Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt

[Backspace]

I think chariots were like the cavalry; I'm sure there were foot soldiers and support troops as well, but the story doesn't mention them. As usual, those with the speed get the glory.

[Nam]

-Nam

[Backspace]

Sorry Nam, but Exodus is from the Old Testament.  Imperial Storm Troopers didn't show up until the New Testament - I think it was in Revelation someplace.

[Nam]

Sorry Nam, but Exodus is from the Old Testament.  Imperial Storm Troopers didn't show up until the New Testament - I think it was in Revelation someplace.

LIES!

-Nam

[Hatter23]

I think chariots were like the cavalry; I'm sure there were foot soldiers and support troops as well, but the story doesn't mention them. As usual, those with the speed get the glory.

Actually more like motorized armored infantry. They were the tanks of ancient warfare. A small mobile fast fort.

It isn't a direct quivalent by any means but, but hear me out. An army that had a sizable number of chariotss could on average defeat and army without chariots three times its size in a open plain. Rugged terrain, forests and urban environments by far limited their usefulness. Just like tanks.

[Backspace]

Unless they're iron chariots, then you're screwed.

[nogodsforme]

Strap a chariot to that little furball and let 'er go!

Or did you mean cat furballs?

[Backspace]

Or did you mean cat furballs?

OK boys and girls, lets just cut to the chase, shall we... No pandas, no cats, no sphinxes, no asps. Just sit back and let Chuck Heston et.al. show us how it's done...

[ParkingPlaces]

Nam is spot on. Recent findings by paleontologists show that pandas evolved in warm, sandy environs, and though they now eat bamboo shoots, prior to some unknown but very wet event 4,000 years ago, they ate only large basic shapes. Cubes, pyramids, etc. But whatever happened, only lately did they evolve into cuddly creatures, whereas in the past they had strong legs designed for pulling, thick skin to help them survive asp bites, and sphinx tattoos. Plus they are the ones who originally domesticated cats, which of course they herded expertly. Then ate.

As I've always said, inerrant bible my ass!

[Backspace]

Plus they are the ones who originally domesticated cats, which of course they herded expertly.

And we're back to cats again.  Don't get me wrong, I love cats (the two in my house love me as their servant) -- but like I said before, evidence has shown the cats from Pharaohville were distracted first by the frog plague, then by the locust plague.  So there's really no logical way they could have pulled chariots at that time.

Pandas, sphinxes, and asps possibly, but definitely not cats.  I'm sorry, I just can't go there.

[nogodsforme]

Forget yer Yul Brynner, forget yer Omar Sharif. I have always thought of Charleton Heston as the epitome of the studly Middle Eastern male...right.

Now those horses, they might have been Arabians. 

[Backspace]

Forget yer Yul Brynner, forget yer Omar Sharif. I have always thought of Charleton Heston as the epitome of the studly Middle Eastern male...right.

Yul Brynner?  He was Russian!

[jdawg70]

Forget yer Yul Brynner, forget yer Omar Sharif. I have always thought of Charleton Heston as the epitome of the studly Middle Eastern male...right.

Yul Brynner?  He was Russian!

Sean Connery is my favorite Russian and/or Spanish actor.

[Backspace]

Yes, but can he pull a chariot?

[Nam]

-Nam

[nogodsforme]

Looks like he could pull a lot of things...

[Nam]

Looks like he could pull a lot of things...

You wishin' he pull you?



-Nam

[nogodsforme]

Looks like he could pull a lot of things...

You wishin' he pull you?



-Nam

Hey, Sean Connery is hawt!

[Nam]

Looks like he could pull a lot of things...

You wishin' he pull you?



-Nam

Hey, Sean Connery is hawt!

If you're into old dudes with their own castle. I guess...

-Nam

[relativetruth]

Maybe they used reindeer? But wait reindeer can fly can't they?

It must be that they could not fly at that time but that Santa, much later, using sophisticated technology, taught them how to fly.

I think my story neatly links so many fantastic ideas that it just has to be true.

[nogodsforme]

Looks like he could pull a lot of things...

You wishin' he pull you?



-Nam

Hey, Sean Connery is hawt!

