Author Topic: WHY, Why, and more Why?  (Read 1984 times)

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Offline junebug72

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WHY, Why, and more Why?
« on: March 29, 2014, 06:24:38 AM »
I think of a child.  Why is this red?  Why is the sky blue?  Why am I here?  Where did I come from?  What is my purpose?  And so on...

From the time we learn to talk we start asking those very simple but very difficult questions.  Why am I here posting on this forum? 

I think the question mark is very under rated.

I have given atheism very serious thought the past couple of weeks.  Even right now I am angry with my partner.  I just can not .  It feels unnatural.  It actually blows my mind.

I am not a genius but I am not stupid either. 

Why can't I conceive atheism?

Sincerely,

JB

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2014, 06:37:53 AM »
The answer is that limitations are inherent to mankind and every single being in existence. Sometimes we just can't understand something, no matter how hard we try.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2014, 07:40:04 AM »
I think of a child.  Why is this red?  Why is the sky blue?  Why am I here?  Where did I come from?  What is my purpose?  And so on...

From the time we learn to talk we start asking those very simple but very difficult questions.  Why am I here posting on this forum? 

I think the question mark is very under rated.

I have given atheism very serious thought the past couple of weeks.  Even right now I am angry with my partner.  I just can not .  It feels unnatural.  It actually blows my mind.

I am not a genius but I am not stupid either. 

Why can't I conceive atheism?

Sincerely,

JB

Some might argue because of a psychological crutch to have a god in your life.  Others might argue it is because God is in your life. 

I wish I had that final black and white answer but I don't. 

What makes atheism scary and yet attractive to you?

As always,

OldChurchGuy
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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 09:56:14 AM »
I think of a child.  Why is this red?  Why is the sky blue?  Why am I here?  Where did I come from?  What is my purpose?  And so on...

From the time we learn to talk we start asking those very simple but very difficult questions.  Why am I here posting on this forum? 

I think the question mark is very under rated.

I have given atheism very serious thought the past couple of weeks.  Even right now I am angry with my partner.  I just can not .  It feels unnatural.  It actually blows my mind.

I am not a genius but I am not stupid either. 

Why can't I conceive atheism?

Sincerely,

JB

JB I have followed some of your posts here on this forum, including the one on the debate board.  I have to say that the faith I've seen you demonstrate is inspiring to me.  I just wanted to let you know that.  If I can help you in any way it would be a privelege.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2014, 10:12:37 AM »
I have given atheism very serious thought the past couple of weeks.  Even right now I am angry with my partner.  I just can not .  It feels unnatural.  It actually blows my mind.

Why are you considering atheism? It's not mandatory.
I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2014, 11:21:02 AM »
JB, I agree with AddH. If your head is in a crisis mode over the issue, don't go that way.

If you are in no position to scare the crap out of yourself, don't do it. If there is no god, the things you're doing while you assume there is one are fairly harmless, as long as you're not using it as an excuse to oppress others, which I'm sure you're not.

You are willing to have conversations here. That is much more than the average person with beliefs is willing to do. Be happy you're not being a jerk about it and enjoy what you've got right now. There is no rush, there are no deadlines, and being right about this isn't necessary.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline voodoo child

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2014, 11:53:13 AM »
I have given atheism very serious thought the past couple of weeks.  Even right now I am angry with my partner.  I just can not .  It feels unnatural.  It actually blows my mind.



Personally, I don't like the idea of being a marionette, especially to those who feel you should be.
Your dreams, thoughts, ideas are all yours to share or keep to yourself.  Instead of proclaiming atheism, you could just say. I no longer believe in fairy tales and I am going to take charge of my own destiny.

The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2014, 12:46:39 PM »
its fascinating, isn't it? I've never believed in god, and absolutely cannot conceive of such a belief. As long as we do our best to be kind to each other, and not force each other, its fine.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Disciple of Sagan

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2014, 01:55:33 PM »
As a 44 year old atheist, I can honestly admit that even if the clouds above suddenly parted and a beam of light shone down up on myself, accompanied by a booming voice proclaiming "I am God", my first and immediate instinct would be to doubt/dismiss what I was experiencing as being anything other than actual confirmation of the existence of (a) god. It might even take some time before I would be able make the mental adjustment to this radical change to what I had perceived as being reality.

