Author Topic: What is consciousness? Theists say ...  (Read 6106 times)

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #435 on: March 24, 2014, 02:28:29 AM »
That right - a theist knows God and an atheist does not.

Wrong again. Kirpal is telling you that he does not know God, and you shouldn't claim that he does, until you have experienced it for yourself. You babble his possible bullshit, without experiencing what he claims can be done in one sitting.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #436 on: March 24, 2014, 02:36:41 AM »
I am going to ask you some blunt questions that should have been asked  weeks ago. Due to your skill of not talking about anything useful, interesting, or important, they have been missed.

1) Do you believe what is written in the New Testament?
2) Do you have any suspicions about any of the books in the New Testament being faked?
3) Did life evolve? Or, was it created, in form?
4) Did life need help from God to evolve?
5) How old is the Earth?
6) How long ago did life start to evolve?
7) Do you believe that there are other intelligent life forms on other planets?
8 ) Do you believe in demonic possession?
9) Do you believe what is written in the Old Testament?
10) Do you believe that Christians are on a path that will see them into the afterlife?
11) Do you believe in an afterlife?
11a) What is the point of the afterlife?
12) Do you believe in karma? If so, explain it.
13) Do you believe in reincarnation? If so, explain what type.
14) Do you believe that the Indian saints can transfer guruship, by passing it from their eyes?

That should do us a while.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Nam

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #437 on: March 24, 2014, 02:54:24 AM »
Does Jesuis also realize, and which has mentioned to him a billion times[1] that the most peaceful places on Earth are places that lack religion not have it in abundance.

-Nam
 1. literally...well...not literally
There are no peaceful places on Earth -- literally speaking.
Peace is observed by that which is conscious. The consciously aware creates peace wherever he/she is.

This is gibberish. I am replying to a statement made and you're answering by saying gibberish. You say that religion brings peace and love yet the worst places on Earth are religious countries and the best places on Earth are places that lack religion which proves you wrong and you reply with gibberish.

You're a troll. Period.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #438 on: March 24, 2014, 03:02:41 AM »
Are we really sunk so low as to bang on about atheists lacking morals? Does Jesuis really think morals are only locked into a religion? Judging by the way religions have handled moral matters over the centuries I don't think they have much to say about morals.

Well Jesuis, I am free of the control of gods and religions and I have to make up my own mind about what is right and wrong. I could decide a killing spree would be in order, or to go few or a few bank raids (fun in a wheelchair!) because I think some people and organizations are immoral and need to be taught a lesson. Yet I don't do any f these things. Rather I think that looking after people is more important - respecting them and helping where possible - is the right moral way.

So while I won't be on the porn, drugs etc. you mention, bar a beer and a glass of wine tonight, I do not consider your comments make any sense and neither do they reflect the world as I see it.
I was pointing that Theism has a moral ethical teacher - atheism doesn't. 
I am sure most of us in the civilised world have been born into a society judeo/christian/islamic/buddhist/hindu or sikh through influence and these have theists teachings that are creating the concrete that binds the societies moral fiber for the lives in such a society for the promotion of more and more humane interaction.  We know what they say we should do and the society is being built on their influence.

However,  for argument sake - do you think it would the theist would have been promoting any of these negative agendas?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #439 on: March 24, 2014, 03:05:39 AM »
Does Jesuis also realize, and which has mentioned to him a billion times[1] that the most peaceful places on Earth are places that lack religion not have it in abundance.

-Nam
 1. literally...well...not literally
There are no peaceful places on Earth -- literally speaking.
Peace is observed by that which is conscious. The consciously aware creates peace wherever he/she is.

This is gibberish. I am replying to a statement made and you're answering by saying gibberish. You say that religion brings peace and love yet the worst places on Earth are religious countries and the best places on Earth are places that lack religion which proves you wrong and you reply with gibberish.

You're a troll. Period.

-Nam
I have never said that -- you will have to retract that or prove I did say that.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #440 on: March 24, 2014, 03:07:08 AM »
That right - a theist knows God and an atheist does not.

Wrong again. Kirpal is telling you that he does not know God, and you shouldn't claim that he does, until you have experienced it for yourself. You babble his possible bullshit, without experiencing what he claims can be done in one sitting.
I did not understand that from what I read.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #441 on: March 24, 2014, 03:47:28 AM »
I am going to ask you some blunt questions that should have been asked  weeks ago. Due to your skill of not talking about anything useful, interesting, or important, they have been missed.

1) Do you believe what is written in the New Testament? - Have not read it.

2) Do you have any suspicions about any of the books in the New Testament being faked? Never read them either so cannot judge.

3) Did life evolve? Or, was it created, in form? No idea

4) Did life need help from God to evolve? No Idea

5) How old is the Earth? No Idea

6) How long ago did life start to evolve? No idea

7) Do you believe that there are other intelligent life forms on other planets? No idea

8 ) Do you believe in demonic possession? Never seen any except in movies. Constantine and another that claimed it was about a real incident.

9) Do you believe what is written in the Old Testament? Have not read it either. I am a born atheist- looking for the truth - that which cannot change 

10) Do you believe that Christians are on a path that will see them into the afterlife? What is a Christian - If you love me follow my commandment. If you don't piss off.

11) Do you believe in an afterlife? No idea. Have read a lot of NDE OBE and Regressive hypnosis stuff and all religions say good deeds take you higher and bad deeds take you lower, that consciousness is energy and energy can only change form.

11a) What is the point of the afterlife? Theists say - The present human life is to know God the after life is a product of our desires.

12) Do you believe in karma? If so, explain it. Second law of motion in physics - An eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth - to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

13) Do you believe in reincarnation? If so, explain what type. I see Life is a journey of births and deaths - Coded in our DNA is all our previous lives and our conscious awareness has observed it and recorded it.

