Author Topic: check out the logic in this quote  (Read 1270 times)

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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2014, 08:33:08 AM »

Not sure.  Understand, I am not saying the Bible is the ONLY source for inspiring people to treat their fellow people with kindness and respect.  Perhaps it is all genetic.  Who knows?

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

I am happy you have found peace, Junebug.  May that peace be with you and your partner and everyone you come in contact with every day.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
I feel like we have taken over this thread.  My apologies eh!. 

No not genetic.  I come from two very self centered families.  It is a miracle that I am capable of loving my fellow man.  My mother was giving but her family was not, is not. 

Buddhism is much more loving and much less destructive as Christianity.  You would know this if you hadn't dedicated your life to interpreting the bible.

I am thankful everyday that the church let me down and I was forced to find another way to believe.

If it made you happy you'd be smiling in that picture.:o
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2014, 08:37:48 AM »

I am happy you have found peace, Junebug.  May that peace be with you and your partner and everyone you come in contact with every day.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

There is no peace where the bible is at.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2014, 11:06:00 AM »
The problem isn't the Bible, the problem is with the fact that humans are not especially empathetic by nature.  We generally put ourselves first, and then rank the social groups we're a part of based on how closely we associate with them.  Usually family is first, then community (or tribes/clans/extended family groups), then we have things like organizations (businesses and clubs), race, nation, and finally species.  But once you get outside of the immediate community, the others are all fairly abstract.  The point is that we're all connected, but most of us don't have the ability to perceive it because it it's too far outside of our myopic empathetic sense.

For example, all human beings are related to each other.  In a very real sense, we're all part of a giant extended family.  But we can barely perceive the connections to our extended family/community.  Once you get past that, it disappears into the "one, two, three, many" paradigm.  So the artificial connections between us based on perceived differences (organization, race, and nation) seem more real to us than the actual physical connections we share as members of the same species.

Until we figure out how to make people empathize with each other as members of the same species, then we'll continue to be divided against ourselves.  And while part of it is due to ancient superstitions used to explain some of those differences, much of it is due to uninformed, ignorant prejudice.

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2014, 12:06:22 PM »
OCG why aren't you smiling in that picture?   It's scary.

I came across it quite by accident when looking for an avatar.  I've always liked the actor, Boris Karloff, so downloaded it.  Hadn't actually thought is was scary.  Maybe I will look for another sometime.  For now, I like this one.

As always,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline Boots

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2014, 12:36:18 PM »
"Secondly, it is unreasonable to believe something could begin to exist without a cause. The Universe therefore requires a cause; nothing illogical so far in my thread.
 
The evolutionist

this is a term invented by creationists in order to attempt to cast evolution in the same murky light as the creation myths.

[/quote] nonverbally says yeah but where did God come from? And that of course illogical question, .... God the creator by the definition is an infinite eternal spirit without beginning, without end, NOT bound by time, creator of time, therefore transcending any need for beginning.[/quote]

(emphasis added) Bullcrap.  Special pleading.  You don't get to make up a being whose definition brushes away the thing you're trying to prove, just because.  Have they demonstrated these characteristics of their god?  If not, they don't get to claim them as a "no first cause, except mine"

 
Quote
and it’s nothing illogical for something being eternal. It is illogical thou for something have a beginning like a Universe and NOT have an adequate cause

Argument from ignorance.  They don't know the universe had a beginning, therefore they can't claim it had to have a cause.  If it is not illogical for "somethign to be eternal," why not the universe?


Quote
Now that doesn’t sit well with my evolutionist on this forum lol, I think Christian’s folks already figured that out what we looked at.

probably because the xian folks he's referring to have no problem dealing with the cognitive dissonance adhering to a logical fallacy requires.
 
Quote
But let’s take a look at some classic cause and effect reasoning what we actually observed in the universe!

I call shenanigans here.  None of these things are observable with our current technology.
 
Quote
And science shows this…that a God such the God revealed in the Bible must exist based on real science cause and effect relationships."
 

there was no science there.  Just philosophical word-games, arguments from ignorance, and out-and-out lies.

don't forget that the existance of an all-knowing entity precludes the existance of free will.
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

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Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2014, 12:53:43 PM »
Until we figure out how to make people empathize with each other as members of the same species, then we'll continue to be divided against ourselves.  And while part of it is due to ancient superstitions used to explain some of those differences, much of it is due to uninformed, ignorant prejudice.

A good start would be to make every person on the planet listen to Carl Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g

Wishful thinking, but still....
The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

The only thing bigger than the universe is humanity's collective sense of self-importance.

Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2014, 07:45:04 AM »
Until we figure out how to make people empathize with each other as members of the same species, then we'll continue to be divided against ourselves.  And while part of it is due to ancient superstitions used to explain some of those differences, much of it is due to uninformed, ignorant prejudice.

A good start would be to make every person on the planet listen to Carl Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g

Wishful thinking, but still....

I'm pretty sure my empathy comes from being there.  I have this thing where I can picture myself in the same condition and it breaks my heart. I don't think you can MAKE people empathize.  There are some scientist out there trying to zap evil out of brains.  They also said it doesn't work on psychopaths, I think, I was heavily medicated. ;) I've been watching "Through the Wormhole" again. :laugh:  I respect the way the show always leaves you with more questions than answers.  That's where my signature comes from, "Question Everything".

