Author Topic: GOD HATES RELIGON  (Read 117 times)

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Offline junebug72

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GOD HATES RELIGON
« on: May 25, 2014, 08:18:16 AM »
I stumbled upon this site while debating Lukvance.  It seems so important that I started a thread here to get the communities perspective.

I will have to admit it made me very very happy.  The old ticker did cart wheels and flips.  hip hip hooray!

Thomas Paine was a founding father. 

God hates religion! 

Here's a link you might find interesting: http://definingthenarrative.com/god-hates-religion/

Here's what paul says:

1 Corinthians 2:1-16
English Standard Version (ESV)
Proclaiming Christ Crucified

2 And I, when I came to you, brothers,[a] did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. 2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men[c] but in the power of God.

James 1:26-27
English Standard Version (ESV)
26 If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

If this doesn't defeat religion nothing will. :)
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline wheels5894

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Re: GOD HATES RELIGON
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2014, 08:27:12 AM »
I suppose that he question centres on how one defines 'religion'. To have even a personal belief in a god is a religion - for that person. So I imagine you mean 'religion' in the more organised way - churches with clergy and so forth. So it would reasonable, in the light of the quotes you provided, to ask what Paul actually did in response to his belief in Jesus.

Well, contrary to hating religion, Paul, apparently, founded churches all over the Med. He organised them, wrote to them, visited them and even collected money from them for the 'Poor of Jerusalem' which is usually taken to be the Christians in Jerusalem. By any standards, Paul created a religious organisation. So, by his actions, we see that Paul hod no sense of even dislike of organised religion.

As for the mythical god? Well, one can ascribe anything you like to him and work with that idea.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD HATES RELIGON
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2014, 09:50:09 PM »
I suppose that he question centres on how one defines 'religion'. To have even a personal belief in a god is a religion - for that person. So I imagine you mean 'religion' in the more organised way - churches with clergy and so forth. So it would reasonable, in the light of the quotes you provided, to ask what Paul actually did in response to his belief in Jesus.

Well, contrary to hating religion, Paul, apparently, founded churches all over the Med. He organised them, wrote to them, visited them and even collected money from them for the 'Poor of Jerusalem' which is usually taken to be the Christians in Jerusalem. By any standards, Paul created a religious organisation. So, by his actions, we see that Paul hod no sense of even dislike of organised religion.

As for the mythical god? Well, one can ascribe anything you like to him and work with that idea.

I didn't think it became a church until it was adopted by the Romans.  The real Christians were annihilated.  They are the ones suspected of hiding the "other" gospels.  I think.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline wheels5894

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Re: GOD HATES RELIGON
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2014, 03:32:07 AM »
I suppose that he question centres on how one defines 'religion'. To have even a personal belief in a god is a religion - for that person. So I imagine you mean 'religion' in the more organised way - churches with clergy and so forth. So it would reasonable, in the light of the quotes you provided, to ask what Paul actually did in response to his belief in Jesus.

Well, contrary to hating religion, Paul, apparently, founded churches all over the Med. He organised them, wrote to them, visited them and even collected money from them for the 'Poor of Jerusalem' which is usually taken to be the Christians in Jerusalem. By any standards, Paul created a religious organisation. So, by his actions, we see that Paul hod no sense of even dislike of organised religion.

As for the mythical god? Well, one can ascribe anything you like to him and work with that idea.

I didn't think it became a church until it was adopted by the Romans.  The real Christians were annihilated.  They are the ones suspected of hiding the "other" gospels.  I think.

Sorry, June, but that's just not the case. The church was happily running along with bishops, priests and deacons as you can see in the Pauline letters to Timothy and in the Didache. late in the first century we even have a bishop of Rome acting to sort out problems between churches. various church councils took place in the years following and, by 200CE the content of the NT was, more or less, accepted. It wasn't until the 300s that Constantine adopted Christianity as the official religion of the empire and by that time the church was well organised. Whilst it is true that the Council of Nicea was rather orchestrated by Constantine as he wanted to make sure there were no disputes in the church, he certainly didn't change any of the doctrines as defined by the Father of the Church. So, sorry, the church has remained pretty much true to the faith of the early church.

As for the choice of gospels, just which gospels have you read, June, that you would have included in the NT but are excluded? Why would you include them?
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline natlegend

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Re: GOD HATES RELIGON
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2014, 04:38:14 AM »
If god hates religion so much may I suggest he sends himself a heaven-wise flood so that all but 6 angels, jesus and himself survive.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD HATES RELIGON
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2014, 07:39:49 AM »
I suppose that he question centres on how one defines 'religion'. To have even a personal belief in a god is a religion - for that person. So I imagine you mean 'religion' in the more organised way - churches with clergy and so forth. So it would reasonable, in the light of the quotes you provided, to ask what Paul actually did in response to his belief in Jesus.

Well, contrary to hating religion, Paul, apparently, founded churches all over the Med. He organised them, wrote to them, visited them and even collected money from them for the 'Poor of Jerusalem' which is usually taken to be the Christians in Jerusalem. By any standards, Paul created a religious organisation. So, by his actions, we see that Paul hod no sense of even dislike of organised religion.

As for the mythical god? Well, one can ascribe anything you like to him and work with that idea.

I didn't think it became a church until it was adopted by the Romans.  The real Christians were annihilated.  They are the ones suspected of hiding the "other" gospels.  I think.

Sorry, June, but that's just not the case. The church was happily running along with bishops, priests and deacons as you can see in the Pauline letters to Timothy and in the Didache. late in the first century we even have a bishop of Rome acting to sort out problems between churches. various church councils took place in the years following and, by 200CE the content of the NT was, more or less, accepted. It wasn't until the 300s that Constantine adopted Christianity as the official religion of the empire and by that time the church was well organised. Whilst it is true that the Council of Nicea was rather orchestrated by Constantine as he wanted to make sure there were no disputes in the church, he certainly didn't change any of the doctrines as defined by the Father of the Church. So, sorry, the church has remained pretty much true to the faith of the early church.

As for the choice of gospels, just which gospels have you read, June, that you would have included in the NT but are excluded? Why would you include them?

I tried reading the Apocrypha.  I couldn't get interested.  I don't know why I brought it up. 

Anyway thanks for refreshing my memory.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline wheels5894

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Re: GOD HATES RELIGON
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2014, 08:11:05 AM »


I tried reading the Apocrypha.  I couldn't get interested.  I don't know why I brought it up. 

Anyway thanks for refreshing my memory.

The various gospels that didn't make it to the bible are not in the Apocrypha either. However here is a list of them. If you have a look at the list you may be able to find the text by searching for the text name itself. I have so far failed to find a site with everything together.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline junebug72

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Re: GOD HATES RELIGON
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2014, 04:40:28 AM »
Thanks wheels I'll check it out.

Going for surgery in a little while.  It will be a few days.  I am only going to post with Lukvance for a couple of days. 

I promise I'll get back to you.

I had no idea the bible had so many vs. against religion.  It's doomed to fail.  I just hope I get to see it in my lifetime.

Tootles
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99