14) Do you believe that the Indian saints can transfer guruship, by passing it from their eyes? No idea. Did not understand that article you posted. Do yu have any idea what they are talking about?

That should do us a while.
Sorry I do not do belief very well.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Nam

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #442 on: March 24, 2014, 10:51:23 AM »
Does Jesuis also realize, and which has mentioned to him a billion times[1] that the most peaceful places on Earth are places that lack religion not have it in abundance.

-Nam
 1. literally...well...not literally
There are no peaceful places on Earth -- literally speaking.
Peace is observed by that which is conscious. The consciously aware creates peace wherever he/she is.

This is gibberish. I am replying to a statement made and you're answering by saying gibberish. You say that religion brings peace and love yet the worst places on Earth are religious countries and the best places on Earth are places that lack religion which proves you wrong and you reply with gibberish.

You're a troll. Period.

-Nam
I have never said that -- you will have to retract that or prove I did say that.

Reply# 405, and who knows how many other posts of yours says, basically: atheism brings porn and slavery and theists (who are religious--they are synonymous) bring peace and love.

Tell me how that isn't what you said and what you always have been promoting since you got here?

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline wheels5894

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #443 on: March 24, 2014, 11:20:06 AM »
Are we really sunk so low as to bang on about atheists lacking morals? Does Jesuis really think morals are only locked into a religion? Judging by the way religions have handled moral matters over the centuries I don't think they have much to say about morals.

Well Jesuis, I am free of the control of gods and religions and I have to make up my own mind about what is right and wrong. I could decide a killing spree would be in order, or to go few or a few bank raids (fun in a wheelchair!) because I think some people and organizations are immoral and need to be taught a lesson. Yet I don't do any f these things. Rather I think that looking after people is more important - respecting them and helping where possible - is the right moral way.

So while I won't be on the porn, drugs etc. you mention, bar a beer and a glass of wine tonight, I do not consider your comments make any sense and neither do they reflect the world as I see it.
I was pointing that Theism has a moral ethical teacher - atheism doesn't. 
I am sure most of us in the civilised world have been born into a society judeo/christian/islamic/buddhist/hindu or sikh through influence and these have theists teachings that are creating the concrete that binds the societies moral fiber for the lives in such a society for the promotion of more and more humane interaction.  We know what they say we should do and the society is being built on their influence.

However,  for argument sake - do you think it would the theist would have been promoting any of these negative agendas?

Well, for one example, look at those opposed to the abolition of slavery. the Southern States, the deeply religious area of the USA, were arguing that slavery was OK, that it was allowed in their bibles. I think we would all agree that slavery is a negative agenda wouldn't we? While we are at it, the caste system in Hinduism is pretty negative too - especially if you are low caste anyway. Need any more?
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #444 on: March 24, 2014, 11:37:41 AM »
I think this sums it up:

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #445 on: March 24, 2014, 01:15:07 PM »
Jesuis

Considering that it took most of six months (or so it seemed) for you to finally get across what you meant by "atheists don't know god, theists do" or however you worded it, how long do you think it will take for you to get your next point across?

Especially since you could have explained it in one paragraph if you weren't so hardheaded and insistent upon speaking silly instead of using words as they were intended.

You could have said something like this with your first post.

rational jesuis
Quote
I know that there is a god but I have not found a way to know him, hence I see myself as an atheist. And because of my towering ego, I assume that all who identify as atheists see the world the same way I do. They just define atheism wrong.  All we atheists have to do is get in touch with our consciousness, by finding a god-aware theist teacher, and he will guide us to this wonderful god we don't currently know. This truth is obvious to me, so it is of course obvious to you as well, even though most of you are in denial about all this shit.

There, was that so hard? But no, you had to trample all over our sensibilities with your poorly stated claims. For the aforementioned six months, simulated or not.

Now that I finally think I understand what you meant by those words (though I of course disagree), give me a reason to have hope that you will ever communicate effectively. If you can't even do that, then I'll know that you have no interest in talking to us, only interest in talking at us. And that (as you've already proven) is never any fun.
That bold bit makes no sense - how could I say say that. I thought I lacked the power of good English.

How can you POSSIBLY say that theists know god but not know that there is one for them to know?

As us real atheists said over and over, if there is no god, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO KNOW HIM! It is possible to be deluded into thinking one knows a god, but if there isn't really a god, then he cannot be known. There is nothing there to know.

So either you don't think there is a god, and understand that theists only think they know a god, or you know there is a god and think that theists know that god. There is no in-between. Not the way you are trying to state it.

If you wanted to say "If there is a god, theists know that god, and I, as an atheist, don't know that god", that's fine. But you are making it black and white and insisting that while you stand on the white side and are correct, the black side is also correct. And that makes no sense whatsoever.

Of course this is what we've been saying for what now seems like a whole frickin' year and I assume you'll still ignore everything I just said and come up with yet another completely nonsensical retort. Because that appears to be the only talent you have.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #446 on: March 24, 2014, 01:25:15 PM »
Are we really sunk so low as to bang on about atheists lacking morals? Does Jesuis really think morals are only locked into a religion? Judging by the way religions have handled moral matters over the centuries I don't think they have much to say about morals.

Well Jesuis, I am free of the control of gods and religions and I have to make up my own mind about what is right and wrong. I could decide a killing spree would be in order, or to go few or a few bank raids (fun in a wheelchair!) because I think some people and organizations are immoral and need to be taught a lesson. Yet I don't do any f these things. Rather I think that looking after people is more important - respecting them and helping where possible - is the right moral way.

So while I won't be on the porn, drugs etc. you mention, bar a beer and a glass of wine tonight, I do not consider your comments make any sense and neither do they reflect the world as I see it.
I was pointing that Theism has a moral ethical teacher - atheism doesn't. 
I am sure most of us in the civilised world have been born into a society judeo/christian/islamic/buddhist/hindu or sikh through influence and these have theists teachings that are creating the concrete that binds the societies moral fiber for the lives in such a society for the promotion of more and more humane interaction.  We know what they say we should do and the society is being built on their influence.

