Author Topic: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?  (Read 7994 times)

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Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #667 on: June 17, 2014, 12:40:03 PM »
No, I think that singularities exist in the universe. It's when the physical laws do not make sense anymore. (like the black holes)

And this answers my question how? Surely there is nothing that does not make sense to an omnipotent and omniscient "God", especially when you consider (for the sake of argument) that he was the one to have created/implemented these physical laws in the first place.

If I am understanding the gist of your reply, "God" is arbitrary in regards to if, how and when he decides to violate physical laws, correct?

Quote
That could be a possibility indeed. But I think that it would have consequences maybe outside of our comprehension.

But not outside "God's" comprehension.

With that in mind, please reconsider my original post and respond accordingly.
The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

The only thing bigger than the universe is humanity's collective sense of self-importance.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #668 on: June 17, 2014, 12:56:11 PM »
I still don't understand how god growing back a human being's arm would violate some physical law and create a cosmic disaster. Isn't being outside of normal physical laws the whole point of being a god anyway?

We cut off our fingernails and hair-- they grow back without blowing up the universe. Other living things can grow back all sorts of parts that get cut off. God decided that making worms and newts regenerate would be okay, but that the universe might disintegrate if humans grew back fingers, toes, hands, arms, or legs? WTF?

I know that one answer that theists give to the amputee questions is that "god only works through human beings now".[1]But when humans eventually figure out how to grow back arms and legs it will be a miracle from god, just based on the hard work of humans using that evil atheistic science!

This is tantamount to saying god is limited to what humans can do! There are lots of things that god could never do, no matter how much people prayed: communicate instantly around the world, cure smallpox, separate conjoined twins, put people into outer space, take out a damaged organ and put in a new one, make babies for infertile people using their own cells.

All of these things were at one time considered violations of god's holy laws. And all these things became possible when humans figured out how to do them. They have become so ordinary that they barely make the news. When humans perform god's miracles everyday, god gets even smaller.

No wonder god has stopped shouting at people from mountaintops and now hides behind sub-atomic particles. &)
 1. That way disease epidemics and natural disasters like floods, tornadoes and earthquakes are no longer caused by god--except when you can blame the gays.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #669 on: June 17, 2014, 12:56:22 PM »
Lukvance:
So please do tell how I am supposed to believe something I do not believe in?  any attempt to do so would appear to me as false.  I am a stick of butter, i am a stick of butter, I am a stick of butter... Nope i still do not believe I am a stick of butter.
God is real, god is real, god is real.  But as i say that I filter the statement through my mind and life experiences and conclude I am just saying a falsehood
Do you want to believe in God? This is a road that might be harder than the one you are on right now. But I think we digress from the subject don't we?
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #670 on: June 17, 2014, 01:13:35 PM »
No, I think that singularities exist in the universe. It's when the physical laws do not make sense anymore. (like the black holes)

And this answers my question how? Surely there is nothing that does not make sense to an omnipotent and omniscient "God", especially when you consider (for the sake of argument) that he was the one to have created/implemented these physical laws in the first place.
The answer to your question was No. I don't know why this doesn't answer your question since it was a yes or no question.
Everything make sense to God.

Quote
If I am understanding the gist of your reply, "God" is arbitrary in regards to if, how and when he decides to violate physical laws, correct?
I believe that God "can" doesn't mean that he "will" I believe that he allows the physical law of conservation to be broken, not that he causes it. He created the Universe and it's laws, there are catastrophic events that happen when these laws are not respected but then again I believe he wrote the laws on what will happen if the original law was to be broken.

