Author Topic: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!  (Read 422 times)

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Offline El Guapo

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Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« on: March 17, 2014, 11:09:12 AM »
Evidence supporting some critical Big Bang Theories has been made by researchers at Harvard!

http://www.boston.com/news/science/blogs/science-in-mind/2014/03/17/harvard-led-team-detects-gravitational-waves-evidence-cosmic-inflation/319PYbiMlTc6r2MN3ID6XP/blog.html

Now it just needs to repeated by other teams, scrutinized by a strong global peer-reviewed system and held true to all other laws/theories of the cosmos.  No faith required, just a lot of hard work and learning!

Alternatively, I assume a church could just point out that all of the culminated (and growing) evidence in the origins of the cosmos (and thereby us) is not supported by their particular religious ancient texts and can be immediately disregarded.


Online wright

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 11:35:12 AM »
Thanks for posting this, Guapo! Here's a brief Scientific American article:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gravity-waves-cmb-b-mode-polarization/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

If I'm following this right, these observations (if they can be confirmed, which seems likely) indicate that the universe started expanding much sooner after the Big Bang than previously thought. This seems to show that all laws governing matter / energy, excepting gravity, were unified in the very early universe; something that's been theorized but not yet conclusively proven. Grand unified theory, in turn, predicts that other particles like the Higgs Boson exist, which could lead to an even deeper understanding of matter and energy.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Online Graybeard

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2014, 12:39:17 PM »
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/smoking-gun-reveals-how-inflationary-big-bang-happened-n54686

Update for 12:15 p.m. ET March 17: Here's what Arizona State University physicist Lawrence Krauss had to say about the BICEP2 findings in an email:

    "This is hugely important, if true. It is an empirical window on the universe at almost the beginning of time. We will need to wait to see if it is confirmed of course, but if it is, it is the best hope of directly testing ideas about how the universe behaved 10^-35 sec after the big bang. As I have described before, these results are allowing us to not only address physical questions, but to turn previously metaphysical questions into scientific ones, such as 'Why is there something rather than nothing.'

    "The results look very, very convincing. The experimenters were careful. They had to be. Not only does this result have tension with earlier claimed upper limits, but they knew the scrutiny on any such claim would be profound. They didn't want to screw up in front of the world."
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2014, 01:15:52 PM »
One of the articles I read about this mentioned that this probably means that there are lots of universes out there, not just ours. As in, probably an infinite number. An idea apparently supported by this discovery. That had been considered as one of the possibilities before, but this may be more evidence in that direction.

But hey, whose counting?  ;D
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2014, 08:24:49 PM »
For some reason I can't embed videos any more. If anyone has advice on the matter, let me know.

Anyway, here is a video of a physicist who is the father of the inflation theory portion of the big bang being told the above news for the first time. His emotional reaction is rather clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlfIVEy_YOA

Close to being an onion-cutting moment...
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Offline El Guapo

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2014, 08:40:55 AM »
Great video PP. 

Myself, I perform mindless office work and lack a similar passion for my own work.  Obviously from the video, it's immensely gratifying for these academics to finally see physical evidence supporting theories made in their field of study.  Proof to them (and all of us) that we're understanding more of the history and nature of the Cosmos and the promise of more to come . . .

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2014, 10:50:43 AM »
Obviously, this result was predicted a long while before it has been found. It is certainly amazing that we can predict something so hard to find and then actually find it too. Science has gone a long way and who knows where it goes next.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Irish

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2014, 11:03:17 PM »
For some reason I can't embed videos any more. If anyone has advice on the matter, let me know.

Anyway, here is a video of a physicist who is the father of the inflation theory portion of the big bang being told the above news for the first time. His emotional reaction is rather clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlfIVEy_YOA

Close to being an onion-cutting moment...

You know, I have no true idea what all this news actually means (other than being a huge piece of evidence supporting the Big Bang).  I'm not a physics minded person and the words from the announcing professor to Andrei Linde of "It's five sigma at point two (0.2)"[1] is jibberish to me.  But what I can appreciate is the immense relief and joy that professor must have felt knowing his entire life work was instantly validated after 30 years of work.

All you have to do is pause the video at 0:39 to see the immensity of the news on Dr. Linde.  And a few seconds later he literally goes weak and sways because of the news.  Powerful stuff.
 1. By the way, these words may go down as famous words in science
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2014, 11:51:18 PM »
As I understand it, where we used to say that we understood the Big Bang from a partial second after it started on, we can now say we understand it from the very beginning, and perhaps even before. The numbers that we're being recited had to do with the measurements and predicted gravity waves, as theorized by Dr. Linde.

And his reaction, and later words, are why I am willing to trust scientists rather than people whose every thought begins with "Jaeeee-zusssss sayyed..." Such passion is meek in comparison.
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Offline Ataraxia

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 02:24:06 PM »
It's a fantastic discovery, a 30 year wait worth every second to those who formulated the original theory.

What this does show is that it's meaningless to use time when not in relation to the observable universe. We use time relative to light (which is basically all that the CMB is at a wavelength invisible to the human eye) speed in a vacuum and this light appears to be 14billion years old, so we say that, relative to us, the observable universe began that long ago.