Thanks for introducing me to Carl Sagan.  His voice was so soothing; his message inspiring. 

I think the worse division among us right now is economic divide; "class".  I may not be rich but I am a 1st class citizen.  To me many, not all, of the rich and the ones that want to be are the least patriotic, least empathetic and the reason this planet may not survive.  All they care about is money.

I don't know about y'all but it makes me kind of sick to my stomach when filthy rich folk beg me for money to feed starving animals.  I feel sorry for the animals but I think we should feed the children and humans first.  If you raise the standards of living for the poor you raise the standard for their pets as well.  Rising tides lifts all ships, right? :?

Have A Grrrrrrrreat Day!

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2014, 07:59:20 AM »
OCG why aren't you smiling in that picture?   It's scary.

I came across it quite by accident when looking for an avatar.  I've always liked the actor, Boris Karloff, so downloaded it.  Hadn't actually thought is was scary.  Maybe I will look for another sometime.  For now, I like this one.

As always,

OldChurchGuy

Well it looks like a serial killer to me.  It upsets me every time I see it.  I try to ignore it but those eyes are horrifying/judgemental.  Why would anybody want what you have?  Most folks want happiness right.  You must not be happy.   You must not care if your avatar personifies happiness and love. 

It does not match your personality.  I am not trying to be mean.  Just honest.  Smile more, please.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2014, 08:11:30 AM »
OCG why aren't you smiling in that picture?   It's scary.

I came across it quite by accident when looking for an avatar.  I've always liked the actor, Boris Karloff, so downloaded it.  Hadn't actually thought is was scary.  Maybe I will look for another sometime.  For now, I like this one.

As always,

OldChurchGuy

Well it looks like a serial killer to me.  It upsets me every time I see it.  I try to ignore it but those eyes are horrifying/judgemental.  Why would anybody want what you have?  Most folks want happiness right.  You must not be happy.   You must not care if your avatar personifies happiness and love. 

It does not match your personality.  I am not trying to be mean.  Just honest.  Smile more, please.

Let me see what I can come up with.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2014, 08:15:27 AM »
Jaime I can't believe you said this.

The problem isn't the Bible, the problem is with the fact that humans are not especially empathetic by nature.  We generally put ourselves first, and then rank the social groups we're a part of based on how closely we associate with them.  Usually family is first, then community (or tribes/clans/extended family groups), then we have things like organizations (businesses and clubs), race, nation, and finally species.  But once you get outside of the immediate community, the others are all fairly abstract.  The point is that we're all connected, but most of us don't have the ability to perceive it because it it's too far outside of our myopic empathetic sense.

For example, all human beings are related to each other.  In a very real sense, we're all part of a giant extended family.  But we can barely perceive the connections to our extended family/community.  Once you get past that, it disappears into the "one, two, three, many" paradigm.  So the artificial connections between us based on perceived differences (organization, race, and nation) seem more real to us than the actual physical connections we share as members of the same species.

Until we figure out how to make people empathize with each other as members of the same species, then we'll continue to be divided against ourselves.  And while part of it is due to ancient superstitions used to explain some of those differences, much of it is due to uninformed, ignorant prejudice.

I agree the bible is not the only perpetrator but it is a major player.  When a man believes God approves of his hate and prejudice it makes an extremely dangerous man/woman/community/nation.  The bible/quran is responsible for extremism.  Mankind is responsible for letting it continue this long.

All we can really do is set a positive example in our own lives, right?  Maybe someone will ask you, "why are you so happy all the time", and then you can say, "this is how I do it", ya da ya da ya da.

Other than that great post.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Ataraxia

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2014, 08:16:05 AM »
OCG why aren't you smiling in that picture?   It's scary.

I came across it quite by accident when looking for an avatar.  I've always liked the actor, Boris Karloff, so downloaded it.  Hadn't actually thought is was scary.  Maybe I will look for another sometime.  For now, I like this one.

As always,

OldChurchGuy

Well it looks like a serial killer to me.  It upsets me every time I see it.  I try to ignore it but those eyes are horrifying/judgemental.  Why would anybody want what you have?  Most folks want happiness right.  You must not be happy.   You must not care if your avatar personifies happiness and love. 

It does not match your personality.  I am not trying to be mean.  Just honest.  Smile more, please.

Next you'll be saying he looks like Frankenstein('s monster)....
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2014, 08:16:57 AM »
Let me see what I can come up with.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

Thanks O you're awesome.  Made me smile from ear to ear. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: +1000. 

You won my heart with that move.  You're a slick one indeed!!! :)

That's LUV right thare I don't care who ya arah!  ;) southern slang, sorry
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 08:34:53 AM by junebug72 »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2014, 08:25:26 AM »
OCG why aren't you smiling in that picture?   It's scary.

I came across it quite by accident when looking for an avatar.  I've always liked the actor, Boris Karloff, so downloaded it.  Hadn't actually thought is was scary.  Maybe I will look for another sometime.  For now, I like this one.

