Author Topic: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?  (Read 3377 times)

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Online SevenPatch

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2014, 05:04:45 PM »
What is the point of rules that treat periods like a magical bad spell?

 I don't know what you are talking about.

I would guess nogodsforme is talking about the Bible OT.


Leviticus 15:19-30
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When a woman has a discharge, and the discharge in her body is blood, she shall be in her menstrual impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening.  And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.  And whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and be unclean until the evening.  And whoever touches anything on which she sits shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and be unclean until the evening. Whether it is the bed or anything on which she sits, when he touches it he shall be unclean until the evening.  And if any man lies with her and her menstrual impurity comes upon him, he shall be unclean seven days, and every bed on which he lies shall be unclean.

If a woman has a discharge of blood for many days, not at the time of her menstrual impurity, or if she has a discharge beyond the time of her impurity, all the days of the discharge she shall continue in uncleanness. As in the days of her impurity, she shall be unclean.  Every bed on which she lies, all the days of her discharge, shall be to her as the bed of her impurity. And everything on which she sits shall be unclean, as in the uncleanness of her menstrual impurity.  And whoever touches these things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and be unclean until the evening.  But if she is cleansed of her discharge, she shall count for herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.  And on the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons and bring them to the priest, to the entrance of the tent of meeting.  And the priest shall use one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. And the priest shall make atonement for her before the Lord for her unclean discharge.


Leviticus 20:18
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If a man lies with a woman during her menstrual period and uncovers her nakedness, he has made naked her fountain, and she has uncovered the fountain of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from among their people.



Ezekiel 36:17
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Son of man, when the house of Israel lived in their own land, they defiled it by their ways and their deeds. Their ways before me were like the uncleanness of a woman in her menstrual impurity.


LOL, that Ezekial verse is messed up.  Yeah, whoever wrote that line wasn't sexist.  &)

Leviticus 18:19
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You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness.

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2014, 05:18:21 PM »
I would guess nogodsforme is talking about the Bible OT.
Leviticus 15:19-30 [...]
Leviticus 20:18 [...]
Ezekiel 36:17 [...]
Leviticus 18:19 [...]
Thank you for these. I guess we can all agree that these rules might apply before but not anymore. The only rules I know from the Bible that are timeless are those spoken in the gospel. (10 commandments and such)
613 Commandments are too much to live by. Jesus told us so :)
"If, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, as it did before Christ came, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what he came “to do.” On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish what he came to accomplish, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal regime today." - https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/485-did-christ-abolish-the-law-of-moses
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Online SevenPatch

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2014, 05:30:16 PM »
1. They do communicate, with those who listen. They don't force communication thou :(

Ah, okay, it's my fault.  I'm just not listening.  Since when is saying "Hello" to someone forced communication?!?!!

So I'm willfully ignoring "God" saying "Hello" to me.  You know, this doesn't even work when I do actually try to ignore someone, like some annoying jerk that I don't like.  Sure I may not respond to the jerk, but I still know that the jerk is communicating with me.

So how exactly does one not listen to clear and coherent communication?

Your answer to my first question is nonsense.

2. Because cookies are great! If consumed properly.

Okay, so then it's not the children's fault if they eat the cookies.  It is the parents fault and they only have themselves to blame.

Similarly, it is not any persons fault if they break "God's" rules.  It is "God's" fault and "God" has only "God's" self to blame.

3. Usually the child is not punished after death but right after eating the cookie.

Okay, so If I take the Lords name in vain, then am I going to be punished directly afterwords?  Hasn't happened yet.

If I start worshiping idols, will I be punished directly afterwards?  Nope.  Billions of people worship other gods, they seem to be doing just fine.

I have a tattoo, still waiting to be punished for that one.  I have polyester shirts, nope, no punishment yet.

I think you're confusing the correct metaphor, it isn't the parents punishing the children after eating the cookie, it is the other children that might punish a child after eating a cookie.

"God" doesn't punish anyone until after they die, the only punishment a human might receive while they are alive is from other humans.

4. Cookies are not created, they are bought :) you made a misstep there hehe. They bought it with everything else (dinner included).

That depends on what you thought cookies was supposed to represent.

I was talking about literal cookies, which can be baked (ie created). 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 05:37:17 PM by SevenPatch »
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Online SevenPatch

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2014, 06:03:48 PM »
Thank you for these. I guess we can all agree that these rules might apply before but not anymore. The only rules I know from the Bible that are timeless are those spoken in the gospel. (10 commandments and such)
613 Commandments are too much to live by. Jesus told us so :)
"If, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, as it did before Christ came, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what he came “to do.” On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish what he came to accomplish, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal regime today." - https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/485-did-christ-abolish-the-law-of-moses

I'm not unfortunately expert enough to go into as much detail on Bible interpretation as perhaps some others on these forums might be.

I personally don't really have interest in getting that far into interpretation as unfortunately there are many interpretations all claiming to be the correct ones, which leads to the conclusion that the Bible is pretty useless as it is too vague and ambiguous. 

This is why I choose the words "clear and coherent communication" in my other posts.  The Bible is about as far away from clear and coherent as one can get (not counting gibberish).  If this "God" character actually had any interest in communication and was in fact "God" then there would be no dispute about "God" existing or not.  Everyone would just know that "God" exists, everyone would clearly know what the rules are, and people could then use their free will to either obey the rules or not.

As it stands now, it is completely unclear whether "God" exists or not (and some versions of "God' clearly do not exist) and everyone who thinks there is a "God" all have different interpretations of the rules, which leaves everyone completely in the dark about if they are actually obeying the rules or not.  I mean, even if you wanted to obey the rules, and did everything you could to obey the rules, you could still have been wrong, and depending on the actual nature of "God" be sent to hell, limbo, purgatory or receive some other punishment. 

Why is "God" playing peekaboo with our "souls"?

Maybe "God" is just an evil trickster god.

Or who knows, maybe "God" doesn't exist.   
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline Lukvance

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Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2014, 06:35:08 PM »
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So I'm willfully ignoring "God" saying "Hello" to me.  You know, this doesn't even work when I do actually try to ignore someone, like some annoying jerk that I don't like.  Sure I may not respond to the jerk, but I still know that the jerk is communicating with me.
The Jerk does not loves you. Someone who loves you and respect you and knows you will not talk to you if you are not ready to listen.
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Your answer to my first question is nonsense.
I stand by it, it is simple and comprehensible by most.
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Okay, so then it's not the children's fault if they eat the cookies.  It is the parents fault and they only have themselves to blame
Really? I kind of disagree. It's the children fault to not listen to their parents.
"It isn't the parents punishing the children after eating the cookie, it is the other children that might punish a child after eating a cookie." I agree with you. That is why you get your punishment from other humans. Usually the punishment can be break down to "unhappiness" or "lesshappiness". The kid who eat the cookie that he shouldn't eat is still tasting the good taste of a cookie but this cookie will taste less good than if he obeyed the rules his parents gave him.
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"God" doesn't punish anyone until after they die
Even after you die he still doesn't punish you. He loves you too much for that.
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I was talking about literal cookies, which can be baked (ie created).
Even then the cookies have been created in the same time dinner was :) My answer remain the same.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2014, 06:35:30 PM »
I think I might have found your source at theweek.com

There's an interesting type of dishonesty in that article.

Sorry, but would care to elaborate? I thought the article was fair reasonable.

Fair and reasonable, but tap dancing.

Writerchick said that marriage was some kind of human invention. Marriage law is all through the Old Testament and the Roman empire. Christianity in it's typically gutless way, avoids mentioning that polygamy has been banned. You have to infer it from Paul's statements, and various dribblings.

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Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.…

Given that Paul doesn't like marriage at all, because he is a non-sexual, we can see that he is forbidding polygamy. Since Paul is divine, and he decrees it, then marriage becomes divine, even though he says that it's better not to.

You can also tell from the Sermon on The Hyperbole, that Jesus is also a non-sexual prude.

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Matthew 5:32
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

The TheWeek article says that
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The idea of marriage as a sexually exclusive, romantic union between one man and one woman is a relatively recent development. Until two centuries ago, said Harvard historian Nancy Cott, "monogamous households were a tiny, tiny portion" of the world population, found in "just Western Europe and little settlements in North America."

So, what is Nancy Cott talking about? Since pair-bonding was common in China, all over the place, and the Roman empire, the writer is suddenly using "monogamous" to mean those cultural marriages where divorce is forbidden. This only happens in the warped culture of Christianity, but it's nevertheless the culture we are talking about in this thread. Wherever you have polygamy, a lot of men have to miss out, unless they go into the army. So, accidental pair bonding is still going to common in cultures which allow polygamy, because there are not enough women.

Wherever Christianity went, and the Byzantine Roman culture went, they attempted to enforce permanent monogamy, because Paul said so, and Paul was divine. However, there is no rule in the Bible that says that marriage has to be done by a priest, or that you have to get married. So marriage is not divine in the sense that the Bible says anywhere that it is divine.

It does say that we are to reproduce and multiply (a divine decree), and that the two shall become one flesh Gen 2:24. Given that people have to reproduce by divine decree, God vaguely says you have to get married to do it, in Exodus:

[16] And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
[17] If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.


This is the scatter gun approach the Bible says, to saying sex outside marriage is bad
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Fornication/

Even though the writers of the Bible are incompetent, it can be deduced that marriage is divine. I think that covers it.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2014, 06:37:27 PM »
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"God" doesn't punish anyone until after they die
Even after you die he still doesn't punish you. He loves you too much for that.

How do you derive this fascinating doctrine? What Christian sect do you belong to?
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2014, 06:56:12 PM »
613 Commandments are too much to live by. Jesus told us so :)

I betting that if Jesus had told us so, there would be some clear language in the NT, to that affect. Perhaps:

Yes, do think that I have come to abolish the law, I have come to erase it, and replace it with my new commandments.

However this is all left up to Paul and Matthew to fight out. I'm not convinced.
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Offline Jag

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2014, 07:36:37 PM »
^^^ "And by the way, I know I should have mentioned it sooner, but better late than never right? Sorry about all the unnecessary death from infections and such, I forgot to tell you guys - wash with soap and water. Cheers!"
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline Lukvance

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Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2014, 07:43:46 PM »
How do you derive this fascinating doctrine? What Christian sect do you belong to?
I'm Catholic. And it just make sense when you read the gospel that God won't punish once you die. Jesus gave his life for your sins you know? to redeem you. I hope this answer all your questions.
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I'm not convinced.
Convinced of what? The meaning of the Greek term "kataluo" used in 17 places in the Bible? all pointing to the fact that Jesus said exactly what you wanted him to say : "Yes, do think that I have come to abolish the law, I have come to erase it, and replace it with my new commandments." ...in his words of course.

I think we are diverging now from the real question that, I still think, has been answered by WriterChick so many posts ago :)
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2014, 08:09:29 PM »
Jesus gave his life for your sins you know? to redeem you.

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re-deem; verb; to make something that is bad, unpleasant, etc. better or more acceptable

Redeem me from what? I'm a very nice person!  :-* I didn't ask for Jesus' death on my behalf.  Your religion [and others like it]assumes I'm a bad person without even knowing me. I could never embrace such ridiculous dogma.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2014, 08:33:01 PM »
Hey Backspace, welcome.
There is no assumption about you particularly. If you tell me you never lied or never sinned or never did wrong in your life, I will have to believe you since I don't know you but allow me to have my doubt. (you know what happens if you don't hehe)
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Your religion [and others like it]assumes I'm a bad person without even knowing me
My religion (Catholicism) assume that you are a good person that can be even better. Even our parents know they can be better, and that we (the children) can be better.
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I could never embrace such ridiculous dogma.
Me neither :)
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Online SevenPatch

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2014, 09:49:23 PM »
The Jerk does not loves you. Someone who loves you and respect you and knows you will not talk to you if you are not ready to listen.

If I can't even successfully ignore someone who doesn't love me, how can I successfully ignore someone who does love me.

Your response is irrelevant to my point and you still have not answered the original question.


I stand by it, it is simple and comprehensible by most.

Comprehensible by most?  I find it interesting that you would add that on to your sentance.  I find your answer to be nonsense, does that mean I don't comprehend it?


Really? I kind of disagree. It's the children fault to not listen to their parents.

How exactly is it the childrens fault for not listening to parents they've never met and don't even know exist?  The only instructions the children have are unclear, vague, incoherent and ambiguous.

It is the parents fault for not clearly and coherently communicating to the children.


The kid who eat the cookie that he shouldn't eat is still tasting the good taste of a cookie but this cookie will taste less good than if he obeyed the rules his parents gave him.

You mean the unclear, vague, incoherent and ambiguous rules written by someone or something that may or may not be these parents that have never been seen.

Nah, sorry, the cookies taste exactly the same.

Even after you die he still doesn't punish you. He loves you too much for that.

No Punishment! Everyone goes to heaven!  Sweet.  I thought you said you were Catholic?

Even then the cookies have been created in the same time dinner was :) My answer remain the same.

What answer?  I agree, you continue to not answer my questions.  Why are you responding if you're not going to answer my questions?

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Offline Lukvance

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Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2014, 10:42:45 PM »
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[...] how can I successfully ignore someone who does love me
maybe you misread. I wrote  "Someone who loves you and respect you and knows you will NOT talk to you if you are not ready to listen." I don't see how you can NOT ignore someone who is NOT talking to you.
Let me copy paste my answer to your question
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Why do the parents avoid clearly and coherently communicating with the children?
They do communicate, with those who listen.
Please don't tell me I do not answer your question because I do my best to not leave any questions without answer.
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[...] does that mean I don't comprehend it?
No it means that my little niece would understand the sense of my answer. You say they don't, I say they do, simple, makes sense, no?
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[...] parents they've never met and don't even know exist?  The only instructions the children have are unclear, vague, incoherent and ambiguous
They do know their parents and have met them (at least I did) The instructions are clear for those who are ready to listen to the instructions. (of course a baby saying lalala when an adult is trying to teach him something does make the message unclear vague incoherent and/or ambiguous)
Those who do not listen might have a hard time to understand the instructions, that's why people like me are offering help to simplify the instructions, make them more available to those who did not understand them the first time around, hoping that this time they will understand them.
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I thought you said you were Catholic?
I am. Not everyone goes do heaven. Only those who know and accept love.
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What answer?  I agree, you continue to not answer my questions.  Why are you responding if you're not going to answer my questions?
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Why doesn't the parent just create the cookies after dinner instead of toying with the "souls" of the children?
Cookies are not created, they are bought :) you made a misstep there hehe. They bought it with everything else (dinner included). And I added the Idea that the cookies could have been created at the same time dinner was.

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Why are you responding if you're not going to answer my questions?
I hope that the comments above will remove your feeling of not being answered.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2014, 11:40:54 PM »
^^^ "And by the way, I know I should have mentioned it sooner, but better late than never right? Sorry about all the unnecessary death from infections and such, I forgot to tell you guys - wash with soap and water. Cheers!"

That's because God plays trick or treat.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2014, 11:51:37 PM »
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I'm not convinced.
Convinced of what? The meaning of the Greek term "kataluo" used in 17 places in the Bible?

+1 for knowing that the NT was written by Greeks.

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I think we are diverging now from the real question that, I still think, has been answered by WriterChick so many posts ago :)

It's not too far away, because right after Jesus says that no part of the law shall fail, he talks about divorce being something that will send you to hell.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 12:26:34 AM by Add Homonym »
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2014, 12:16:09 AM »
...and then He dies for your sin. So you who divorced your wife won't have to go to hell.

In fact, Jesus did a radical thing for our righteousness. He gave his life for us so that we may be righteous. As Peter teaches (in Peter 2:24) :
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He himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by His wounds you have been healed
It is not necessary for us to gouge an eye out or cut a hand off. To be righteous, we just need to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the punishment of our sins, turn our lives over to him as our redeemer, put the confidence of our salvation upon him as our savior.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2014, 12:32:00 AM »
...and then He dies for your sin. So you who divorced your wife won't have to go to hell.

So, why in Matthew, does he not say that? Why did he say we would risk going to hell if we even slightly fornicated, if he was going to fix all that? It looks terribly as if the Jesus who was documented in Matthew came from a different sect to Paul's sect, and didn't believe that His coming death was anything except proof of his divinity.

Why does he say that you (Lukvance) are going to go to hell for preaching that Christians should not follow the law?
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

Does your righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees?
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2014, 12:51:52 AM »
So, why in Matthew, does he not say that? Why did he say we would risk going to hell if we even slightly fornicated, if he was going to fix all that?
Because it is still a bad thing to do and people should not do it. You have to keep in mind that he was addressing people that might not have gotten the message if he didn't say it the way he did.
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Why does he say that you (Lukvance) are going to go to hell for preaching that Christians should not follow the law?
Same thing, he is not talking to me. Context context context.
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Does your righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees?
No. But unlike them I have history on my side. I know Jesus died for my sins, they didn't at the time. Even if Jesus told them, they would not believe him.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2014, 12:59:55 AM »
^you "know" nothing but what what you want to believe you know.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2014, 03:19:21 AM »
In fact, Jesus did a radical thing for our righteousness. He gave his life for us so that we may be righteous.

Which is exactly why I flip the bird at Jesus and Christianity. I am responsible for my own shortcomings and I am the one who will take the rap and try to make amends. To expect this to be resolved by someone else is immoral. Someone who offers up their own life (even if only for 3 days) in order for me to be forgiven by them is a fucking moron. Add that this is the only way for them to forgive me and it also makes them immoral.

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It is not necessary for us to gouge an eye out or cut a hand off. To be righteous, we just need to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the punishment of our sins, turn our lives over to him as our redeemer, put the confidence of our salvation upon him as our savior.

"Dying" for 3 days and becoming king of the universe afterwards is not a sacrifice. It is a bribe to keep you from the god with the biggest stick.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 03:24:37 AM by Ataraxia »
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Online SevenPatch

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2014, 08:06:00 AM »
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[...] how can I successfully ignore someone who does love me
maybe you misread. I wrote  "Someone who loves you and respect you and knows you will NOT talk to you if you are not ready to listen." I don't see how you can NOT ignore someone who is NOT talking to you.

So you've given two different answers.  The first stating that the parents ("God") does communicate, with those who will listen which implies the children (myself and others) are not listening, therefore the children (myself and others) would have to be ignoring the clear and coherent communication in order to not be listening.

Your second answer now says that the parents ("God") do not even try to communicate because the parents ("God") already knows the children (myself and others) will not listen, which implies that the children (myself and others) would not listen anyway, therefore the children (myself and others) would be capable of ignoring the clear and coherent communication in order to not listen.

In both of your answers you place the blame on the children for the inability of the parents to clearly and coherently communicate with the children.

What you don't realize is that some children (myself) are very willing to listen yet there is no communication and the only answers they get as to why are nonsense like yours.

Your response does not refute the necessity of answering my question "how can I successfully ignore someone who loves me".  Your revised answer now raises a new question "do the parents actually love the children if they won't even try to clearly and coherently communicate".

Why is the onus of the parents clearly and coherently communicating on the children and not on the parents?

Do you realize it is the children's fault for not also having imaginary friends?

In order for an imaginary friend to communicate with a child, the child must first imagine the imaginary friend and then the imaginary friend can communicate.  What you are basically saying is that my imaginary friend would communicate with me, but I am just not imagining my imaginary friend is communicating with me so it is my fault.

You see, your answer doesn't function with anything that is real and exists, which is why you can't answer the subsequent questions.  If "God" exists and was a loving "God", then everyone would know that "God" exists as "God" would clearly and coherently communicate with everyone instead of behaving like an imaginary friend.  The existence of "God" would be as clear as everything else that clearly exists, like my neighbors who wave hi, or my actual family, or the Sun shining on a cloudless day. 

Let me copy paste my answer to your question
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Why do the parents avoid clearly and coherently communicating with the children?
They do communicate, with those who listen.
Please don't tell me I do not answer your question because I do my best to not leave any questions without answer.

You answered with a non-answer.  There are problems with your answers that cause them to fail to answer the questions.


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[...] does that mean I don't comprehend it?
No it means that my little niece would understand the sense of my answer. You say they don't, I say they do, simple, makes sense, no?

Actually, I never said they did not comprehend the answer.  The thing about comprehension is that for every individual, it is based on their cognitive capacity, understanding and knowledge.  It is possible for two people to comprehend something differently.

From your non-answer, it would seem you do infact think that I don't comprehend your answer.  Not surprising, and your avoidance of admitting as much is interesting.


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[...] parents they've never met and don't even know exist?  The only instructions the children have are unclear, vague, incoherent and ambiguous
They do know their parents and have met them (at least I did) The instructions are clear for those who are ready to listen to the instructions.

Yet it is not clear to all the children that the parents exist, only the children who insist on imagining the parents exist think that the parents exist.


(of course a baby saying lalala when an adult is trying to teach him something does make the message unclear vague incoherent and/or ambiguous)
Those who do not listen might have a hard time to understand the instructions, that's why people like me are offering help to simplify the instructions, make them more available to those who did not understand them the first time around, hoping that this time they will understand them.

I see, so explain again how it is the baby's fault for not being able to comprehend the communication and thus not being welcomed into heaven?

EDIT: Additionally, you are now confusing listening with comprehension.  Even if I don't comprehend what you are saying, I am still listening (or in this case reading), so I can still clearly see that you exist yet the existence of "God" is unclear.

Your earlier answer has now changed to "God does communicate, but only with those who are capable of comprehending the communication".  Do you notice how you have placed yourself above me, as if you are better than me and that is why you get to interact with the most awesome being who created everything.  Do you notice how you've defined things so that you are special and belong to an exclusive club.  All I have to do to join your club, is pretend, and accept what you say as the truth.

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I thought you said you were Catholic?

I am. Not everyone goes do heaven. Only those who know and accept love.

So what happens to those that don't go to heaven?

Why is heaven reserved for only those that "God" preselects?


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What answer?  I agree, you continue to not answer my questions.  Why are you responding if you're not going to answer my questions?
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Why doesn't the parent just create the cookies after dinner instead of toying with the "souls" of the children?
Cookies are not created, they are bought :) you made a misstep there hehe. They bought it with everything else (dinner included). And I added the Idea that the cookies could have been created at the same time dinner was.

Okay so you agree with me that it is illogical for "God" to create things one way, then set the rules in opposition only to not allow those that broke the rules into heaven.

2ND EDIT: Why is it okay for the parents to trick the children into thinking one thing, then tell them another thing just to not welcome those children into heaven?

Why would loving parents play such a cruel game with their children?

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Why are you responding if you're not going to answer my questions?
I hope that the comments above will remove your feeling of not being answered.

You are giving me non-answers in order for you to avoid having to actually answer the questions.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 09:59:38 AM by SevenPatch »
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2014, 08:47:40 AM »
So, why in Matthew, does he not say that? Why did he say we would risk going to hell if we even slightly fornicated, if he was going to fix all that?
Because it is still a bad thing to do and people should not do it. You have to keep in mind that he was addressing people that might not have gotten the message if he didn't say it the way he did.
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Why does he say that you (Lukvance) are going to go to hell for preaching that Christians should not follow the law?
Same thing, he is not talking to me. Context context context.
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Does your righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees?
No. But unlike them I have history on my side. I know Jesus died for my sins, they didn't at the time. Even if Jesus told them, they would not believe him.

I'm not convinced by your bluff.

The book of Matthew was written by Jewish Christians, who believed that the whole law had to be followed. Paul states this group existed in Galatians.

Your answers are glib, superficial, and desperate.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2014, 09:01:46 AM »
So, why in Matthew, does he not say that? Why did he say we would risk going to hell if we even slightly fornicated, if he was going to fix all that?
Because it is still a bad thing to do and people should not do it. You have to keep in mind that he was addressing people that might not have gotten the message if he didn't say it the way he did.

Oh, wait up. You are calling Jesus a liar. This I can live with, because he uses the same lies in Luke 16 as well.

Jesus says that Moses and the prophets have warned us about burning in hell
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
LIE. (In fact 2 lies, because he's also saying that a burning relative would not be as convincing as the nonexistent statements by Moses that we will go to hell.)

It's no wonder I don't believe in Jesus. Not only does he lie to manipulate, but he has different theologies in different gospels.
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2014, 09:02:33 AM »
So, why in Matthew, does he not say that? Why did he say we would risk going to hell if we even slightly fornicated, if he was going to fix all that?
Because it is still a bad thing to do and people should not do it.

It is just disfunctional people telling others what to do. There was a TV series recently which showed people over forty who had never had any sex because they had been indoctrinated by religion to think it was wrong. Religion had totally ruined their lives and they had to be trained to think differently before they even started the physical stuff. I only saw one episode but I was still surprised how much people allowed their own self destruction through religion.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2014, 12:55:12 PM »
Hello Ataraxia, Welcome to the discussion.
You seem to think that because Jesus gave his life for us, we don't have any responsibilities. Why? I don't think that the sacrifice of someone remove your responsibilities, it just helps...a lot.
A little bit like the sacrifice your parents had to do to give you proper education.
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Add that this is the only way for them to forgive me and it also makes them immoral
Why is this the ONLY way? Don't you know about prayer? or confession?
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"Dying" for 3 days and becoming king of the universe afterwards is not a sacrifice. It is a bribe to keep you from the god with the biggest stick
What make you think that Jesus/God wasn't king of the universe before he died?
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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2014, 02:15:04 PM »
What you don't realize is that some children (myself) are very willing to listen yet there is no communication and the only answers they get as to why are nonsense like yours.
I said that God talked to those who listen. What I'm saying is that you are not listening. How do I know that you are not listening? It's a bit like that kid with the hands around the ears shouting "lalala" and wondering how come his parents don't talk clearly to them. As you can see them doing the deed I can see you doing the same thing with God. You will first have to remove the hands and stop talking at the same time. From time to time He tries through people like me to talk to you. How could you listen to him when you find that what i'm saying doesn't make sense?
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Your response does not refute the necessity of answering my question "how can I successfully ignore someone who loves me".  Your revised answer now raises a new question "do the parents actually love the children if they won't even try to clearly and coherently communicate".
What make you say they don't clearly and coherently communicate? Couldn't it be that the child is not listening? (see the "lalala" example I took earlier)
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Why is the onus of the parents clearly and coherently communicating on the children and not on the parents?
sorry, I don't understand that question.
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Do you realize it is the children's fault for not also having imaginary friends? In order for an imaginary friend to communicate with a child, the child must first imagine the imaginary friend and then the imaginary friend can communicate.  What you are basically saying is that my imaginary friend would communicate with me, but I am just not imagining my imaginary friend is communicating with me so it is my fault.
I don't get this one either. I don't remember talking about imaginary friends.
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You see, your answer doesn't function with anything that is real and exists, which is why you can't answer the subsequent questions.  If "God" exists and was a loving "God", then everyone would know that "God" exists as "God" would clearly and coherently communicate with everyone instead of behaving like an imaginary friend.  The existence of "God" would be as clear as everything else that clearly exists, like my neighbors who wave hi, or my actual family, or the Sun shining on a cloudless day.
  For the existence of god discussion please go to : http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21563.650.html
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Let me copy paste my answer to your question
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Why do the parents avoid clearly and coherently communicating with the children?
They do communicate, with those who listen.
Please don't tell me I do not answer your question because I do my best to not leave any questions without answer.
You answered with a non-answer.  There are problems with your answers that cause them to fail to answer the questions.
Haha non-answer...that's new! Sorry but if you don't like the answer do go arround saying that I don't answer your question. Just state what you don't like about it and maybe try to formulate a better question?
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[...] does that mean I don't comprehend it?
No it means that my little niece would understand the sense of my answer. You say they don't, I say they do, simple, makes sense, no?
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Yet it is not clear to all the children that the parents exist, only the children who insist on imagining the parents exist think that the parents exist.
For the existence of god discussion please go to : http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21563.650.html
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(of course a baby saying lalala when an adult is trying to teach him something does make the message unclear vague incoherent and/or ambiguous)
Those who do not listen might have a hard time to understand the instructions, that's why people like me are offering help to simplify the instructions, make them more available to those who did not understand them the first time around, hoping that this time they will understand them.
I see, so explain again how it is the baby's fault for not being able to comprehend the communication and thus not being welcomed into heaven?
I don't remember talking about babies nor heaven. How could I then explain AGAIN? I don't remember explaining it a first time.
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EDIT: Additionally, you are now confusing listening with comprehension.  Even if I don't comprehend what you are saying, I am still listening (or in this case reading), so I can still clearly see that you exist yet the existence of "God" is unclear.
For the existence of god discussion please go to : http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21563.650.html
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Your earlier answer has now changed to "God does communicate, but only with those who are capable of comprehending the communication".  Do you notice how you have placed yourself above me, as if you are better than me and that is why you get to interact with the most awesome being who created everything.  Do you notice how you've defined things so that you are special and belong to an exclusive club.  All I have to do to join your club, is pretend, and accept what you say as the truth.
No need to pretend. Like science teach us, we need to try to reproduce the experience...many time. Also, you are right, sometime God communicate with me and I don't understand what he's saying. Every time this happens thou I always find some kind of reason why I didn't understood him correctly and find myself in the position of the little kid with the hands on the ears wondering how come he does not understand what his parents are saying. You are looking for answers, I'm giving them to you. Is the teacher above the student? I don't think so, but I understand how some could understand it that way.
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So what happens to those that don't go to heaven? Why is heaven reserved for only those that "God" preselects? 2ND EDIT: Why is it okay for the parents to trick the children into thinking one thing, then tell them another thing just to not welcome those children into heaven?
Maybe in another discussion. It's a pretty big question you are asking here. Assuming that heaven exist is assuming the existence of hell. Assuming that heaven is "reserved for only those that "God" preselects?" will need more proof.
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Okay so you agree with me that it is illogical for "God" to create things one way, then set the rules in opposition only to not allow those that broke the rules into heaven.
God does not set the rules HUMAN does. I thought we agreed on that already :(
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Why would loving parents play such a cruel game with their children?
I don't see how buying (or baking) cookies and setting rules about cookies is cruel. But the answer to that question might be : Because cookies taste great! A world with cookies is better than a world without :)
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You are giving me non-answers in order for you to avoid having to actually answer the questions.
Sorry but if you don't like the answer do go around saying that I don't answer your question. Just state what you don't like about it and maybe try to formulate a better/more precise question?
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2014, 02:31:35 PM »
Your answers are glib, superficial, and desperate.
NO! YOU ARE! (see, that's a good discussion point right there haha)
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The book of Matthew was written by Jewish Christians, who believed that the whole law had to be followed. Paul states this group existed in Galatians.
Yes that might be the context it was written in, I didn't verify as it does not change the answer to your questions.

Jesus did not lie. He told the truth at the time he told it. If you want him to lie it must have been said after his death. Read Ephesians 4:9-10 it might help you understand the complexity of what you are looking at.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Why give hormones and then create rules about sexual life?
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2014, 02:34:36 PM »
It is just disfunctional people telling others what to do. There was a TV series recently which showed people over forty who had never had any sex because they had been indoctrinated by religion to think it was wrong. Religion had totally ruined their lives and they had to be trained to think differently before they even started the physical stuff. I only saw one episode but I was still surprised how much people allowed their own self destruction through religion.
Yeah, I saw something on TV that said the same thing about education (they never went to school because they had been indoctrinated by religion to think it was wrong...etc) Crazy people in the world eh? Some even go as far as to blow themselves up killing innocent people at the same time. But hey! good thing this is not the norm...right?
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