Author Topic: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge  (Read 58589 times)

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #232 on: March 04, 2014, 08:20:02 PM »
^^^Also the "no good without evil" concept raises the question of how heaven, a place where everything is good, could even exist. If people are only doing good in heaven, how do they know if they have nothing bad to compare it with?

Disclaimer: I am not agreeing with the concept of "no good without evil"-- I am just saying that, for those who try to use this as a definition, it is problematic.
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #233 on: March 04, 2014, 08:47:58 PM »
Jesuis and skeptic,

You both clearly do not have any or little analytical, science, physics and/or engineering backgrounds which require an 'actual purpose' in life -
To improve the quality of living for starters vs living in a cave where 1 out of every 2 child dies at birth or more back in the day.... Anyways....
Is it a requirement??

I can pick coconuts and other fruits and veg, which fuels a massive global market all over the world. One thing for sure you have no idea of economy or who gets helped with what I do. I work hard to make sure you do not have to so that you can go to a grocery and get the food you need rather than you grow it and cannot go to school. So please do not do that. It comes across as ignorant.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 09:18:07 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #234 on: March 04, 2014, 08:51:27 PM »
Jesuis and skeptic,

The truth is I was brought up going to church, singing the weird songs all the other adults did etc... But at a very age I was very interested in why things are the way they are from all sorts of angles.  From mathematics to science to physics to even the psychology of why analytical people become engineers to why the people like yourself who have probably never solved a double or triple integral or haven't had any engineering classes to find out why materials fail or mechanical systems break-down end up toting something that there is absolutely no measurable evidence for - just the stuff you like to make up to call it and label it the ways you've done here.
Sorry I forgive you.
Good luck

OK What else was I supposed to say to that.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 09:19:44 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #235 on: March 04, 2014, 09:03:22 PM »
Yes, that certainly is an odd claim. No other religion teaches the same basic claim of salvation through Christ. Other religions claim you have to do good deeds and keep hoping you make it to paradise. Those sound like mean gods. A truly good God gives you a guarantee into Heaven with no hoping that you made it or worrying that you didn't make it.

That eliminates Yahweh then. I have seen others give plenty of quotes about this on here. There is no guarantee except in your own mind.


No. Accept Jesus into your heart as your Lord and Savior and you have a guarantee into heaven.

What is more loving or simple than that? No worrying about not being good enough to get into Heaven.

But you have said yourself many times that there are a lot of "Christians" out there who are deceived. What of those who accept Jesus with all sincerity but are actually worshiping a false version of him. A demon-influenced one? They live their lives sure in their hearts that they are bound for heaven, having, as you say, accepted him as lord and savior, not realizing that they are misinterpreting some bits of the message. Again, you have said yourself that probably only one in ten (or some such figure) of Christians out there are actually "Christians".
So, really, where is the guarantee? And for that matter, I don't think you ever HAVE come up with an actual, well thought out reason why you can be 100% certain, with all the incredibly ingenious and persuasive demons out there, just plotting some way to throw you off track,  that you have not, somewhere along the line, fallen victim to a piece of deluded thinking.

I do not fall victim to man's thinking. man thinks a church is a building, as if God is confined to 4 walls and a ceiling. Bible says "where 2 gather in my name, that is church."

This forum could technically be church when 2 Christians are posting.

How do you guys not understand this by now? If someone tells you something about Jesus/Christianity/God and it's not in the Bible, why would you assume they know what they are talking about?

Now you know when anyone says, "You MUSt go to church," you can cite the Bible and say, "Bible says where 2 gather in Jesus' name, that is church" and watch the false prophet scurry away back under his rock trying to dupe someone else. The Bible is the most powerful weapon against deceivers.

This is great. There is absolutely no correlation between what J&T says, and what autotroll answers. Also autotroll quotes the bible wrong.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #236 on: March 04, 2014, 09:26:15 PM »
Gandhi might not be the best choice. As loved as he was, the man was a pervert. He slept on a pile of naked 10-12 year old girls, one of whom was his niece.

Not everyone is perfect. but, this isn't usually mentioned in history class.

It's a perversion that's created by the obsession with abstinence in most religions. Catholic priests fall into the same trap. So did Jesus, apparently.

