Author Topic: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?  (Read 3275 times)

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #116 on: April 03, 2014, 08:45:05 AM »
I agree with you, this father you described looks like someone who want to be repaid. Jesus is not this kind of father. He does not keep reminding you that he suffered for you, I'm the one reminding it to you. He didn't write the Bible, his disciple did. He does not expect you to repay him
Well, yes, you're the one reminding me about it.  And a bunch of other Christians as well.  In fact, you and the other Christians are doing more than just reminding me.  You're the ones who told me about this debt in the first place.  The person that I owe the debt to has never told me about it.  And frankly, the fact that you and the other Christians can't seem to keep the story straight of what he did for me, why he did it for me, how he wants me to respond to it, and even the general descriptions of god himself are all a bit...disparate.

And you know what?  As far as I can tell, it's god and Jesus who are telling you and your buddies to go around constantly reminding others anyway.  So my criticism still stands - god and/or Jesus are still acting like entities that want to be repaid.

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I never had that kind of trouble. But I can easily imagine it. I would not say to the guy "stop thanking me" but "find another way to thank me, or better yet, go help others now, like I helped you."
At least you'd say something, and not tell others to say something to me.

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Thank you, I did that already with many priests and they all agreed with me. (maybe you should ask the one close to your place) It's one of the thing we have to deal with as Catholics. We are already forgiven. It does not mean we don't have to be thankful, that we must stop trying to repay the debt.
Keep pressing on these priests, and perhaps, again, have a conversation with the archbishop of your diocese.  Some of the things you believe (i.e. the non-existence of a place/state called 'hell') run counter to what the Catholic church both believes is true and teaches.

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Ask some of these people about it:
http://www.notorture.org/stories.php

See if you can still compare Jesus' torture over the span of a day (and subsequent resurrection after death) to repeated beatings over a 2 month period.  Or how about comparing it to being chained up and being repeatedly raped on a daily basis for a 9 month period?  That kinda sucks, right?
Yes! That's horrible.  :(

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I get the story says that Jesus suffered quite a lot (before being killed and resurrected 3 days later), and sure, kudos for accepting that fate and all.
That's all I asked :)
You didn't really need to ask, as I never really denied that the story showcases Jesus suffers quite a bit.  You just made it sound like his sacrifice was 'all that and a bag of chips'.  Comparatively, it really wasn't, certainly not in exchange for unquestioned worship and devotion from the whole of humanity.

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I totally agree with you. The cross is not he pinnacle of potential suffering a human can go through (even at that time). I'm just saying that I am thankful for his sacrifice and I hope that one day you will be too. (even if we don't have to)
And I hope that one day you will be thankful to Prometheus for the gift of fire.

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The suffering I imagined wasn't as high than the one pictured.
One of the mystery is that Jesus was fully human AND fully God. Jesus is God, but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God the Son.
There are several potential explanations for why such a description is so mysterious and so beyond understanding.

One of those explanations is that the statement is incoherent.  Do you have a way to differentiate between claims that are nonsensical because they are incoherent or nonsensical because it is divine information?

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So yes he was infinitely strong but he was also at the same time infinitely weak.
That makes no sense.  Read that sentence to yourself a few dozen times and see if the palm of your hand doesn't instinctively make a bee-line towards your face.

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Anyway, why the infinitely strong you picture would ever allow himself in this situation?
That's a damn good question.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #117 on: April 03, 2014, 01:55:11 PM »
You do know that's all fictional, don't you?

I could tell you "You know that's all real, don't you?" but how does that help the discussion?

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Why was he scourged at all? It's said in the Matt 27 that the Romans could find no sin in the man, so why did they extra-punish him?

He was punished because off all the bad things I did and all the bad things you do. Also, it was prophesied.

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If you believe the prophecy, it says that Jesus was ugly, and you will find no beauty in him. (Change your avatar, please) It says he was a man of sorrows, that is permanently depressed.

