Author Topic: What is consciousness? Theists say ...  (Read 6041 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2014, 01:17:54 PM »
.......which is built by a designer.
Show me the designer of 'consciousness', then.

I'm quite serious here.  I don't care at all what you believe, or how logical it sounds to you.  I care what evidence you have to support your belief.
You would have to show me you have consciousness first.
How do we do this?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2014, 01:21:59 PM »
Well, science doesn't know what consciousness is well enough to put forth a theory. There are all sorts of ideas, but none seem adequate at this time.
Are you sure?

Quote
Do I don't have any real opinion about what consciousness is. I read about the research a lot, but nobody is claiming to have it all figured out.
why not? Aren't you conscious?

Quote
As for the philosophers, I don't run in circles where they are important, so I don't worry about their opinions.
Where is your critical skills? Should everyone else do the work for you?

Quote
But I'm going to guess that you are more than willing to inadequately fill us in on the latest from Depak Chopra and Miley Cyrus. Please do continue.
I-Robot and Bruce Almighty is more my cup of tea
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 01:45:17 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2014, 01:23:04 PM »
The equivalent of a computer's operating system.
Fishing?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2014, 01:27:30 PM »

Here's a great read on advancing and future computer technology such as artificial intelligence, consciousness, self-awareness, and our obvious primitive understanding of our own human brain and how it works. The author is Michio Kaku from a very dated book Visoins published in 1999 from a technology standpoint but is still very relevant with the trends happening even today. I could have summed it up but he says it better and quite frankly - I would love to see how his words are interpreted... Sorry for the long wall of text, skip it if want to.
Michio Kaku has a new book out on The Furture of the Mind. Have you read it?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Online jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2104
  • Darwins +375/-8
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2014, 01:28:06 PM »
The equivalent of a computer's operating system.
Fishing?

Do...do you see actual words on this website?  Do you just see all the text in these posts like a Rorschach test or something?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2014, 01:37:45 PM »
Well, science doesn't know what consciousness is well enough to put forth a theory. There are all sorts of ideas, but none seem adequate at this time.

Do I don't have any real opinion about what consciousness is. I read about the research a lot, but nobody is claiming to have it all figured out.

As for the philosophers, I don't run in circles where they are important, so I don't worry about their opinions.

But I'm going to guess that you are more than willing to inadequately fill us in on the latest from Depak Chopra and Miley Cyrus. Please do continue.

It's true science has bupkes right now. Religion has always had the answer though. Sometimes, I do get upset that religion is automatically dismissed with a handwave. That is anti-scientific thinking.
Some well know scientists say things without using critical thinking. They try to pull the lid over peoples eyes. All religions have a starting point and it is with a teacher.
There was no Buddhism before Buddha, No Christians before Jesus. No Judaism before Moses, No Islam before Mohammad, No Sikhism before Nanak. This lack of critical thinking has cause much problems for such great scientists. It is tie for them to start a serious debate rather than keep rejecting evidence through critical thinking.
Jesus Nanak, Buddha, Mohammad, and many more have higher conscious awareness.

Lets see if we can solve how they have this capability.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2014, 01:42:52 PM »
The equivalent of a computer's operating system.
Fishing?

Do...do you see actual words on this website?  Do you just see all the text in these posts like a Rorschach test or something?

Forgive me my sight and memory has deteriorated over the years. What was I supposed to see relative to consciousness.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Online jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2104
  • Darwins +375/-8
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2014, 01:59:57 PM »
Forgive me my sight and memory has deteriorated over the years. What was I supposed to see relative to consciousness.

Well, in response to jaimehlers:
Quote
The equivalent of a computer's operating system.

You asked the question "Fishing?"

As far as I can tell, asking that question in response to what he posted is nonsensical.  I don't know what point you were trying to get across, what additional information you wanted from jaimehlers...basically, I have no idea, whatsoever, why you asked the question "Fishing?".  There appears to be no relationship whatsoever between the two posts.

The only way I can rationalize why you would post the question "Fishing?" is to assumed that you were looking at something completely different.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline stuffin

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 734
  • Darwins +26/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2014, 02:07:31 PM »
Well, science doesn't know what consciousness is well enough to put forth a theory. There are all sorts of ideas, but none seem adequate at this time.

Do I don't have any real opinion about what consciousness is. I read about the research a lot, but nobody is claiming to have it all figured out.

As for the philosophers, I don't run in circles where they are important, so I don't worry about their opinions.

But I'm going to guess that you are more than willing to inadequately fill us in on the latest from Depak Chopra and Miley Cyrus. Please do continue.