I dispute that he slept "on" a "pile". He slept (literally) with 2, at most, and thought that he needed to test himself. Obviously the Islamic idea of covering women up like a shuttlecock seemed hollow to him.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #237 on: March 04, 2014, 09:29:34 PM »
Is it a requirement??

It's not a requirement, as we would applaud a coconut picker, who obviously knew his stuff.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #238 on: March 04, 2014, 10:39:11 PM »
Here is a good page for starters.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/definition-of-atheism
Craig is good at showing the secrets behind the atheists' tricks.

You do realize that this is the same William Lane Craig who says christians shouldn't expose themselves to material which is potentially destructive.

He doesn't want you here.

Which is kind of interesting. He and I finally agree on something.

I'm pretty sure screwtape was hoping you would say something in your own words, but he's forever the optimist. I'll wait for more clarification.

Material can only be destructive if you let it be destructive. Example, some people can drink beer on the weekends. others drink it every day. THAT is destructive.

Material posted by atheists is not destructive. It's only destructive if you let it get into your head and control you.

For example, if somebody is not a good logical thinker, it might not be a good idea to show them atheistic arguments because they may fall victim to them, whereas other logical thinking people such as myself and others can point out the flaws in the atheistic reasoning.

It's my experience that atheists target impressionable people who aren't up to the task of refuting them. The problem of evil can be very harming to a mind that has never thought about it before. Some people may hear the problem of evil and think it is a very good argument because they never heard the refutations. others such as craig and myself laugh at the problem of evil.

I agree with you here. William Lane Craig does not. If he knew you were here, he would advise that you leave. Because he considers material posted by atheists destructive.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #239 on: March 04, 2014, 11:28:12 PM »
Here is a good page for starters.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/definition-of-atheism
Craig is good at showing the secrets behind the atheists' tricks.

You do realize that this is the same William Lane Craig who says christians shouldn't expose themselves to material which is potentially destructive.

He doesn't want you here.

Which is kind of interesting. He and I finally agree on something.

I'm pretty sure screwtape was hoping you would say something in your own words, but he's forever the optimist. I'll wait for more clarification.

Material can only be destructive if you let it be destructive. Example, some people can drink beer on the weekends. others drink it every day. THAT is destructive.

Material posted by atheists is not destructive. It's only destructive if you let it get into your head and control you.

For example, if somebody is not a good logical thinker, it might not be a good idea to show them atheistic arguments because they may fall victim to them, whereas other logical thinking people such as myself and others can point out the flaws in the atheistic reasoning.

It's my experience that atheists target impressionable people who aren't up to the task of refuting them. The problem of evil can be very harming to a mind that has never thought about it before. Some people may hear the problem of evil and think it is a very good argument because they never heard the refutations. others such as craig and myself laugh at the problem of evil.

I agree with you here. William Lane Craig does not. If he knew you were here, he would advise that you leave. Because he considers material posted by atheists destructive.

So Craig disagrees. So what? Do you really think all Christians are just one hive mind?

Does this mean I can say that all of you guys are exactly like Nam?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #240 on: March 04, 2014, 11:29:32 PM »
Gandhi might not be the best choice. As loved as he was, the man was a pervert. He slept on a pile of naked 10-12 year old girls, one of whom was his niece.

Not everyone is perfect. but, this isn't usually mentioned in history class.

It's a perversion that's created by the obsession with abstinence in most religions. Catholic priests fall into the same trap. So did Jesus, apparently.

I dispute that he slept "on" a "pile". He slept (literally) with 2, at most, and thought that he needed to test himself. Obviously the Islamic idea of covering women up like a shuttlecock seemed hollow to him.

Was that a defense of gandhi's choice of sleeping arrangements? Would you accept that defense at a trial?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #241 on: March 04, 2014, 11:30:32 PM »
^^^Also the "no good without evil" concept raises the question of how heaven, a place where everything is good, could even exist. If people are only doing good in heaven, how do they know if they have nothing bad to compare it with?

Disclaimer: I am not agreeing with the concept of "no good without evil"-- I am just saying that, for those who try to use this as a definition, it is problematic.

Hell will be there. But, Hell could possibly be destroyed in the lake of fire, which is the second death and we will just see the smoke rising forever to remind us of evil.

