to understand that?

Civilization is a game, it has rules. If the rules are followed, the game can continue. If they are not the game is over. If the rules are more onerous than than the benefits of the game you may want to be elsewhere, or you want to change the game. Some games, like the US have meta rules for changing smaller rules and the referees, who have powers by the rules of the game to call foul and impose penalties.  The players have even meta meta rules how the referee may be ejected from that status of referee. The prizes for playing the game are things like a lower chance of being shot in the head, cleaner drinking water, and a much reduced frequency of rape.

If you hate the game so much that you cannot accept this situation, get the fuck out. Find a place that the game doesn't exist, or has few rules...like Somalia. We will continue playing. Hope you enjoy not having those rule and your increased chance of being shot in the head.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 06:39:29 AM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2014, 06:43:18 AM »
Pure Libertarianism, as the Objectivists, rabid fans of Ayn Rand, believe in is delusional

One of the issues I find laugable about Rand's concept of how the world works is the example of Rearden Steel.

In fairness to Rand, she did think that government ought to exist, and despised anarcho-libertarians about as much as she despised everything else that was not 100% in agreement with her.  She just thought that government ought to be limited to the role of a "night watchman" state, to keep anybody from stealing Rearden's stuff.


I am aware of that, even the term. However, she never laid out provisions of how this night watchman was funded, ruled, was limited, or was watched himself. It was a band aid term to cover a hole in the side of the Titanic.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2014, 08:19:45 AM »
Were I president, I would have called in the national guard and if they tried shit, I'd have gunned down every last one of them and had Sean fcking Hannity arrested for sedition and then hanged.  The sht-heel rancher too.


What Would Janet Reno Do?

Eric Holder should go all black on their asses.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2014, 08:33:20 AM »
It's the vehemence in screwtape's post that motivated me to register.
That's just his liberal streak coming out. Personally, I would have slaughtered all those related to them as well. If you leave any alive, they will only be resentful and cause trouble later. Never forget, "Peace is proportional to the number of the enemy you kill."

Quote
My specific reason for making this post is: "Since he refuses to [...] even acknowledge the federal government exists" What's the problem in that?
Well, it marks him out as someone who might well also not believe that the Statue of Liberty exists: this makes him  delusional and, worse still, delusional with a gun.

I'm warming to Screwtape's theme but still think he is too soft.

Quote
As the post reads, it appears to me that screwtape has an issue with that "belief" of the non-existence of the federal government.
I think everyone has that issue except a few uneducated[1] Tea-Party members and Glen Beck fans, don't you?

So, you are basically opposed to the rule of law. Pleases tell me where you live. I'm sure that I could steal a few things and your delusional principles would mean that you would not expect or want the police[2] to do anything.

 1. OK, you probably don't need "uneducated", people take that for granted
 2. those "agents of an imaginary government.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 08:38:32 AM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline kcrady

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2014, 09:25:31 AM »
I am aware of that, even the term. However, she never laid out provisions of how this night watchman was funded, ruled, was limited, or was watched himself. It was a band aid term to cover a hole in the side of the Titanic.

OK, now I'm imagining Ayn Rand perched precariously on a piece of flotsam as the Titanic sinks in the background, after having jumped out of a perfectly good lifeboat because she could not bring herself to share it with Other People.  Clinging to the same piece of flotsam is her much-younger lover, who is slowly dying of hypothermia in the freezing North Atlantic.

"A-Ayn...I'm...n-n-n-not gonna make it..."

"You can't die, John Galt!  Your much too angular to freeze to death!  'Cold' is mere nature, which Man is meant to conquer by the sheer hardness of his massive chromium techno-penis!  *speech continues for three hours non-stop* ...and so, the rational thing to do is to trace a dollar sign in the air and light up a cigarette in glorious triumph!"

Galt shudders out his last breath, then sinks under the rippling surface, gradually disappearing into the inky depths.

"Wait...did he just...sacrifice himself for me?  That stupid mystical, concrete-bound, second-hand parasitical rotter!  He should have clambered up here, raped me to death[1] then taken this piece of flotsam for himself!  That's how Man Qua Man survives and flourishes in a rational society!"