It's true science has bupkes right now. Religion has always had the answer though. Sometimes, I do get upset that religion is automatically dismissed with a handwave. That is anti-scientific thinking.
Some well know scientists say things without using critical thinking. They try to pull the lid over peoples eyes. All religions have a starting point and it is with a teacher.
There was no Buddhism before Buddha, No Christians before Jesus. No Judaism before Moses, No Islam before Mohammad, No Sikhism before Nanak. This lack of critical thinking has cause much problems for such great scientists. It is tie for them to start a serious debate rather than keep rejecting evidence through critical thinking.
Jesus Nanak, Buddha, Mohammad, and many more have higher conscious awareness.

Lets see if we can solve how they have this capability.

I see what you did there
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2014, 02:25:46 PM »
Forgive me my sight and memory has deteriorated over the years. What was I supposed to see relative to consciousness.

Well, in response to jaimehlers:
Quote
The equivalent of a computer's operating system.

You asked the question "Fishing?"

As far as I can tell, asking that question in response to what he posted is nonsensical.  I don't know what point you were trying to get across, what additional information you wanted from jaimehlers...basically, I have no idea, whatsoever, why you asked the question "Fishing?".  There appears to be no relationship whatsoever between the two posts.

The only way I can rationalize why you would post the question "Fishing?" is to assumed that you were looking at something completely different.
Fishing meant - was he looking to see if there was some belief that a computer had consciousness?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2014, 02:29:04 PM »
Well, science doesn't know what consciousness is well enough to put forth a theory. There are all sorts of ideas, but none seem adequate at this time.

Do I don't have any real opinion about what consciousness is. I read about the research a lot, but nobody is claiming to have it all figured out.

As for the philosophers, I don't run in circles where they are important, so I don't worry about their opinions.

But I'm going to guess that you are more than willing to inadequately fill us in on the latest from Depak Chopra and Miley Cyrus. Please do continue.

It's true science has bupkes right now. Religion has always had the answer though. Sometimes, I do get upset that religion is automatically dismissed with a handwave. That is anti-scientific thinking.
Some well know scientists say things without using critical thinking. They try to pull the lid over peoples eyes. All religions have a starting point and it is with a teacher.
There was no Buddhism before Buddha, No Christians before Jesus. No Judaism before Moses, No Islam before Mohammad, No Sikhism before Nanak. This lack of critical thinking has cause much problems for such great scientists. It is tie for them to start a serious debate rather than keep rejecting evidence through critical thinking.
Jesus Nanak, Buddha, Mohammad, and many more have higher conscious awareness.

Lets see if we can solve how they have this capability.

I see what you did there
Someone posted Richard Feynman said religion is ..... on another thread and it was a lack of critical thinking on his part.
Religion is as I said above.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 02:33:46 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4936
  • Darwins +563/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2014, 02:33:17 PM »
Thats fine. Lets put you in the darkest room and also block the signals from your eyes to the brain.

Is seeing stopped or are you consciously still trying to see?
That wouldn't prove anything, though.  How do you tell if it's not the brain trying to see, instead of the consciousness?

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2014, 02:37:35 PM »
Thats fine. Lets put you in the darkest room and also block the signals from your eyes to the brain.

Is seeing stopped or are you consciously still trying to see?
That wouldn't prove anything, though.  How do you tell if it's not the brain trying to see, instead of the consciousness?
Because we know the brain is not the individual consciousness it is matter. Matter reacting to signal inputs.
That is why I asked to take away the signal input.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4936
  • Darwins +563/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2014, 02:38:55 PM »
Some well know scientists say things without using critical thinking. They try to pull the lid over peoples eyes.
Cite your sources and give us some names to work with.  Anyone can make a vague claim like this without supporting it.  Or did you perhaps mean that scientists reject claims like this by using critical thinking?  That would be more consistent with the rest of your post.

Quote from: Jesuis
All religions have a starting point and it is with a teacher.
Not relevant unless you have evidence which shows that these religions are coming from some kind of "higher awareness".

Quote from: Jesuis
There was no Buddhism before Buddha, No Christians before Jesus. No Judaism before Moses, No Islam before Mohammad, No Sikhism before Nanak. This lack of critical thinking has cause much problems for such great scientists. It is tie for them to start a serious debate rather than keep rejecting evidence through critical thinking.
Certainly.  Present real evidence and we can have a debate about it.  Until then, you'll just have to cope with the fact that people are going to be critical of claims presented without evidence.

Quote from: Jesuis
Jesus Nanak, Buddha, Mohammad, and many more have higher conscious awareness.
At the risk of repeating myself, evidence please.

Quote from: Jesuis
Lets see if we can solve how they have this capability.
First, you must show that they actually have this capability.  That requires evidence.

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4936
  • Darwins +563/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2014, 02:42:56 PM »
Because we know the brain is not the individual consciousness it is matter. Matter reacting to signal inputs.
That is why I asked to take away the signal input.
Gotta do something about the brain's own signals too, otherwise you're not going to accomplish anything.  Even if someone loses their eyes, their visual cortex still functions.  That's why we have dreams that involve sight, even though the eyes are closed.  It's because the visual cortex receives input from the brain which it interprets into images.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11041
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2014, 02:49:06 PM »
What is consciousness?
Modern day Theists say it is a divine spark of spiritual conscious energy that comes from God.

You (theists) have been singing the same song for as long as recorded history. How about some evidence? Oh, sorry... That's one of religion's many faults. No evidence.

What do you say it is?

I am not knowledgeable enough in the area of neuroscience to be able to formulate a proper answer to that question. My guess is neither are you and your kind (theists).

or

"Or"? Do you think the answers are equivalent?

What do scientists say it is

No clue.

What do the philosophers say consciousness is

Don't care.

Why do you believe them
or
how do you know they are right?

I don't believe them because I don't know what they say. By default, I disbelieve them, but it's not something I have analyzed, like my gnostic atheism.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2014, 02:56:26 PM »
Because we know the brain is not the individual consciousness it is matter. Matter reacting to signal inputs.
That is why I asked to take away the signal input.
Gotta do something about the brain's own signals too, otherwise you're not going to accomplish anything.  Even if someone loses their eyes, their visual cortex still functions.  That's why we have dreams that involve sight, even though the eyes are closed.  It's because the visual cortex receives input from the brain which it interprets into images.
As I said The brain functions regarding various inputs. It is not conscious. We can activate the brain but consciousness needs to be there for the individual to make sense of the activity. The brain is not the individual consciousness.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline stuffin

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 734
  • Darwins +26/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2014, 03:02:29 PM »
Some well know scientists say things without using critical thinking. They try to pull the lid over peoples eyes. All religions have a starting point and it is with a teacher.
There was no Buddhism before Buddha, No Christians before Jesus. No Judaism before Moses, No Islam before Mohammad, No Sikhism before Nanak. This lack of critical thinking has cause much problems for such great scientists. It is tie for them to start a serious debate rather than keep rejecting evidence through critical thinking.
Jesus Nanak, Buddha, Mohammad, and many more have higher conscious awareness.

Lets see if we can solve how they have this capability.
YES, Jesus and Mohammad and Nanak and Moses and Budda were pivot points for their propaganda, not originators. They took what came before them and shaped it for their own means. So they had a master (or masters) who gave them their substance

Also, please define what benchmark you use to determine higher conscious awareness? Is there sliding scale? Maybe you got a pie chart, I like those. Or a regular graph. And is there a learning curve?
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline stuffin

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 734
  • Darwins +26/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2014, 03:05:59 PM »
Because we know the brain is not the individual consciousness it is matter. Matter reacting to signal inputs.
That is why I asked to take away the signal input.
Gotta do something about the brain's own signals too, otherwise you're not going to accomplish anything.  Even if someone loses their eyes, their visual cortex still functions.  That's why we have dreams that involve sight, even though the eyes are closed.  It's because the visual cortex receives input from the brain which it interprets into images.
As I said The brain functions regarding various inputs. It is not conscious. We can activate the brain but consciousness needs to be there for the individual to make sense of the activity.. The brain is not the individual consciousness

Which came first; consciousness or the brain?
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2014, 03:08:44 PM »
What is consciousness?
Modern day Theists say it is a divine spark of spiritual conscious energy that comes from God.

You (theists) have been singing the same song for as long as recorded history. How about some evidence? Oh, sorry... That's one of religion's many faults. No evidence.
Paying attention in class is a requirement to pass the test.
Critical Thinking may lead you to ask some good questions but there is an agenda in critical thinking.
When you get the evidence you need you need to do something with it.

Quote
I am not knowledgeable enough in the area of neuroscience to be able to formulate a proper answer to that question. My guess is neither are you and your kind (theists).
See your above statement. They have been saying it ll the time. What has changed?What have you done with the evidence you have been given.


Quote
Don't care.
That give the result above.