However,  for argument sake - do you think it would the theist would have been promoting any of these negative agendas?

Well, for one example, look at those opposed to the abolition of slavery. the Southern States, the deeply religious area of the USA, were arguing that slavery was OK, that it was allowed in their bibles. I think we would all agree that slavery is a negative agenda wouldn't we? While we are at it, the caste system in Hinduism is pretty negative too - especially if you are low caste anyway. Need any more?
But wasn't it that same bible that was used by others to think more humanely and adopt the moral high ground by the more consciously aware, that all men were born equal. And that it was the Roman influence of slavery that these people have adopted and have kept. Doesn't the rich see everyone else as pawns in their struggle to be more and more powerful than the other Guy? Look at what Rupert Murdoch did during the build up to the Iraq war.  How ultimate power corrupts. Only the theists cannot be touched by greed ego and lust because they have become pure in the pursuit of God.

I have tried my best to bring a truth about the theist an atheists and to expose the one who knows as a Theist -- I have not given the religious any special privileges in that quest saying "So long as any human beings  do not know God they are atheists". However, I see a genuine need by everyone to keep their words and traditions going - I have concluded my attempt to bring wisdom is not working.

Although it is true that theists are the only ones that know God and Atheists are the rest of us I see everyone's need for their beliefs and rituals of bashing each other to remain in place.

Atheists believe there is no God and theists believe there is a God. It is a good place for you all to bash each other with your beliefs -- oh but could claim it is not a belief but would not recognize that the same exist for the theist. That makes a bunch believers who like to keep bashing each other over their beliefs and word games. Nothing different than Muslims and Jews at each others throats for who is right and whose prophet did not write any books Carry on.  It looks great and such peace you spread with such wisdom you have.
I am out. I am not bothering explaining my thoughts any more.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #447 on: March 24, 2014, 01:26:37 PM »
How can you POSSIBLY say that theists know god but not know that there is one for them to know?

As us real atheists said over and over, if there is no god, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO KNOW HIM! It is possible to be deluded into thinking one knows a god, but if there isn't really a god, then he cannot be known. There is nothing there to know.

So either you don't think there is a god, and understand that theists only think they know a god, or you know there is a god and think that theists know that god. There is no in-between. Not the way you are trying to state it.

If you wanted to say "If there is a god, theists know that god, and I, as an atheist, don't know that god", that's fine. But you are making it black and white and insisting that while you stand on the white side and are correct, the black side is also correct. And that makes no sense whatsoever.

Of course this is what we've been saying for what now seems like a whole frickin' year and I assume you'll still ignore everything I just said and come up with yet another completely nonsensical retort. Because that appears to be the only talent you have.

ParkingPlaces, you just haven't elevated your consciousness enough to know it's Energy.  You keep focusing on the consciousness when you should in fact focus on the Consciousness.  If only you had a teacher you would understand what you know, and cease focus on the Things that atheists don't know.

It's all about frequency and the Word.  Theists know god, atheists don't.  Paulie Tweechle, Signa Krashnamorf, Murhammon Jesus, Nanakticktock...these are all Teachers of Theists and theists.  The all consciousness knows this, and you can Know it too.  You just need to read more Tweechle diaries and the teaching of Nanakticktock.  If only your humaneness could see the all consciousness, then you'd understand what the words of Signa Krashnamorf and Herve Villechaize in their Theist teachings to the theists.  You atheists just don't understand.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline median

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #448 on: March 24, 2014, 01:34:30 PM »
I was pointing that Theism has a moral ethical teacher - atheism doesn't. 
I am sure most of us in the civilised world have been born into a society judeo/christian/islamic/buddhist/hindu or sikh through influence and these have theists teachings that are creating the concrete that binds the societies moral fiber for the lives in such a society for the promotion of more and more humane interaction.  We know what they say we should do and the society is being built on their influence.

However,  for argument sake - do you think it would the theist would have been promoting any of these negative agendas?

First, atheism is not a belief. It is not a belief "system". Theism is the belief in a god and atheism is simply the lack of that belief. If you are attempting to argue that theists of different traditions (and through history) have merely arbitrary moral teachers, by their own constructs, great! I agree. Theists (just like everybody else) have made up their own morality to suit their beliefs. But this doesn't say anything about the rest of the people in the world who do not agree. Many countries are leaning far less religious and have statically less crime than theistic countries do. This idea that theists are the only ones with moral "concrete" is just another gullible belief you have concocted. Religion has always been used as a justification for accomplishing just about any end the religious person wants to get. This is not so with non-belief. People do not act upon things they don't believe. They act upon things they do believe (such as believing that life is infinitely valuable because it is finite and therefore that we ought to be ethical toward each other; i.e. - increase well being and minimize unnecessary harm) so that we can maintain cooperative societies. The middle east is a perfect example of how religion is not ethical or peaceful. It seeks to force upon others the arbitrary dictates of bronze-age pre-scientific goat herders. The "Old Testament" is likewise in similar fashion. This "Yahweh" god sanctions, endorses and/or commands slavery, genocide, infanticide, stoning homosexuals/unruly children, killing everyone all at once with a flood, etc etc (and these commands/dictates are in direct contradict to this alleged "God" things rules.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/misinformation-and-facts-about-secularism-and-religion
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 01:39:40 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #449 on: March 24, 2014, 01:47:22 PM »
How can you POSSIBLY say that theists know god but not know that there is one for them to know?

As us real atheists said over and over, if there is no god, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO KNOW HIM! It is possible to be deluded into thinking one knows a god, but if there isn't really a god, then he cannot be known. There is nothing there to know.

