Author Topic: What is consciousness? Theists say ...  (Read 6463 times)

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Offline wheels5894

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #464 on: March 26, 2014, 03:53:58 AM »
So, Jesuis, we are still at the point where we started - that you are using the word 'consciousness' and it seems to have a meaning that is alien to us all. You refuse to explain exactly what you mean which is not helping. Look -

Consciousness is something that is know to each one of us because we experience it. It is the result of the chemical and electrical activity of brain cells. Now this is the only form of consciousness that we know about - consciousness based on a human brain. Now it could be that other higher animals are also conscious but that we don't currently know. We do know that the requirement for a brain rules out the majority of the world of plants and animals though.

You, Jesuis, talk about consciousness as though it is separated from brains - as though it was floating free and able to create things. Please be precise and explain just what you mean by this and how you know it to be the case.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #465 on: March 26, 2014, 04:27:48 AM »
And how - at the time - could you have told the difference?
No Idea. I live in the present moment. I have no skills set to jump in time to know anything for sure about the past or the future.

I would PRESUME you would use the same skill set as you would use today.  Eating sugar, or some such.  Sadly, you've never adequately explained how that works for a declaration of "god knowledge".  You are also at pains to tell us you have no knowledge of gods - which means you have never tasted their sugar.

If you have never tasted their sugar, how do you know their sugar exists?
I am reporting exactly what I am reading - I am providing the books and web pages of what they are actually saying. I claim nothing more than that what each says. I do not claim that Richard Dawkins says he is an atheist. I know he says that. It is in his book and on his web pages and in his videos. I can provide all these for you. I make no "claim to know" but "I know"  what he actually says.  Does everyone actually understand this? 

We do - but I think YOU do not.

What you have said there, in all that bold, is "theists claim they know god".  This is entirely correct and I - and I am sure everyone else here - would agree.  It is a simple and direct statement that documents the claims people make.

But you have NOT been saying that all along.  You have been making the statement "theists know god" - a statement that implies or assumes the truth of the statement.  Effectively, that statement says "it is true that theists know god" - and that is a million miles away from "theists claim they know god".

It's a subtle difference, but a vitally important one.  Perhaps it stems from English not being your first language.  It would be very helpful if you would explain the difference between the two statements below, with especialy reference to your latest answer quoted above.  Because - at the moment - I am unconvinced you fully appreciate the difference between the two statements.

1) "theists claim they know god"
2) "theists know god"
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #466 on: March 26, 2014, 04:39:46 AM »
There are only two options as to what could have been "going on back then".  The teachers were correct, or the teachers were incorrect, when they claimed knowledge of god.   
Why is there only two options.....

You tell me.  Seriously.  Tell me what the third option is between "were correct when they claimed to know god" and "they were incorrect when they claimed to know god"
There are too many options when we are making stuff up. You then have to use the falsifiable method to each scenario we mentally create. Chance are all of the options which are more than two will prove worthless, because it is all made up.  So what is the first thing we must know?

Hmm, nice dodge.  I know that we can make up all kind of stuff.....but I do not believe it applies in this kind of binary case.  So indulge me.  Use your great imagination and give me just one or two additional options that we can add to the set of:

"they were correct when they claimed to know god"
"they were incorrect when they claimed to know god"


I am saying the living theists is the person who knows and ask what is it that he / she teaches and whether it is falsifiable. A living theist is the only one that can prove to us who or what God is and how to know. If they cannot they are not the theist.

So you can only determine the truth of a person's claims if you can personally interact with and question them?

Then there is NO difference between:
1) Reading what a living theist claims in his book
2) Reading what a recently deceased theist claims in his book
3) Reading what a 2,000-years dead theist claims in his book.

Seriously, no difference at all if the individual is inaccessible for personal testing.  We can just as easily (or not) falsify a claim made in the writings of a long-dead theist as we can for one who wrote just yesterday.  If we have no access to the source himself, where exactly is the difference?

And that is my point.  You can't judge the pagans of 4,000 years ago because you cannot talk to them.  Okay, fine, if that's your position.  But by the same token then, you cannot judge the believers of today unless you yourself have personal access to them.  You can't have it both ways.

So as I've been saying for a while, to claim that a living theist is worth listening to when you personally have not questioned him is no different that claiming that a dead theist should be listened to.   And if THAT is the case, then there is NO case that can be made - from simply reading any claims being made - for choosing to first investigate this belief over that one.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #467 on: March 26, 2014, 05:21:57 AM »
I can say I do not know -- and have said it all the time. "I am an Atheist which means "I do not know". The question is whether you can say you do not know like I can.