As always,

OldChurchGuy

Well it looks like a serial killer to me.  It upsets me every time I see it.  I try to ignore it but those eyes are horrifying/judgemental.  Why would anybody want what you have?  Most folks want happiness right.  You must not be happy.   You must not care if your avatar personifies happiness and love. 

It does not match your personality.  I am not trying to be mean.  Just honest.  Smile more, please.

Next you'll be saying he looks like Frankenstein('s monster)....

You said it not me.  I was as nice as could be under the circumstance ;)... :angel: :angel: :angel:

Funny though.  I think we all need a good rib busting laugh. 

I've been getting my laughs from my DIL.  My little 10 month old grandson is really giving her a run for her money. :laugh: 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online One Above All

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2014, 08:26:54 AM »
Let me see what I can come up with.

Might I recommend a young (from your perspective), attractive actor? :P

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

Jokingly, but willing to advise if you decide to take it seriously,

One
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2014, 08:43:55 AM »
How about this guy.  He could turn me straight, just kidding.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online One Above All

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2014, 08:51:55 AM »
How about this guy.  He could turn me straight, just kidding.

<snip>

He could turn me bi- Wait, too late. :P
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2014, 08:58:28 AM »
How about this guy.  He could turn me straight, just kidding.

<snip>

He could turn me bi- Wait, too late. :P

yay hip hip hooray etc etc etc
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Online One Above All

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #75 on: April 17, 2014, 09:11:44 AM »
yay hip hip hooray etc etc etc

Now I'm sad. :(
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #76 on: April 17, 2014, 09:17:27 AM »
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 09:26:26 AM by junebug72 »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2014, 10:20:30 AM »
Thanks for introducing me to Carl Sagan.  His voice was so soothing; his message inspiring. 

Always glad to spread Carl's message of hope for humanity and reverence for a natural universe. :)
The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

The only thing bigger than the universe is humanity's collective sense of self-importance.

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2014, 09:45:04 PM »
OCG why aren't you smiling in that picture?   It's scary.

I came across it quite by accident when looking for an avatar.  I've always liked the actor, Boris Karloff, so downloaded it.  Hadn't actually thought is was scary.  Maybe I will look for another sometime.  For now, I like this one.

As always,

OldChurchGuy

Well it looks like a serial killer to me.  It upsets me every time I see it.  I try to ignore it but those eyes are horrifying/judgemental.  Why would anybody want what you have?  Most folks want happiness right.  You must not be happy.   You must not care if your avatar personifies happiness and love. 

It does not match your personality.  I am not trying to be mean.  Just honest.  Smile more, please.

Let me see what I can come up with.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

Is this photo of a smiling Boris Karloff acceptable?

As always,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #79 on: April 18, 2014, 06:46:28 AM »
I just want every one to know I was being sincere when I asked OAA what I could do.  I was NOT being a dick.  I don't even understand why celebrating his sexuality made him sad.  I am confused. 

I don't understand, why?   

I'm not going to let it ruin my day.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #80 on: April 18, 2014, 06:55:06 AM »
Is this photo of a smiling Boris Karloff acceptable?

As always,

OldChurchGuy

OCG that's a very handsome picture.  Thanks for caring.   I can't say enough how much that meant to me.  I hope knowing how happy I am makes the change feel good for you.  Not many people would have changed their avatar for a stranger on the net.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Boots

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #81 on: April 18, 2014, 12:35:07 PM »
Is this photo of a smiling Boris Karloff acceptable?

As always,

OldChurchGuy

I'll bet you sound like the Grinch!

"These stockings," he grinched, "are the first things to go!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aga1BOSu7yY
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #82 on: April 18, 2014, 12:43:25 PM »
I just want every one to know I was being sincere when I asked OAA what I could do.  I was NOT being a dick.  I don't even understand why celebrating his sexuality made him sad.  I am confused. 

No smiley. And this: "etc etc etc". Set off my sarcasm meter, as well as my "She's pissed" meter. Then there's the image of some tissues you posted in another post, which made my "She's fucking with you" meter collapse into a black hole and create another universe.

I'm not going to let it ruin my day.

As well you shouldn't. If I wanted to ruin your day, I'd... Well, let's leave that a mystery.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #83 on: April 18, 2014, 12:58:33 PM »
Is this photo of a smiling Boris Karloff acceptable?

As always,

OldChurchGuy

I'll bet you sound like the Grinch!

"These stockings," he grinched, "are the first things to go!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aga1BOSu7yY

Born and raised in America so I have a Midwest accent with some touch of the Southwest in that I use "y'all" and "all y'all" when speaking.  It would be nice to have a sophisticated British accent like Karloff but that is not the case.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

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Re: check out the logic in this quote
« Reply #84 on: April 18, 2014, 03:33:32 PM »
I liked your Karloff avatar. A sad character... but I agree, that it is not "you", then neither is your present one. You need one that quietly states "avuncular" with a touch of authority and benevolence.

This guy works for you:


but if you use him, get rid of the purple and flip the image horizontally to give the idea that you are considering the post.

But I digress from the topic.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 03:51:57 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”