I'm sorry that my avatar is making you uncomfortable. I don't believe someone without sin to be "ugly".

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So, he could turn the pain off, because he had yogic mind control. Where in the Passion narrative does it say he suffered any pain at all? You could just as easily spin it that way.

Yes he could have. So why did he not? Why would he put himself in such a situation?

Quote from: Add Homonym
(Change your avatar, please) [...]
Quote from: Lukvance
I will never know how great was his suffering.
Exactly, so don't mention it.

How is telling what to say and what not to say or do help the discussion? Usually these kind of argument finish with fists...nowhere productive.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #118 on: April 03, 2014, 03:45:41 PM »
I think we need to keep on track about which hypotheticals we are using in each scenario. Here, I have simply been discussing my parents paying a monetary debt for me, not as below, where you drew up the idea of my dad throwing himself into traffic. So, in the case of paying them back, yes I am doing exactly the same, unless, as I said before, they decide to charge me interest.
I agree that's why I reformulated my question (included the father) and it didn't get answered :( It's like just 2 (no) or 3 (yes) letters makes you afraid or something....

Do you have to do exactly the the same thing your father did to repay your debt? In the case of suffering to save your life, do you have also to wait for a car to almost run unto him to repay him?

Quote from: Ataraxia
why do you need to follow this teaching? I certainly don't need to follow this as I instintively worked it out for myself (minus the bit about sin). How come you need to be told?
That's where the question "what came first the egg or the chicken?" is interesting. When you say you worked it out for yourself, I'm pretty sure that you weren't raised without the concept of Good and Bad from what came your own deduction.

Quote from: Ataraxia
Quote from: Lukvance
Quote from: Ataraxia
They can't both be correct.
Yes, they can.

If only life was this simple and things could be rebutted so readily without so much as a by your leave. Please, expand on how these mutually exclusive positions can co-exist together.
Did that already...I thought you were joking by "rebutting without so much as a by your leave".
Like your father suffered on the pavement before dying. Jesus suffered under the cross before dying.
Your father already saved you from death (by pushing you out of the way). Jesus already saved you from your sins (by taking the cross for you).
You can ignore the fact that your father saved your life (for example by saying "I didn't need him! I was fine! plenty of time!") and still have your life "saved". You can ignore the fact that Jesus took the cross and still have your sins forgiven.
But, if you want to repay your debt (and I hope you do) to your father's sacrifice (witch is here whether you want it or not) you will have to accept his sacrifice. If you want to repay your debt to Jesus's sacrifice, you'll have to accept his sacrifice.
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Offline caveat_imperator

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #119 on: April 03, 2014, 05:19:06 PM »
You do know that's all fictional, don't you?

I could tell you "You know that's all real, don't you?" but how does that help the discussion?
It wouldn't since you'd be wrong.
On the other hand, Add Homonym is right, so his words do help the discussion.
You can't prove a negative of an existence postulate.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #120 on: April 03, 2014, 11:14:24 PM »
I could tell you "You know that's all real, don't you?" but how does that help the discussion?

You could say that, but it's a movie by Mel Gibson, showing events that aren't documented in the NT.

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He was punished because off all the bad things I did and all the bad things you do. Also, it was prophesied.

How do you know that he didn't just get caught?

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I'm sorry that my avatar is making you uncomfortable. I don't believe someone without sin to be "ugly".

No, it just makes you look like a liar.

You can't use a prophecy to write the story of Jesus, and then ignore the fact that Isaiah thought he was ugly.
[14] As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
[2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
[3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.


Or you can accept that the hidden plural on the end of death, means that Isaiah 52-53 was never about Jesus, but the Jewish people.
[9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death(s); because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

You can keep your integrity, if you admit that Isaiah is not talking about Jesus. Otherwise I might as well put a clown nose on your Avatar.

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Yes he could have. So why did he not? Why would he put himself in such a situation?