Atheist means "I do not believe" - from Theism.  AGNOSTIC means "I do not know" - from gnosis, "to know".  Maybe if you used the correct word, instead of your own made up definitions, we might find common ground.
I first said atheist believe that there is no God and everyone got all upset with me....

Again, probably your poor English skills.  Before I go further, can you explain for me what (if any) difference you understand between the statements:

1) I have no belief in god
2) I believe there is no god.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline relativetruth

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #468 on: March 26, 2014, 05:22:07 AM »

  Is my English so hard to understand -- I saw an expert on English and asked him if what I am saying is wrong and although he first had difficulty in understanding it when he analysed what I said he said it is grammatically correct. Why is my posts being moderated???  Isn't this weird?? I am not teaching or preaching as others claim. I am not breaking any laws.


Consider this sentence.

'The pregnant computer coughed as she ran into the outer apples of Zyiscote'

Is it grammatically correct?
Does it make sense?
God(s) exist and are imaginary

Offline wheels5894

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #469 on: March 26, 2014, 09:23:36 AM »
For those interested, New Scientist on Friday has a main article on 'Consciousness' so may well be worth a read if you are near t one. If there are any pertinent snippets I'll post them.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #470 on: March 26, 2014, 10:14:56 AM »
Please show me how “only that which is all conscious creates consciousness” is not a creation of the mind.  Show me how consciousness is created.  Show me this all consciousness. 
Life is conscious or it is dead.

I didn’t ask “what is conscious and what is not conscious”, I asked how consciousness is created, I asked you to show me this all consciousness and I asked you to show me how “only that which is all conscious creates consciousness”.  Note that I didn’t actually put a question mark at the end of my sentences, I put a period.  Why did I do that? Because I didn’t expect you to actually address my questions, which as expected, you did not.

Sod off.


I know about the Easter bunny - I know who created it.  Same as with the Easter egg the Santa Claus and the Green Goblin. That is not what is being asked here.
Consciousness is not in the same category. According to the theists "Life is Conscious" and every human being knows that of life. When there is no life there is no consciousness. 

I never said consciousness was in the same category.  I said your “all consciousness” is in the same category.  Of course you don’t want to talk about the “all consciousness” do you, in the same way you don’t want to talk about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and fairies.  You want to  talk about something that can be shown to exist, like consciousness.  You want to talk about the presents and Easter eggs. 

You say, look at consciousness, and then assert, well consciousness means that an “all consciousness” exists.

You say, look at these presents, and then assert, well these presents mean that Santa Clause exists.

You say, look at these Easter eggs, and then assert, well these Easter eggs mean that the Easter Bunny exists.

You want to piggyback something imaginary (a desire from your mind) onto something that exists so you can keep believing something you are invested in.  Your cognative bias won't allow you to see your mistake.

Sod off.

[Moderated]

Theists are saying God is the all conscious and life is a part of it.



Sod off.
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #471 on: March 26, 2014, 10:42:13 AM »
For those interested, New Scientist on Friday has a main article on 'Consciousness' so may well be worth a read if you are near t one. If there are any pertinent snippets I'll post them.

NS prints too much fringe woo. They have to fill the pages with something. The truth is in the critique that they supply in the last few paragraphs, from some scientist who isn't fringe.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #472 on: March 26, 2014, 10:47:53 AM »
Why is my posts being moderated???  Isn't this weird?? I am not teaching or preaching as others claim. I am not breaking any laws.

It's not YOU who gets to decide that. This is not your website.

You can print preachy bullshit on your own website, where you have the freedom to annoy anyone you want. You don't have the freedom to waste people's time, here.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #473 on: March 26, 2014, 12:42:06 PM »
How ultimate power corrupts. Only the theists cannot be touched by greed ego and lust because they have become pure in the pursuit of God.

Yes but unfortunately, knowing “God” is ultimate power.  Any “Theist” who says that they know “God” is, contrary to what you say, being touched by greed ego and lust.  As soon as they have followers, they are unpure.  It is the unrelenting ego of the “Theist” that asserts that they know “God” as knowing “God” gives them power, control and fame.  Sure they may not lust for wealth, but wealth is not the only vice with which a person can lust for.  Some may lust just to subjugate others and do so by luring people into their fantasy that they know “God” and have answers for them.