So either you don't think there is a god, and understand that theists only think they know a god, or you know there is a god and think that theists know that god. There is no in-between. Not the way you are trying to state it.

If you wanted to say "If there is a god, theists know that god, and I, as an atheist, don't know that god", that's fine. But you are making it black and white and insisting that while you stand on the white side and are correct, the black side is also correct. And that makes no sense whatsoever.

Of course this is what we've been saying for what now seems like a whole frickin' year and I assume you'll still ignore everything I just said and come up with yet another completely nonsensical retort. Because that appears to be the only talent you have.

ParkingPlaces, you just haven't elevated your consciousness enough to know it's Energy.  You keep focusing on the consciousness when you should in fact focus on the Consciousness.  If only you had a teacher you would understand what you know, and cease focus on the Things that atheists don't know.

It's all about frequency and the Word.  Theists know god, atheists don't.  Paulie Tweechle, Signa Krashnamorf, Murhammon Jesus, Nanakticktock...these are all Teachers of Theists and theists.  The all consciousness knows this, and you can Know it too.  You just need to read more Tweechle diaries and the teaching of Nanakticktock.  If only your humaneness could see the all consciousness, then you'd understand what the words of Signa Krashnamorf and Herve Villechaize in their Theist teachings to the theists.  You atheists just don't understand.

The dude has to speak in a frequency that resonates with me or I hear nothing.  ;D

Not only don't I fall for sh*t, I also don't step in it. Which dooms his chances with me.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #450 on: March 24, 2014, 01:47:31 PM »
How can you POSSIBLY say that theists know god but not know that there is one for them to know?
They say it in their books.

Quote
As us real atheists said over and over, if there is no god, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO KNOW HIM!

There is no schooling for this. It is a belief. There is not atheist teacher there is no logic there is no leadership.  You just saying so is nonsense. Theists say God is the all conscious that has breathed life into matter, figuratively speaking of course. Since you do not get to redefine and address what theists are saying you impose meaning to narrow mindly address your own version of what you are thinking. And you keep ignoring the theists while you force others to adopt your words through a system of not knowing and cherry picking that with the hope you get to find something that can stand up to your level of scrutiny. Theists are clear humans have the capability of knowing God and they must adopt that method. It really is that simple.   Now you have to ask yourself why not live a pure ethical moral life of the observer. And this is what you do not want to do. You do not want to live your life according to those self observed truths that lead to purity.

Quote
It is possible to be deluded into thinking one knows a god, but if there isn't really a god, then he cannot be known. There is nothing there to know.
Just live the pure ethical moral life. You do not have to sin you just have to be observant of your self and the mind. God is in the highest conscious awareness that you have the capability of knowing.

Quote
So either you don't think there is a god, and understand that theists only think they know a god, or you know there is a god and think that theists know that god. There is no in-between. Not the way you are trying to state it.
I am observing what is written by both. I am not passing judgement - you know what you know and they know what they know I am being impartial and reporting what each says.

Quote
If you wanted to say "If there is a god, theists know that god, and I, as an atheist, don't know that god", that's fine. But you are making it black and white and insisting that while you stand on the white side and are correct, the black side is also correct. And that makes no sense whatsoever.
I am saying in that observation I am an atheist. I do not stand on any white ground. I could be on grey if the two are connected by a shading from black to white.

Quote
Of course this is what we've been saying for what now seems like a whole frickin' year and I assume you'll still ignore everything I just said and come up with yet another completely nonsensical retort. Because that appears to be the only talent you have.
I have consistently explained it. But to no avail. I am not going to be bothered any more. You will see the light in time when you are fed up bashing each other. Really it is about Christians bashing Christians on how stupid the other is . Cary on - although it does not look intelligent to the rest of the world, to you it makes perfect sense. Your word game carry on keep trying to tell them you have no belief. I believe you but would they. When will you see a way out of your battle - when wisdom dawns.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #451 on: March 24, 2014, 01:52:23 PM »
You just saying so is nonsense.
Which he follows with:

Quote
Theists say God is the all conscious that has breathed life into matter, figuratively speaking of course. Since you do not get to redefine and address what theists are saying you impose meaning to narrow mindly address your own version of what you are thinking. And you keep ignoring the theists while you force others to adopt your words through a system of not knowing and cherry picking that with the hope you get to find something that can stand up to your level of scrutiny. Theists are clear humans have the capability of knowing God and they must adopt that method. It really is that simple.   Now you have to ask yourself why not live a pure ethical moral life of the observer. And this is what you do not want to do. You do not want to live your life according to those self observed truths that lead to purity.

That loud noise you just heard was my irony meter exploding with such violence that it birthed several new universes.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #452 on: March 24, 2014, 02:22:53 PM »
First, atheism is not a belief. It is not a belief "system".
Who taught this?

« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 02:26:08 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #453 on: March 24, 2014, 02:45:16 PM »
Theists have been saying this since man has recorded God we just did not have a world wide web to be as interconnected as we are today.

Whoop-de-fucking-do !  Yeah people say lots of things, why do YOU keep repeating this crap about what theists say.  YOU are just picking out what YOU like and calling those people theists.

Read this sentence very carefully, stop fucking repeating yourself, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND IT IS MEANINGLESS!

Read this sentence very carefully, just because I don’t submit and agree to what you are saying, DOES NOT MEAN I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOU!

Read this sentence very carefully, what you are saying is false thinking, I DO NOT SUBMIT OR AGREE TO FALSE THINKING!

YOU have yet to prove anything except that you are very adept at writing meaningless mumbo jumbo. Sod off.


Again however, you are the one with claims about knowing "God". 
I am not claiming anything. It is in the books of theists or in the recorded works that others have written about theists. The claim is made by theists who know God.