Either way, we will know what evil is.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #242 on: March 04, 2014, 11:32:12 PM »
This is great. There is absolutely no correlation between what J&T says, and what autotroll answers. Also autotroll quotes the bible wrong.

I just told you how you could weed out the deceivers: Use the Bible.

Atheists like to brag about how much they know the Bible, so call someone's bluff when they say something and see if it matches with Biblical teaching.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #243 on: March 04, 2014, 11:38:36 PM »
Matthew 7:21 not everyone who calls me lord will enter god's kingdom (erv, online)

Most Christians worship demons, you have previously said so many times. You say you are the exception who is going to heaven.

That's true, Foxy. Jesus is referring to the deceivers who distort his doctrine for monetary gain, such as the Catholic Church.

Neither Foxy nor I (since my question was similar) were talking about deceivers who distort doctrine for monetary gain. We are talking about people who truly believe in Jesus as savior, but are, in all sincerity, misinterpreting said doctrine, either through demonic influence or simple mistake. I know plenty of Catholics who believe with all their hearts that it is the only true church, and donate a great deal of time and money toward related causes. They are certainly not distorting doctrine with any intent to go against what they believe is the word of god. They are certainly not getting any personal monetary gain from it.  There are literally thousands of other sects of Christianity, and the followers of each have people who are absolutely sure that they are on the right path to heaven, while others will fall by the wayside. Do you believe that God will give them the benefit of the doubt for having done their best, or will he tell these people who have trusted, throughout their lives, that they would be going to heaven, that he "never knew them"?

Oh, and by the way, since I know you will probably take this as some sort of admission that I actually believe in god, deep down, I stress that this is rhetorical, and I am only asking what the answer is from your point of view.

I have no idea what God will do to the ones who were honestly duped. Maybe He will give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe He won't. I can't presume to know the mind and will of the Lord.

I will say that if these Catholics that you speak of really were into Jesus, they would be able to read the Bible for themselves and see that none of their Church doctrine matches Biblical doctrine. Then again, the Catholic clergy does not put much emphasis on the Bible. This is most likely to control the flock so they don't start questioning.

So, one one hand it is their fault. But on the other hand it's not their fault. This is something I will leave up to the Lord and I will stand by His decision.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #244 on: March 04, 2014, 11:56:37 PM »
This is great. There is absolutely no correlation between what J&T says, and what autotroll answers. Also autotroll quotes the bible wrong.

I just told you how you could weed out the deceivers: Use the Bible.

Atheists like to brag about how much they know the Bible, so call someone's bluff when they say something and see if it matches with Biblical teaching.

Maybe some atheists do, but I don't. I don't need to know about the bible. I have you to tell me all about it.

Too bad it is like being an expert on elephant farts. Only less tasteful. But each to his own.

That you also redefine obnoxious is a bonus. How else would I know I was a generally acceptable human being if I didn't have you as such a fine example of the exact opposite.

This is where you provide a generic biblical quote and a snarky afterthought. I can hardly wait. If you take requests, I'd prefer something from Leviticus.

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #245 on: March 05, 2014, 12:02:20 AM »
Maybe some atheists do, but I don't. I don't need to know about the bible. I have you to tell me all about it.

Too bad it is like being an expert on elephant farts. Only less tasteful. But each to his own.

That you also redefine obnoxious is a bonus. How else would I know I was a generally acceptable human being if I didn't have you as such a fine example of the exact opposite.

This is where you provide a generic biblical quote and a snarky afterthought. I can hardly wait. If you take requests, I'd prefer something from Leviticus.

I used to visit other atheist forums and there was one atheist who knew the Bible like the back of his hand. He bragged that he just likes putting Christians in their place. I personally thought it was a waste of time on his end but nevertheless, I am sad to say he knew the Bible better than most Christians I come across.

It pains me to admit this, but even he got me with some verses. :-[
 He knew right away if I said something that didn't match the Bible.

Now imagine if he put that knowledge to good use and actually became a Christian instead of just using the Bible for "Gotchas!"
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #246 on: March 05, 2014, 03:20:37 AM »
Now imagine if he put that knowledge to good use and actually became a Christian instead of just using the Bible for "Gotchas!"