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With that in mind, please reconsider my original post and respond accordingly.
I'm sorry maybe there is something implied in this original post that I apparently don't get. If I did not answer your question in this reply, please reformulate the question.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #671 on: June 17, 2014, 01:22:41 PM »
I still don't understand how god growing back a human being's arm would violate some physical law and create a cosmic disaster. Isn't being outside of normal physical laws the whole point of being a god anyway?
No.
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We cut off our fingernails and hair-- they grow back without blowing up the universe. Other living things can grow back all sorts of parts that get cut off. God decided that making worms and newts regenerate would be okay, but that the universe might disintegrate if humans grew back fingers, toes, hands, arms, or legs? WTF?
Not at all. I am surprised that you could interpret that from my answer.
"Nothing is lost, nothing is created" means that God usually don't create out of nothing (even if he did, at one time). EVOLUTION is what make human incapable of growing back fingers,...etc

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I know that one answer that theists give to the amputee questions is that "god only works through human beings now".[1]But when humans eventually figure out how to grow back arms and legs it will be a miracle from god, just based on the hard work of humans using that evil atheistic science!
 1. That way disease epidemics and natural disasters like floods, tornadoes and earthquakes are no longer caused by god--except when you can blame the gays.
That is your opinion. I don't believe science to be evil at all.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #672 on: June 17, 2014, 01:34:55 PM »


No wonder god has stopped shouting at people from mountaintops and now hides behind sub-atomic particles. &)

Really Really Really Long ago: Created a Universe in under a week
Really Really Long ago: Flooded the Earth with more water than exists on it
Really Long ago: Parted Red Sea, and Caused plagues
Long ago: Healed the Blind and Lame, Raised people from the dead
A While ago: Caused wounds to mysteriously appear on faithful, protected the occasional cleric from disaster
Recently: Can make an appearance on a tortilla

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline epidemic

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #673 on: June 17, 2014, 01:43:23 PM »
Lukvance:
So please do tell how I am supposed to believe something I do not believe in?  any attempt to do so would appear to me as false.  I am a stick of butter, i am a stick of butter, I am a stick of butter... Nope i still do not believe I am a stick of butter.
God is real, god is real, god is real.  But as i say that I filter the statement through my mind and life experiences and conclude I am just saying a falsehood
Do you want to believe in God? This is a road that might be harder than the one you are on right now. But I think we digress from the subject don't we?

Absolutely not.  I want to believe in the truth and fact.  If God happens to be truth and fact then sure I want to "believe" in him.  I guess I also take issue with the word believe.   I see much more value in knowledge than belief.  Belief is something you do until you can amass enough information to know something.  belief is much more easily mislead confused and incorrect.  To me belief is like a theory or hypothosis waiting to be proven.

However, I do not see god as truth and fact so for me to believe in God would be delude myself.  Asking me If I want to believe in god is like asking me If I want to believe in Santa.  Or if I want to believe the WTC was taken down by thermite bombs planted by the illuminatti.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 01:47:38 PM by epidemic »

Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #674 on: June 17, 2014, 01:54:10 PM »
No, I think that singularities exist in the universe. It's when the physical laws do not make sense anymore. (like the black holes)
----
The answer to your question was No. I don't know why this doesn't answer your question since it was a yes or no question.

You answered "no", followed by, what, a statement? Opinion? What was your purpose for mentioning "physical laws not making sense anymore" in relation to answering my original question:

Quote
So, according to your statement, your concept of "God" adheres to the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy? If yes, does he adhere to it in all cases?
?

I believe I know the answer, but would rather give you the opportunity to clarify your response first.

Going solely by your answer of "no", you are claiming that "God" does not need to adhere to the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy ("Nothing is lost, nothing is created") if he so chooses. That logically implies that he can choose to create anything he wishes (regrowing/creating a new limb) regardless of the Law of Conversation of Mass-Energy.

One other fact to consider: he would not even need to "borrow" matter from elsewhere to do so. The original matter that comprised the now missing limb are still available. "God" can simply "stitch them back together" to recreate the original limb.

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I believe that God "can" doesn't mean that he "will" I believe that he allows the physical law of conservation to be broken, not that he causes it.

This is nonsensical. If only he (as an omnipotent being who created the physical laws in the first place) has the power to break the physical laws he had put it place, then he by necessity was the one to cause them to be broken.

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After all,  He created the Universe and it's laws, there are catastrophic events that happen when these laws are not respected but then again I believe he wrote the laws on what will happen if the original law was to be broken.

Again, only this "God" has the power to break his own physical laws he himself had created. Any "catastrophic events" that would be the by-product of his breaking his own physical laws are also solely of his own discretion.

