Author Topic: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?  (Read 5339 times)

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #145 on: July 03, 2014, 04:01:53 AM »
The point I'm making is : I think we were created with an infallible brain. And that people exist today with an infallible brain (or close to).

My mistake - I thought your point was that we had fallible brains now.

In that case God made us with an infallible brain. I suppose it is evolution that "transformed" it as it is today.

However, this raises two questions.

Firstly, "infallible" is an absolute.  Yes, you can be "close to" - but that still makes the brain fallible.  So do we have infallible brains now, or do we have fallible brains (albeit ones that are "pretty good")?

Secondly - and the whole point of this thread - if we do NOT have a 100% infallible brain, it is entirely possible (and even expected) that many, many people will get the whole "god thing" wrong.  What are the consequences of getting it wrong?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #146 on: July 03, 2014, 04:15:09 AM »
Ok i am sorry but what the hail mary fuk is everyone talking about on this thread fallible/infallible i have lurked to scared to appear dumb but now I'm pissed what is an infallible or fallible brain, what does that mean.
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Offline epidemic

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #147 on: July 03, 2014, 12:36:00 PM »
Earthly? It is spiritual.

So your religious instructors use feelings to teach you?  Or is there a Book they learn from?

Basically The CCC (CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH) and the Bible (but mostly the CCC)
What is the source of this CCC?

To my knowledge there are no such story. Angels[1] are nothing like Humans. I would suggest not comparing the two.
 1. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p5.htm#328

Angels are apparently very like people where it counts.  They are intelligent, thinking, feeling beings and apparently fallible as well.

So you know of no story where once condemed to hell people are given a reprieve, so where do you come up with your conclusion that you can ask for forgiveness after beind sent to hell (whether it be a lake of fire or even worse just the absence of god.  There is no indication that there is a pannic button that you can request to get back into gods good graces.   You are condemed to hell based on your lack faith "in life" alone according to matthew.  Once condemed there is not a single bible story that says you get a second chance.

isn't the CCC a book written by men to try and explain the bible and how to read it in a catholic way?  Essentially CCC is a book of opinions of the meaning of the bible?

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #148 on: July 03, 2014, 05:37:30 PM »
Firstly, "infallible" is an absolute.  Yes, you can be "close to" - but that still makes the brain fallible.  So do we have infallible brains now, or do we have fallible brains (albeit ones that are "pretty good")?
Since I never met one of these people with Eidetic memory and the likes of them and I don't know how to properly "test" and infallible brain, I cannot say for sure which one.

Quote
if we do NOT have a 100% infallible brain, it is entirely possible (and even expected) that many, many people will get the whole "god thing" wrong.  What are the consequences of getting it wrong?
The pope says that as long as you are square with your conscience there is no consequence to be afraid of. I believe that there are atheists in heaven. Or course they are not atheist anymore haha.
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #149 on: July 03, 2014, 05:48:17 PM »
The memory of which you speak of Eidetic,means they can remember anything,not DO anything. If you put a small engine in front of a person with this brain power he would not be able to fix or rebuild it without having prior knowledge of how. Are you confused?
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #150 on: July 03, 2014, 05:50:13 PM »
So your religious instructors use feelings to teach you?  Or is there a Book they learn from?
Yes I thought I told you :
Basically The CCC (CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH) and the Bible (but mostly the CCC)

Quote
What is the source of this CCC?
You can find the answer in here : http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/aposcons.htm

Quote
So you know of no story where once condemed to hell people are given a reprieve, so where do you come up with your conclusion that you can ask for forgiveness after beind sent to hell (whether it be a lake of fire or even worse just the absence of god.  There is no indication that there is a pannic button that you can request to get back into gods good graces.   You are condemed to hell based on your lack faith "in life" alone according to matthew.  Once condemed there is not a single bible story that says you get a second chance.
"Condemned" this is where our interpretation might differ. Matthew used the word for emphasis, for us to really get how important it is to follow God.
I believe that once you are in hell there is no way to go to heaven. Jesus taught us that in one of his parables (Luke 16:19-31). So, no panic button.
I believe that even if you don't have faith at the time of your death, heaven's door are not closed to you. However, you might not want to go in and prefer staying faithless. In that case you will not go in.