So, like so many others here have already stated, don't beat yourself up over what you are going through. It might take a while, but eventually you'll work out what is best for you.

The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

The only thing bigger than the universe is humanity's collective sense of self-importance.

Offline junebug72

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2014, 02:37:37 PM »
Thanks everybody for your kind words.  I don't really know why I've been thinking about it.  I'm really blue right now.  My partner sucks, my life has sucked.  I am tired of hurting inside. 

I also have a very deep appreciation of the encouragement and support I received here while going through chemo.  A lot more than I can say for my believer friends.  They just prayed, maybe. 

I am not trying to make an emotional decision so I will not be changing today.  Thanks PP very good advice.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2014, 06:50:56 AM »
The answer is that limitations are inherent to mankind and every single being in existence. Sometimes we just can't understand something, no matter how hard we try.

I can understand why a person would chose atheism over religion.  I have tried very hard to keep religion out of my head.  I get that part.  No gods is certainly better than any religion has to offer.  To me god/gods w/o religion is an option that should be considered seriously.  I do not consider the physical absence to be evidence of non existence but rather evidence of love and compassion.

This to me goes back to positive thinking vs. negative thinking.  How many negative thoughts have been good for society, none to my knowledge.  I don't believe this proves there is god/gods but I do believe it proves how important belief can be when used in a positive way.  In this society where 90%, I think, of the prison pop believes in God my heart breaks to try and comprehend society w/o belief.  I think a more positive belief is what's necessary to improve our conditions.  IOW, religion has to go.

 ;) Good point by the way.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2014, 06:54:14 AM »
JB, I agree with AddH. If your head is in a crisis mode over the issue, don't go that way.

If you are in no position to scare the crap out of yourself, don't do it. If there is no god, the things you're doing while you assume there is one are fairly harmless, as long as you're not using it as an excuse to oppress others, which I'm sure you're not.

You are willing to have conversations here. That is much more than the average person with beliefs is willing to do. Be happy you're not being a jerk about it and enjoy what you've got right now. There is no rush, there are no deadlines, and being right about this isn't necessary.

Yes I have been feeling a little sorry for myself lately.  You're right I don't see how giving up now would help me at all.

Your words are extremely impeccable. :laugh:
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2014, 06:56:12 AM »
I can understand why a person would chose atheism over religion.

Belief is not a choice. You don't choose to believe in something. Either you believe or you don't.

I have tried very hard to keep religion out of my head.  I get that part.  No gods is certainly better than any religion has to offer

Atheism has nothing to offer. It's a viewpoint that doesn't dictate your world view. Regardless, it's not about what's better; it's about what's true.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline junebug72

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2014, 07:15:37 AM »
I have given atheism very serious thought the past couple of weeks.  Even right now I am angry with my partner.  I just can not .  It feels unnatural.  It actually blows my mind.



Personally, I don't like the idea of being a marionette, especially to those who feel you should be.
Your dreams, thoughts, ideas are all yours to share or keep to yourself.  Instead of proclaiming atheism, you could just say. I no longer believe in fairy tales and I am going to take charge of my own destiny.

I do not believe that god/gods control destinies.  I know you are not very familiar with my beliefs so it's okay.  Thanks for the encouragement.  Please don't take it personal if I remain a believer. :P

I can understand why a person would chose atheism over religion.

Belief is not a choice. You don't choose to believe in something. Either you believe or you don't.

I have tried very hard to keep religion out of my head.  I get that part.  No gods is certainly better than any religion has to offer

Atheism has nothing to offer. It's a viewpoint that doesn't dictate your world view. Regardless, it's not about what's better; it's about what's true.

I can understand that.

If your "truth" is not better for society I would not believe it to be "truth".  Honesty is the best policy,IMHO.  To me the only HONEST answer is I don't know the truth.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2014, 07:17:43 AM »
If your "truth" is not better for society I would not believe it to be "truth".

Not all truths are beneficial or even pleasant to hear. Take an obese person, for example. They have a higher risk of a long list of diseases. Is that pleasant to hear? No. Is it beneficial? Might be, if it makes them change. Is it the truth? Definitely.

Honesty is the best policy,IMHO.  To me the only HONEST answer is I don't know the truth.