Quote
I don't believe them because I don't know what they say. By default, I disbelieve them, but it's not something I have analyzed, like my gnostic atheism.
.
Not sure you are going to get very far on your book with that attitude. What do you think?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 03:40:28 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2014, 03:11:08 PM »

Which came first; consciousness or the brain?
Consciousness.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6710
  • Darwins +534/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2014, 03:22:03 PM »

Jesus Nanak, Buddha, Mohammad, and many more have higher conscious awareness.
What is " higher conscious awareness"? How do you know they had it? How do you know they were not simply imagining things> Mentally ill but plausible?

Can you tell us more about how we test for " higher conscious awareness"?

Or is this more of "My words mean what I want them to mean. I don;t know what it means but neither do you."?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4936
  • Darwins +563/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2014, 03:25:15 PM »
As I said The brain functions regarding various inputs. It is not conscious. We can activate the brain but consciousness needs to be there for the individual to make sense of the activity. The brain is not the individual consciousness.
How do you know that the consciousness isn't generated by the brain?

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2014, 03:29:33 PM »
YES, Jesus and Mohammad and Nanak and Moses and Budda were pivot points for their propaganda, not originators. They took what came before them and shaped it for their own means. So they had a master (or masters) who gave them their substance.
Yes that is right. But "Propaganda"(Questionable). How did you arrive at that? Did you know them?

Quote
Also, please define what benchmark you use to determine higher conscious awareness? Is there sliding scale? Maybe you got a pie chart, I like those. Or a regular graph. And is there a learning curve?
Just taking human interaction around us - there are enough levels of consciousness for us to deal with on a daily basis.
Some extreme cases would be in the acts of people like Hitler and Gandhi. However, Mom and Dad. Brother and sister. If you have some form of consciousness you would be able to differentiate different levels of conscious awareness in others. By increasing your consciousness you see others less conscious or more conscious. If you care about things around you or for them you try and raise their level of consciousness too so that there is more peace for you and the ones you care about.

Our society laws require us to have some level of conscious awareness or they will lock us up.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 03:39:03 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2014, 03:36:31 PM »

Jesus Nanak, Buddha, Mohammad, and many more have higher conscious awareness.
What is " higher conscious awareness"? How do you know they had it? How do you know they were not simply imagining things> Mentally ill but plausible?

Can you tell us more about how we test for " higher conscious awareness"?

Or is this more of "My words mean what I want them to mean. I don;t know what it means but neither do you."?
They have an ability to see things from a different angle. They are able to provide a humane solution to increase the conscious awareness of others.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 03:38:10 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2014, 03:49:39 PM »
As I said The brain functions regarding various inputs. It is not conscious. We can activate the brain but consciousness needs to be there for the individual to make sense of the activity. The brain is not the individual consciousness.
How do you know that the consciousness isn't generated by the brain?
Life is conscious. Many life forms do not have a brain.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline stuffin

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 734
  • Darwins +26/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2014, 03:58:49 PM »

Which came first; consciousness or the brain?
Consciousness.


Please convince me with indisputable evidence.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6710
  • Darwins +534/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2014, 04:00:07 PM »

Jesus Nanak, Buddha, Mohammad, and many more have higher conscious awareness.
What is " higher conscious awareness"? How do you know they had it? How do you know they were not simply imagining things> Mentally ill but plausible?

Can you tell us more about how we test for " higher conscious awareness"?

Or is this more of "My words mean what I want them to mean. I don;t know what it means but neither do you."?
They have an ability to see things from a different angle. They are able to provide a humane solution to increase the conscious awareness of others.
What is this "different angle"? How do we know this view is true? Do they have another part of the brain to do this or do they have a different brain to ordinary people?

Look, jesuis, what you do not seem to understand is that humans can train their brain to be effeicent at various tasks: they also can train their brain to be irrational, to see visions, etc.

Have you ever considered, say, a great artist? Why can he paint pictures better than you? Probably because he has practised for years and his neurons are trained so that he can control the brush, identify the shades and colours, imagine great scenes.

So it is with these people you mention. The start by thinking something that is not proven. Then they start to get obsessed by it, then they spend years imagining that they have found the "final answer!" They train their brain, but they do not train it correctly. Nothing any of those you mentioned can be tested, or if it can, it is blindingly obvious.

Mystic idiots have been entertaining people since the dawn of mankind - telling stories that they are convinced are correct. If you really want some answer, go and study evolution and evolutionary advantage, have a look at psychology and psychiatry, read some history - they all explain a lot and you don't have to believe in an invisible sky-pixie who poofs things into existence and orders nations destroyed.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: What is consciousness? Theists say ...
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2014, 04:06:27 PM »

Which came first; consciousness or the brain?
Consciousness.


Please convince me with indisputable evidence.
A tree does not have a brain.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.