You’re not claiming anything?  Almost EVERYTHING you write is a FUCKING claim.    Some claims I can live with like there are books about theists claiming to know “God”.  Most of your claims are about you asserting your way, giving an ultimatum.  Sod off.

They have not imagined it or created out of thin air as atheists claim they have.

^^^^^^  See, there is a claim.  Are you capable of comprehending that you just claimed that “They have not imagined it or created out of thin air”?

You see, the position of atheism doesn’t have to claim anything, in fact it specifically doesn’t claim anything.  I don’t have to claim that “Theists imagined God”, all I have to do is ask for sufficient evidence that they knew “God”.  None exists?!??!!  Well that is strange, well how about some sufficient evidence that “God” exists?  WHAT IS THAT, NO EVIDENCE?!?!?!  Oh gee, isn’t that a shame, all your wasted effort.

Hey I was pulling for you.  I wouldn’t be asking for evidence if I wasn’t interested in actually knowing that “God” exists.  There is no need for you to lie though and pretend you have evidence, if you had any, you would have shared by now.  Sod off.

They say so in their books today.

Yeah, like I said.  People say lots of things.  Without evidence, something untrue is meaningless.  Sod off.

Theists say one should know the difference between a person imagining God to be because his thoughts words and deeds would betray him "by their actions and words we will know them". A claimant is easily removed because he has a lower thinking and it has lust greed ego in it.

That is a very poor method for knowing the difference between imagining you know “God’ and actually knowing “God”.  In fact, that might be the most gullible and inaccurate method possible.

You want to know a good method?  ASK FOR SOME FUCKING EVIDENCE!  Sod off.


I am asking for evidence that there is a "God" and that there is a connection between "God" and consciousness.
Everyone is asking this question -- but theists answer you are created in that image and likeness.

And again, people say lots of things.  Sod off.

There is nothing they have that you don't have that is different than them.

So you agree that there is no evidence. Sod off.


It is the direction you keep choosing that lowers your conscious awareness. That direction is one of ignoring the higher conscious awareness in you to follow sinning with the mind and its desires - Pinocchio story you need to listen to your conscious.

Ah there it is!  There is that deep seeded hatred in you Jesuis.  You think I have a lower conscious awareness, that I am ignoring the higher conscious awareness so I can sin with the mind and its desires.   It’s all about me wanting to sin, is that right.

OH LORDY, I’M SO SORRY, I WAS JUST NOT BELIEVEN SO I COULD SIN.  This works in real life too, I can walk into a bank and just ignore that anyone is there and just take all the money and walk right out, no cops or anyone tries to stop me.

Moron.  You have no clue how small minded you are.  Sod off.

Yes indeed. Every individual letter has its own personal character - The electricity does not differ in its supply. Every tree, every animal every form of life is unique. But at its core there is consciousness to exist and that is sustained for a predetermined time. Each life has its own purpose. That is the God spark that supplies that energy for consciousness to experience that what is available in that life form. Theists say the human being has the capability to know that connection life has with the all conscious.

Uh huh.  So why not lay out all the steps to test your idea instead of just babbling on about meaningless nothings?

Don’t be mistaken in thinking I don’t understand you, I understand you perfectly, the problem is, like I said, everything you say is babble about meaningless nothings.

You see, I can show that pressing the G key causes the letter g to appear.  What can you show?  Babble about meaningless nothings?  Sod off.

Any hypothesis regarding what happens when we press the G key can be verified or falsified.
We are aware of our every thought word or deed and should be aware by verifying if we are taking a direction to a higher place or to a lower place observed by our eternal consciousness or relative to our humanity.

I have already verified that I am taking a direction to a higher place as been observed by my eternal consciousness relative to my humanity.  Sod off.

The same is true of consciousness.  For instance, here is an article from the University of Virginia about how we might test for consciousness of a potentially sentient computer program. 
This is not about consciousness. It is about programs.

Who made you judge of what consciousness is or is not?  You do not seem qualified at all.  Sod off.

We are testing for consciousness in order to determine when it is present and when it is lost in humans.  http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-10/are-you-aware-science-getting-closer-measurable-assessment-consciousness
So long as life is in form there is consciousness in it having some sort of experience.

Yet again another claim with no evidence.  Sod off.

The same is not true however regarding the existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and tooth fairy.
These are the creations of the mind.They are not real or conscious. Only that which is all conscious creates consciousness.

Please show me how “only that which is all conscious creates consciousness” is not a creation of the mind.  Show me how consciousness is created.  Show me this all consciousness. 

Presents exist right?  Easter eggs exist right?  Consciousness exists right?

Only that which is Santa Claus can create Presents, therefore Santa Claus exists!

Only that which is the Easter Bunny can create Easter eggs, therefore the Easter Bunny exists!

Only that which is all conscious can create consciousness, therefore “God” exists!

There!  You said it.  Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are creations of the mind, just like that which is all conscious.  Sod off.

Can you provide more evidence for the existence of "God" than what can be provided for the existence of Santa Claus?
Theists have much proof for the existence of God -- God is everywhere and all conscious. Life is a part of the All Conscious.

You keep repeating that over and over, yet you don’t provide any evidence.  Sod off.

Can you provide more evidence for the connection between "God" and consciousness than what can be provided for the connection between Santa Claus and the north pole?
Santa is a creation of the mind. Everything the mind creates is imaginary and illusive. Theists say God is the reality of everything external and internal. The mind is standing between the reality or realms and the consciousness and it must be stilled for one to experience that truth.

I’ll take your response as a no, you cannot provide more evidence than that which is imaginary therefore your connection between “God” and consciousness is imaginary. Someone simply saying that something is real is meaningless without evidence.  Sod off.

You have indicated that "Theists know God and that atheists don't", which is merely your belief so you believe that "Theists know God".  You believe that "God" exists.
Why do you not require evidence that "Theists" know "God" or that "God" exists?
I am bringing the idea to the gnostic atheists so that we can do the critical thinking through an unbiased and scientific query.