I do know the truth. Gods, by my definition of the word, are not only non-existent, but impossible.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline junebug72

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2014, 07:28:57 AM »

JB I have followed some of your posts here on this forum, including the one on the debate board.  I have to say that the faith I've seen you demonstrate is inspiring to me.  I just wanted to let you know that.  If I can help you in any way it would be a privelege.

I am so very honored.  I am not all that comfortable using the word 'faith'.  I know you meant no harm from it, no offense taken.  I didn't come to believe in God because I have faith it's more to do with logic and reason.  Faith is a 'cop out' word.

You're words did encourage me J'ing many many thanks.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2014, 07:34:22 AM »
I have given atheism very serious thought the past couple of weeks.  Even right now I am angry with my partner.  I just can not .  It feels unnatural.  It actually blows my mind.

Why are you considering atheism? It's not mandatory.

Thanks for this question.  It has helped me realize exactly what has inspired this attempted change of perception.  I think it is due to the fact that I am trying to be as empathetic as I can.  The best way to do that is try it on.  I try and I just can't do it.  I don't know what that implies but I was very curious as to what opinions here would be.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2014, 07:44:08 AM »
If your "truth" is not better for society I would not believe it to be "truth".

Not all truths are beneficial or even pleasant to hear. Take an obese person, for example. They have a higher risk of a long list of diseases. Is that pleasant to hear? No. Is it beneficial? Might be, if it makes them change. Is it the truth? Definitely.

Honesty is the best policy,IMHO.  To me the only HONEST answer is I don't know the truth.

I do know the truth. Gods, by my definition of the word, are not only non-existent, but impossible.

Yes this truth may be hard to hear but it is necessary to improve an individuals behavior for the better.  How would atheism change a murderer that believes in gods for the better?

How does atheism change a politician from a greedy nimcapoop to a man that cares about the society he has sworn to help?

How will atheism stop a pedophile or rapist?

How can atheism help the hurt I feel inside?

We are not talking about your definition we are talking about mine.  Do you understand my definition OAA?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2014, 07:57:50 AM »
Yes this truth may be hard to hear but it is necessary to improve an individuals behavior for the better.  How would atheism change a murderer that believes in gods for the better?

How does atheism change a politician from a greedy nimcapoop to a man that cares about the society he has sworn to help?

How will atheism stop a pedophile or rapist?

How can atheism help the hurt I feel inside?

Atheism makes no claims on these things. Regardless, truth is truth. It doesn't matter if it's helpful or makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. It exists. Period.
How would religion help those people? If one believes in gods and hurts people, that's that. If someone is greedy, religion won't change their minds. If a pedophile and/or rapist can't or won't change their behavior, religion won't do squat. You already believe in at least one god, so religion is clearly not helping you.

We are not talking about your definition we are talking about mine.  Do you understand my definition OAA?

I don't know what your definition of "god" is, but I suspect it is also impossible, as are all definitions I've encountered.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline junebug72

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2014, 08:33:11 AM »
Yes this truth may be hard to hear but it is necessary to improve an individuals behavior for the better.  How would atheism change a murderer that believes in gods for the better?

How does atheism change a politician from a greedy nimcapoop to a man that cares about the society he has sworn to help?

How will atheism stop a pedophile or rapist?

How can atheism help the hurt I feel inside?

Atheism makes no claims on these things. Regardless, truth is truth. It doesn't matter if it's helpful or makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. It exists. Period.
How would religion help those people? If one believes in gods and hurts people, that's that. If someone is greedy, religion won't change their minds. If a pedophile and/or rapist can't or won't change their behavior, religion won't do squat. You already believe in at least one god, so religion is clearly not helping you.

We are not talking about your definition we are talking about mine.  Do you understand my definition OAA?

I don't know what your definition of "god" is, but I suspect it is also impossible, as are all definitions I've encountered.

I would suggest you understand my definition before assuming it impossible.  The truth you claim is not absolute truth.  It is only truth to you and some like you it is not truth to all.

Religion has never helped me but only hurt me.  My belief has helped me many many many many times.  I know you are familiar with my recent health adventure.  There are links I have supplied that explains the difference in spiritual vs. religious.  It's really not that hard to understand.