Thanks for that image, btw. ;)
 1. This is not a rape "joke."  Rather, it is a critical satire of the creepy rapetastic "love" scenes of Ms. Rand's novels.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2014, 02:50:01 PM »
That way I can quit hijacking this thread.

I do not consider your input here to be hijacking the thread at all. Please do not feel it is necessary to carry on elsewhere.


Again, Law is a politician's command.

You keep saying this, but no one is agreeing.  I reject this definition. Try another one.


Are you going to argue that it's okay to kill the protesters because the law allows it?

Your question is too vague to be answered. It depends, doesn't it?  What protestors are we talking about?  What are they doing?  Why are they being killed? 

Are you going to argue that it's not murder because it's done according to the law?

As I said in my first response to you, we don't always get the law right.  Your question is too vague to be answered.

You state:
Quote
They are an armed insurrection against the rule of law.
Are you aware of the results of the Nuremberg trials? There are times when one has a duty to break the law. Are you aware that Jews and other undesirables were herded into concentration camps according to the rule of law?

Sure, sure, I agree.  As I said above, it depends.  I need more specifics to answer.   

Wait, are you comparing jews to the cattle?  If so, wow, man.  If not, I do not see the relevance of either Nuremberg or the jews.

It has been said that democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Yes, it is.  And that was foreseen by thomas jefferson, et al, with the Bill of Rights to protect the minority from such predations.

Also, please recite the Pledge of Allegiance with me: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the ???????? for which it stands...

Oh.  You wanted to be pedantic.  Sorry.  Not "democracy".  Republic. 

What evidence do you or the prosecution rely upon to prove those laws apply to me?

Are you currently within US borders?  If so, they apply to you.  Why do they apply to you?  Because the rest of us say so.  I think it is unlikely the evidence I would provide - essentially, the Constitution, Supreme Court rulings, and various other documents - would be deemed authoritative or acceptable to you.

You see, laws are human constructs.  Your request for "evidence" is a categorical error.  They do not exist outside of our say so.  It is like when a police officer says "you are under arrest," he brings about a certain kind of reality which is otherwise undetectable, but is not supernatural, per se.

And here Sir(?)

ya, I'm a "he".

Are you stating that representatives are not politicians?
Are you stating the law is not backed by threat of force?
Are you stating that the law enforcers won't escalate force until there is compliance or the alleged offender is dead?

good call on all those.  Yes, representatives are politicians, the law is backed by threat of force, and if you resist the law, they'll kill you.  However, let's not get carried away with a perspective that, while technically correct, is overall a misrepresentation.  You say "politicians" as if they are a separate species.  They are not.  In a representative republic, they are us.  Sure, many of them are out of touch skuzballs.  But whom do we blame for that?  Who elected them?

And you call laws their"commands", as if they were whims and dictates.  But they were debated and voted on, so I can hardly see how that is a command in the sense you imply.  Our compliance is not optional, and yes, that is under threat of force.

About a million years ago - give or take - evolution figured out that our predecessors were more successful as a group than as individuals.  So we evolved with a proclivity to be social.  But not in the way ants are social or even wolves.  We are more individualistic.  We are not quite mountain lions.  But there is that tendency.

For animals to work together as a group, there have to be rules to govern their behavior to ensure group success.  Those rules limit the freedom of the individuals for the benefit of the group.  Originally, these were morals.  As our predecessors evolved and moved on, they developed them further into laws.  Laws are enforced by force if necessary, because that is how people are.  There is always some asshole willing to scam the system for his own personal benefit (ex. Cliven Bundy) at the expense of the rest of us.  If you do not like our groups policies and laws you are, in this country any way, free to leave. 

If you do not want to comply with the group, or contribute to the group success, that is fine with me.  Stay the fck off my roads, out of my libraries, and off my internet.  Do not expect my police, fire department or ambulance to help you when you need it.  Etc.  Otherwise, you are a parasite on the rest of us.  If that is your wish, I would happily pay your one-way airfare to Somalia.  Just let me know. You only need to renounce your US citizenship in a way the bureaucracy recognizes.


As to the representatives: What evidence do you rely upon to prove they represent me?