So, to recap. Your original comment I was responding to:

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I believe he can heal amputees but he wants to follow his laws. Nothing is lost, nothing is created

My response:

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So, according to your statement, your concept of "God" adheres to the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy?

Your response:

Quote
No

Conclusion: "He wants to", yet "does not adhere to the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy".

So, why can't "God" heal amputees?

The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

The only thing bigger than the universe is humanity's collective sense of self-importance.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #675 on: June 17, 2014, 08:37:16 PM »
Breaking the law of conservation. We (humans) are able to do that (little black holes in accelerators). Contrary to what you think God is not the only one who can break the physical laws of nature.
I don't believe that God "move molecules" in this world beside some rare miracles here and there. Most of the time he just change lives like he did with mine.
Why would God not "move molecules" to heal amputees? I believe because that move would have consequences worst than someone living without a limb.
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Offline Defiance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #676 on: June 17, 2014, 08:39:45 PM »
Breaking the law of conservation. We (humans) are able to do that (little black holes in accelerators). Contrary to what you think God is not the only one who can break the physical laws of nature.
I don't believe that God "move molecules" in this world beside some rare miracles here and there. Most of the time he just change lives like he did with mine.
Why would God not "move molecules" to heal amputees? I believe because that move would have consequences worst than someone living without a limb.
False. Explain how you think microscopic black holes violate conservation of mass.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #677 on: June 17, 2014, 10:32:33 PM »
Breaking the law of conservation. We (humans) are able to do that (little black holes in accelerators). Contrary to what you think God is not the only one who can break the physical laws of nature.
I don't believe that God "move molecules" in this world beside some rare miracles here and there. Most of the time he just change lives like he did with mine.
Why would God not "move molecules" to heal amputees? I believe because that move would have consequences worst than someone living without a limb.

You have yet to address why god is okay with "moving some molecules" so other living things can grow back severed limbs but not humans. And why god "moves some molecules" so we can cut off other parts (hair, etc) and have them grow back without endangering the universe. Also, when humans figure out how to "move some molecules" and use stem cells or whatever to grow back human limbs, will it destroy the universe? If not (and it will not) why can't god rearrange some molecules and do that now?

This being wants people bowing down in worship, and all it can do is give you some nice feelings about yourself and make a bus run on time? Once every few billion prayers, it throws in a random event that people don't understand, I mean a "miracle". It is "undetectable and immaterial" (ie "nonexistent") so it cannot even show up in a physical form so everyone, even atheists, can detect it and decide whether it is worthy of worship or not.[1]

You keep telling us he is the most powerful being ever, the best and smartest and of all, creator of everything, capable of anything, maker of miracles.

Then, when we start asking for some specifics, we get a lot of hemming and hawing and excuses and maybes about how if god actually showed up in an unmistakeable form and did anything, well, godly, it would turn out soooo badly that we would really regret it. So we need to shut up, stop asking stupid questions, quit peeking behind the curtain, and get back to praying.

You realize, Lukvance, you have drastically reduced your god to nothing more than a con man in a dream.

Have you seen this movie? Might be worth a looky.


BTW, this humorously critical "review" could just as easily be used to take apart YOUR ILLOGICAL RELIGIOUS BELIEFS!!!!!!111!!!1

Ahem.
 1. Oprah makes people feel good, pays for kids to go to school, and gives people cars. She even shows up in a physical form. I think Oprah is more worthy of worship than your god. And I don't even like Oprah.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #678 on: June 18, 2014, 01:37:51 AM »
False. Explain how you think microscopic black holes violate conservation of mass.

I would also like to hear this, Luk.

I don't believe that God "move molecules" in this world beside some rare miracles here and there. Most of the time he just change lives like he did with mine.

Notice the bolded words? You have just contradicted your own claim. From your statement above your "God" obviously did "move molecules" while performing certain miracles, just not the regrowing of limbs-type.

Therefore, your "God" by your own admission is unconcerned with the "consequences" of "moving molecules" in  order to achieve certain miraculous healing effects, such as curing someone of cancer or enabling the blind to see.

Again, why can't "God" heal amputees?
The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

The only thing bigger than the universe is humanity's collective sense of self-importance.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #679 on: June 18, 2014, 12:43:08 PM »
Breaking the law of conservation. We (humans) are able to do that (little black holes in accelerators). Contrary to what you think God is not the only one who can break the physical laws of nature.
I don't believe that God "move molecules" in this world beside some rare miracles here and there. Most of the time he just change lives like he did with mine.
Why would God not "move molecules" to heal amputees? I believe because that move would have consequences worst than someone living without a limb.

You have yet to address why god is okay with "moving some molecules" so other living things can grow back severed limbs but not humans. And why god "moves some molecules" so we can cut off other parts (hair, etc) and have them grow back without endangering the universe. Also, when humans figure out how to "move some molecules" and use stem cells or whatever to grow back human limbs, will it destroy the universe? If not (and it will not) why can't god rearrange some molecules and do that now?
Please read Reply #671

Quote
This being wants people bowing down...
<snip>
...Ahem.
So much to say about your own opinion. Could you stop using this thread to vent?
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #680 on: June 18, 2014, 12:53:57 PM »
No, I think that singularities exist in the universe. It's when the physical laws do not make sense anymore. (like the black holes)

And this answers my question how? Surely there is nothing that does not make sense to an omnipotent and omniscient "God", especially when you consider (for the sake of argument) that he was the one to have created/implemented these physical laws in the first place.
The answer to your question was No. I don't know why this doesn't answer your question since it was a yes or no question.
Everything make sense to God.
You just made up that answer, didn't you? You said the first thing that came into your head, even though it cannot be true.

There are a lot of Christians who think it is just fine to say anything at all about God, even if it contradicts the Bible completely, just as long as it supports what they think.

Tell me, Lukvance why is it so easy for you to give answers that you know are wrong? Not only do you know they are wrong, but God says they are wrong because they are not the same as His Answers.

There is a meme "Liars for Christ" http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=13191.10;wap2 (The poster used some strong language - beware)

Please do not join that group.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #681 on: June 18, 2014, 12:58:50 PM »
False. Explain how you think microscopic black holes violate conservation of mass.
I would also like to hear this, Luk.
Do you know what happen in the center of a black hole? All physics break lose. "the singularity is something that becomes something infinitely large" - Sabine Hossenfelder
"No one can be sure that their singularity doesn't describe a physical reality, Hossfelder told Life's Little Mysteries. But most physicists would say that the singularity, as theorized by equations, doesn't really exist. If the singularity was "really real," then it would mean that "energy density was infinitely large at one point," exactly the center of the black hole, she said."[1]

Quote
Therefore, your "God" by your own admission is unconcerned with the "consequences" of "moving molecules" in  order to achieve certain miraculous healing effects, such as curing someone of cancer or enabling the blind to see.
Again, why can't "God" heal amputees?
Again :
Why would God not "move molecules" to heal amputees? I believe because that move would have consequences worst than someone living without a limb.
 1. http://www.livescience.com/32662-whats-at-the-center-of-black-holes-.html
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #682 on: June 18, 2014, 01:02:21 PM »
Quote
This being wants people bowing down...
<snip>
...Ahem.
So much to say about your own opinion. Could you stop using this thread to vent?

Ro:14:11: For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Ph'p:2:10: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;


Lukvance,

You repeatedly refuse to address points by saying "It is your opinion".

In this case it is not an opinion, it is fact: read your Bible[1], try to discover what sort of god you are worshipping.

Quite seriously, if you persist in using "it is your opinion" rather than giving a counter argument, I will have no choice but to advise that your posting rights are restricted.

GB Mod
 1. it is obvious that you have never done this.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Defiance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #683 on: June 18, 2014, 02:45:43 PM »
"Neither the existence nor the behavior of black holes violates conservation laws. All matter and energy falling into a black hole increase its mass, with the energy converted into mass via Einstein's E=mc2.

The eventual 'evaporation' of black holes via the emission of so called Hawking radiation reverses the process, changing mass into energy, but the total mass and energy of the system is still conserved."