Your  reply is  based on too many assumptions. It is moot.

I have never claimed religion to help society but quite the opposite.  I believe in a spiritual based belief.  Using your own conscious, moral compass, to guide you.

Religion sets off my moral compass alarm!  It screams run like hell!  It's just as loud as the one that turns me away from violent or greedy solutions.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 08:45:23 AM by junebug72 »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2014, 08:46:33 AM »
Yes this truth may be hard to hear but it is necessary to improve an individuals behavior for the better.  How would atheism change a murderer that believes in gods for the better?

How does atheism change a politician from a greedy nimcapoop to a man that cares about the society he has sworn to help?

How will atheism stop a pedophile or rapist?

How can atheism help the hurt I feel inside?

Atheism makes no claims on these things. Regardless, truth is truth. It doesn't matter if it's helpful or makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. It exists. Period.
How would religion help those people? If one believes in gods and hurts people, that's that. If someone is greedy, religion won't change their minds. If a pedophile and/or rapist can't or won't change their behavior, religion won't do squat. You already believe in at least one god, so religion is clearly not helping you.

We are not talking about your definition we are talking about mine.  Do you understand my definition OAA?

I don't know what your definition of "god" is, but I suspect it is also impossible, as are all definitions I've encountered.

I would suggest you understand my definition before assuming it impossible.  The truth you claim is not absolute truth.  It is only truth to you and some like you it is not truth to all.

Religion has never helped me but only hurt me.  My belief has helped me many many many many times.  I know you are familiar with my recent health adventure.  There are links I have supplied that explains the difference in spiritual vs. religious.  It's really not that hard to understand.

Your  reply is  based on too many assumptions. It is moot.

I have never claimed religion to help society but quite the opposite.  I believe in a spiritual based belief.  Using your own conscious, moral compass, to guide you.

Religion sets off my moral compass alarm!  It screams run like hell!  It's just as loud as the one that turns me away from violent or greedy solutions.

One more thing...

It is the truth that we do not know the truth that I think will most benefit society.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Online Mr. Blackwell

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2014, 09:02:17 AM »
In this society where 90%, I think, of the prison pop believes in God my heart breaks to try and comprehend society w/o belief.

Most people self identify as Christian because that's how their friends and family identify themselves. There are many many more theists in America than atheists. Though the gap is getting narrower as more and more young people feel comfortable admitting that they don't really identify with religion.

It is not true that crime would increase with a more secular society. The reason our prison population has so many "believers" in jail is because we are a nation full of theists. If you looked at Denmark's prison population you would probably find 90% of the prisoners were atheist and argue that they need god in their lives however...their crime rates are much much lower than the United States.

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"People want to get whatever they want to get. Do I care? No, I don't care. People need certain things" - Senator Leland Yee (D) California

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2014, 09:49:46 AM »
I would suggest you understand my definition before assuming it impossible.

I never said I assumed it was impossible; merely that I suspected it was.

The truth you claim is not absolute truth.  It is only truth to you and some like you it is not truth to all.

The existence or non-existence of something is not relative (sort of). It hinges on your definition of "existence", but once that definition has been accepted, the fact is absolute.

Religion has never helped me but only hurt me.  My belief has helped me many many many many times.  I know you are familiar with my recent health adventure.  There are links I have supplied that explains the difference in spiritual vs. religious.  It's really not that hard to understand.

Like you cannot understand atheism, I cannot understand the difference.

Your  reply is  based on too many assumptions. It is moot.

Many things are based on assumptions. It doesn't make them moot.

I have never claimed religion to help society but quite the opposite.  I believe in a spiritual based belief.  Using your own conscious, moral compass, to guide you.

Religion sets off my moral compass alarm!  It screams run like hell!  It's just as loud as the one that turns me away from violent or greedy solutions.

Psychopaths lack a moral compass. Sociopaths use their own. Using one's own moral compass is not a good idea sometimes.

It is the truth that we do not know the truth that I think will most benefit society.

How so?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2014, 12:41:46 PM »

JB I have followed some of your posts here on this forum, including the one on the debate board.  I have to say that the faith I've seen you demonstrate is inspiring to me.  I just wanted to let you know that.  If I can help you in any way it would be a privelege.