Quote
isn't the CCC a book written by men to try and explain the bible and how to read it in a catholic way?  Essentially CCC is a book of opinions of the meaning of the bible?
It's a little more complex than that. But you are not totally wrong.
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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #151 on: July 04, 2014, 03:25:44 AM »
Er how could anyone at heaven facing god not believe in god??? Makes no sense and faith has no meaning once yoyu are in heaven its no longer faith its fact so how does one choose to stay faithless in heaven and be transferred to hell.


stupid, stupid, stupid.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #152 on: July 04, 2014, 04:05:44 AM »
]if we do NOT have a 100% infallible brain, it is entirely possible (and even expected) that many, many people will get the whole "god thing" wrong.  What are the consequences of getting it wrong?

The pope says that as long as you are square with your conscience there is no consequence to be afraid of.
I am.  So, I suspect, are most of the people here. 

Does that mean that there is nothing left you need to say to us?  Or, perhaps, should your focus shift away from "god", to just discussing issues around our consciences?

I believe that there are atheists in heaven. Or course they are not atheist anymore haha.
Atheists may arrive at heaven, sure.  What is your belief about atheists who arrive at heaven (due to their clear consciences), but then refuse to accept god because to do so would go against their conscience?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline dloubet

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #153 on: July 04, 2014, 04:25:01 AM »
Of course, if the Pope's right, there's the possibility that there's ONLY atheists in the supposed heaven, because they're the only ones with a conscience. They're the ones who did not accept the human sacrifice of the Jesus character on moral grounds. They're the people that think that infinite punishment for finite transgressions is wrong.
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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #154 on: July 04, 2014, 04:27:51 AM »
Stands to reason, god does not believe in a god his creator so god is an atheist.
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #155 on: July 04, 2014, 04:55:37 AM »
Er how could anyone at heaven facing god not believe in god??? Makes no sense and faith has no meaning once yoyu are in heaven its no longer faith its fact so how does one choose to stay faithless in heaven and be transferred to hell.


stupid, stupid, stupid.

So you would automatically accept the first being you met in an afterlife as god?

Dude if when you arrive in heaven you're told that you're going to be on latrine duty for the rest of eternity, you might want to question whether I've got there first  ;)

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #156 on: July 04, 2014, 05:03:46 AM »
Well you won't be able to pull that one NOW. 

but good point i will ask some questions first like ... are you god and go fron there.
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Offline SevenPatch

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #157 on: July 04, 2014, 07:39:02 AM »
Stands to reason, god does not believe in a god his creator so god is an atheist.

Presumably, "God" believes in itself so ...  does that count?
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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #158 on: July 04, 2014, 08:04:07 AM »
Not sure depends on how you define theism i guess. not sure if it covers belief and worship of ones self .....i am honestly not sure.


No wait god is uncaused so he can't believe he created himself therefore he does not believe in a creator therefore god is an atheist..... have i messed the logic up??
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 08:06:31 AM by eh! »
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #159 on: July 07, 2014, 01:38:40 AM »
Atheists may arrive at heaven, sure.  What is your belief about atheists who arrive at heaven (due to their clear consciences), but then refuse to accept god because to do so would go against their conscience?
I believe that the conscience is just another word for God's words to us. I believe that God will present himself in a form of love that they already have the habit to accept (like a kind gesture toward the other or something more personal to each individual) They will then choose him, not choosing him would be going against their conscience...and choosing "not God" is choosing hell.
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Offline Jag

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #160 on: July 07, 2014, 04:24:40 PM »
Hell's going to be mighty crowded with all the unbelievers and the vast majority of the world's theists down there by that lake of fire. I sure hope there's enough s'more's to go around...

I can think of far worse ways to spend eternity than hanging out with a bunch of rational atheists and sweet-natured Buddhists, especially if I get to completely avoid all the self-righteous christians I put up with IRL. I'm still not clear on why Hell is supposed to be so awful.

My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Defiance

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #161 on: July 08, 2014, 07:30:42 AM »
Hell's going to be mighty crowded with all the unbelievers and the vast majority of the world's theists down there by that lake of fire. I sure hope there's enough s'more's to go around...

I can think of far worse ways to spend eternity than hanging out with a bunch of rational atheists and sweet-natured Buddhists, especially if I get to completely avoid all the self-righteous christians I put up with IRL. I'm still not clear on why Hell is supposed to be so awful.
Skin, flesh burning for eternity, Sponsered by an all loving god.

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #162 on: July 08, 2014, 12:17:53 PM »
Atheists may arrive at heaven, sure.  What is your belief about atheists who arrive at heaven (due to their clear consciences), but then refuse to accept god because to do so would go against their conscience?
I believe that the conscience is just another word for God's words to us. I believe that God will present himself in a form of love that they already have the habit to accept (like a kind gesture toward the other or something more personal to each individual) They will then choose him, not choosing him would be going against their conscience...and choosing "not God" is choosing hell.