The NT doesn't focus on the pain.  The point is, that he died and rose. The Jews did not make their sacrifices suffer. Luke even shaved a bit of pain off, when he cut and pasted from Matt. John just has him say "It's accomplished". How can a God suffer, without mentioning it? From whence do you derive his pain, except from a prophecy, which even you admit is wrong, by putting a beautiful white man up, and pretending it's Jesus? If he really was a mortal man, who knew no God, then yes, he suffered. But the Bible says he was in constant connection with God, and part of God, and knew that heaven awaited.

Quote from: Add Homonym
(Change your avatar, please) [...]
Quote from: Lukvance
I will never know how great was his suffering.
Exactly, so don't mention it.

How is telling what to say and what not to say or do help the discussion? Usually these kind of argument finish with fists...nowhere productive.

You said you could never know what pain he suffered, so don't mention it.
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #121 on: April 03, 2014, 11:43:45 PM »
I can't find any gospel reference that says Jesus was "without sin". I feel that if it was doctrinal, someone would have mentioned it.

I can see John 8, where Jesus fails to stone the woman.

I'm using this a reference
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Jesus-Did-Not-Have-a-Sin-Nature/

EDIT: changed NT to gospel. I discount the raving lunatic, Paul
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 12:08:14 AM by Add Homonym »
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Offline Ataraxia

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #122 on: April 04, 2014, 01:46:33 AM »
I think we need to keep on track about which hypotheticals we are using in each scenario. Here, I have simply been discussing my parents paying a monetary debt for me, not as below, where you drew up the idea of my dad throwing himself into traffic. So, in the case of paying them back, yes I am doing exactly the same, unless, as I said before, they decide to charge me interest.
I agree that's why I reformulated my question (included the father) and it didn't get answered :( It's like just 2 (no) or 3 (yes) letters makes you afraid or something....

We'll go with something - that being you talking utter tripe. Plus, don't accuse me of shying away from answering you when you seem quite at liberty to pull out your quoting pick axe and chisel away big chunks of my previous response to you.

It's not cricket to just go chopping and changing which scenario you want to use willy-nilly.

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Do you have to do exactly the the same thing your father did to repay your debt? In the case of suffering to save your life, do you have also to wait for a car to almost run unto him to repay him?

No, I don't, simply because I wouldn't see such a "debt" as being repayable. My only way to recipricate would be to save his life in some way. Whether you think that requires me suffering is up to you. However, again for the umpteenth time, this is not comparable.

Quote from: Ataraxia
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why do you need to follow this teaching? I certainly don't need to follow this as I instintively worked it out for myself (minus the bit about sin). How come you need to be told?
That's where the question "what came first the egg or the chicken?" is interesting.

The egg.

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When you say you worked it out for yourself, I'm pretty sure that you weren't raised without the concept of Good and Bad from what came your own deduction.

Good and bad are simplistic labels we provide for a concept we instinctively have. We are not the only species on the planet that recognises that it is beneficial to us to be "good" to one another and not cause harm or kill one another. For example, you won't see a bunch of piranhas attacking each other - they aren't taught that in their school....

Quote from: Ataraxia
Quote from: Lukvance
Quote from: Ataraxia
Quote
They can't both be correct.
Yes, they can.

If only life was this simple and things could be rebutted so readily without so much as a by your leave. Please, expand on how these mutually exclusive positions can co-exist together.
Did that already...I thought you were joking by "rebutting without so much as a by your leave".
Like your father suffered on the pavement before dying. Jesus suffered under the cross before dying.
Your father already saved you from death (by pushing you out of the way). Jesus already saved you from your sins (by taking the cross for you).
You can ignore the fact that your father saved your life (for example by saying "I didn't need him! I was fine! plenty of time!") and still have your life "saved". You can ignore the fact that Jesus took the cross and still have your sins forgiven.
But, if you want to repay your debt (and I hope you do) to your father's sacrifice (witch is here whether you want it or not) you will have to accept his sacrifice. If you want to repay your debt to Jesus's sacrifice, you'll have to accept his sacrifice.

