Author Topic: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt  (Read 2231 times)

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Offline Backspace

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Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« on: February 24, 2014, 11:36:45 AM »
I was just reviewing the story in Exodus of the battle of wills between Yahweh, Moses, Aaron, and the Pharaoh.  The climax of the story is in Exodus 14, when Moses parts the Red Sea to effect the escape of the Israelites from Pharaoh's persuing army (Ex 14:7, six hundred chariots - all the chariots of Egypt), then releases the Sea to swallow up the army.

However, was Pharaoh's army in any condition to persue the Israelites out of Egypt to the shores of the Red Sea?  The 10 plagues Yahweh, Moses, and Aaron, brought on the Egyptians (but not on the Israelites), left them for days without water, food, and harassed with lice and and painful boils. 

In addition, all Egyptian livestock, including cattle, sheep, assess, and horses were killed (Exodus 9:3-6); so what did Pharaoh's army - such as it was after the plagues - use to pull the 600 chariots to persue the Israelites to the Red Sea?

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Offline Nam

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2014, 07:13:38 PM »
They used pandas duh.

;)

-Nam
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Offline b.a.worldchanger

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2014, 07:46:05 PM »
I was just reviewing the story in Exodus of the battle of wills between Yahweh, Moses, Aaron, and the Pharaoh.  The climax of the story is in Exodus 14, when Moses parts the Red Sea to effect the escape of the Israelites from Pharaoh's persuing army (Ex 14:7, six hundred chariots - all the chariots of Egypt), then releases the Sea to swallow up the army.

However, was Pharaoh's army in any condition to persue the Israelites out of Egypt to the shores of the Red Sea?  The 10 plagues Yahweh, Moses, and Aaron, brought on the Egyptians (but not on the Israelites), left them for days without water, food, and harassed with lice and and painful boils. 

In addition, all Egyptian livestock, including cattle, sheep, assess, and horses were killed (Exodus 9:3-6); so what did Pharaoh's army - such as it was after the plagues - use to pull the 600 chariots to persue the Israelites to the Red Sea?

I don't like to speak on topics of Biblical inerrancy because people rarely agree with one another on these types of topics :)

That said, I believe the common answer to your specific question regarding the plagues of Egypt, and the 5th plague in particular, was that God cursed the the animals "in the field" as stated in the verses in question.  These would be the animals that belonged to the Egyptian people, and would have been used for commerce, agriculture, food, etc. just as the Hebrews had similar livestock for the same purposes.  Pharaoh sends to see if the livestock of the Hebrews is untouched, and sure enough, they are.  God is making a clear distinction between the Egyptian people, and the Hebrew people and their possessions.  When the people of Israel leave, there is no question whatsoever about who the livestock belong to.

Offline Backspace

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2014, 09:15:59 PM »
So with all the Egyptian livestock (to include horses) killed by plague, what pulled the chariots of the Egyptian army to pursue the Hebrews/Israelites?

Quote
Exodus 9:3 (KJV), behold, the hand of the Lord will be on your cattle in the field, on the horses, on the donkeys, on the camels, on the oxen, and on the sheep—a very severe pestilence [except those of Israel].  9:6, So the Lord did this thing on the next day, and all the livestock of Egypt died [except those of Israel].
-------------
Quote
They used pandas duh.

Actually in the grand scheme of things biblical, that would make more sense since pandas aren't livestock.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 09:20:21 PM by Backspace »
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2014, 09:23:04 AM »
They used pandas duh.

Egypt is not known for it's pandas, but it is known for asps and sphinxes.  So I'm going with chariots pulled by asps and sphinxes.  That is why there are no more sphinxes.  They were bit by the asps and then drowned.

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Offline Nam

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2014, 09:24:22 AM »
They used pandas duh.

Egypt is not known for it's pandas, but it is known for asps and sphinxes.  So I'm going with chariots pulled by asps and sphinxes.  That is why there are no more sphinxes.  They were bit by the asps and then drowned.



PANDAS!

Were you there? No, so it was pandas.

:P

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline screwtape

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 09:32:37 AM »
^
wishful thinking.  Mine actually explains something.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 09:36:50 AM »
^
wishful thinking.  Mine actually explains something.

Yeah but mine is ridiculous and therefore funny...so...pandas!

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline screwtape

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 09:45:01 AM »
asps pulling chariots isn't ridiculous?
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Offline Nam

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2014, 09:49:39 AM »
asps pulling chariots isn't ridiculous?

Not as much pandas. As you said: yours is more realistic since they're in the same region.

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Backspace

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2014, 11:11:22 AM »
Egypt is not known for it's pandas, but it is known for asps and sphinxes.  So I'm going with chariots pulled by asps and sphinxes. 

Good points.  However, I don't think you could have an asp and sphinx on the same chariot team (assuming two pulling positions per chariot); due to the relative pulling power of each, a mixed-team chariot would just go in circles, really pissing off the chariot driver.  However, if Yahweh hardened the hearts of mix-team chariot drivers, they might continue to go in circles until finally overcome with thirst, hunger, lice and boils.  The Israelites could use all the gold and jewels they plundered from the Egyptians to place bets on how many donuts each chariot driver could do before keeling over.

Frankly, I like where we're going with this.  Perhaps it's time for a rewrite of Exodus.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 11:15:57 AM by Backspace »
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2014, 11:58:32 AM »
You're forgetting the obvious post apocalyptic Egyptian chariot team.

Cats.

  • They seem to be exempt from the livestock cull as they aren't livestock.
  • We know there were cats in ancient Egypt and also that they were revered[1].
  • Indeed the goddess BastetWiki was part cat and also a goddess of warfare. (I think the link between war chariots and cats is evident here.)
  • Further to this cats also have a track record of charioteering and have been depicted pulling the norse goddess freyaWiki's chariot.

They are the clear favourite IMO
 1. for their pulling power?

Offline Nam

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2014, 12:02:14 PM »
Pandas would sit on the cats. (meow...cough....cough....ack!)

:D

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline wheels5894

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2014, 12:14:09 PM »
Well, sorry to spoil the party, but I'm going with this as being a story. There were no huge quantity of Egyptian slaves, there are no camp sites in the desert or any other evidence of 40 years tramping round in circles, so I going with this whole story being that - a story.

Now the great thing about stories, especially ones that have been passed down the generations and had bits added on the way, is that they don't have to follow the usual way the world works. Thus all the animals are killed, but, hey, they're all back to pull chariots! I can almost sense the story being written, like one has to write stories at school perhaps, and all the plagues, which were probably pretty significant in meaning when the story appeared, were written and its just the chase out of Egypt. How can the army chase them without horses? I need a quick end to the story,,, Hey, I got it! Pop the horses back - no one will notice!

I'd love to know how many people have read this stuff through and not asked this question. Its too obvious for people to question.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Nam

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2014, 12:25:36 PM »
THEY FOUND PANDA BONES!

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Mrjason

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2014, 12:28:53 PM »
THEY FOUND PANDA BONES!

;)

-Nam

I think you'll find it was cat bones

edit to fix link
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 12:34:19 PM by Mrjason »

Offline Nam

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2014, 12:30:20 PM »
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Backspace

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2014, 12:35:18 PM »
You're forgetting the obvious post apocalyptic Egyptian chariot team.

Cats.

Sorry Mrjason, but all the cats ran off chasing the frogs and locusts.  Duh  ;)

Wheels - you callin' me an idiot?  Actually, in this case I'd be okay with it if you were.  My thoughts on this subject stem from a post from one of the recent theists on the forum mentioning absolute proof of Pharaoh's army being destroyed in the Red Sea through discovery of what one evangelical christian "researcher" said were chariot parts at the bottom of the Sea.

That got me thinking about the effect of plagues on the army, and that led me to the bit about ALL livestock being killed, not just those used for food.  I thought I might ask my church pastor about it, but then remembered I don't go to church.
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Offline Boots

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2014, 01:04:07 PM »
panda bones (so say the pandapologists, anyway):
http://www.pacinst.com/route/wheel.jpg

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Offline Nam

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This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online nogodsforme

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2014, 08:47:36 PM »
Simple, they used the Jewish slaves to pull the chariots to chase down the Jewish....no wait a minute, I'm sure that my inerrant copy of the OT accounts for this somewhere.

Okay, I found it. See, they used Pharoah's hardened heart to pull the all chariots. They hitched that big ol' hard heart right up and it pulled and pulled. Can you prove it didn't happen? So there.

And it wasn't even water in the sea back then, it was air blowing through jello, just like in the Ten Commandments movie.   &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nam

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2014, 04:33:32 AM »
Mmmmm....jello.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Graybeard

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2014, 08:22:25 AM »
Nam's right:

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Nam

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2014, 08:30:20 AM »
PANDA PANDA PANDA!!!!



-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Mrjason

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Offline Backspace

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2014, 09:46:25 AM »
Strap a chariot to that little furball and let 'er go!
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2014, 02:09:03 PM »
I was just reviewing the story in Exodus of the battle of wills between Yahweh, Moses, Aaron, and the Pharaoh.  The climax of the story is in Exodus 14, when Moses parts the Red Sea to effect the escape of the Israelites from Pharaoh's persuing army (Ex 14:7, six hundred chariots - all the chariots of Egypt), then releases the Sea to swallow up the army.

However, was Pharaoh's army in any condition to persue the Israelites out of Egypt to the shores of the Red Sea?  The 10 plagues Yahweh, Moses, and Aaron, brought on the Egyptians (but not on the Israelites), left them for days without water, food, and harassed with lice and and painful boils. 

In addition, all Egyptian livestock, including cattle, sheep, assess, and horses were killed (Exodus 9:3-6); so what did Pharaoh's army - such as it was after the plagues - use to pull the 600 chariots to persue the Israelites to the Red Sea?

I've always wondered, "Say a major wealthy power lost all of its military might after suffering major economic damage, why weren't they conquered within 24 months?"
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline Boots

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Re: Pharaoh’s persuit of Israelites out of Egypt
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2014, 03:50:12 PM »
It also seems to me that 600 chariots is really not a lot for an *army*.  That was all the chariots the current pharo had??

(but I'm not up on my ancient Egyptian military history, so I could well be talking out me bum...)
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