Author Topic: death penalty  (Read 561 times)

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Offline Dante

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2014, 04:18:57 PM »

No I do not. That doesn't mean I don't approve of their freedom to choose it, though. You don't have to approve of something to approve of people's right to choose it.

Seems silly, but that's just my opinion.
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Online One Above All

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2014, 04:22:45 PM »
Seems silly, but that's just my opinion.

That's what I'd expect from someone whose mentality (caused by upbringing and other such factors) makes him feel the need to remove others' freedoms (within reason) if it goes against his opinions.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2014, 04:33:54 PM »

Suicide is the most selfish action any human can undertake. Think about that, then get back to me. Or don't. Just think about it, regardless.

I have pretty much always shared that perspective.

Recently I have witnessed a suicide happen in front of me, and more recently still seen video footage of the start of a suicide. Very unpleasant, and I've been thinking a bit about suicide generally, about what state of mind somebody must be in to take that step. And I've wondered if 'selfish' is always the right word to use to describe it. I wonder if sometimes people who suicide sometimes don't genuinely believe that their death is the best thing for not only them but others as well.

I'm sure some people suicide fully comprehending that the end of their sadness means the beginning of sadness for many others, and that is definitely a selfish act IMO. But I guess we often don't know what was going through someone's mind in the moments before taking their life, and I am starting to think that suicide should generally be seen as simply tragic without labelling the deceased selfish.
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Re: death penalty
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2014, 05:18:01 PM »
I thought about suicide a lot when I was a kid. The only thing that went through my mind was to end my constant-no end in sight-suffering. I didn't give a rat's ass what others thought because they either ignored my attempts of seeking help, were oblivious, didn't care, or were part of the problem.

The only thing that got me through it was that I made a list of things I'd miss.

Who's selfish in that scenario? Certainly wasn't me and there are/were people who have/had it a lot worse than I did.

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« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 05:22:45 PM by Nam »
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Offline screwtape

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2014, 08:22:37 AM »
Suicide is the most selfish action any human can undertake.

I dunno.  Masturbation is pretty selfish. In fact, I cannot think of any aspect of it that is less selfish than suicide.

Think about that, then get back to me. Or don't. Just think about it, regardless.

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2014, 08:34:58 AM »
I dunno.  Masturbation is pretty selfish. In fact, I cannot think of any aspect of it that is less selfish than suicide.

Think about that, then get back to me. Or don't. Just think about it, regardless.

Well, rubbing one out, in contrast to rubbing one's self out, does not remove the ability to fulfill any of that person's responsibilities to others in the future.
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2014, 08:40:10 AM »
I dunno.  Masturbation is pretty selfish. In fact, I cannot think of any aspect of it that is less selfish than suicide.

Think about that, then get back to me. Or don't. Just think about it, regardless.

Well, rubbing one out, in contrast to rubbing one's self out, does not remove the ability to fulfill any of that person's responsibilities to others in the future.

It doesn't remove the ability to rub another one out either

Offline screwtape

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2014, 09:30:40 AM »
Well, rubbing one out, in contrast to rubbing one's self out, does not remove the ability to fulfill any of that person's responsibilities to others in the future.

That presumes responsibilities.  They are created ideas.  And it presumes responsibilities to other people outweigh what one owes one's self.  In that light, eating is a selfish act.  You could be fulfilling responsibilities to other people instead of eating. Yet, if you do not eat, you will die.  So some level of selfishness is necessary and some selfish acts are good. 

I don't think selfish is necessarily a bad thing nor do I think poorly of suicide.  For example, I think it would be a great boon to society and a highly patriotic act if Sean "Sedition" Hannity killed himself.

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2014, 09:49:13 AM »
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2014, 10:00:59 AM »
Back to the OT, although the discussion of masturbation and eating has been delightful, as both believer and non-believer I have never thought of death as sufficient punishment. (Except in cases of total psychopaths completely incapable of remorse or rehabilitation) Sitting in prison and living with the guilt of what you did seems much more suitable than ending one's life.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Mrjason

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2014, 10:22:35 AM »
where there is the option of a whole life tariff is there any point in the death penalty?

Offline wright

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Re: death penalty
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2014, 10:36:17 AM »
...as both believer and non-believer I have never thought of death as sufficient punishment. (Except in cases of total psychopaths completely incapable of remorse or rehabilitation) Sitting in prison and living with the guilt of what you did seems much more suitable than ending one's life.

Quite true. The death of an offender, no matter how draconian, will not undo the harm they caused. While I suppose some victims of violent crime might find catharsis and closure by knowing those who hurt them are dead, that isn't by itself enough (in my opinion) to justify the death penalty.

Attempting to reform such offenders is a better solution in terms of resources. It does take far more time and effort though, which is probably why the penal system in general leans the other way. People prefer simple solutions, even when "simple" isn't the best choice.

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