I myself am an agnostic atheist, and you can’t provide even the slightest of evidence for someone who doesn’t know, how do you ever hope to reach someone who claims to be gnostic.

You have failed miserably at critical thinking through an unbiased and scientific query. Sod off.

The title of that thread was to open the debate.

It was, until you started asserting your way or the highway ultimatums.  Sod off.

From that tittle I was able to realize that we needed to identify this element of the theists "woo" words Consciousness.

You were able to assert your 'way or the highway' ultimatums. Sod off.

Since this is their trump card and no atheists have understood it maybe they have been making false claims

You are confusing understanding with acceptance.  Just because we don’t accept your claims as truth doesn’t mean we don’t understand them.  Sod off.

-- what they are saying that there is no God could be a false claim

You’re actually not wrong here.  Saying there is no god could be a false claim.  I missed where anyone has actually claimed that there is no god.  I myself have made no such claim. 

I’m still waiting for you to provide any evidence whatsoever that a god exists.  Don’t give me more crap about consciousness or life or the universe is evidence for “God”, as none of that proves that “God” exists, it only proves that consciousness, life or the universe exists.   In what way is “God” not imaginary?  Because someone said “God” is real?  Is that all you got?

Not enough, because like I said, people say lots of things.  People have said dragons, unicorns and the Loch Ness Monster are real, should I believe they exist as well?  Sod off.

ie that somehow it is scientific wisdom that there is no god.

Scientific wisdom expects evidence for things that exist.  If your god was real, science would prove it, instead what we actually see is complete silence from science about “God”, just like there is complete silence about unicorns, banshees, dragons, leprechauns and fairies.  We have probably have over 8 thousand years of humans believing in gods and what do we have to show for it?  Jack shit, and Jack skipped town. 

The scientific method starts commonly being used probably 500 or 600 years ago and we put a FUCKING man on the moon, YOU are interacting with people from all over the world on the FUCKING internet.  Sod off.

Atheists from what I am gathering is that they are as closed minded and as bigoted as the Romans were when they were spreading Christianity across Europe

YOU came here FUCKER, YOU are the Romans coming here to spread YOUR religion.  We ask you for evidence and somehow we are close minded and bigoted. 

Again, YOU have put forth another ultimatum. Sod off.

- while ignoring everyone else or any truths being told to them. They don't want to know the truth but to dictate what the truth is - thus stifling humanity, stifling the compassion of being able to love thy enemy as they self, it is the love aspect that is God and conscious, they lack the awareness of respect for the believers as they pursue some selfish agenda on dehumanizing mankind.

You just described yourself.  YOU are ignoring the points being made.  YOU are dictating what the truth is.  YOUR way stifles humanity.  YOUR way stifles the compassion of being able to love thy enemy as thy self.  YOU lack the awareness of respect for everyone no matter what they believe or don't believe.  YOU pursue a selfish agenda.  YOU seek to dehumanize human kind.

Sod off.

Without some moral authority some higher ethical standard they have no real good human agenda. If you listen to any gnostic atheists you never hear of the higher humane authority that they are seeking. All you hear is their selfishness which comes from mind and desire and how unconnected they are from the path of the theists.

The moral authority you speak of is a dictatorship, it is a selfish agenda for one person to rule others.  YOU seek to dictate the truth with selfishness that comes from YOUR mind and desires.

Sod off.


I'm done with your brand of incompetence jesuis.

OK But no one has asked you "believe" -- only to be "aware" of what you think say and do. Once that is cleared up you can feel free you run around with your head in the sky saying I am not believer. But you are accountable for your own thoughts words and deeds. It is as simple as that. You reap what you sow.

Blah blah blah blah blah.   You set the ultimatum and it doesn't matter what you call it to try and make it sound nice.

"Oh I'm not telling you what to believe, I'm just telling you to be aware ...."

Take your ultimatums and shove them up your ass.  Your brand is nothing more than a dictatorship which subjugates with ignorance and fear. Sod off.


EDIT:  I see Jesuis is now being moderated.  Didn't realize that until after I posted.

I got one last thing to say to you Jesuis.

EVIDENCE!  Do you have any?!?!  'Theists say' aint no evidence I've ever heard of.  They speak English in 'theists say'? ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER, do you speak it? Say 'theists say' again. Say 'theists say' again. I dare you. I doubledare you motherfucker, say 'theists say' one more damn time!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 04:17:06 PM by SevenPatch »
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline median

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #454 on: March 24, 2014, 03:28:29 PM »
There is no schooling for this. It is a belief. There is not atheist teacher there is no logic there is no leadership.  You just saying so is nonsense. Theists say God is the all conscious that has breathed life into matter, figuratively speaking of course. Since you do not get to redefine and address what theists are saying you impose meaning to narrow mindly address your own version of what you are thinking. And you keep ignoring the theists while you force others to adopt your words through a system of not knowing and cherry picking that with the hope you get to find something that can stand up to your level of scrutiny. Theists are clear humans have the capability of knowing God and they must adopt that method. It really is that simple.   Now you have to ask yourself why not live a pure ethical moral life of the observer. And this is what you do not want to do. You do not want to live your life according to those self observed truths that lead to purity.

I don't give a flying fuck what you "believe". I care about what can actually be demonstrated to be true. And so far you haven't demonstrated any sound evidence for a god thing. Your saying so, doesn't make it so. Your "theists" merely make lots of claims filled with hot-air. You haven't even once attempted to demonstrate your claims to this alleged "God" thing. You just keep SAYING IT over and over, as if somehow the next time you say it we will buy your bullshit. Well sorry, we don't. You need actual extraordinary evidence - not just more claims or hear-say.

Just live the pure ethical moral life. You do not have to sin you just have to be observant of your self and the mind. God is in the highest conscious awareness that you have the capability of knowing.

The concept of "sin" requires there to be some "God" thing, but you haven't even come close to showing that. So you are irrational once again - begging the question and assuming the very thing you need to prove. Sorry, you don't win by default dude - regardless of how badly you want to.

I am observing what is written by both. I am not passing judgement - you know what you know and they know what they know I am being impartial and reporting what each says.

Sorry, I didn't sign up for "The Jesuis News Hour". I'd like to know what good (valid and sound) reasons you have for thinking this "God" thing exists or is real. First off, you will need to define this thing you believe in (in a logically coherent way) and then demonstrate it's existence. If you can't do that, then just admit that you can't do it. Admit that you have no sound evidence for this thing you believe in.

I am saying in that observation I am an atheist. I do not stand on any white ground. I could be on grey if the two are connected by a shading from black to white.

This statement makes no sense. Theism is the belief in a god and atheism is the LACK OF THAT BELIEF. Either you have a belief in a god, at which case you are a theist, or you do not, at which case you are an atheist.

I have consistently explained it. But to no avail. I am not going to be bothered any more. You will see the light in time when you are fed up bashing each other. Really it is about Christians bashing Christians on how stupid the other is . Cary on - although it does not look intelligent to the rest of the world, to you it makes perfect sense. Your word game carry on keep trying to tell them you have no belief. I believe you but would they. When will you see a way out of your battle - when wisdom dawns.

You continually appeal to logical fallacies (in this case the fallacy called Complex Question) to support your argument. You are assuming the very thing you need to prove. Such assertions as: 1) you have some "wisdom" that non-believers in your superstition do not, 2) that your "God" thing is real, or 3) that we should just take your word for it that these mystical, magical, supernatural, spiritual things are real are nothing more than empty claims with no backing. And, you provide absolutely ZERO evidence for them. It's just your perpetual assertion after assertion: "b/c I say so" after "b/c I say so". You are practicing intellectual hypocrisy b/c you, yourself, wouldn't accept this kind of "b/c I say so" if I came to your door and tried this same reasoning with a magic potion to cure all ailments (just hand over your credit card - 3 easy payment of $99.95).

Homie don't play that...
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 03:39:42 PM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #455 on: March 24, 2014, 08:13:26 PM »
Please show me how “only that which is all conscious creates consciousness” is not a creation of the mind.  Show me how consciousness is created.  Show me this all consciousness. 
Life is conscious or it is dead.

Quote
Presents exist right?  Easter eggs exist right?  Consciousness exists right?

Only that which is Santa Claus can create Presents, therefore Santa Claus exists!

Only that which is the Easter Bunny can create Easter eggs, therefore the Easter Bunny exists!

Only that which is all conscious can create consciousness, therefore “God” exists!

There!  You said it.  Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are creations of the mind, just like that which is all conscious.  Sod off.

I know about the Easter bunny - I know who created it.  Same as with the Easter egg the Santa Claus and the Green Goblin. That is not what is being asked here.
Consciousness is not in the same category. According to the theists "Life is Conscious" and every human being knows that of life. When there is no life there is no consciousness. 

[Moderated]

Theists are saying God is the all conscious and life is a part of it.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 08:26:17 PM by Graybeard »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #456 on: March 24, 2014, 10:10:34 PM »
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Praise fucking Jesus.
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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #457 on: March 24, 2014, 10:18:02 PM »
I am going to ask you some blunt questions that should have been asked  weeks ago. Due to your skill of not talking about anything useful, interesting, or important, they have been missed.

1) Do you believe what is written in the New Testament? - Have not read it.

2) Do you have any suspicions about any of the books in the New Testament being faked? Never read them either so cannot judge.

3) Did life evolve? Or, was it created, in form? No idea

4) Did life need help from God to evolve? No Idea

5) How old is the Earth? No Idea

6) How long ago did life start to evolve? No idea

7) Do you believe that there are other intelligent life forms on other planets? No idea

8 ) Do you believe in demonic possession? Never seen any except in movies. Constantine and another that claimed it was about a real incident.

9) Do you believe what is written in the Old Testament? Have not read it either. I am a born atheist- looking for the truth - that which cannot change 

10) Do you believe that Christians are on a path that will see them into the afterlife? What is a Christian - If you love me follow my commandment. If you don't piss off.

11) Do you believe in an afterlife? No idea. Have read a lot of NDE OBE and Regressive hypnosis stuff and all religions say good deeds take you higher and bad deeds take you lower, that consciousness is energy and energy can only change form.

11a) What is the point of the afterlife? Theists say - The present human life is to know God the after life is a product of our desires.

12) Do you believe in karma? If so, explain it. Second law of motion in physics - An eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth - to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

13) Do you believe in reincarnation? If so, explain what type. I see Life is a journey of births and deaths - Coded in our DNA is all our previous lives and our conscious awareness has observed it and recorded it.

14) Do you believe that the Indian saints can transfer guruship, by passing it from their eyes? No idea. Did not understand that article you posted. Do yu have any idea what they are talking about?

That should do us a while.
Sorry I do not do belief very well.

You don't do knowledge very well.

Quote
2) Do you have any suspicions about any of the books in the New Testament being faked? Never read them either so cannot judge.

You also have not read anything else.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #458 on: March 24, 2014, 11:27:39 PM »

You also have not read anything else.
This is a ching hai video of her talking to her disciples I found online.
Where does she say/indicate she does not know God. Also what do you understand from the followers about what they experience.
Are they all lying to each other.
youtube.com/watch?v=KtCURZy0sfs
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #459 on: March 25, 2014, 08:04:16 AM »
There are only two options as to what could have been "going on back then".  The teachers were correct, or the teachers were incorrect, when they claimed knowledge of god.   
Why is there only two options.....

You tell me.  Seriously.  Tell me what the third option is between "were correct when they claimed to know god" and "they were incorrect when they claimed to know god"

And how - at the time - could you have told the difference?
No Idea. I live in the present moment. I have no skills set to jump in time to know anything for sure about the past or the future.

I would PRESUME you would use the same skill set as you would use today.  Eating sugar, or some such.  Sadly, you've never adequately explained how that works for a declaration of "god knowledge".  You are also at pains to tell us you have no knowledge of gods - which means you have never tasted their sugar.

If you have never tasted their sugar, how do you know their sugar exists?

Oh.  Final point.

I can say I do not know -- and have said it all the time. "I am an Atheist which means "I do not know". The question is whether you can say you do not know like I can.

Atheist means "I do not believe" - from Theism.  AGNOSTIC means "I do not know" - from gnosis, "to know".  Maybe if you used the correct word, instead of your own made up definitions, we might find common ground.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #460 on: March 25, 2014, 12:46:03 PM »
students duty to remain in the class and not to go blabbering their mouths. to the unschooled infertile ground it is 90% garbage.

No, I mean, when Kirpal Singh rewrote his history to claim he was descended from another Guru, he was talking garbage. You miss just about any point made to you, don't you?

You claim that you can tell when some guru is lying, by his words, but Paul Twit got right past you, and so does Kirpal Cola.
The problem here is how we make up what we think happens depending on who we talk to. That why if he is dead we do not know about these things being claimed. While a person is alive we can talk to them and ask them. When they are dead anyone can write what they believe and that could be misleading. We only need to speak to the real living theists.

However we can say what theists are saying they know. ie God.

Mastership and guruship or, whatever that is, we do not know, we have to ask them if they know, and find out how they know, and see if what they say is true by trying to falsify it.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 01:48:29 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #461 on: March 25, 2014, 01:28:23 PM »
There are only two options as to what could have been "going on back then".  The teachers were correct, or the teachers were incorrect, when they claimed knowledge of god.   
Why is there only two options.....

You tell me.  Seriously.  Tell me what the third option is between "were correct when they claimed to know god" and "they were incorrect when they claimed to know god"
There are too many options when we are making stuff up. You then have to use the falsifiable method to each scenario we mentally create. Chance are all of the options which are more than two will prove worthless, because it is all made up.  So what is the first thing we must know? I am saying the living theists is the person who knows and ask what is it that he / she teaches and whether it is falsifiable. A living theist is the only one that can prove to us who or what God is and how to know. If they cannot they are not the theist.


And how - at the time - could you have told the difference?
No Idea. I live in the present moment. I have no skills set to jump in time to know anything for sure about the past or the future.

I would PRESUME you would use the same skill set as you would use today.  Eating sugar, or some such.  Sadly, you've never adequately explained how that works for a declaration of "god knowledge".  You are also at pains to tell us you have no knowledge of gods - which means you have never tasted their sugar.

If you have never tasted their sugar, how do you know their sugar exists?
I am reporting exactly what I am reading - I am providing the books and web pages of what they are actually saying. I claim nothing more than that what each says. I do not claim that Richard Dawkins says he is an atheist. I know he says that. It is in his book and on his web pages and in his videos. I can provide all these for you. I make no "claim to know" but "I know"  what he actually says.  Does everyone actually understand this?  Is my English so hard to understand -- I saw an expert on English and asked him if what I am saying is wrong and although he first had difficulty in understanding it when he analysed what I said he said it is grammatically correct. Why is my posts being moderated???  Isn't this weird?? I am not teaching or preaching as others claim. I am not breaking any laws.


Oh.  Final point.

I can say I do not know -- and have said it all the time. "I am an Atheist which means "I do not know". The question is whether you can say you do not know like I can.

Atheist means "I do not believe" - from Theism.  AGNOSTIC means "I do not know" - from gnosis, "to know".  Maybe if you used the correct word, instead of your own made up definitions, we might find common ground.
I first said atheist believe that there is no God and everyone got all upset with me -- what is it? - why don't you all have a group think select a leader and let him make it known to all his followers what atheists really are and believe? I used to think atheist did not "believe" that there is a God" -- but because I seem to be in a word game with belief and no belief as some claim -- I had to pin it down -- 'cause that is the root cause of why I am focusing who knows and does not.

How can I draw you a picture.

Take a magnet - stand it up - North at the top South at the bottom or vice versa. Colour the top white and colour the bottom black. Shade the rest of the magnet from black to white. Label the south Atheists for those who know there is no God and Label the top Theist Those who know there is a God. Then draw in the magnetic fields to represent the forces of belief showing the changing mental states of the individuals going from south to north as agnostic theists and from north to south as agnostic atheist. If you or Seven can draw it up you will help others understand what I am saying.  Thanks.
 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 01:50:33 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #462 on: March 25, 2014, 08:35:00 PM »
According to the theists "Life is Conscious" and every human being knows that of life. When there is no life there is no consciousness.
[...]
Theists are saying God is the all conscious and life is a part of it.
So there you are trying to use words again to deceive us in the way you have deceived yourself. Consciousness depends on life but it is not "life". Being conscious is an attribute of life. It is not general to all life forms (e.g. plants). Even if it were, being conscious would still be no more than an attribute.

Perhaps I can make this clear by saying "reproduction is an attribute of life." Reproduction is associated with life more strongly than being conscious is - plants (alive) reproduce.

So, please, do not try to suggest that consciousness and life are the same thing.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 08:40:49 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #463 on: March 25, 2014, 10:50:36 PM »
If he had read the Bible, he would know that Jesus was not trying to say that plants were conscious.

Also, Jesus did not believe in karma, or reincarnation, but the current crop of Indian Sant Mat cultists do believe in it. Clearly one of these groups has not met God.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.