Author Topic: what is the definiton of existence  (Read 304 times)

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what is the definiton of existence
« on: April 02, 2014, 05:20:02 PM »
and what is the definition of non-existence and can a volume of non-existence exist or be created?


just askin
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: what is the definiton of existence
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2014, 05:36:01 PM »
We would have to ask being that don't exist how things work under those circumstances, but we can't. Which is just as well, because they wouldn't actually know anything anyway.

As being who do exist, we can't imagine non-existence, so a better definition would probably do little good. Our imaginations would still run too wild to be accurate.

But ask me again when I'm dead. That's probably a close second to non-existence.

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Re: what is the definiton of existence
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2014, 06:50:57 PM »
but we could examine yr remains and conclude they exist and are yours even if YOU were not aware of them (cos you is dead) so clearly consciousness and existence are proverbial apples and oranges.
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what is the definiton of existence
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 07:34:37 PM »
I don't think that there can be (exist) a consistant definition of existence!!

Cogito ergo sum (I think, therefore I am) --- René Descartes.

Or you could read Jean-Paul Sartre and  existentialismWiki.

You all could just be a figment of my imagination!!

At least I know I exist because I think, I think.

Anyway, I think, what every sentient object thinks about its own existence (and other possible existences) is relative to its world view.

If you are alone in space and you scream and nobody else hears it does your scream exist from anybody Else's point of view? What if you were deaf does the sound of your scream exist?

I think existence is relative as is nonexistence. But then I would say that anyway  :D
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Re: what is the definiton of existence
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 07:53:28 PM »
my question needs clarification; not asking about, psychological, spititual, logical, phillosophical, linguistic acrobatics...etc.

 i am simply asking what existence means (definiton) in a purely physical/physicsey//chemistry-ey/measurey type way and what non-existence means in same way.

as an aside i think non existence and nothingness share some traits (i think) but i do not think they are they same thing, but i am not sure.


hi rel, i think the whole ying - yang thing is seriously gay hippie mumbo-jumbo, but then i would say that anyway.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 07:55:24 PM by eh! »
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Offline relativetruth

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Re: what is the definiton of existence
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 08:12:09 PM »
Does the colour red exist?
We may agree that a particular apple is red. But how would you define the redness that you see compared to the redness that I see. We could use science for a definition using a range of wavelengths of light but we would then be using instruments for measuring not our eyes.

At what point does red become pink? Could we come to a mutual agreement on this?
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Re: what is the definiton of existence
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2014, 08:23:22 PM »
my question needs clarification; not asking about, psychological, spititual, logical, phillosophical, linguistic acrobatics...etc.

 i am simply asking what existence means (definiton) in a purely physical/physicsey//chemistry-ey/measurey type way and what non-existence means in same way.

as an aside i think non existence and nothingness share some traits (i think) but i do not think they are they same thing, but i am not sure.


hi rel, i think the whole ying - yang thing is seriously gay hippie mumbo-jumbo, but then i would say that anyway.

And I am saying that even in science there is no simple definition/explanation to existence as the Uncertainty principleWiki illustrates.
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Re: what is the definiton of existence
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2014, 09:12:29 PM »
how you perceive red and i do does not matter as long as we can agree with the consensus view of what red and pink are, which can be unambiguosly defined.

i wasn't asking for a simple explanation, just an explanation. don't how HUP fits in here.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: what is the definiton of existence
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 12:52:31 PM »
From The Oxford English Dictionary (on-line subscription only:

existence, n. abstract noun
The state of being existent.
 
†1. Actuality, reality. Obsolete.(Opposed to apparence: the French words often so occur in the Roman de la Rose.)
c1384   Chaucer Hous of Fame i. 266   Allas what harme dothe Apparence Whan hit is fals in existence.
c1400   Rom. Rose 5552   To se Hym that is freend in existence From hym that is by apparence.
1430   Lydgate tr. Hist. Troy i. v,   A deceyte is couertly yment..As it were sothe in very existence.

2. a. Being; the fact or state of existing; ‘actual possession of being’ (Johnson). in existence: as predicate = ‘extant’.
1817   J. Mill Hist. Brit. India II. iv. ix. 298   It created some evils of the greatest magnitude which previously had no existence.
1856   B. Brodie Psychol. Inq. I. ii. 56   These facts sufficiently proved the existence of some actual disease.
1871   H. Alabaster Wheel of Law p. xxxvii,   Buddhists..see more reason to lament existence than to be grateful for it.
 
b. Continued being; continuance in being.

1874   J. R. Green Short Hist. Eng. People viii. 492   The colony was now firmly established and the struggle for mere existence was over.

c. Continuance of being as a living creature; life. (Sometimes in disparaging sense: ‘a mere existence not worthy the name of life’.)

1860   Baroness Bunsen in A. J. C. Hare Life & Lett. Baroness Bunsen (1879) II. v. 276   His existence of bodily ease and freshness.
1870   Dickens Edwin Drood vii. 40   We have had a wretched existence.

3. A mode or kind of existing.

1867   M. Arnold Empedocles on Etna i. ii,   Other existences there are, that clash with ours.
1878   R. Browning La Saisiaz 28   New existence led by men and women new.

4. concrete noun.
a. All that exists; the aggregate of being.


1868   ‘G. Eliot’ Spanish Gypsy i. 51   All beauteous existence rests, yet wakes.

b. Something that exists; a being, an entity.

1846   J. S. Mill Syst. Logic i. iii. §1   An enumeration of Existences, as the basis of Logic, did not escape the attention of the schoolmen.
1891   C. R. Francis in Indian Mag. Sept. 459   There is no limit to the ever-increasing number of deified existences.

As an noun of concept, it is a mistake of language to say that “existence” is in anyway tangible. It exists as an attribute only.

You may find it helpful to think of “colour/color” that, although a noun, cannot exist independently as it is abstract, a concept.

In its use as a concrete noun (see 4 above) it is comparatively rare and indicates “all things apparent” or “a being.”

I hope this helps. I often find that people get into all manner of difficulties and compose strange questions when they do no phrase their questions properly.

One of the best examples of this is the parable of the computer in “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” in which the people devise a big computer to answer “What is the answer to Life, The Universe and Everything?” and the answer comes back “42”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aboZctrHfK8

The moral behind this is “Be precise. Make sure the question is well formed.” I don't think yours was.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

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Re: what is the definiton of existence
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 07:45:48 PM »
trying to think of a more precise question, not so easy. a lot of definitions above relate to people/things existing.

somehow i am more asking about subract away people, and things completely ie a theoretical perfect vacuum, ignoring all fundamental forces/fields what is existence itself, ie did existence always exist. any particular thing may not exist like the comittee for X is no longer in existence but existence still exists, i think it is more fundamental and constant than say time or nothingness.
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Re: what is the definiton of existence
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2014, 06:52:55 PM »
Hmm, I've always defined that word as such:

Exist: having location, substance, force and/or a state of conception.

I know mine seems stupid, but here are some examples of things that exist:

Cars, sun, gravity, radiation, ideas**.


**Ideas exist because I used my brain, and its chemical processes to create this. It is however not a force, or a physical substance, but rather a state of conception only in my mind, with the same location.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.