A few may actually have been honest in their pursuit of knowing “God”,  but they also may have been unknowingly grossly mistaken.  Of course these “Theists” don’t offer any evidence either, which is why you, Jesuis, are so helpless in requests for evidence.

Why have these “Theists” not given you the indisputable evidence that makes it clear to everyone that “God” exists, evidence that would be as indisputable as two people having a conversation, the Sun and Moon or the stars in the night sky.  Your “Theists” have failed, as nothing they have done has had a positive impact on reality.

Sod off.

I have tried my best to bring a truth about the theist an atheists and to expose the one who knows as a Theist –

Yes, we know, you’ve tried SO HARD to dictate and subjugate your will onto us here.  Sod off.

I have not given the religious any special privileges in that quest saying "So long as any human beings  do not know God they are atheists".

Maybe not, but you have given yourself many special privileges, for instance, it is okay for you to claim anything without evidence.  Sod off.

However, I see a genuine need by everyone to keep their words and traditions going - I have concluded my attempt to bring wisdom is not working.

Yes, yes, whatever helps you sleep at night.  Keep telling yourself that, it isn’t your error, it is other peoples errors.  Proceed with the rest of your life thinking you are wise and everyone else is in error.  Sod off.

Although it is true that theists are the only ones that know God and Atheists are the rest of us

As I said weeks ago, you can keep saying that until the day you die, it won’t make it true.  Sod off.


I see everyone's need for their beliefs and rituals of bashing each other to remain in place.

It must be so nice and cozy sitting up on top of your high horse looking down on everyone while you dictate and subjugate your will onto others.  If only everyone would just submit to your rule, everything would be so much better wouldn’t it.  Yes, it will be better for you as supreme dictator.

Sod off.

Atheists believe there is no God

Wrong. Atheists do not believe there is a god or gods.  Thanks for playing the game of logic and reason, sorry you didn’t win today but sod off anyway.


and theists believe there is a God.

Hey, look you got something right!  Congratulations!

Yeah, sod off anyway.

It is a good place for you all to bash each other with your beliefs -- oh but could claim it is not a belief but would not recognize that the same exist for the theist. That makes a bunch believers who like to keep bashing each other over their beliefs and word games. Nothing different than Muslims and Jews at each others throats for who is right and whose prophet did not write any books Carry on.  It looks great and such peace you spread with such wisdom you have.

Yeah, cause your message of submitting to your doctrine is SOOO much better.  Hey everyone, wouldn’t it be SOOOO much better if we just submitted to Jesuis and accepted everything he says without any evidence whatsoever?!??!?! 

Who doesn’t want to live in a dictatorship where just one person or maybe a few people subjugate the masses with their knowledge of “God” without offering any evidence whatsoever.  That doesn’t sound anything like Muslim theocracies today or the Christian monarchies from the 9th to 19th centuries.

Sod off.

I am out. I am not bothering explaining my thoughts any more.

Explaining your thoughts?  Is that what you call dictating and subjugating your will?

Great, now you can sod off.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 12:55:56 PM by SevenPatch »
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #474 on: March 26, 2014, 10:55:35 PM »
I know now what to say - thanks for the wisdom.  We those theists don't know the truth about anything don't even know they believe and claim to know. Stupid idiots. We atheist know everything about there being no God that is the truth. Its now so obvious not sure why I never saw it - it is so plain and simple - those theists take the easy way out and say God did it What a bunch of idiots. Thanks so much for helping me with this stupid Idea I had. Not sure what ever got into me - I am so thankful for your intelligent conversations. How much better I am for it now that I understand. Thanks you.

<<The above is essentially Jesuis' response to all the points made on the last page of this thread.  I am sure you will all join me in taking them at face value: that what we have said has finally broken through and he understands and acknowledges our objections to his ideas.>>
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 03:00:14 AM by Anfauglir »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #475 on: March 27, 2014, 03:04:14 AM »
I am reporting exactly what I am reading - I am providing the books and web pages of what they are actually saying. I claim nothing more than that what each says. I do not claim that Richard Dawkins says he is an atheist. I know he says that. It is in his book and on his web pages and in his videos. I can provide all these for you. I make no "claim to know" but "I know"  what he actually says.  Does everyone actually understand this? 

It would be very helpful if you would explain the difference between the two statements below, with especialy reference to your latest answer quoted above.  Because - at the moment - I am unconvinced you fully appreciate the difference between the two statements.