It's a happy thought - but my conscience says to me, quite clearly, that god is a monster.  Are you saying god will have to hide his nature from me in order to trick me into accepting him?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #163 on: July 08, 2014, 04:20:05 PM »
It's a happy thought - but my conscience says to me, quite clearly, that god is a monster.  Are you saying god will have to hide his nature from me in order to trick me into accepting him?
Does your conscience tells you that Catholic Christian God is a monster or that some god is a monster? I agree with you that some god (like satan) are monsters and to be accepted, hide their nature.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #164 on: July 08, 2014, 05:33:19 PM »
How do you know that the Catholic god is not doing the same thing, hiding his true nature to be accepted?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #165 on: July 08, 2014, 06:00:37 PM »
How do you know that the Catholic god is not doing the same thing, hiding his true nature to be accepted?
The same way I know my parents didn't lie to me. I experienced it.
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Offline dloubet

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #166 on: July 08, 2014, 06:15:53 PM »

 I agree with you that some god (like satan) are monsters and to be accepted, hide their nature.

But you're immune to being fooled by supernatural beings with unknown powers of persuasion, aren't you? Beings that, according to you, can fool enough people to fill the pews of every other religion except yours, can't fool you. You can't be falling for a demon pretending to be a god because you believe yourself to be infallible at the detection and identification of supernatural beings.

This is the case, right? It must be, otherwise you would be questioning your own beliefs, and we wouldn't have to prompt you.

You believe you're infallible.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 06:23:03 PM by dloubet »
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #167 on: July 08, 2014, 06:47:49 PM »
How do you know that the Catholic god is not doing the same thing, hiding his true nature to be accepted?
The same way I know my parents didn't lie to me. I experienced it.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #168 on: July 08, 2014, 08:13:33 PM »
But you're immune to being fooled by supernatural beings with unknown powers of persuasion, aren't you?
No
Quote
This is the case, right?
No
I think you need to read again the answer to the question asked. You seem to have misunderstood it.
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Offline SevenPatch

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #169 on: July 08, 2014, 11:00:07 PM »
But you're immune to being fooled by supernatural beings with unknown powers of persuasion, aren't you?
No
Quote
This is the case, right?
No

So you admit that your current beliefs regarding "God" could be based on deception?
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Offline dloubet

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #170 on: July 08, 2014, 11:17:57 PM »
But you're immune to being fooled by supernatural beings with unknown powers of persuasion, aren't you?
No

So you admit that you could be following a demon who is pretending to be god. You admit that your efforts to convince us of your position could be leading us horribly astray, to be tortured forever in a lake of fire by an angry god. You admit that your apologetics are just a means to remain in thrall to whatever you are worshipping, demon or god. You admit that as far as your faith goes, you don't really care which it is, you are simply "all-in" regardless of the nature of whatever you're worshipping. And you're openly attempting to corral others into worshipping this unknown entity, with unknown motives, towards unknown consequences.

I expect to see a picture of you in the dictionary if I look up the definition of "irresponsible".
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #171 on: July 09, 2014, 03:01:30 AM »
It's a happy thought - but my conscience says to me, quite clearly, that god is a monster.  Are you saying god will have to hide his nature from me in order to trick me into accepting him?
Does your conscience tells you that Catholic Christian God is a monster or that some god is a monster?

My conscience tells me that the god portrayed in the Bible is a monster.

To be fair though, an awful lot of gods that have been proposed over the centuries look like monsters to me, so there's nothing particularly special about the god of the Bible.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #172 on: July 09, 2014, 11:55:57 AM »
So you admit that your current beliefs regarding "God" could be based on deception?
Yes. And so are your beliefs too! Even 1+1 might not equal 2. That's the power of "if" and "might".
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Reply #173 on: July 09, 2014, 12:00:34 PM »
But you're immune to being fooled by supernatural beings with unknown powers of persuasion, aren't you?
No

So you admit that you could be following a demon who is pretending to be god. You admit that your efforts to convince us of your position could be leading us horribly astray, to be tortured forever in a lake of fire by an angry god. You admit that your apologetics are just a means to remain in thrall to whatever you are worshipping, demon or god. You admit that as far as your faith goes, you don't really care which it is, you are simply "all-in" regardless of the nature of whatever you're worshipping. And you're openly attempting to corral others into worshipping this unknown entity, with unknown motives, towards unknown consequences.

I expect to see a picture of you in the dictionary if I look up the definition of "irresponsible".
No
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