Well, nothing.  My representative is a repub cocksucker (possibly literally) and votes against my interests on pretty much everything.  But that is how it works.  I'd prefer a parliamentarian form of government, but I think a constitutional convention to change it would cause a civil war.  So, if your rep does not represent you, you are shit outta luck. Your options are political activism or move.  The offer to go to Somalia stands open.


By that same unexamined logic, Santa Clause does exist as well.

eh, no.  Not even close.  The North Pole has been searched and there is no workshop full of elves to be found.  Washington DC, however, is full of buildings with federal government employees.  Or, elves, if you prefer.

the superstitious belief in "government".

I do not think superstitious means what you think it means.

What exactly, has been stolen from the public?

Grass.  Space.  Other ranchers have to pay for that.  He did not.  He is a parasite. 

Do you have a link to the transcripts of the court case?

As I understand there are no transcripts because he represented himself by mail.  He literally mailed it in.  So there would be no stenographer and all the comments and arguments would be written. 

Please understand that my position on Bundy is tentative.  I assume the numerous news reports are more or less accurate.  If contradictory evidence is presented, I could change my mind about him. However, I would not change my mind about the 1000 armed assholes.  They are still assholes.


You were part of the suppression of the whiskey rebellion?
And what exactly was your part in deciding how to deal with "that"?

I have no idea what you are talking about.  I was referring to the civil war.

Not sure I understand the question. Are you asking how I think the situation would go if those yahoos were niggers or camel fuckers? Isn't the term "yahoo" just as demeaning?

Classy.

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Offline Nam

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2014, 09:30:52 PM »
If I can be social...anyone can!

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Nam

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2014, 09:34:28 PM »
This guy lost all argument(s) when he joined this website. When he, and everyone else here joined they submitted to FOLLOW THE WEBSITE'S RULES AND GUIDELINES, if not they also accepted punishment for breaking them; like I do on occasion.

So, Mr. Idiot--check and a mate.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Tero

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2014, 10:19:44 PM »
When Bundy dies, can the Gubment collect the fines from his estate? The fines amount to many more millions than he would have paid as fees. So in that sense he is just gioving his ranch away, if the Gubment can step in at death.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2014, 03:07:55 PM »
Hrrm...conservative media treats these guys engaging in armed rebellion as heroes...and the occupy movement, which was peaceful protest mostly in compliance with the law, was treated how?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Nam

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2014, 02:28:51 PM »
I spent some time with some conservative Republican relatives last week, and the visit was going fine until politics came up, and this issue. They're heroes not because they believe it (because they didn't before) but when FAUX NOISE explained it, yep! heroes.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline screwtape

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2014, 03:11:33 PM »
Bundy, et al, are getting the equivalent of welfare via reduced grazing fees.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/04/17/3428051/nevada-rancher-re-run/
Quote
Right now they are paying $1.35 a month for each cow/calf combination eating our grass. By comparison, the average grazing fee on private land in the West is $16.80 a month, according to the Congressional Research Service, and ranges between $2.28 and $150 on state lands in the region.

So the ungrateful sonofabitch is getting a minimum of a 90% discount to begin with, and still refuses to pay that.  Take his cows, take his ranch. 
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2014, 03:20:39 PM »
Also, Cliven Bundy is a liar and a fraud:
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny
Quote
"I've lived my lifetime here. My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements," Bundy said.

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn't start grazing on that land until 1954.
...

I know.  Totally shocking.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2014, 03:26:39 PM »
heh.

John Stewart's take
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/22/1293714/-MUST-SEE-Jon-Stewart-rips-into-Cliven-Bundy-and-his-demented-defenders?showAll=yes

there is a photo of Bundy on a horse with the American flag.  Stewart points out, it is the flag of the federal government, which Bundy says doesn't exist. 
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Offline Nam

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2014, 07:00:35 PM »
That was funny, Bundy says he doesn't recognize the federal gov't but waving an American flag. What an idiot.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Hatter23

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Re: Nevada gun aholes face off with government
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2014, 09:21:57 AM »
That was funny, Bundy says he doesn't recognize the federal gov't but waving an American flag. What an idiot.

-Nam

Not an idiot...an appeal to idiots to allow him to make more money by stealing resources. So far, it seems to be working.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.