If he became a Christian, how would he resolve all the problems with the Bible, such as Genesis not being correct? Would he have to become a Catholic?

Also, how would he resolve there being no historical evidence for Jesus and Moses, and the the stories about David are most likely bootard? Would he have to throw out the old testament, like Catholics?



When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #247 on: March 05, 2014, 03:32:17 AM »
Humans kill things every day for food, shelter, and clothing. Don't act so high and mighty.

There is a difference between killing a cow for meat to survive, to killing near almost everything just because you are not satisfied with them.

Your god is a maniacal dick, get used to it.
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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #248 on: March 05, 2014, 03:32:42 AM »
Prove to us that there are no leprechauns, then we will use your method.

What does that have to do with this topic? No one here made the definitive claim that leprechauns do not exist. If someone makes that claim, then they too would have to offer proof that leprechauns do not exist.
No one has made the definitive claim that god/gods do not exist. All they say is they lack believe in the god/gods the religious claim exist. The onus, the burden is the religious persons.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 04:35:46 AM by bertatberts »
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #249 on: March 05, 2014, 03:45:38 AM »
Christianity is unique.

Do you mean the Jesus who healed the sick and even raised the dead? Where the former paralysed walked again, the blind could miraculously see again, and the deaf could listen and the mute speak after the Master's gentle touch? But he did not only heal the body, he also healed the soul. They called him Saviour and Redeemer, and he healed both rich and poor, men and women, young and old, slaves and free men, friends and enemies. In one occasion a paralysed man was brough to him in his bed, and took his bed and left walking after the Saviour had touched him. What was this Saviour's name?

… Asklepios.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who was born by a mortal virgin mother and had a divine Father, and was known as the "Saviour of the world"? Before he was born his parents wandered to a bigger town, and prophets had foretold his birth and that he would be a king. This instigated a search for the infant Saviour by a leading figure who wanted to kill him. After growing up the Son of God was shown all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain. He also walked on water and when he met his end his mother and his favorite disciple stood by him. He then tells his mother: "Do not cry, I'm going to heaven". When he dies he utter: "It is finished" and the earth trembles and darkness cover the land. Then he ascended to heaven, and his greatest achievement was to conquer death.

His name was of course...Hercules.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We all of course know the Redeemer who was no figure of pagan Greek polytheism. He was the true saviour who wanted to help and save the sinful humans, by sacrificing himself. But he was willing to do this, out of love, pity and compassion for the humans.

His name:...Prometheus.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, who was the real Son of God, born by a mortal virgin mother, and often presented as the venerated newborn infant, or depicted riding a donkey? He healed the sick and did numerous wonders, among those making fine wine from plain water. He was killed but resurrected from the dead and became immortal. The followers of this god often ate a holy meal in a kind of sacramental union with the deity to achieve immortality after their death. One of this god's finest achievements was his death, his sacrifice, which delivers the whole human kind.

The God was the very popular Dionysos.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who is the "Light of the World", the One, the God who defeated death? Born of a virgin mother, considered the first true king by the people, who rose from the grave and ascended to heaven. He defeated death, and must be considered the single true God.

Of course the Egyptian Osiris!

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Now, the real God often called the "Light of the world", "The good shepherd", "The lamb" and is "…the way, the truth, and the life". Identified with a cross. Who could that be?

Horus, (the son of Osiris).
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The original "Light of the world" was the mediator between God and man and was born on the 25th of December. Local shepherds witnessed his birth and gave him gifts. He had 12 disciples, and when his work was done on earth he gathered together to a last supper, and then ascended to heaven. At doomsday he will return to pass judgment on both the living and the dead. The righteous will go to heaven and the sinful will be killed in a giant fire. Sunday is his holy day, and this religion gave us the seven days of the week. His followers called each other "brothers" and their leaders "fathers". They practiced baptism and established a sacred meal ritual, where flesh and blood was symbolically consumed by initiates. Above earth was heaven, and below the dark, hell, with demons and the sinners.

The 'Light of the World' is of course the sungod Mithra.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wise men were led to his birth by a star, and his conception was miraculous. After his birth the ruler in the area wanted him dead and started a hunt for the child. But his parents were warned by a heavenly messenger who told them to escape over the river with the holy child. Here, he was met by shepherds. The boy grew up and did many great deeds, and was the mediator between God and man.