I have already responded to this. You did read it, right?  Oh, and this doesn't explain away the mutually exclusive positions.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 03:11:34 AM by Ataraxia »
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #123 on: April 04, 2014, 07:25:54 AM »

Why was he scourged at all? It's said in the Matt 27 that the Romans could find no sin in the man, so why did they extra-punish him?

He was punished because off all the bad things I did and all the bad things you do. Also, it was prophesied.

So the Romans knew the future. They thought to themselves: I know that Hatter23 will have sinful thoughts while looking at Christina Hendricks sashaying trough the offices of SCDP, so I whip this Jewish heretic an extra time. Hrrm, makes sense.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #124 on: April 04, 2014, 07:28:40 AM »
You do know that's all fictional, don't you?

I could tell you "You know that's all real, don't you?" but how does that help the discussion?
It wouldn't since you'd be wrong.
On the other hand, Add Homonym is right, so his words do help the discussion.

While you and I know what is real and what is fictional, Lukevance has a point, just stating "But Santa isn't real" doesn't further the discussion.  It is factual, but it is not evidence of its own factuality.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #125 on: April 04, 2014, 08:46:18 AM »
I was talking about the youtube he put up, where Jesus was beaten with a cane. The event referred to in the NT, is "emastigOsen", which is like a "cat of 9 tails"

A flogging was carried out using a leather whip with bits of metal, rock, or bone woven into the ends. It was a deadly instrument, designed to tear the flesh into a bloody pulp. Though it probably was not as terrible as crucifixion, flogging often exposed vital organs and arteries and could bring about the death of one who experienced it.

The movie in question puts a lot of detail into Jesus' torture, which couldn't possibly known, unless Mel Gibson is a psychic.




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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #126 on: April 04, 2014, 02:11:27 PM »
Yes he could have. So why did he not? Why would he put himself in such a situation?
The NT doesn't focus on the pain.  The point is, that he died and rose. The Jews did not make their sacrifices suffer. Luke even shaved a bit of pain off, when he cut and pasted from Matt. John just has him say "It's accomplished". How can a God suffer, without mentioning it? From whence do you derive his pain, except from a prophecy, which even you admit is wrong, by putting a beautiful white man up, and pretending it's Jesus? If he really was a mortal man, who knew no God, then yes, he suffered. But the Bible says he was in constant connection with God, and part of God, and knew that heaven awaited.
It don't understand how does this answer the question "Why would he put himself in such a situation?". Why did he not save himself from this torture?
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #127 on: April 04, 2014, 02:14:46 PM »
I can't find any gospel reference that says Jesus was "without sin". I feel that if it was doctrinal, someone would have mentioned it.

I can see John 8, where Jesus fails to stone the woman.

I'm using this a reference
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Jesus-Did-Not-Have-a-Sin-Nature/

EDIT: changed NT to gospel. I discount the raving lunatic, Paul
It comes from the fact that Jesus is God and God is sinless, so Jesus is sinless. If you want to talk about how Jesus is God, I guess we could but I feel this is not the topic here.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #128 on: April 04, 2014, 02:20:50 PM »
He was punished because off all the bad things I did and all the bad things you do. Also, it was prophesied.
So the Romans knew the future. They thought to themselves: I know that Hatter23 will have sinful thoughts while looking at Christina Hendricks sashaying trough the offices of SCDP, so I whip this Jewish heretic an extra time. Hrrm, makes sense.

You misunderstood. The prophecy was about him dying so you can be closer to God. The Romans punished him because he said he was God. I hope you understand the evil pleasure they got from slashing God. It made them felt stronger than God.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #129 on: April 04, 2014, 02:26:33 PM »
You misunderstood. The prophecy was about him dying so you can be closer to God. The Romans punished him because he said he was God. I hope you understand the evil pleasure they got from slashing God. It made them felt stronger than God.
It don't understand how does this answer the question "Why would he put himself in such a situation?". Why did he not save himself from this torture?