1) "theists claim they know god"
2) "theists know god"
We atheist know everything about there being no God that is the truth. Its now so obvious not sure why I never saw it - it is so plain and simple - those theists take the easy way out and say God did it

Sorry Jesuis - while I'm glad you can now comprehend my argument, I didn't spot your actual answer to my question.  I'd be most grateful if you would answer it, I'm sure it would help us progress.

Please explain the difference between the two statements below, with especialy reference to your latest answer quoted above.  

1) "theists claim they know god"
2) "theists know god"
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #476 on: March 27, 2014, 09:30:05 AM »
<<The above is essentially Jesuis' response to all the points made on the last page of this thread.  I am sure you will all join me in taking them at face value: that what we have said has finally broken through and he understands and acknowledges our objections to his ideas.>>

I detect a hint of sarcasm.

I don't think it's possible to penetrate Jesuis' learning disorder.   What I'm still perplexed about, is why he needs to instill his wisdom upon us, an not his family, or indeed anywhere his soapbox will erect.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #477 on: March 27, 2014, 10:22:53 AM »
The thing is, we don't know if theists (whether gnostic or agnostic) actually know anything, because there's no way to evaluate their claims.  But we do know that people can and have put up a charismatic pretense at 'knowing' something in order to fool others into following then.  Usually, it has to do with money or power, such as a con man trying to convince people to spend money on something that is worthless, or someone trying to sell books promising that you can learn a foreign language in a week, or whatever else.

So, we know that there are people out there who are trying to scam us out of our time or money with worthless stuff, and we don't know if what theists offer is valid or not.  Indeed, since the livelihood of a con man depends on them being charismatic and seeming to be knowledgeable and trustworthy - exactly the qualities seen in proponents of religion and similar beliefs - it is not smart to merely take their word for it.  Especially since people have an amazing talent for rationalization, to convince themselves that what they believe is true even in the face of contradiction.

In short, it is not reasonable to expect other people to believe something merely because someone else claims to know it.  They have to be able to support their claims with evidence that can pass skeptical muster.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #478 on: March 27, 2014, 12:13:29 PM »
I am reporting exactly what I am reading - I am providing the books and web pages of what they are actually saying. I claim nothing more than that what each says. I do not claim that Richard Dawkins says he is an atheist. I know he says that. It is in his book and on his web pages and in his videos. I can provide all these for you. I make no "claim to know" but "I know"  what he actually says.  Does everyone actually understand this? 

It would be very helpful if you would explain the difference between the two statements below, with especialy reference to your latest answer quoted above.  Because - at the moment - I am unconvinced you fully appreciate the difference between the two statements.

1) "theists claim they know god"
2) "theists know god"
We atheist know everything about there being no God that is the truth. Its now so obvious not sure why I never saw it - it is so plain and simple - those theists take the easy way out and say God did it

Sorry Jesuis - while I'm glad you can now comprehend my argument, I didn't spot your actual answer to my question.  I'd be most grateful if you would answer it, I'm sure it would help us progress.

Please explain the difference between the two statements below, with especialy reference to your latest answer quoted above.  

1) "theists claim they know god"
2) "theists know god"
Theists do not know God they only claim to know God. It is clear to me now. Thank You.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #479 on: March 27, 2014, 12:16:38 PM »
<<The above is essentially Jesuis' response to all the points made on the last page of this thread.  I am sure you will all join me in taking them at face value: that what we have said has finally broken through and he understands and acknowledges our objections to his ideas.>>

I detect a hint of sarcasm.

I don't think it's possible to penetrate Jesuis' learning disorder.   What I'm still perplexed about, is why he needs to instill his wisdom upon us, an not his family, or indeed anywhere his soapbox will erect.
You are my friend you have helped me with this problem of misinterpretation of the books I was reading. Consciousness does not observe consciousness it observes higgs bosons and atoms and particles - what was I thinking. I now understand with startling clarity. Thank you very much.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Online Graybeard

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #480 on: March 27, 2014, 12:37:50 PM »
Theists do not know God they only claim to know God. It is clear to me now. Thank You.
I think we need to be clearer:

If someone asks you "Do you know Mr XYZ", if you are Mr XYZ's brother or great friend, you can say, "Yes." But if Mr XYZ is a film star from a country you have never been to, you can still answer "Yes". But here, the verb "to know" has a different meaning.

If Mr XYZ is a character in some fiction novel, you can still say "Yes." but again "know" has yet another meaning.

Finally, if Mr XYZ is a deity, you may still say, "Yes." but this again is separated from even the meaning of "to know" when used for a fictional character as there is a distinction between a fictional character and a character established by a philosophical and cultural background.

Atheists and agnostics understand the concept of gods; they can know of gods but cannot "know" gods any more than you can know Harry Potter.

Theists have a faith that there is(are) a god(s), a faith that, to them, approaches very close to a certainty of the knowledge that there is(are) a god(s) but, that in the final analysis, is not knowledge.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #481 on: March 27, 2014, 12:44:04 PM »
Theists do not know God they only claim to know God. It is clear to me now. Thank You.
I think we need to be clearer:

If someone asks you "Do you know Mr XYZ", if you are Mr XYZ's brother or great friend, you can say, "Yes." But if Mr XYZ is a film star from a country you have never been to, you can still answer "Yes". But here, the verb "to know" has a different meaning.

If Mr XYZ is a character in some fiction novel, you can still say "Yes." but again "know" has yet another meaning.

Finally, if Mr XYZ is a deity, you may still say, "Yes." but this again is separated from even the meaning of "to know" when used for a fictional character as there is a distinction between a fictional character and a character established by a philosophical and cultural background.

Atheists and agnostics understand the concept of gods; they can know of gods but cannot "know" gods any more than you can know Harry Potter.

Theists have a faith that there is(are) a god(s), a faith that, to them, approaches very close to a certainty of the knowledge that there is(are) a god(s) but, that in the final analysis, is not knowledge.
So true -- What do I know. It is all words and you have been telling me that all the time. How stupid I have been. I should have known better. Now I know better. Thank you for clarifying that point.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 12:50:32 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #482 on: March 27, 2014, 04:39:53 PM »
<<The above is essentially Jesuis' response to all the points made on the last page of this thread.  I am sure you will all join me in taking them at face value: that what we have said has finally broken through and he understands and acknowledges our objections to his ideas.>>

I detect a hint of sarcasm.

I don't think it's possible to penetrate Jesuis' learning disorder.   What I'm still perplexed about, is why he needs to instill his wisdom upon us, an not his family, or indeed anywhere his soapbox will erect.

Agreed,  he is faking it.  He's still using his woo talk, only now he is asserting things that he thinks we'll like which is a clear indication that he doesn't get it.
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline median

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #483 on: March 27, 2014, 10:11:16 PM »
I know now what to say - thanks for the wisdom.  We those theists don't know the truth about anything don't even know they believe and claim to know. Stupid idiots. We atheist know everything about there being no God that is the truth. Its now so obvious not sure why I never saw it - it is so plain and simple - those theists take the easy way out and say God did it What a bunch of idiots. Thanks so much for helping me with this stupid Idea I had. Not sure what ever got into me - I am so thankful for your intelligent conversations. How much better I am for it now that I understand. Thanks you.

<<The above is essentially Jesuis' response to all the points made on the last page of this thread.  I am sure you will all join me in taking them at face value: that what we have said has finally broken through and he understands and acknowledges our objections to his ideas.>>

Even though your sarcasm shines clear as day here it still doesn't change the fact that the essence of your post is pretty much right on. Theism is nonsense. It a pie in sky assertion, without evidence or good reason. It is one big "b/c I say so" package of wishful thinking for those who do in fact want to take the easy way out - making themselves feel comfortable and important in the process.

The second part, which for some reason you missed, is that claims are like assholes. Everyone has one and most of them stink. You need actual evidence, not just claims of belief. Anybody can claim to believe (or hold as true to) anything. None of that makes a bit of difference to the actual truth or falsify of said claims.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #484 on: March 28, 2014, 10:31:43 AM »
You are my friend you have helped me with this problem of misinterpretation of the books I was reading.

I'm surprised that you admit to reading books.  You do know that the books that you have read, are all conscious, and are imbued with truth from the creator. No matter how wrong the book appears to be, they all have a grain of conscious truth in them.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #485 on: April 01, 2014, 07:33:13 AM »
Please explain the difference between the two statements below, with especialy reference to your latest answer quoted above.  

1) "theists claim they know god"
2) "theists know god"
Theists do not know God they only claim to know God. It is clear to me now. Thank You.

Sorry - life has been busy the last few days.

Jesuis, if you are still around, I note that you STILL did not actually answer the question I posed.  All sarcasm aside, I honestly think you would find it useful to answer the question, and to distinguish between the two statements there.  At the very least, I suspect it would help you understand some of the nuances of the English language, which may not be present in your native tongue.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?