Saying why 'all the cloak and dagger stuff'? Is already acknowledging the existence of God as an independent being. If not, then the question does not make any sense.
Hey, Luk. Wheels is offline at the moment, so I thought I would attempt to clarify this comment of yours.
You need to remember that you created/named the thread, so it is yourself... and only yourself that is "already the existence of God as an independent being". The rest of us (atheists) are arguing, rather strongly I might add, is that if this "God" you describe is indeed an "independent being" that can operate and influence the universe around it outside of your brain, then It does so in a manner that is not verifiable by any known methods.
What wheels (please correct me if I am misrepresenting you), myself and every other member that is debating you on this topic has been doing is playing "Devil's Advocate" (operating under the assumption
that said "God" is an "independent being" in order to move the conversation along. The fact remains that you have not proven this point by any stretch of the imagination.
Dragons in the minds of Skyrim players usually don't have the same effect on your life that God or love has. So no, it's not the same. Do you still disagree? If so, why?
But they may
, which is the argument I belive he was making. But let me offer a different example, and one that had actually happened to me when I was around 7 or 8 years of age.
Have you ever read the book "Gulliver's Travels"? I had watched an animated version of the story on tv when I was young.
I had became fascinated with the "Lilliputians" (a race of tiny people) to the point of dreaming about them. The very next morning, I remember going downstairs and crawling in to a floor-level cabinet in our living room where my parents kept all of my and my sister's children's books.
In one corner there was a small crack or cavity perhaps and inch tall and a 1/4 inch wide, and I had become convinced that on the other side of the hole was the Land of Lilliput, and that if I could only be able to bring my eyes close enough that I would be able to see it.
Long story short, for about a two week period I would attempt to peer in to the crack to see the Lilliputians before finally being told by my mother (who must had been becoming concerned over my obsession) that Gulliver's Travels and the Lilliputians were just a story, and not real.
So, here we have an example where the Lilliputians had "existed" as a "concept" in my brain. This "concept" had actually caused me to alter my daily life (to what extent or for how long being irrelevant). I think we would both agree that this "concept", however, had no capacity to operate independently outside of my brain or to influence the universe around it.
The same goes for your God. That is our counter argument. The burden of proof now lies with you to show that your personal concept of "God" has the capacity to operate independently outside of your brain and influence the universe around it.