Surprise!   

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #130 on: April 04, 2014, 02:36:32 PM »
He was punished because off all the bad things I did and all the bad things you do. Also, it was prophesied.
So the Romans knew the future. They thought to themselves: I know that Hatter23 will have sinful thoughts while looking at Christina Hendricks sashaying trough the offices of SCDP, so I whip this Jewish heretic an extra time. Hrrm, makes sense.

You misunderstood. The prophecy was about him dying so you can be closer to God. The Romans punished him because he said he was God. I hope you understand the evil pleasure they got from slashing God. It made them felt stronger than God.
First; Read your sentence I quoted and show me how it bear any resemblance to what you now say that it meant.

Secondly; If the Romans thought he was God, the almighty master and creator of the universe...you think it would be standard psychology to put him in pain and make him possibly pissed off? Not, say, to toady up. If Romans thought that way, why weren't they taking a dump on the head of the most powerful politician in Rome while they were at it?



« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 02:38:11 PM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #131 on: April 04, 2014, 02:46:05 PM »
He was punished because off all the bad things I did and all the bad things you do. Also, it was prophesied.
So the Romans knew the future. They thought to themselves: I know that Hatter23 will have sinful thoughts while looking at Christina Hendricks sashaying trough the offices of SCDP, so I whip this Jewish heretic an extra time. Hrrm, makes sense.

You misunderstood. The prophecy was about him dying so you can be closer to God. The Romans punished him because he said he was God. I hope you understand the evil pleasure they got from slashing God. It made them felt stronger than God.
First; Read your sentence I quoted and show me how it bear any resemblance to what you now say that it meant.
Secondly; If the Romans thought he was God, the almighty master and creator of the universe...you think it would be standard psychology to put him in pain and make him possibly pissed off? Not, say, to toady up. If Romans thought that way, why weren't they taking a dump on the head of the most powerful politician in Rome while they were at it?

You are right, when I wrote "he was punished because" the cause I shared with you was the fundamental one, the "real reason", not the excuse made by Jews and Romans at that time.
As opposed to the most powerful politician in Rome, Jesus did not fight back. Also, I don't think the romans who punished him thought he was God. Even if some where "just following orders".
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #132 on: April 04, 2014, 03:57:58 PM »
As a former JW, can someone point out in the bible where Jesus says that he is god? IIRC he refers to god as "father" and as "lord" but never as "me".

This is just for purposes of discussion. I don't really think that there was a bible-style miracle-making Jesus. (Or a god.)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #133 on: April 04, 2014, 06:34:13 PM »
I think the perception of Jesus being god is that he was born as the spirit of god by Biblegod impregnating Mary where as with Adam, he was made from the dirt of the earth rather than from the spirit of Biblegod; therefore Jesus would be separate from us in that he actually comes from "the seed of god" rather than being molded, or what not. But if that's the case, then, John the Baptist--also born the same way as Jesus--would also be Biblegod. My question is: if Biblegod is perfect then how is John the Baptist a mistake?

Also, from my understanding: Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist not the other way around.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #134 on: April 04, 2014, 09:18:43 PM »
Yes he could have. So why did he not? Why would he put himself in such a situation?
The NT doesn't focus on the pain.  The point is, that he died and rose. The Jews did not make their sacrifices suffer. Luke even shaved a bit of pain off, when he cut and pasted from Matt. John just has him say "It's accomplished". How can a God suffer, without mentioning it? From whence do you derive his pain, except from a prophecy, which even you admit is wrong, by putting a beautiful white man up, and pretending it's Jesus? If he really was a mortal man, who knew no God, then yes, he suffered. But the Bible says he was in constant connection with God, and part of God, and knew that heaven awaited.
It don't understand how does this answer the question "Why would he put himself in such a situation?". Why did he not save himself from this torture?

One method of explanation, is to accept that a real man, called Jesus was actually crucified. Once that occurs, the people who invented the religion had to make something of his martyrdom. Crucifixion was reserved for insurrection and escaped slaves, designed to humiliate, so the punishment is compatible with what Jesus supposedly did, and what Isaiah proscribes, so they may not have thought they could get away with redacting it to stoning, hanging, or beheading. Those punishments are more compatible with the charge of blasphemy, which is what he was supposedly accused of by the Jews, but they weren't dramatic enough.

There is something terribly suspicious about the speed with which Jesus was taken off the cross. The punishment was also called "Food for the crows"; it was designed to also humiliate the followers and relatives by denying burial, which was taboo in those days. You were supposed hang there until you were a skeleton, and the dogs had taken your legs. It was especially an insult to the Jews, who believed that a body hanging from a tree should be buried before nightfall, or that person was cursed. So, Jesus was taken off the cross really fast, because scripture demands it, not because the Romans would have let it happen. We can see from the hatred against Jesus, with "free Barrabas" and people spitting on him, that he would not have been given special favour by anyone, to be buried after a few hours on the cross.

The authors wanted to meld contradictory themes together. On one hand they wanted him crucified (the worst punishment), but on the other, they wanted him buried in a nice tomb, and not appear to suffer, or lose dignity. They wanted Jesus despised, but also loved. They wanted him to be a God, but also a man. They wanted him ugly, but beautiful. They wanted him powerful, yet passive and powerless. They wanted him to be a profound teacher, but ignored. They wanted him famous, but failed to get anyone to document him. The result is a story that most Christians swallow, even though it doesn't make any sense. (And I probably missed a few contradictions.) The more of these profound contradictions exist, the more you can buy into the story that God was involved, because only God can be that enigmatic.) Whatever the cost, they never wanted us to see a real man, so he vanished as quickly as he appeared - a virgin, from a virgin.

So, when you ask a question about "What point", you are really missing the point that the story is a totally contrived wrongness and scriptural mashing, from start to finish. I can just invent points, or doctrines, but they had 100 years to think about it.

One way we could absolve sin, is to make Jesus really ugly, and put all the world's sin in him, like the portrait of Dorian Gray, then put him on the cross, hated, and let him die with the dogs. Hey presto, all sin has now been cast off in one man. However, if I do that, I have to come up with some mumbo jumbo about why people listened to him. Maybe he had a temporary aura of God, which made him look good. I can just make stuff up, and if people believe it, then it sells. You have to realise that you are looking at the product that sold, not the one that failed. They became apocrypha.

ED: not to now.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 09:23:00 PM by Add Homonym »
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #135 on: April 04, 2014, 09:37:22 PM »
Also, they wanted Jesus to look like he had been caught, but that he manipulated Judas into reporting him. They wanted him to be a public speaker, and yet hard to find.

"The Jews crucified an innocent man", but He did it all deliberately and somehow it was the Romans that did it. There is no way for anyone to factually or logically make their way through this mess, apart from by more fan fiction. The only people who get to decide the logic of it, are the authors. Then, when they make something up, it becomes true.

It would be like me trying to fix the plot holes in Lord of the Rings. Like, why not get the eagle to fly the ring to the mountain? Oh, because that would be too easy, and the story would not happen. There is no way to explain it, without the author making shit up, to defeat my idea: like there is now an invisible barrier that eagles can't fly through.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 09:38:55 PM by Add Homonym »
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #136 on: April 04, 2014, 10:53:13 PM »
You had so much to say on your plate. And I'm glad you shared it all with us even if it's all out of subject.
But all this does not give me an answer. Even if my question are also out of subject, I really would like to have an answer to them since it's the third time I ask them and such...
Why would Jesus put himself in such a situation? Why did he not save himself from this torture?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 10:54:50 PM by Lukvance »
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #137 on: April 04, 2014, 11:04:19 PM »
You had so much to say on your plate. And I'm glad you shared it all with us even if it's all out of subject.
But all this does not give me an answer. Even if my question are also out of subject, I really would like to have an answer to them since it's the third time I ask them and such...
Why would Jesus put himself in such a situation? Why did he not save himself from this torture?