I am so very honored.  I am not all that comfortable using the word 'faith'.  I know you meant no harm from it, no offense taken.  I didn't come to believe in God because I have faith it's more to do with logic and reason.  Faith is a 'cop out' word.

You're words did encourage me J'ing many many thanks.

Then allow me to replace "faith" with integrity toward God.  And even though I've read through some of your posts I did not know you are going through such hard times.  But knowing it now, or at least a small bit of it, you are even more inspirational to me. 

From what I know and can see you remind me of Job.  Job himself suffered many things and asked many questions of "why" and like you was confronted with comforters that would have had him forsake his integrity toward God, with statements such as, "you already believe in at least one god, so religion is clearly not helping you."

Reading about Job is inspirational but it is quite different than knowing someone like yourself, even if only over the internet, that seems to be going through similar things and yet you maintain your integrity.

I would love to know more about you and what you are going through if you don't mind sharing.  You may have already said somewhere else but may I ask what type of cancer you have?  What is the condition of the cancer?  I would love to hear your "story", as much as you are willing to share.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2014, 02:50:21 PM »
Junebug:

Be aware that jstwebbrowsing is a Jehovah's Witness. These guys are organised religion writ large.

Until late 2012, the Governing Body described itself as the representative and "spokesman" for God's "faithful and discreet slave class."

Witnesses believe that a "little flock" go to heaven, but that the hope for life after death for the majority of "other sheep" involves being resurrected by God to a cleansed earth after Armageddon. A central teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses is that the current world era, or "system of things", entered the "last days" in 1914 and faces imminent destruction through intervention by God and Jesus Christ, leading to deliverance for those who worship God acceptably.

This latter piece of garbage was an altered version written by a truly whacko theologian who altered the wording after the year 1914 did not produce the End of the World.

They also are quite happy when parents refuse blood transfusions and the child dies. It is God's will and, of course the kid is in Heaven with Jesus (money back if you can prove it is not so.). If you are unconscious and require a transfusion, they will have had you sign over power of attorney to them so they can refuse on your behalf.

JW's specialise in recruiting those who are at a low ebb in their lives.  JW's proselytize to Olympic standards. 

« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 02:52:51 PM by Graybeard »
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2014, 03:03:13 PM »
They also are quite happy when parents refuse blood transfusions and the child dies.

My 1st girlfriend was raised a JW, and while she did eventually break away from it as an adult (she called it a cult), the one aspect she still  adhered to was to be against blood transfusions. She admitted she had no logical reason to continue to do so, only that it was too deeply ingrained.

It broke my heart.
The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

The only thing bigger than the universe is humanity's collective sense of self-importance.

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2014, 04:49:39 PM »
Junebug:

Be aware that jstwebbrowsing is a Jehovah's Witness. These guys are organised religion writ large.

Until late 2012, the Governing Body described itself as the representative and "spokesman" for God's "faithful and discreet slave class."

Witnesses believe that a "little flock" go to heaven, but that the hope for life after death for the majority of "other sheep" involves being resurrected by God to a cleansed earth after Armageddon. A central teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses is that the current world era, or "system of things", entered the "last days" in 1914 and faces imminent destruction through intervention by God and Jesus Christ, leading to deliverance for those who worship God acceptably.

This latter piece of garbage was an altered version written by a truly whacko theologian who altered the wording after the year 1914 did not produce the End of the World.

They also are quite happy when parents refuse blood transfusions and the child dies. It is God's will and, of course the kid is in Heaven with Jesus (money back if you can prove it is not so.). If you are unconscious and require a transfusion, they will have had you sign over power of attorney to them so they can refuse on your behalf.

JW's specialise in recruiting those who are at a low ebb in their lives.  JW's proselytize to Olympic standards.

Satan, is that you?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Graybeard

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2014, 04:51:46 PM »
No. It is reality.
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

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Re: WHY, Why, and more Why?
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2014, 05:08:14 PM »

Satan, is that you?

...it's me, Margaret. Sorry, couldn't resist.

And I can vouch for Graybeard that he is not Satan. I checked his forehead once, and found 667.

He's just the neighbor of the Beast.  :D
The cosmos is also within us. We are made of star stuff.

The only thing bigger than the universe is humanity's collective sense of self-importance.