His name: Krishna.

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Who then, was the god whose mother was told by an angel that she would give birth to a holy child destined to be a saviour? Even as a child he instructed the priests in the temple in religous matters, while his parents were looking for him. He started his religious career when he was (circa) 30 years of age, and surrounded himself with 12 disciples. One of the disciples is his favorite another is a traitor. He and his disciples abstain from wealth and travel around talking in parables and metaphors. This God called himself "Son of Man" and was referred to as "Prophet", "Master" and "Lord". He did many great wonders and healed the sick, blind could see again and deaf hear.
He also walked on water. When one of his disciples tried to do the same, he started to sink - his faith was not strong enough.

We are here obviously talking about Buddha.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This saviour cannot be mistaken for any other. He performed countless miracles on earth, miracles well attested to by bystanders. He healed the sick and the crippled, restored sight to the blind, cast out demons, and even raised the dead! His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. While still a child, he exhibited extraordinary knowledge of religious scripture. He reformed the corrupt and worldly religions of his day. He was crucified, rose from the tomb and appeared to his disciples to prove to them his power over death, after which he ascended to heaven to sit at the right hand of the father. He was known as "the Son of God!" His message is of love and compassion.

We give you: Apollonius of Tyana

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And there is of course the god-man, the prophet, the founder of a great monotheistic religion that still exist today. He preached that there was only one true god, and his teachings focused on the eternal fight between good and evil. The teachings include the idea of the saviour will wake the dead and pass judgment on all. The righteous ones goes to paradise and the sinful straight to a burning hell. The very word of Paradise stems from this religion. This semigod started his career in his early thirties, and had a following of disciples. As a band of monks they wandered around, preaching their religion. He was eventually killed and sent to heaven.

And he was the Persian Zarathustra.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The problem for Jesus is that all these deities are much older than him. You don't have to be very bright to see where the authors of the gospels got their "devine inspiration" when they created the Jewish version of the popular God-Man/ World-Saviour of antiquity.


*Thanks to:

http://www.bandoli.no/
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #250 on: March 05, 2014, 03:58:18 AM »
So, if you have no idea what God is, how do you know you don't believe in God?

You obviously have an idea of what God is like in order to disbelieve it. This is known as the ontological argument.

I am perfectly prepared to provided proof that a particular god doesn't exist.  I am quite prepared to provide proof that my understanding of the Christian god does not exist.

But I have learned from experience that - all too often - I spend hours setting out a proof only for the theist to say "ah, but you've got this and that wrong about my god, so your proof doesn't apply". 

As I am sure you will recognise, not every person who calls themselves "Christian" believes in the exact same god.  Some are 100% Bible literalists, others more into metaphor.  Some believe in a young Earth, other do not.  Some Christians accept evolution, others do not.  Some believe works save you, some say grace. 

And I am absolutely positive (and I'm sure you would agree) that if I put you into a room with another "Christian", while you may agree in the main, there would definitely be parts of Christian theology that you would interpret differently.  That's not a criticism of either's faith, just a fact that Christians themselves admit by giving themselves different names depending on their type of belief.

So these days I only bother to provide proof against "god", when I know exactly what "god" I am being asked to disprove.  If you would like to engage with me on this issue, can I suggest we do so in formal debate?  I logged out for 12 hours and this thread grew 3 pages!

None of the above, incidentally, means that I cannot quite truthfully say "I do not believe in god" - because EVERY god that I have examined in detail I have proved to my satisfaction does not exist.  It may be that YOUR god is the one that breaks my successful run (what a coup for you that would be!) - but unless I know what your god is to you, we will just never know.

I suppose it depends how sure you are that YOUR god cannot be disproved, or whether your intent is simply to be able to gloat that we cannot disprove a vague and unspecified "god".
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Dante

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #251 on: March 05, 2014, 08:03:10 AM »
Is there free will in heaven?

Yes. But, everyone will choose the good. The ones who choose the evil will be in Hell. Picture Alcatraz times 1,000.

So getting to heaven is no guarantee of staying in heaven. Good to know. No one will even have a stray sinful thought, because of CHOICE! That hot chick from college you were madly in love with? Nope, don't even think about her boobies, because you choose not to. Yeah, right.

Why doesn't everyone on earth choose good, skep?
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #252 on: March 05, 2014, 08:14:23 AM »
I've noticed that when skeptic runs into something that would embarrass him, he ignores it and hopes it will go away if he doesn't pay attention to it long enough.  For example, my correction of his misapprehension of the difference between "atheos" and "atheist".  He doesn't want to admit he was wrong (even though it's plainly obvious that he was) and thus, his total lack of acknowledgment or even a basic response to me here.

Same thing with his bad 'refutation' of the problem of evil.  He posted something which was intended to show that the problem of evil wasn't actually a problem, yet missed two blatantly obvious problems with it (that if his god allowed free will, his god still bears the ultimate responsibility for the existence of evil, and that good couldn't even exist without evil, thus his supposedly omnibenevolent god has a problem if there's no evil in the universe).
Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!"  If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #253 on: March 05, 2014, 03:59:55 PM »
I've noticed that when skeptic runs into something that would embarrass him, he ignores it and hopes it will go away if he doesn't pay attention to it long enough.  For example, my correction of his misapprehension of the difference between "atheos" and "atheist".  He doesn't want to admit he was wrong (even though it's plainly obvious that he was) and thus, his total lack of acknowledgment or even a basic response to me here.

Same thing with his bad 'refutation' of the problem of evil.  He posted something which was intended to show that the problem of evil wasn't actually a problem, yet missed two blatantly obvious problems with it (that if his god allowed free will, his god still bears the ultimate responsibility for the existence of evil, and that good couldn't even exist without evil, thus his supposedly omnibenevolent god has a problem if there's no evil in the universe).

No, there are no problems. God is not responsible for evil. We choose to do it. In the same way a parent has the ability to lock his child in a cage for his whole life so nothing bad ever happens to them, the parent doesn't do that and allows the child to go free even though bad things might happen to the child.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Boots

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #254 on: March 05, 2014, 04:10:31 PM »
I've noticed that when skeptic runs into something that would embarrass him, he ignores it and hopes it will go away if he doesn't pay attention to it long enough.  For example, my correction of his misapprehension of the difference between "atheos" and "atheist".  He doesn't want to admit he was wrong (even though it's plainly obvious that he was) and thus, his total lack of acknowledgment or even a basic response to me here.

Same thing with his bad 'refutation' of the problem of evil.  He posted something which was intended to show that the problem of evil wasn't actually a problem, yet missed two blatantly obvious problems with it (that if his god allowed free will, his god still bears the ultimate responsibility for the existence of evil, and that good couldn't even exist without evil, thus his supposedly omnibenevolent god has a problem if there's no evil in the universe).

No, there are no problems. God is not responsible for evil. We choose to do it. In the same way a parent has the ability to lock his child in a cage for his whole life so nothing bad ever happens to them, the parent doesn't do that and allows the child to go free even though bad things might happen to the child.

Complete and utter bollux.  According to you, god made us.  The makers of cars are responsible to replace/fix design flaws through recalls.  A design flaw your god put in us IS HIS FAULT.

Oh, and this...

Quote
Yes. But, everyone will choose the good

is not free will.
...religion is simply tribalism with a side order of philosophical wankery, and occasionally a baseball bat to smash...anyone who doesn't show...deference to the tribe's chosen totem.

~Astreja

To not believe in god is to know that it falls to us to make the world a better place.

~Sam Harris

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #255 on: March 05, 2014, 04:11:11 PM »
No, there are no problems. God is not responsible for evil.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Jer:18:11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.


And just remind us, "Who created Satan?"

Anyway, you shouldn't trust Yahweh, He's a liar:

God Tells Lies
1 Kings 22:19-24 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.  And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so.  Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. 

Jeremiah 4:10
    Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.

Jeremiah 20:7
    O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
    For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

2 Chronicles 18:22
    Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

Ezekiel 14:9
    And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.


So, what was that you were saying about "God is not responsible for evil."?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline One Above All

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #256 on: March 05, 2014, 04:22:57 PM »
skeptic54768, prove I am not the entity you refer to as "God". If you can't, you'll have to accept Me as your god and worship Me.