He was raised to think he was the messiah so...messiah-complex?

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Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #138 on: April 04, 2014, 11:14:44 PM »
Why would Jesus put himself in such a situation? Why did he not save himself from this torture?

Yeah, but you're asking me to buy into the fictitious story, and attempt to explain it, using things that the authors would approve of. There are many authors, inc. Paul, and his view is different. I can't come up with an explanation that would satisfy all the possible authors. Which one do you want me to write a solution for?

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #139 on: April 04, 2014, 11:16:27 PM »
For example, in the original story, Jesus was just a man, who got caught. He had not options.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #140 on: April 04, 2014, 11:21:41 PM »
Do you seriously believe that Jesus put Satan into Judas, (who just happened to be named "Judea"), so that Judas would be forced to report Jesus, and then commit suicide? Why didn't Jesus just walk into town, saying "Here I am. Authorities, Arrest me."
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #141 on: April 05, 2014, 12:06:35 AM »
I suppose I could invent another author's perspective.  God always seems to have a lot of trouble with Satan messing things up. So, maybe God originally wanted Jesus stoned, but Satan could see his imminent defeat, and so upped Jesus' punishment to crucifixion, to make God suffer as much as possible. And then God, said, "You're on, you bastard. I can take what you dish out." Then God manipulated the events so that Jesus would die quickly, and be got off the cross. We know God plays by strange rules.

That's one way of making Jesus suffer for no good reason, which is theologically consistent.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #142 on: April 05, 2014, 12:41:35 AM »
Dude...

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #143 on: April 05, 2014, 02:43:09 PM »
Lukvance, the reason the Jesus story has so many holes and so many things about it don't make sense is because IT IS A MADE UP STORY! Got that? You are like a Trekkie trying to make the "Spock's Brain" episode into a coherent narrative as if it really happened.

There may be some factual elements about the Jesus account. Like there may have been a Jewish guy with that name who preached in the region at the time, and who gained a following. No problem with that.

There might also have been a Jewish guy (same guy or someone else) who was caught by the Roman authorities and executed. No problem with that either.

There might even have been a mix-up about where the dead guy's body ended, whether it was left hanging to rot, thrown onto a trash heap, buried in the ground or put into a tomb.[1]

But the betrayal by the best friend, the magical disappearing body (that just had to mean that the guy rose from the dead, not that someone simply came and quietly buried him)  and the differing accounts of what happened at the tomb and afterwards?

That is myth, baby. If we took the name Jesus out and substituted any other  religious figure (Muhammed, Brahma, Zeus, Shango, Kokopelli) you would see that quite clearly. It's certainly not the kind of story that you would accept as factual if it was read on the news today.....

"This morning, a man who was executed three days ago came back to life. Three witnesses have reported seeing the man alive and well. In other news, graves are opening and previously deceased persons have been reportedly walking about. Any update on that sun standing still phenomenon, Bart?"

The facts don't add up to a coherent narrative. Because of that, it took a few hundred years to beat the story into a manner that a committee of religious leaders could all sign off on. And they had to put in enough magic to make Jesus into a god, so it still does not make sense.

In the year 2160, Trekkies might be able to do the same thing with Spock's Brain. :P
 1. Left to rot or thrown onto a trash heap seem a far more likely fate for a hated annoying criminal than a dignified burial or even more dignified entombment.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #144 on: April 05, 2014, 02:59:59 PM »
2160?

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.