Answered by: Paul Walorski, B.A. Physics, Part-time Physics Instructor from http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae76.cfm

An answer short and sweet.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #684 on: June 18, 2014, 05:31:04 PM »
Quote
This being wants people bowing down...
<snip>
...Ahem.
So much to say about your own opinion. Could you stop using this thread to vent?

Ro:14:11: For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Ph'p:2:10: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;


Lukvance,

You repeatedly refuse to address points by saying "It is your opinion".

In this case it is not an opinion, it is fact: read your Bible[1], try to discover what sort of god you are worshipping.

Quite seriously, if you persist in using "it is your opinion" rather than giving a counter argument, I will have no choice but to advise that your posting rights are restricted.

GB Mod

 1. it is obvious that you have never done this.
I don't understand. How is this an argument against "God does not heal amputees because of the consequences of this miracle"?
You're worth more than my time

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #685 on: June 18, 2014, 05:36:04 PM »
"Neither the existence nor the behavior of black holes violates conservation laws. All matter and energy falling into a black hole increase its mass, with the energy converted into mass via Einstein's E=mc2.
The eventual 'evaporation' of black holes via the emission of so called Hawking radiation reverses the process, changing mass into energy, but the total mass and energy of the system is still conserved."
Answered by: Paul Walorski, B.A. Physics, Part-time Physics Instructor from http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae76.cfm
An answer short and sweet.
Yeah right, going from "energy density infinitely large" to "Hawking radiation" Don't you think there is something missing?
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Offline Defiance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #686 on: June 18, 2014, 06:09:41 PM »
Missing? Lukvance, I'll summarise it for you.
When a black hole is formed, the matter is packed so densely, it even prevents light from escaping. That is what we had always thought, that nothing escaped it. But Stephen Hawking theorised a radiation escaping from it, VERY slowly, but one that would lead to the eventual decay of the black hole.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation , click Black Hole Radiation.

In addition, there's formulas that allow for nice predictions.

One more thing, we are not sure of the centre of the black hole, as we know that density does asymptotly approach infinity, we just don't know what goes on there. Like the "before" of the Big Bang, this area is also under research.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #687 on: June 18, 2014, 06:32:18 PM »
Missing? Lukvance, I'll summarise it for you.
When a black hole is formed, the matter is packed so densely, it even prevents light from escaping. That is what we had always thought, that nothing escaped it. But Stephen Hawking theorised a radiation escaping from it, VERY slowly, but one that would lead to the eventual decay of the black hole.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation , click Black Hole Radiation.

In addition, there's formulas that allow for nice predictions.

One more thing, we are not sure of the centre of the black hole, as we know that density does asymptotly approach infinity, we just don't know what goes on there. Like the "before" of the Big Bang, this area is also under research.
My point is that we don't know because we don't have physical laws to rule what is going on there.
Anyway, my point in this discussion is that the consequences of God healing one amputee is too much to pay. What is your counter argument?
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Offline Defiance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #688 on: June 18, 2014, 06:36:45 PM »
First prove god exists, then we talk.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Defiance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #689 on: June 18, 2014, 06:42:57 PM »
Now that my first Smite is in, I'm not afraid.

Prove that God exists on our debate, or concede. That's the deal, take it or leave it.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #690 on: June 19, 2014, 09:02:42 AM »
I don't understand. How is this an argument against "God does not heal amputees because of the consequences of this miracle"?
Lukvance:

I really do not care whether you understand anything: just comply with a moderator's directions.

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Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #691 on: June 19, 2014, 03:31:15 PM »
I don't understand. How is this an argument against "God does not heal amputees because of the consequences of this miracle"?
Lukvance:
I really do not care whether you understand anything: just comply with a moderator's directions.
GB
Mod

How can I follow the direction if I DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM and CAN'T even ASK for explanation(s)?
You're worth more than my time

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #692 on: June 19, 2014, 04:32:13 PM »
Lukvance, my comments in #677 are reflecting what you have told us about what your god does, and what your god wants. Not my "own opinion" about gods. I don't have any "opinion" about any gods, just like I have no opinion about unicorns, ghosts, fairies or any other imaginary magical things. They do not exist, they are not real, so how can I have an opinion about them?