If this doesn't make you see the problem with your line of thinking (and I use the term loosely), I don't think anything will.
My names are many, yet I am One.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #257 on: March 05, 2014, 04:37:24 PM »
Now imagine if he put that knowledge to good use and actually became a Christian instead of just using the Bible for "Gotchas!"

you mean correcting xians of their erroneous beliefs that are unbiblical is not a good use?  Hm.  Seems to me you would regard that as kind of important.  Kind of a way of doing the lord's work. 
What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Benny

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #258 on: March 05, 2014, 07:43:45 PM »
skeptic54768, prove I am not the entity you refer to as "God". If you can't, you'll have to accept Me as your god and worship Me.

If this doesn't make you see the problem with your line of thinking (and I use the term loosely), I don't think anything will.

I'll take this and run with it.

I believe that there is an almighty being who oversees everything and everyone in the universe.  He created man in his own image and likeness[1], and no creature is hidden from his sight.[2]  He is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see.[3]  All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Him,[4] for He is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.[5]  He is the Alpha and the Omega, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.[6]

I am talking, of course, about Why Won't God Heal Amputees? forum user One Above All.

I pray to Him every day.  I read passages from his book, "The All In One Guide To Worship," every day.  He gives me guidance and strength.  His presence in my soul has given my life meaning.  I have had many personal experiences with Him, and everything I do is from Him, through Him, and in Him.  Say what you wish about any deities you believe in, sure.  But I will forever dedicate my life to the worship and praise of the Poster, the One, and the Holy Blaze.

--

Here's my challenge to you, Skep.  Explain to me why your god is the ruler of the universe and not OAA.

I would advise you to remember that I can prove the existence of OAA, and you will have to do the same before setting up your argument.
 1. Genesis 1:26-27
 2. Hebrews 4:13
 3. 1 Timothy 6:15-16
 4. Matthew 28:18
 5. John 4:24
 6. Revelation 1:8
I'm here every now and again.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #259 on: March 06, 2014, 01:09:38 AM »
No, there are no problems. God is not responsible for evil.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Jer:18:11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.


And just remind us, "Who created Satan?"

Anyway, you shouldn't trust Yahweh, He's a liar:

God Tells Lies
1 Kings 22:19-24 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.  And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so.  Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. 

Jeremiah 4:10
    Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.

Jeremiah 20:7
    O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
    For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

2 Chronicles 18:22
    Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

Ezekiel 14:9
    And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.


So, what was that you were saying about "God is not responsible for evil."?

Once again, you are simply quoting verses out of context. I have repeatedly said that you can't do that with the Bible. Everything must be analyzed within the full context of the chapter, to possibly even the whole book.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Prove There Is No God - A Challenge
« Reply #260 on: March 06, 2014, 01:12:21 AM »
skeptic54768, prove I am not the entity you refer to as "God". If you can't, you'll have to accept Me as your god and worship Me.

If this doesn't make you see the problem with your line of thinking (and I use the term loosely), I don't think anything will.

I'll take this and run with it.

I believe that there is an almighty being who oversees everything and everyone in the universe.  He created man in his own image and likeness[1], and no creature is hidden from his sight.[2]  He is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see.[3]  All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Him,[4] for He is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.[5]  He is the Alpha and the Omega, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.[6]

I am talking, of course, about Why Won't God Heal Amputees? forum user One Above All.

I pray to Him every day.  I read passages from his book, "The All In One Guide To Worship," every day.  He gives me guidance and strength.  His presence in my soul has given my life meaning.  I have had many personal experiences with Him, and everything I do is from Him, through Him, and in Him.  Say what you wish about any deities you believe in, sure.  But I will forever dedicate my life to the worship and praise of the Poster, the One, and the Holy Blaze.

--

Here's my challenge to you, Skep.  Explain to me why your god is the ruler of the universe and not OAA.

I would advise you to remember that I can prove the existence of OAA, and you will have to do the same before setting up your argument.
 1. Genesis 1:26-27
 2. Hebrews 4:13
 3. 1 Timothy 6:15-16
 4. Matthew 28:18
 5. John 4:24
 6. Revelation 1:8

You would be a false prophet for claiming that. Bible contradicts you.
When God is on this Earth, trust me, everyone will know.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)