If you're into old dudes with their own castle. I guess...

-Nam

Well, yeah. Isn't everyone?

[Nam]

I actually meant he has his own castle, in real life.



-Nam

[screwtape]

Hey, Sean Connery is hawt!

He used to beat his wife.

[Graybeard]

I was just reviewing the story in Exodus of the battle of wills between Yahweh, Moses, Aaron, and the Pharaoh.  The climax of the story is in Exodus 14, when Moses parts the Red Sea to effect the escape of the Israelites from Pharaoh's persuing army (Ex 14:7, six hundred chariots - all the chariots of Egypt), then releases the Sea to swallow up the army.

However, was Pharaoh's army in any condition to persue the Israelites out of Egypt to the shores of the Red Sea?  The 10 plagues Yahweh, Moses, and Aaron, brought on the Egyptians (but not on the Israelites), left them for days without water, food, and harassed with lice and and painful boils. 

In addition, all Egyptian livestock, including cattle, sheep, assess, and horses were killed (Exodus 9:3-6); so what did Pharaoh's army - such as it was after the plagues - use to pull the 600 chariots to persue the Israelites to the Red Sea?

It seems to me that that Exodus probably relates to a small number of Israelites that were in Egypt at some time and then left despite the Pharaoh of the day making departure difficult for them.

The idea that there were plagues sent by god is garbage, although the decision to leave might have been made or reinforced or originated by a natural disaster during which the Pharaoh supported his people in favour of immigrant labour.

This is certainly not a slaves’ revolt but a small group, bound together by some ideal.

The rest, up until the arrival in Canaan, is pure invention. I would hazard that whoever the narrator was, he had some ancestors who did leave Egypt.

The whole premise that Yahweh led them out of Egypt is unsustainable. As is the idea that Yahweh parted the Red Sea or did anything at all in Egypt.

To prove this, we have the incident of the 10 Commandments when the Israelites built a Golden Calf.

Exo:32:4 He took what they handed him and made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf, fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, “These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.”
7 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. 8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’

NB “gods” This is also the passage that gives the lie to the apologist’s claim that “Elohim” is singular and a reference to Yahweh. This claim cannot be so as Yahweh would not object to people praising Him: He objects to people praising other gods. See also Exo:15:2-18 and Exo:18:11, Exo:20:3, Exo:22:19, Exo:23:24, Exo:23:32, Exo:34:14

[Nam]

Hey, Sean Connery is hawt!

He used to beat his wife.

-Nam

[Boots]

I had an epiphany last night.

My kids were watching Kung Fu Panda (again), one of my favorite movies.  As Po unrolled the scroll and found it blank, he then talked to his father who gave him the secret ingredient in his Secret Ingredient Soup: *nothing*!!  For something to be special, you only have to BELIEVE it's special.

It occurred to me, this is why we don't need religion!!  Religion is an attempt to write something on the Dragon Scroll, when all you need is the reflective surface (and, by the way, it's clear the makers of Kung Fu Panda stole this brilliant idea of a book/scroll being a reflective surface from Circle of Iron, a movie Bruce Lee concieved of but died before making--which is too bad because Daivd Carradine ended up playing 4 parts in it, blarg).

There *is* no secret ingredient.  "There is no Book, Chord.  There is no enlightenment outside of yourself!"

[Mrjason]

IReligion is an attempt to write something on the Dragon Scroll, when all you need is the reflective surface

could be a reference to the [wiki]Zhuangzi[/wiki] quote;

The Perfect Man uses his mind like a mirror — going after nothing, welcoming nothing, responding but not storing. Therefore he can win out over things and not hurt himself

[Backspace]

The idea that there were plagues sent by god is garbage...

But the Bible says there were plagues sent by god.  Not only that, Pharaoh's magicians replicated a few of those plagues (but strangely, the magicians never un-did them).  Plus without the frog and locust plagues, how can I explain the absence of the cats?

No Greaybeard, you'll have to take your logic and reality elsewhere -- we'll have none of that blasphemy in this thread! 

[Graybeard]

Plus without the frog and locust plagues, how can I explain the absence of the cats?

Pandas, the answer is always "Pandas" :thumbsup: