Author Topic: What is consciousness? Theists say ...  (Read 5579 times)

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #406 on: March 23, 2014, 01:18:10 AM »
Hey, guys, I'm surfing the Eck stream now. It's music so beautiful it surpasses Mozart, Brahms, and all the night crickets.

Dum dee dum dee dum.... Oh, here's a real foot tapper.

I hope you realize how awesome I am, just for hearing this music. Of course, I won't actually bring any of it, back to prove it. Mainly I'm interested in you praising me.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #407 on: March 23, 2014, 01:19:29 AM »
I observed the total shit of the believer.

What is it about you and Skeptic, that you can't understand what an atheist is, even though you claim to be an expert on the subject?
I have no idea about Skeptic - but as a human being I have seen many things humane and inhumane. I also understand that theists are teaching their disciples to live a more humane life, a more consciously aware life, whereby atheists are simply dropouts of religion in the pursuit of no moral authority even of themselves.

If society is to advance or evolve it is for the more humane interaction and theists have already said what mankind has to do. Thou shall not kill, not steal, not covet, not lie etc - I see nothing humane in your approach - if atheism is defined by you or others as devoid of the authority of the consciously aware or the awareness of someone with higher moral lives to emulate through Gandhi neurons then where are you heading with this.  Theists have already cornered that path of the human psyche through the conscious awareness agenda through leadership by example through the authority of God.

If one wanted to push more porn, more slavery, more abuse, more dictatorship, more alcohol, more sexualised world that lowers and lowers the human consciousness where there is less and less equality then it can only be done by an inhumane agenda where there is little awareness and little consciousness. But if you wanted to promote the more consciously awareness as taught by the theists the highest most humane path will still come from the one who knows God.

Where are you really going with this agenda of yours?
What authority is aware of the inhumanity and what authority can stop the inhumanity from pursuing more inhumanity if not the self aware?
I think once you have some authority more and more people would join up. But to claim it is your authority and not Gods that could be dictatorship.

What would be the purpose of life if not the humane agenda?
What would be the ambition of the youths if all knowledge could be downloaded?
What would be the driving force for if not the humane consciously aware people?

All I see for your version of atheism is more and more sex slavery, more and more porn, drugs and alcohol addicts where humans are caught into these states of mind by the promotion of try it you might like it thus reducing or promoting the lack of conscious awareness. Thus creating more and more inhumane acts. Its all a selfish agenda not so?

It would take a lot of stupidity on my part to accept what you are trying to promote by way of humanism if you take the conscious awareness of theists out of the equation.

I'm your superior, now. I have been to the Akashic records, and have seen aliens in other galaxies.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #408 on: March 23, 2014, 01:22:03 AM »
BTW, Jesuis, you are making some good progress. I think with a few more meditations, maybe 5 hours a day, and some adoration of me, you may be able to make it to the lower levels of Karmic consciousness. It's not a promise, though. Only the lower levels.

I have also just looked at the Akashic records to see if you become anything. I won't let on what I have seen, because it would destroy your purpose in life.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #409 on: March 23, 2014, 01:48:23 AM »
I observed the total shit of the believer.

What is it about you and Skeptic, that you can't understand what an atheist is, even though you claim to be an expert on the subject?
I have no idea about Skeptic - but as a human being I have seen many things humane and inhumane. I also understand that theists are teaching their disciples to live a more humane life, a more consciously aware life, whereby atheists are simply dropouts of religion in the pursuit of no moral authority even of themselves.

If society is to advance or evolve it is for the more humane interaction and theists have already said what mankind has to do. Thou shall not kill, not steal, not covet, not lie etc - I see nothing humane in your approach - if atheism is defined by you or others as devoid of the authority of the consciously aware or the awareness of someone with higher moral lives to emulate through Gandhi neurons then where are you heading with this.  Theists have already cornered that path of the human psyche through the conscious awareness agenda through leadership by example through the authority of God.

If one wanted to push more porn, more slavery, more abuse, more dictatorship, more alcohol, more sexualised world that lowers and lowers the human consciousness where there is less and less equality then it can only be done by an inhumane agenda where there is little awareness and little consciousness. But if you wanted to promote the more consciously awareness as taught by the theists the highest most humane path will still come from the one who knows God.

Where are you really going with this agenda of yours?
What authority is aware of the inhumanity and what authority can stop the inhumanity from pursuing more inhumanity if not the self aware?
I think once you have some authority more and more people would join up. But to claim it is your authority and not Gods that could be dictatorship.

What would be the purpose of life if not the humane agenda?
What would be the ambition of the youths if all knowledge could be downloaded?
What would be the driving force for if not the humane consciously aware people?

All I see for your version of atheism is more and more sex slavery, more and more porn, drugs and alcohol addicts where humans are caught into these states of mind by the promotion of try it you might like it thus reducing or promoting the lack of conscious awareness. Thus creating more and more inhumane acts. Its all a selfish agenda not so?

It would take a lot of stupidity on my part to accept what you are trying to promote by way of humanism if you take the conscious awareness of theists out of the equation.

You're not going to bill us for this crap, are you?

You mean that since we're atheists, we're supposed to be slaves to sex, drugs, alcohol and tobacco? Hmmm, wouldn't I sort of want to mess with that stuff first? Are you saying its automatic? I don't have a single Playboy, a single aspirin, let alone meth or coke , a single beer or a single cigarette in my house. Am I doing this atheism stuff all wrong?

Are we supposed to automatically follow your contorted expectations of us just so you can be right? Is that the deal. We act as you think atheists act, you get to be the superior being (human version) who would never do such things because your teachers were all enlightened pricks?

Sorry to disappoint you, but there are multiple ways to become a decent human being. What you don't realize is how selfish you have to be to think that you have all the answers, or at least know the source for all the answers. That makes you far worse than a sexual deviant, a drug addict, an alcoholic. It makes you a leech. A leech sucking on the blood of false enlightenment. And being way too satisfied with the flavor.

That'll be $5. PM me and I'll tell you where to send it.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #410 on: March 23, 2014, 02:25:36 AM »
Hey guys, I just went to the Akashic records; the vault of everything that can be known in the universe, and I now know the cure for HIV, malaria, Parkinsons, Alzheimer's, cancer, depression, diabetes, heart disease and tooth decay.
Have you really? I am intrigued. What is the Akashic records?

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But I'm not going to tell you any of it, because I can't be bothered.

Really - or you are just making stuff up. Perhaps one of those disciples that have heard of a thing called sugar and goes blabbering about it when he knows nothing at all.

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It would be a distraction to you, and you are generally better off dying from these diseases, because it will force you to come to terms with the vibrancy of life, if you all die slow, agonizing deaths.
Really? -- What else could you do if ... it?

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Tapping into the Eck music stream will allow you to heal all these diseases, anyway. So, I'm just motivating you. (*audience laughs sycophantically*)
So am I(laughing sycophantically). What is the eck stream? where is it? What did you do to tap into? I doubt you know but do tell?

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I'm not even interested in telling you one of the cures, to substantiate any of my claims.
Because maybe it is pointless?  One has to reap what one sows.

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I'd far rather you just adored me for being able to do all these awesome things.
That's it. You want us to adore you. Selfish git.
The least you could do is tell us what is going to cause us less suffering, tell us not to lie , not to steal, not to fornicate, not to covet, stuff like that. I am sure there is no reaction to you for us how to avoid suffering. At least if you understood the simple equation of Mandelbrot you would know these little thoughts binds us for an eternity. So imo the least you can do is tell us how to get to where you got. And you can inspire us to follow your example. Too hard for you or you like wallowing in your word you heard / read and know nothing about it. You know what they say about a little knowledge.

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Even though I myself, am now surfing the Eck stream on a daily basis, I could cure my own terminal disease, but choose not to, because I want to show you how humble I am. (*audience sighs with sheer inspiration*)
Leadership by example .. not interfering -- good. So how do we do what you do?

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The message I want to leave you with, is that I am totally awesome. (*audience claps*)
Don't be silly -- the only cure for these things is for you to tell us how we are becoming more and more entrapped by our own actions and its reactions - the least you could do is have a positive effect on the mind and on the consciousness of others - if to tell us how to become more aware like you are and how we can come to know the things you know would be a good start.

Its - Nothing to do with totally awesome - but more to do with -- you have no clue on what to do or say. There are many fakes like you blabber mouths we can spot you in a jiffy. You have no idea on how and have nothing to teach because for you there is nothing practical but you have heard a word. You are a con artist tutored by Paul Twitchell descendents who have nothing.

So do the one good and descent thing -- tell us exactly what The "akash"ic records are and what it is made of and how you managed to surf the eck stream to it.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #411 on: March 23, 2014, 02:27:03 AM »
That'll be $5. PM me and I'll tell you where to send it.

I don't think he quite understands that anyone who has been to the Akashic records is his superior.

Since he has not experienced anything that he says the "theists" perceive, he is still at that spiritual level, where he is play-acting, and hoping that it will get him somewhere. It's a natural level of the lower initiate. It cannot be any other way.

I am someone who knows God, and yet he seems to ignore me, now. It's a psychological reaction, which illustrates that he is only in this game for his own advancement. If he really cared about selflessness, he wouldn't worry that I am now his superior. It's all his ego.

The Buddhist philosophy recognizes a state, where the student has been attracted to the religion, for the wrong reasons. However, it eventually resolves as the student gains a real understanding of the universe. I predict that he will be in that state within a few reincarnations. Perhaps several hundred. The Akashic records can be deliberately vague about a person's destiny. He may have to consult his astrologer.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #412 on: March 23, 2014, 02:41:46 AM »
You're not going to bill us for this crap, are you?
Nope

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You mean that since we're atheists, we're supposed to be slaves to sex, drugs, alcohol and tobacco? Hmmm, wouldn't I sort of want to mess with that stuff first? Are you saying its automatic? I don't have a single Playboy, a single aspirin, let alone meth or coke , a single beer or a single cigarette in my house. Am I doing this atheism stuff all wrong?
Nope - It is about who is giving humanity the moral ethical leadership. I do not see any atheists jumping up for the position.

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Are we supposed to automatically follow your contorted expectations of us just so you can be right? Is that the deal. We act as you think atheists act, you get to be the superior being (human version) who would never do such things because your teachers were all enlightened pricks?
You dropped out from religion - was it for a more moral reason or a less. And if it was for the more moral isn't that because you are aware of the immorality in the religion. So where do you stop developing that conscious awareness that you claim to be using that religion prevents you from pursuing.

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Sorry to disappoint you, but there are multiple ways to become a decent human being.
Nope there is only one way to become a better human being and it is by being more and more consciously aware of something that is going to degrade or dehumanise life. Thou shall not lie, not steal, not covet, etc. is a theist making his followers aware where they a falling short.

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What you don't realize is how selfish you have to be to think that you have all the answers, or at least know the source for all the answers.
What?? - I do not have all the answers - but theists over the years have left a moral ethical path for their followers.

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That makes you far worse than a sexual deviant, a drug addict, an alcoholic. It makes you a leech. A leech sucking on the blood of false enlightenment. And being way too satisfied with the flavor.
That's just you getting personal. I am all for more and more conscious awareness. If you point out the leeching I do, it would help but using your powers of ESP and imagination is never going to help anyone. Does that power of self delusion come from atheism?

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That'll be $5. PM me and I'll tell you where to send it.
No thanks.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #413 on: March 23, 2014, 02:44:49 AM »
That'll be $5. PM me and I'll tell you where to send it.

I don't think he quite understands that anyone who has been to the Akashic records is his superior.

Since he has not experienced anything that he says the "theists" perceive, he is still at that spiritual level, where he is play-acting, and hoping that it will get him somewhere. It's a natural level of the lower initiate. It cannot be any other way.

I am someone who knows God, and yet he seems to ignore me, now. It's a psychological reaction, which illustrates that he is only in this game for his own advancement. If he really cared about selflessness, he wouldn't worry that I am now his superior. It's all his ego.
Leadership by example -- you failed ages ago.

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The Buddhist philosophy recognizes a state, where the student has been attracted to the religion, for the wrong reasons. However, it eventually resolves as the student gains a real understanding of the universe. I predict that he will be in that state within a few reincarnations. Perhaps several hundred. The Akashic records can be deliberately vague about a person's destiny. He may have to consult his astrologer.
Now who is full of woo?!
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #414 on: March 23, 2014, 02:47:11 AM »
BTW, Jesuis, you are making some good progress. I think with a few more meditations, maybe 5 hours a day, and some adoration of me, you may be able to make it to the lower levels of Karmic consciousness. It's not a promise, though. Only the lower levels.

I have also just looked at the Akashic records to see if you become anything. I won't let on what I have seen, because it would destroy your purpose in life.
If only you could make up your mind and send a single message it would make things much better. You seem not to have much control over yours. What exactly does mediation entail?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #415 on: March 23, 2014, 02:48:40 AM »
I'm your superior, now. I have been to the Akashic records, and have seen aliens in other galaxies.
I'll be in your part of the world soon. I am sure to see a few there.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #416 on: March 23, 2014, 02:52:12 AM »
I still think he's writing a book. He will most likely claim that he did all this for "research", to find out about atheists. However, he had to create an atheist that wasn't there, in order to have his profound arguments against him.
No book - this was genuine. If only I was much brighter more intelligent more articulate. Then I would be woo-ing you all.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #417 on: March 23, 2014, 02:54:15 AM »
Hey guys, I just went to the Akashic records; the vault of everything that can be known in the universe, and I now know the cure for HIV, malaria, Parkinsons, Alzheimer's, cancer, depression, diabetes, heart disease and tooth decay.
Have you really? I am intrigued. What is the Akashic records?

Evidently, Kirpal Singh should have consulted the Akashic records, before writing his bullshit about Jaimal.
http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/page11.html

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These fictionalized conversations in Jaimal's life by Kirpal, were written in his book as if they actually occurred! Therefore, Kirpal's book, Jaimal, A Great Saint, seems a remarkable embarrassment to Kirpal's legacy and possibly the most extraordinary guru propaganda book ever written. Could these phantasmagorical conversations Kirpal manufactured in his book also show a delusional core basis, for the notion in his own mind, that he was a godlike Saint having reached Sach Kand ?

Kirpal also tried to tie his lineage back to the last Sikh guru Govind and was proven wrong. Kirpal evidently could not read the Akashic records. Kirpal lists no source for conversations between Swami Ji and Jaimal, nor with Chachaji and Radhaji in his book. There is absolutely nothing verifying these conversations ever took place, or of these meetings in history. So how did Kirpal come up with these quotes involving these people in these conversations ? Why doesn't Kirpal show anything historical that Swami Ji ever knew Jaimal, or that someone ever saw Jaimal in Swami Ji's satsang ? With 10,000 people in Swami Ji's satsang, someone must have seen him. But, who ???? And, if any evidence existed, it would have shown up in the last 100 years. Kirpal cannot give reference, because none exist. Kirpal's Jaimal book seems an attempt to counteract Maheswari's devestating history books, which shortly preceded it. It is as if Kirpal is telling Maheswari to back off, that his disciples will believe any crap he tells them. Power politics.


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Really - or you are just making stuff up.

*cough*

When you have finished satirizing your own position, let me know.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #418 on: March 23, 2014, 11:16:12 AM »
What is it that you are lusting after here?

I still think he's writing a book. He will most likely claim that he did all this for "research", to find out about atheists. However, he had to create an atheist that wasn't there, in order to have his profound arguments against him.

Writing a book? Even if he is: it won't make sense. It'll be just like his Bible.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline wheels5894

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #419 on: March 23, 2014, 12:51:32 PM »

You're not going to bill us for this crap, are you?

You mean that since we're atheists, we're supposed to be slaves to sex, drugs, alcohol and tobacco? Hmmm, wouldn't I sort of want to mess with that stuff first? Are you saying its automatic? I don't have a single Playboy, a single aspirin, let alone meth or coke , a single beer or a single cigarette in my house. Am I doing this atheism stuff all wrong?

Are we supposed to automatically follow your contorted expectations of us just so you can be right? Is that the deal. We act as you think atheists act, you get to be the superior being (human version) who would never do such things because your teachers were all enlightened pricks?

Sorry to disappoint you, but there are multiple ways to become a decent human being. What you don't realize is how selfish you have to be to think that you have all the answers, or at least know the source for all the answers. That makes you far worse than a sexual deviant, a drug addict, an alcoholic. It makes you a leech. A leech sucking on the blood of false enlightenment. And being way too satisfied with the flavor.

That'll be $5. PM me and I'll tell you where to send it.

Are we really sunk so low as to bang on about atheists lacking morals? Does Jesuis really think morals are only locked into a religion? Judging by the way religions have handled moral matters over the centuries I don't think they have much to say about morals.

Well Jesuis, I am free of the control of gods and religions and I have to make up my own mind about what is right and wrong. I could decide a killing spree would be in order, or to go few or a few bank raids (fun in a wheelchair!) because I think some people and organizations are immoral and need to be taught a lesson. Yet I don't do any f these things. Rather I think that looking after people is more important - respecting them and helping where possible - is the right moral way.

So while I won't be on the porn, drugs etc. you mention, bar a beer and a glass of wine tonight, I do not consider your comments make any sense and neither do they reflect the world as I see it.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #420 on: March 23, 2014, 12:56:11 PM »
Does Jesuis also realize, and which has mentioned to him a billion times[1] that the most peaceful places on Earth are places that lack religion not have it in abundance.

-Nam
 1. literally...well...not literally
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #421 on: March 23, 2014, 01:56:55 PM »
No! Because if you see blackness you see a colour black.
You must have missed the lesson where black is defined as the absence of light. If there is an absence of light, you don’t see anything. Your retinal nerves do not react.

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Can you be aware of your thinking and can you be aware when your thinking stops.
You missed the lesson where the teacher told you that you cannot stop thinking.

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You are confusing  seeing and sight. Is this intentional?
The mechanism for seeing is not only with the eyes. Do you see black when you close your eyes? Can a blind person see something? So no I am not confusing sight with seeing.
Yes you are.

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Everyone has been in a very dark room and have been consciously trying to see something.
Very dark, or without light? You can make an effort to see, but this is simply a figurative idiom. If there is no light, the retinal nerves simply do not send signals to the brain. it's like trying to switch on a torch with a dead battery. The idea that you have control over what you see is ridiculous – think about it.

I still do not think that you understand the concept of abstract nouns.

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Richard Dawkins says there is no God. Every Theist who knows there is one will disagree.
How does a theist know there is a god? You are being your usual self and being careless with words and language.

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But who is his teacher, what is the morality practices who is the teacher?
What has that to do with anyone. These bogus peasants, how do we know that their teachers were not mad or charlatans?

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I am not talking about that. A dead person has a brain too. A brain is not consciousness.
A garage is not a car: it is there to contain a car.

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What is " higher conscious awareness"? How do you know they had it? How do you know they were not simply imagining things> Mentally ill but plausible?
If thine eye be single thy whole body shall be full of light.
What does that even mean. It is another one of those trite sentences that appear to mean something deep but fails to use words understandably. And why are you talking in 18th century English? It doesn’t make it any more comprehensible.

You mean that one-eyed men have glowing bodies?

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Can you tell us more about how we test for " higher conscious awareness"?
There are openings in the body that allows us to experience or be conscious of the world around us via the senses through some network via that the nervous system which culminates in the brain and its function.
Good. Dspite the poor English, you are saying that we get our information from our senses – we are agreed.

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Theists call this body consciousness.
Which “body” First you say there are openings in the body, then you say that this body is consciousness. You are confused.

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Higher consciousness is achieved when the senses are not given much attention.
Oh… I see… ignore what you experience. Enter a state of sensory deprivation and have delusions.
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Meditation. 
Or as we say, “sensory deprivation.”
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Higher Conscious awareness is knowing where we are focusing our Attention. We have been only trained to focus into the world but our repeated indulgences is from the mind and its desires.
Why is this a bad thing? We can have a mind and a desire to help everyone.
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Our mind becomes addicted to the sensory reactions.
Well, some of us have to earn a living you know. You can’t live on fresh air.
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Sometimes the mind is so engaged in its imagination like reading a novel or watching a movie and sometimes its engaged in the intellect when we are working out complex problems or investigating something that requires detail sequential facts.
I think you stopped writing before you reached a conclusion.
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Higher conscious awareness is achieved when we focus our attention on the inner light. "If thine eye be single".
“Inner light”… “Inner light?” What does that even mean? Where is it? Is it like the delusions caused by sensory deprivation?
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This is the science of the theists.
Then there is no hope for theists. There is no science there. I have told you the science behind it.

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[Theists] have an ability to see things from a different angle.
But this is a bad thing. There is the correct way to see and understand things and these things are accepted by you and I – then there are delusions and conclusions arrived at without any information, just wild, uneducated guesses.
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They are able to provide a humane solution to increase the conscious awareness of others.
And in the several thousand years of Indian culture, what has this achieved? A world class caste system, grinding poverty, inequality, no medicine or science to speak of, no inventions, ignorance, etc.

So why is all this a good thing?

Jesuis,
You need to stop all this mystic stuff. It’s not doing you or anyone else any good at all. You have been thinking this way for too long. It is time to enter the real world. The one on mystic inner eyes and illuminated bodies is OK for a 17 year old hippy girl who will grow out of it, but a guy of your age comes across as having an inability to realise what the world is about.

I find it difficult to understand anyone who is not interested in the real reasons behind their beliefs and, instead, swallows hook, line and sinker, the rabid babblings of mendicant and deluded peasants.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #422 on: March 23, 2014, 03:15:52 PM »
speaking as Jesuis

I see a wall. It's in front of me. Side to side it continues forever. I could climb the wall to see beyond it -- I should ask it first. "Wall, may I climb over you?". It does not respond; perhaps the wall is thinking, delving deep inside its consciousness and seeking an answer. I shall wait.

hours pass by

The wall just stands there. Does not speak. Does not move. "I have waited patiently, Wall, may I call you "Wall"? Your silence is deafening. I shall climb on top of you to see what is beyond.".

Jesuis climbs up on top of the wall but suddenly the wall collapses on top of Jesuis crushing his chest, and killing him.

The moral of the story: don't fuck with walls.


;)

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #423 on: March 23, 2014, 03:46:15 PM »
Jesuis

Considering that it took most of six months (or so it seemed) for you to finally get across what you meant by "atheists don't know god, theists do" or however you worded it, how long do you think it will take for you to get your next point across?

Especially since you could have explained it in one paragraph if you weren't so hardheaded and insistent upon speaking silly instead of using words as they were intended.

You could have said something like this with your first post.

rational jesuis
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I know that there is a god but I have not found a way to know him, hence I see myself as an atheist. And because of my towering ego, I assume that all who identify as atheists see the world the same way I do. They just define atheism wrong.  All we atheists have to do is get in touch with our consciousness, by finding a god-aware theist teacher, and he will guide us to this wonderful god we don't currently know. This truth is obvious to me, so it is of course obvious to you as well, even though most of you are in denial about all this shit.

There, was that so hard? But no, you had to trample all over our sensibilities with your poorly stated claims. For the aforementioned six months, simulated or not.

Now that I finally think I understand what you meant by those words (though I of course disagree), give me a reason to have hope that you will ever communicate effectively. If you can't even do that, then I'll know that you have no interest in talking to us, only interest in talking at us. And that (as you've already proven) is never any fun.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #424 on: March 23, 2014, 04:07:37 PM »
Communicating effectively would be, for Jesuis, a failure. First he must lure you into his badly worded trap to make you curious and thus dependent upon him for further "wisdom" by way of explanation. Once this has been achieved, he can then test the levels of your gullibility with ever more far-fetched, badly worded ideas: ideas that he has a hundred vague parables for, until, eventually, the one person in 10,000 who can think as Jesuis does is found. At this point, money can be made by teaching the same garbage and selling books and giving "courses in spiritual awareness".

It is a method beloved of snake-oil salesmen, con-artists and the so-called religious throughout the ages: never show all of your goods at one time: keep them wanting more and lead them down the path.

Look Parking Places, just get your wallet out and repeat the holy mantra after me, "Help yourself."
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #425 on: March 23, 2014, 11:01:15 PM »
I think the weak spot in Jesuis' position is that I think he said that there is a "core of truth" in every religion. This is something that Theosophists/New Agers made up, to attempt to unify the ancient religions. This works for Buddha and Jesus, because you can pretend that their ancient teachings and life have been distorted by propaganda. Therefore the core of truth is the bits said by the prophet, and the lies are said by the later propagandists.

It doesn't work so well for contemporary Jesuses, because you can read their books. Where their books are bullshit, you can't blame anyone else; it was said by them. So, if there is a core of truth in what they say, then 90% of what they say is garbage, yet they claim to be god men.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #426 on: March 23, 2014, 11:16:34 PM »
Are we really sunk so low as to bang on about atheists lacking morals? Does Jesuis really think morals are only locked into a religion?

Yeah, considering that the Indian religion he is promoting is all about developing your own soul, and blaming anything bad on karma. There is no tradition of philanthropy in India, like USA, because rich Indians believe that they earned the money, and that the poor deserve to be tortured, to work off their karma.



Here is something for Jesuis, if he can understand it.

http://www.kirpalsingh-teachings.org/it/circular-letters/120-instructions-for-seekers-after-truth.html
Quote
...capable of granting some first-hand spiritual experience at the very first sitting. Nothing is to be taken on trust or make-believe. 

That's Kirpal Singh, saying that you should only talk about what you have personally experienced, and you should take nothing on trust, because the system is so reliable, you can start to talk about your own experience, and not have to believe the master.





Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #427 on: March 24, 2014, 01:46:52 AM »
You must have missed the lesson where black is defined as the absence of light. If there is an absence of light, you don’t see anything. Your retinal nerves do not react.
That is signals interpreted by the eyes .... seeing is determined somewhere else. They can hook up devices to the visual cortex of the brain. Seeing is not light entering the eyes.

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Very dark, or without light? You can make an effort to see, but this is simply a figurative idiom. If there is no light, the retinal nerves simply do not send signals to the brain. it's like trying to switch on a torch with a dead battery. The idea that you have control over what you see is ridiculous – think about it.
No it is not! The faculty of seeing is a conscious attempt at looking .. if you are in a dark room where there is no light you are still attempting to see although you see nothing. Seeing is the observation being made before light enters the eyes. You are seeing the darkness. The same with hearing.. Hearing does not stop if there is nothing to hear. Your attention on the seeing or hearing brings that focus into your conscious sphere.

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What has that to do with anyone. These bogus peasants, how do we know that their teachers were not mad or charlatans?
You have an intellect. Are they really bogus peasants? You called Kirpal Singh an idiot. Your intellect has failed you and some others on here it would seem. Basically you are beginning to sound like a christian with no way of moving forward.  So God did not do it. Isn't that intellectually lazy. Best stick with the bible. You are good at that. We all know that argument though - so why stick with it --- Step out of your comfort zone - explore some more or continue arguing with the bible belt - it is a dead end story.

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A garage is not a car: it is there to contain a car.
Yes but it was designed for that purpose.

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What does that even mean. It is another one of those trite sentences that appear to mean something deep but fails to use words understandably. And why are you talking in 18th century English? It doesn’t make it any more comprehensible.
Never heard of poetry or mysticism? This is a form of coding that you do not understand unless you are schooled to.

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You mean that one-eyed men have glowing bodies?
.
Not really, But if you were observing your body from the surface of the Higgs Boson you would see this. According to the theists you would see the power source as light and the light is distributed around the entire body as colours of light. You would see complex nodes like transformers called chakras that ensure a smoothe running of the system around those areas. You would see Nadis. All is responding to your desire and your thinking and the foods, the drugs and the alcohol that is put into the system. They see what is good for it and what is bad for it.

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Good. Dspite the poor English, you are saying that we get our information from our senses – we are agreed.
If we understood that .. then you would understand that the signals need to be interpreted analysed and presented as something by something. I am looking at the moon but the moon is not in my head, I am looking into space but it is not in my head.  All that is in there is signals, but the seeing apparatus can be rigged via the visual cortex and signals can be presented to the observer of things that are not there.  The seeing is not the eyes these are instruments that the conscious observer has evolved so that it can be aware of the external environment it exists in. 

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Which “body” First you say there are openings in the body, then you say that this body is consciousness. You are confused.
The conscious observer interprets the signals that enter the body through various openings that feed it information of the external world - that is what makes the consciousness become more and more body conscious from birth to death.

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Oh… I see… ignore what you experience. Enter a state of sensory deprivation and have delusions.
No! Stop focusing your attention only on the body signals. Your attention has many functions.

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Or as we say, “sensory deprivation.”
You said it was akin to torture. Meditation is not torture. Some people go to sensory deprivation tanks willingly. They pay for that treatment. But even then it is not meditation. Meditation involves the consciousness moving its attention from Body to mind to spirit.

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Why is this a bad thing? We can have a mind and a desire to help everyone.
Because we are not utilising the body for its maximum potential - we have a highly sophisticated mechanism that is fine tuned away from what it is truly designed for. Which is to become fully consciously aware - Doctors today say babies have ESP and can understand all languages - if we devoted all of our time only at the level of the physical body consciousness then we are under utilising the mechanism. As we grow older we become more rigid to the reality that our body is capable off.

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Well, some of us have to earn a living you know. You can’t live on fresh air.
Indeed. But there is a lot of time that is wasted too.

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“Inner light”… “Inner light?” What does that even mean? Where is it? Is it like the delusions caused by sensory deprivation?
If you see darkness when your eyes are closed. You are still conscious.  When your attention has fully collected at the single or third eye or the tenth door then the inner eye begins to open. The more you practice it you will be able to use it to see into the beyond. This evolutionary eye only happens when you have fine tuned the instrument away from the things that stir the mind in a negative way. This is called sinning. Cause it lowers your ability to see the truth of yourself. Hence a pure life, a highly morally aware and conscious life. All scientific to the self aware. This is the doorway or the third eye that opens up that NDE's and OBE's and spiritual travelers talk about that allows them to enter a higher region of conscious awareness.

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Then there is no hope for theists. There is no science there. I have told you the science behind it.
The theists are not asking you for your hope for them. They know how to repeatedly go within. There is a science behind this ability. Not because you say it isn't means you are right. You are not doing their science. Since the dawn of mankind - man has recorded his spiritual experiences - he has talked about the same door way into the inner realms. Only those studying that science ie the theists who were taught and then teach the path to becoming self aware. They understand the problems they have with the deluded, the inhumane, the drunk, the drugged and the lack of humanity, who at the drop of a kerchief will be willing to destroy all their work. 

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But this is a bad thing. There is the correct way to see and understand things and these things are accepted by you and I – then there are delusions and conclusions arrived at without any information, just wild, uneducated guesses.
Meditation is growing across the world . Theists have been promoting it and science is now supporting it. Where is the bad you claim? You are not keeping up with current affairs. There is no delusion in meditation, there is delusion in misinformation. You are doing a lot of that today.

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And in the several thousand years of Indian culture, what has this achieved? A world class caste system, grinding poverty, inequality, no medicine or science to speak of, no inventions, ignorance, etc.

So why is all this a good thing?

India is a country of invading cultures. Each setting up a system of their own upon the peaceful people that once lived there. But somehow all eventually find some peace and harmony with nature considering the amount of life that is being protected by the thinking that has taken root in the minds of the people. There are more simple and good humane people with a lot less in this part of the world than in many other parts of the world. Granted the rich and greedy keeps getting richer off the good people everywhere.

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Jesuis,You need to stop all this mystic stuff. It’s not doing you or anyone else any good at all.
I need answers, not people trampling on my investigative nature. If you say there is no God you need to answer the woo questions raised by the theists. Or it would appear as if you are trying to pull the lid over my eyes by constantly redefining the words.

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You have been thinking this way for too long. It is time to enter the real world.
I have lived that life already - I am on a new quest especially now that Quantum physics is getting more interesting. I can no longer hang on to the old way of thinking like you do.

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The one on mystic inner eyes and illuminated bodies is OK for a 17 year old hippy girl who will grow out of it, but a guy of your age comes across as having an inability to realise what the world is about.
That is just condescending nonsense as we are on the verge of a new way of thinking since we have discovered the Higgs Boson.  You have problems explaining what the seeing mechanism is even at this level of science, you also will have problems explaining what the hearing mechanism is and we know you definitely have no clue what consciousness is and absolutely no idea what or where life comes from to energize life fors and their programs.

What is your real world if not some concoction of untruths?
How do you know what you know if not through some story to give it some perspective?
Theists work from what they know - Scientists work backwards. 
However, according to theists they will still have to reach the same conclusions when they have reached that level of observing the same truths. The only mechanism or instrument that can detect consciousness in its true form is with consciousness itself.

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I find it difficult to understand anyone who is not interested in the real reasons behind their beliefs and, instead, swallows hook, line and sinker, the rabid babblings of mendicant and deluded peasants.

Your difficulty in understanding comes from you and it is what I am trying to explain to help with that. I have supplied many books to indicate what I am thinking now and where my vision of angle of vision is changing. I used to think like you before. I have changed my perspective over time because of what I am reading. Why do you think you failed to convince me that what you think is real is actually real? Because I have answered all your questions - but you have not answered my questions accurately - you have what the theists are saying but you insist on your dogma, you simply dismiss it as woo - why is that? You cll them idiots and peasants out of spite - why is that ? is that you clinging to your Dogma? I understand everything you have provided by way of explanation but it lacks authenticity - you have not given anything new, and a lot of it outdated.

What is life -- you got nothing
What is consciousness - you got nothing
What is truth - it is something that cannot change.
What is atheism if not the opposite of theism?
Theists are saying what they know and they are claiming you don't. And even when you are faced with the facts of the theists you dismiss it as nothing. Why is that? Dogma, bad programming - what?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #428 on: March 24, 2014, 01:51:12 AM »
Jesuis

Considering that it took most of six months (or so it seemed) for you to finally get across what you meant by "atheists don't know god, theists do" or however you worded it, how long do you think it will take for you to get your next point across?

Especially since you could have explained it in one paragraph if you weren't so hardheaded and insistent upon speaking silly instead of using words as they were intended.

You could have said something like this with your first post.

rational jesuis
Quote
I know that there is a god but I have not found a way to know him, hence I see myself as an atheist. And because of my towering ego, I assume that all who identify as atheists see the world the same way I do. They just define atheism wrong.  All we atheists have to do is get in touch with our consciousness, by finding a god-aware theist teacher, and he will guide us to this wonderful god we don't currently know. This truth is obvious to me, so it is of course obvious to you as well, even though most of you are in denial about all this shit.

There, was that so hard? But no, you had to trample all over our sensibilities with your poorly stated claims. For the aforementioned six months, simulated or not.

Now that I finally think I understand what you meant by those words (though I of course disagree), give me a reason to have hope that you will ever communicate effectively. If you can't even do that, then I'll know that you have no interest in talking to us, only interest in talking at us. And that (as you've already proven) is never any fun.
That bold bit makes no sense - how could I say say that. I thought I lacked the power of good English.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #429 on: March 24, 2014, 01:55:17 AM »
Communicating effectively would be, for Jesuis, a failure.
Sorry about that.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #430 on: March 24, 2014, 02:10:19 AM »
I think the weak spot in Jesuis' position is that I think he said that there is a "core of truth" in every religion.
Thanks I did. I was talking about conscious awareness.

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This is something that Theosophists/New Agers made up, to attempt to unify the ancient religions. This works for Buddha and Jesus, because you can pretend that their ancient teachings and life have been distorted by propaganda. Therefore the core of truth is the bits said by the prophet, and the lies are said by the later propagandists.
The more we are consciously aware the more we see unity rather than duality. The egotists are trying to get one up on the other, the humble is trying to create unity because they have that higher outlook.

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It doesn't work so well for contemporary Jesuses, because you can read their books. Where their books are bullshit, you can't blame anyone else; it was said by them. So, if there is a core of truth in what they say, then 90% of what they say is garbage, yet they claim to be god men.
Depends on what they say and to who. It would be pointless to tell an American audience things like Akashic records when they have no way of understanding it. Its all woo words. That is a bad sower. A good sower knows he needs to plant seeds on good ground. That is why Paul Twitchell did wrong. If someone tried to explain to me the mathematics surrounding the finding of the higgs boson they would be wasting their time. A teacher must only impart knowledge to his students in his class and it is the students duty to remain in the class and not to go blabbering their mouths. to the unschooled infertile ground it is 90% garbage.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #431 on: March 24, 2014, 02:14:33 AM »
Here is something for Jesuis, if he can understand it.

http://www.kirpalsingh-teachings.org/it/circular-letters/120-instructions-for-seekers-after-truth.html
...capable of granting some first-hand spiritual experience at the very first sitting. Nothing is to be taken on trust or make-believe. 
Thanks!

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That's Kirpal Singh, saying that you should only talk about what you have personally experienced, and you should take nothing on trust, because the system is so reliable, you can start to talk about your own experience, and not have to believe the master.
That right - a theist knows God and an atheist does not.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #432 on: March 24, 2014, 02:16:07 AM »
speaking as Jesuis

I see a wall. It's in front of me. Side to side it continues forever. I could climb the wall to see beyond it -- I should ask it first. "Wall, may I climb over you?". It does not respond; perhaps the wall is thinking, delving deep inside its consciousness and seeking an answer. I shall wait.

hours pass by

The wall just stands there. Does not speak. Does not move. "I have waited patiently, Wall, may I call you "Wall"? Your silence is deafening. I shall climb on top of you to see what is beyond.".

Jesuis climbs up on top of the wall but suddenly the wall collapses on top of Jesuis crushing his chest, and killing him.

The moral of the story: don't fuck with walls.


;)

-Nam
Your ESP is terrible.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #433 on: March 24, 2014, 02:18:30 AM »
Does Jesuis also realize, and which has mentioned to him a billion times[1] that the most peaceful places on Earth are places that lack religion not have it in abundance.

-Nam
 1. literally...well...not literally
There are no peaceful places on Earth -- literally speaking.
Peace is observed by that which is conscious. The consciously aware creates peace wherever he/she is.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

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Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #434 on: March 24, 2014, 02:25:55 AM »
students duty to remain in the class and not to go blabbering their mouths. to the unschooled infertile ground it is 90% garbage.

No, I mean, when Kirpal Singh rewrote his history to claim he was descended from another Guru, he was talking garbage. You miss just about any point made to you, don't you?

You claim that you can tell when some guru is lying, by his words, but Paul Twit got right past you, and so does Kirpal Cola.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.