Author Topic: Why did god create angels, and after the angels turned on him make man?  (Read 2701 times)

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Offline Graybeard

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Someone once advanced the idea that a "place" without time would be a "place" where everything happens simultaneously.
Yes, he was out of his head on drugs when he said that and he offered no proof at all.

If there were no time, nothing would happen at all. All things take time to happen: no time -> nothing happens.

I'm glad to have cleared that up for you.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

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Does love exist?

Are you talking about the warm scrummy emotion that people get, when they hug teddy bears, or the action that people do, when they have cared for someone for a long time?

There are 2 parts to "love": the emotion, and the action.

If God loves us, then he has that warm scrummy feeling, when he tortures us.
If he feels responsibility towards us, then it's a broader type of responsibility that only cares about his own objectives.

God might love us in a broader sense, but it's only speculation.

Christians like to pretend that God is teaching us lessons, because the universe teaches us lots of lessons. If it didn't then we wouldn't need a brain, or need to adapt. Any form of adaptation or learning can be explained as in response to God's "love". If a monkey falls off a tree, and breaks its spine, then God taught it a lesson out of love. Everything must be "love", because then otherwise God is hate.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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I left this empty.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline epidemic

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Someone once advanced the idea that a "place" without time would be a "place" where everything happens simultaneously.
Yes, he was out of his head on drugs when he said that and he offered no proof at all.

If there were no time, nothing would happen at all. All things take time to happen: no time -> nothing happens.

I'm glad to have cleared that up for you.

Being a temporal being,  living in a 4 dimensional world I can not imagine what being in a world/place without time constraints would look like.  It could be a place where nothing happens, or everything happens at once.  But in a world with out time I would guess there would be no change of state if everything happens all the time it seems more active but since everything happens would look alot like nothing happening :o

Offline Lukvance

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If something exists, by definition, it exists in time and space.
That is the very definition of "exist", having location. Location can only be had in the Space dimension.
[...]
Like I have said; thoughts and concepts exist because they are physical mental and brain processes.
Do you see a conflict here? What is the location of love?
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Online Nam

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If something exists, by definition, it exists in time and space.
That is the very definition of "exist", having location. Location can only be had in the Space dimension.
[...]
Like I have said; thoughts and concepts exist because they are physical mental and brain processes.
Do you see a conflict here? What is the location of love?

http://www.loves.com/locateus/locationmap.aspx

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline epidemic

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If something exists, by definition, it exists in time and space.
That is the very definition of "exist", having location. Location can only be had in the Space dimension.
[...]
Like I have said; thoughts and concepts exist because they are physical mental and brain processes.
Do you see a conflict here? What is the location of love?

ummmm, clearly love resides in the electro chemical connections of the brain.

I can chemically change your perception of love with surgery on the human brain and likewise I believe I could do the same with well timed and chosen chemicals designed to target brain chemistry..
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 01:24:57 PM by epidemic »

Offline Lukvance

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If there were no time, nothing would happen at all. All things take time to happen: no time -> nothing happens.
I'm glad to have cleared that up for you.
How do you know that? Even the most advanced scientist don't know what happened "before" the big bang (when there was no time)
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If there were no time, nothing would happen at all. All things take time to happen: no time -> nothing happens.
I'm glad to have cleared that up for you.
How do you know that? Even the most advanced scientist don't know what happened "before" the big bang (when there was no time)

And yet you, not an "advanced scientist" can say there was no "time" -- how do you know that?

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline epidemic

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If there were no time, nothing would happen at all. All things take time to happen: no time -> nothing happens.
I'm glad to have cleared that up for you.
How do you know that? Even the most advanced scientist don't know what happened "before" the big bang (when there was no time)


Well duh, in the absence of time space and matter you have a big bang.

Offline Defiance

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If something exists, by definition, it exists in time and space.
That is the very definition of "exist", having location. Location can only be had in the Space dimension.
[...]
Like I have said; thoughts and concepts exist because they are physical mental and brain processes.
Do you see a conflict here? What is the location of love?
This is an emotion caused by chemical processes in the brain. There, time, when ever you feel it, and space, in the brain.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline screwtape

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Do you see a conflict here? What is the location of love?

What does blue smell like?

Just because you can string words together does not mean they make a coherent thought.
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Offline nogodsforme

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I think that Lukvance has "restless fingers syndrome" where his hands keep typing long after he has stopped thinking.....or he is having a laugh on us.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Lukvance

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Haha scewrtape and nogodsforme. Are you sure you read correctly? It's easy to judge. My words made sense... in their context.

According to Defiance the location of love is the brain.
You're worth more than my time

Online Nam

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Haha scewrtape and nogodsforme. Are you sure you read correctly? It's easy to judge. My words made sense... in their context.

According to Defiance the location of love is the brain.

Context of idiom or is that idiotdumb?


-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Defiance

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Haha scewrtape and nogodsforme. Are you sure you read correctly? It's easy to judge. My words made sense... in their context.

According to Defiance the location of love is the brain.

Yes, the emotion of love is located in our brain. That is a perception we create.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

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Yes, the emotion of love is located in our brain. That is a perception we create.

...and it's completely irrelevant to the topic of God, since God's love is not human love.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline screwtape

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Haha scewrtape and nogodsforme. Are you sure you read correctly?