However (and this is where the mind melt comes), the expansion/inflation of the universe is faster than the speed of light, yet we are aware that if you travel faster than light, time goes in reverse. How do you fathom that out - that the thing which brought about the universe in its current observable state travels at a speed that would send time the other way? Huh? This is why it is totally incoherent to talk about time without the universe. It just makes no sense to us with our limited language and conceptualisation.
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2014, 07:32:54 PM »
For those of you still interested in this now five day old news, here is a great article explain of the significance of this finding:

https://medium.com/editors-picks/25c5d719187b

It isn't  short little synopsis. It takes some reading. But if you like this stuff, you'll enjoy the read. It is fascinating through and through.
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Online wright

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2014, 03:10:23 AM »
^^^Thanks, PP. I had no idea the "multiverse" theory was so strongly supported; amazing.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline Dark Rabbit

Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2014, 04:12:04 AM »
Only problem with multiverse theory is that there is a multiverse of them around. The multiverse expounded upon by Hugh Everett (many worlds interpretation of QM) is distinct from the multiverse that Lee Smolin proposes. Every physicist should have his/her his own multiverse. So, let' s fine tune on some specific multiverse here.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2014, 08:14:21 AM »
One of the articles I read about this mentioned that this probably means that there are lots of universes out there, not just ours. As in, probably an infinite number. An idea apparently supported by this discovery. That had been considered as one of the possibilities before, but this may be more evidence in that direction.



Christians already knew. Says so, right there in the bible.



John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2014, 08:20:57 AM »
One of the articles I read about this mentioned that this probably means that there are lots of universes out there, not just ours. As in, probably an infinite number. An idea apparently supported by this discovery. That had been considered as one of the possibilities before, but this may be more evidence in that direction.



Christians already knew. Says so, right there in the bible.

Good Lord! So the bible already knew about multiverses? It must be the most inspired book ever!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2014, 09:36:28 AM »
Only problem with multiverse theory is that there is a multiverse of them around. The multiverse expounded upon by Hugh Everett (many worlds interpretation of QM) is distinct from the multiverse that Lee Smolin proposes. Every physicist should have his/her his own multiverse. So, let' s fine tune on some specific multiverse here.

It is quite appropriate that there be many multiverse theories, don't you think?

I assume folks will be speculating about such things for several hundred thousand years into the future, because there is just so much we can know about stuff we can't know about. Luckily our existence isn't currently dependent upon knowing everything.

Which means that right now these various ideas are simply fun for most of us. Though I'm sure those scientists who take them seriously have a less jovial view of things.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Dark Rabbit

Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2014, 01:19:05 PM »
It is quite appropriate that there be many multiverse theories, don't you think?
Yeah, serves 'm right.
I assume folks will be speculating about such things for several hundred thousand years into the future, because there is just so much we can know about stuff we can't know about. Luckily our existence isn't currently dependent upon knowing everything.

Which means that right now these various ideas are simply fun for most of us. Though I'm sure those scientists who take them seriously have a less jovial view of things.
The deeper question is where the boundaries of human investigation really lie. There is a boundary somewhere I presume. Maybe it is less hard to swallow when that boundary is not on a sharp edge between a dynamic (big bang) state and a seemingly steady state multiverse.

Online wright

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2014, 01:46:45 PM »
The deeper question is where the boundaries of human investigation really lie. There is a boundary somewhere I presume. Maybe it is less hard to swallow when that boundary is not on a sharp edge between a dynamic (big bang) state and a seemingly steady state multiverse.

Could you clarify what you mean by "boundaries"? Do you mean the limits of our current knowledge, or that the origins of the universe might be beyond our ability to grasp conceptually? I agree that language begins to fail at precisely expressing the conditions of the very young universe (much less a possible multiverse), but isn't mathematics a tool for doing just that? 
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Dark Rabbit

Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2014, 02:02:55 PM »
The deeper question is where the boundaries of human investigation really lie. There is a boundary somewhere I presume. Maybe it is less hard to swallow when that boundary is not on a sharp edge between a dynamic (big bang) state and a seemingly steady state multiverse.

Could you clarify what you mean by "boundaries"? Do you mean the limits of our current knowledge, or that the origins of the universe might be beyond our ability to grasp conceptually? I agree that language begins to fail at precisely expressing the conditions of the very young universe (much less a possible multiverse), but isn't mathematics a tool for doing just that?
I mean the ultimate limit to what humans are able to know. There might be limits on what we can observe/ have empirical access to, or there might be limits to what the human mind is capable of grasping altogether. Already much of temporary physics is beyond the intellectual reach of many on the planet. The concepts used are so far away from intuitive understanding (like a particle going through two holes at once) that it becomes harder and harder to keep up. Also there might come an end to the capabilites of our mathematical tools. Normal logic does not hold in the quantum world. Already other frameworks are being explored (paraconsistent logic) to better understand it. But there is no universal/multi-universal law known that says that nature has to stick to the mathematics.

Online Graybeard

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2014, 03:34:36 PM »
The deeper question is where the boundaries of human investigation really lie. There is a boundary somewhere I presume. Maybe it is less hard to swallow when that boundary is not on a sharp edge between a dynamic (big bang) state and a seemingly steady state multiverse.
[The deeper question is where the boundaries of human investigation really lie.

I mean the ultimate limit to what humans are able to know.
There are limits to the amount of information any individual can know, but it is absolutely huge. So, whatever that is, it can be multiplied by a factor of about 80% of humanity at any one time plus all recorded information. -> it's quite a lot.

What we can understand depends only on an ability to communicate with others and ourselves. We have a tendency to break down things into small steps. Think of an equation. For those willing to apply themselves, this has never been a problem.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Big Bang - Now with more BANG!
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2014, 01:20:27 AM »
I came across this explanation of the discovery, presented in comic form, with one of the authors being one of the people who made the discovery. It clarified some stuff for me, and it might do the same for you. Unless you can't tear yourself away from Spiderman to read this.

(Its only one page, though with small print, which is hard on us old guys.)

http://phdcomics.com/comics.php
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