I do have an opinion about what you say about gods, and what your sacred text says about gods. Your sacred text tells us what your god wants--bowing down and worship. That is what you are now disputing, what you have actually said right here in front of all of us. You are disagreeing that god wants our worship although that is what the bible states.[1]

You also deny that god helps you get your bus on time, when you stated that god helped you get your bus on time. You are now saying that god does not make you feel better, when you clearly stated that god makes you feel better. You are now denying that god performs a random miracle once every billion or so prayers. After citing healings at Lourdes that affirm exactly that.

You stated that god cannot (or will not or should not) grow an arm or leg back onto a human being. Because of black holes or some such. You still will not or cannot address why god allows other beings to grow back limbs, but not humans. Or why cut hair and nails can grow back, nothing ventured nothing gained (or whatever you just made up) without creating a black hole singularity (or whatever you just made up).[2]

Do you not see that my conclusion-- you have reduced your god from the most powerful being in the universe to a make-believe con man in a dream--  is not my opinion, but rather a logical summation based on what you have told us and what your bible says?

Again, I wonder if you have reading comprehension problems, or trouble drawing a clear logical line from point a to b to c.

 1. I know that when push comes to shove, you don't really believe most of the things the bible says. Like many Christians, you know that it makes no sense as a guide to modern life. That is the one thing in your favor, although it makes discussion difficult.
 2. Again we get the leap from "god is a real person who is everywhere and does everything for everyone all the time" to "god is an immaterial force that hides somewhere only detectable by a handful of [probably atheist] theoretical physics geniuses".
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #693 on: June 19, 2014, 04:53:25 PM »
Again, I wonder if you have reading comprehension problems, or trouble drawing a clear logical line from point a to b to c.

I don't think that Lukvance understands that when he answers a question or makes a post, that we assume that whatever he says applies to other posts he makes.

He answers questions to placate the questioner, not to answer the question, so in his mind he has no requirements for a consistent viewpoint.  He just throws sh*t out there and see what makes people stop asking questions.  He doesn't need to worry about the other implications that his answer has on his viewpoint.  I suspect the concept of 'the follow-up question' was foreign to him until he joined this forum.

I would guess he would find no problem with a conversation like this:
Person A: Why won't my car start?
Lukvance: Because it doesn't have an engine.
Person A: Oh.  So what's this big block thingie inside this car?
Lukvance: That's the car's engine.
Person A: Didn't you just say that the car doesn't have an engine?
Lukvance: Stop changing the subject.  We're talking about what the big block thingie is inside the car.
Person A: Um okay but then why won't my car start?
Lukvance: I just told you.  It's because the car doesn't have an engine.
Person A: What the hell.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #694 on: June 19, 2014, 05:48:49 PM »
You stated that god cannot (or will not or should not) grow an arm or leg back onto a human being. Because of black holes or some such. You still will not or cannot address why god allows other beings to grow back limbs, but not humans. Or why cut hair and nails can grow back, nothing ventured nothing gained (or whatever you just made up) without creating a black hole singularity (or whatever you just made up).[1]
 1. Again we get the leap from "god is a real person who is everywhere and does everything for everyone all the time" to "god is an immaterial force that hides somewhere only detectable by a handful of [probably atheist] theoretical physics geniuses".
Let me quote you the answer you can find since Reply #671:
We cut off our fingernails and hair-- they grow back without blowing up the universe. Other living things can grow back all sorts of parts that get cut off. God decided that making worms and newts regenerate would be okay, but that the universe might disintegrate if humans grew back fingers, toes, hands, arms, or legs? WTF?
Not at all. I am surprised that you could interpret that from my answer.
"Nothing is lost, nothing is created" means that God usually don't create out of nothing (even if he did, at one time). EVOLUTION is what make human incapable of growing back fingers,...etc
You're worth more than my time

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why can't/wont god heal amputees?
« Reply #695 on: June 19, 2014, 10:09:03 PM »
Not to get too pedantic or anything, but didn't you say that god did miracle healings? Just not growing back arms, etc.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.