Haha yourself. Yes, I read correctly.  Are you sure you did?  Because if you did, you sure did not think about what I said very carefully.

My words made sense... in their context.

then your words and their context need more explanation.

According to Defiance the location of love is the brain.

In a way, Defiance is right.  But I don't think you understand what he is saying.
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Offline Mrjason

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...and it's completely irrelevant to the topic of God, since God's love is not human love.

...it's love Jim, but not as we know it.

Offline Lukvance

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Haha scewrtape and nogodsforme. Are you sure you read correctly?

Haha yourself. Yes, I read correctly.  Are you sure you did?  Because if you did, you sure did not think about what I said very carefully.

My words made sense... in their context.

then your words and their context need more explanation.

According to Defiance the location of love is the brain.

In a way, Defiance is right.  But I don't think you understand what he is saying.
Is it my English that is bad? and you made fun of it?
Should I have asked Where is the location of love?
He said :
That is the very definition of "exist", having location.
I asked :
What is the location of love?
You replied :
What does blue smell like?
Just because you can string words together does not mean they make a coherent thought.
You're worth more than my time

Offline screwtape

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Is it my English that is bad? and you made fun of it?

I don't know where the disconnect is.  It could be your English or it could be your ideas.  But I was not making fun.  I was giving an example of a nonsensical question.


He said :
That is the very definition of "exist", having location.

Well, I would disagree with him.  Where is Harry Potter?  Where is the number 1?  I would say it depends on the way the thing in question exists.
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Offline Lukvance

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He said :
That is the very definition of "exist", having location.
I asked :
What is the location of love?
You replied :
What does blue smell like?
Just because you can string words together does not mean they make a coherent thought.
screwtape, do we agree that I am making sense if you read the context? And that, contrary as you stated, my question was the result of a coherent thought?
You're worth more than my time

Offline screwtape

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screwtape, do we agree that I am making sense if you read the context? And that, contrary as you stated, my question was the result of a coherent thought?

yes.  It was my mistake.  I apologize.
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Offline Defiance

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Is it my English that is bad? and you made fun of it?

I don't know where the disconnect is.  It could be your English or it could be your ideas.  But I was not making fun.  I was giving an example of a nonsensical question.


He said :
That is the very definition of "exist", having location.

Well, I would disagree with him.  Where is Harry Potter?  Where is the number 1?  I would say it depends on the way the thing in question exists.

My mistake as well. Exist as in a concept in your head, which is still location (ex: harry Potter, or any other made up stories), and Exist as in a car located on earth.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Defiance

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Is it my English that is bad? and you made fun of it?

I don't know where the disconnect is.  It could be your English or it could be your ideas.  But I was not making fun.  I was giving an example of a nonsensical question.


He said :
That is the very definition of "exist", having location.

Well, I would disagree with him.  Where is Harry Potter?  Where is the number 1?  I would say it depends on the way the thing in question exists.

My mistake as well. Exist as in a concept in your head, which is still location (ex: harry Potter, or any other made up stories), and Exist as in a car located on earth.
SO YEAH

God exists as a concept in your head. However, before you were alive, that concept was not there in your head. And therefore, you created the concept of God yourself.

He does not exist as a physical concept that can interact with anything on his own.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline nogodsforme

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If religion made sense, we wouldn't have to be here on this site discussing why religion does not make sense....just trying to prevent the brain explosions that seem imminent due to Lukvance's metaphysical and semantic fancy dancing.

He is doing all the stupid theist tricks: challenge the meanings of common words (what is the meaning of "location"? what is the meaning of exist"?) , demand definitions that he is not willing to give, slide between fantasy and reality as needed to keep from answering directly, operate from a "well this could be the case" standpoint without any evidence.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Lukvance

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God exists as a concept in your head. However, before you were alive, that concept was not there in your head. And therefore, you created the concept of God yourself.
Isn't that the same thing with love? Before you were alive, the concept of love was not there in your head. If I follow your logic, you created the concept of love yourself?

Ps : since this is relevant to our debate I copied it there.
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Offline Lukvance

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If religion made sense, we wouldn't have to be here on this site discussing why religion does not make sense....just trying to prevent the brain explosions that seem imminent due to Lukvance's metaphysical and semantic fancy dancing.

He is doing all the stupid theist tricks: challenge the meanings of common words (what is the meaning of "location"? what is the meaning of exist"?) , demand definitions that he is not willing to give, slide between fantasy and reality as needed to keep from answering directly, operate from a "well this could be the case" standpoint without any evidence.
Tell yourself a lie enough time and you will start believing it. Tell it out loud and some might even agree with you.
You're worth more than my time

Offline Defiance

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If religion made sense, we wouldn't have to be here on this site discussing why religion does not make sense....just trying to prevent the brain explosions that seem imminent due to Lukvance's metaphysical and semantic fancy dancing.

He is doing all the stupid theist tricks: challenge the meanings of common words (what is the meaning of "location"? what is the meaning of exist"?) , demand definitions that he is not willing to give, slide between fantasy and reality as needed to keep from answering directly, operate from a "well this could be the case" standpoint without any evidence.
Tell yourself a lie enough time and you will start believing it. Tell it out loud and some might even agree with you.

I'm glad you finally realize what you've been doing. :)
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.