Author Topic: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.  (Read 9079 times)

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Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #406 on: March 03, 2014, 11:44:50 PM »
But if you were willing to be nailed and tortured for your truth that there is no God - I might think you have something worth considering - - you would need to appeal to my highest most humane nature though through your dogmatic determination - and even if you be tortured nailed beaten and whipped it carries no weight unless others can back you up that what you say is true. What authority would you use to make your case? Atheism has no authority there is no love taught in it, no humanity. No teacher.

Atheism isn't a philosophy. It is a lack of one.
I know that - it is leaderless. Everybody who does not know God is an atheist. It has no disrespect. One should know if they know. However a religion has a teacher but followers do not follow the teachings. They justify what they do through book writings. That is not what the teacher taught in order to know.

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Each of us atheists finds something else besides religion to guide our actions and standards.
So do the religious. Its all human nature about the things humans do.

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As with believers, we have mixed results.
Indeed - some know what they know and others pretend to know. Still it is atheism meaning they do not do what God is telling them to do - they do not know God. They have been labelled, Christian, Buddhist, Sikh etc. ey need to practice what the teacher has taught to be a true Christian, Buddhist etc.

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But atheism, which is simply a lack of belief, contains no information to guide anyone to do anything. Other than make worshipping a god seem kind of worthless.

If one does not know God who or what are they worshiping?

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Buddhists are usually atheists.
So is everyone else who does not know God

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Yet they delve deep into the self, etc. and they value such endeavors.
You do not have to be a Buddhist to do that.  Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs also have their inner circle where meditation is part of their personal development. There are many Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs who do this everyday.

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I see their accomplishments as one of many that a human, unencumbered by the lies of religion, can accomplish. After choosing to ignore unprovable and useless falsehoods about various gods, atheists can then pursue whatever level of truth they want.
All humans can do that - they all do not know God, but in order to pursue their higher inner self they need to know what the method is. Theists have taught it. So long as they have no teacher who knows God where is the destination of their attention?

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I've tried to keep it casual. I've got better things to do than get all introspective on myself. I prefer doing things with and for others over imagining that the stuff my brain is more valuable than the stuff outside of it. Life is too short to make up stuff about how important it is.
Thanks - that is true. We only know what we know which is very little. And our minds do not let us know the truth about the outside sense world what chances do we have for the things on the inside? The mind creates many things.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #407 on: March 04, 2014, 12:12:05 AM »
Jesuis

To quote Jack Nicholson, "We can't handle the truth."  And I need to add, neither can the teachers. They try to learn enough to think that the can, but they can't. Other than having a good looking corpse, there is nothing a person can aspire too that is important enough to justify ignoring the rest of life.

Ego trips, disguised as enlightenment, get you nowhere.

It would be nice for all of us to learn the futility of paying attention to the self. Of giving importance to anything we do. To give everything to others and expect nothing for ourselves. But humans are too complex, and too simple, to do anything and be above reproach. Your idealistic view of humanity is nice, but no more applicable than BibleStudents insistence that we value ignorance by removing knowledge from our lives.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #408 on: March 04, 2014, 12:32:19 AM »
Frankly, I don't think atheists care, cause they don't think any gods exist.  And why would a god have a human agenda, anyway?  It's like ants presuming that humans have an ant agenda.
I have gathered the inhumanity agenda for their lack of caring - and it is not only about God it is about humanity at large. Theists have a humanity agenda.

Quote from: jaimehlers
That means that your attempts to say that theists are those who know a god or gods are doomed from the start, because you're effectively insisting that other people must accept that your terminology is the only valid terminology, and it isn't working.
It will work give it time. Mindsets are hard to change.

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Doesn't matter.  If your agenda requires that people accept your terminology, it's not going to fly unless people do accept it, and you aren't going to find many takers here.
Changing mindsets is not an easy thing - People have come to identify with the wrong ideology. Christians say atheists are immoral yet we know that is not true. They say they are all sorts of things of that are negative but we know theists can control their minds. We need a better approach. If everyone is truthfully labelled as they do not know God then the process that leads them to knowing becomes a humane one and that is the theists agenda. It ditches all religious dogma and makes one accountable to the self aware. They promote humanity and it removes the atheists stigma that goes with the present one.

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And just what makes you think that we need your "way forward"?  While I'm up for people being more humane, I don't see any reason anyone should have to accept your "theists know god" argument to become more humane.
It is a title for debate so that we can have a real purposeful debate. All the people who do not know God are atheists. The theists are the only people we have to look to for the method of knowing. This makes the process of knowing a humane one. People keep blabbering on about God being a bad evil twisted egotistical blah blah blah but when you look at the person who brought us God we get some truths. Kings alter books to suit their own agendas they do not know God. Books are not an authority. You can always talk to the man and know what he knows. You can never talk to the book.

All religions already had their teacher. Religious people should listen to that teaching but they do not. Theist teach a humane way of life and it has been ongoing.

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Oh, for crying out loud.  This again?  Look, the point of atheism is not to disprove the existence of gods, it's to show that you don't need to have belief in gods that may or may not exist
Well it has not leadership - you cannot lead without leadership.. Theists have solved that problem of knowing a long time ago. Using a scientific method to make the human being accountable through conscious self awareness.

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And to be blunt, your mind is not nearly as open as you think it is - you keep insisting that theists know 'god', but you say this not actually being one (by your own definition), so you're speaking from ignorance.  You're simply assuming that these 'theists' of yours actually know god. 
I am saying theists exist. Knowing God is not the problem of theists - it is what some of them do that causes problems.
 
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Worse than that, you're playing the "true theist" card, namely, that only true theists know 'god' and everyone else is an 'atheist'.  That's just a fancy kind of special pleading, frankly, and it's half, if not more, of the reason your argument keeps failing.
I am going to give you that. A true theist is just creating the highest human being possible. It takes time. We find people who get some knowledge and start their own school for money fame etc. -- pay me I can give you something as if they can. This is not the way of the true theist and these individuals simply confuse the seeking people of the world for their own gain. God has no need for money to teach his message. A true Theist is that way inclined by his nature with God.  Some of his disciples want the fame, the money, the ideology. They get involved in their own egoistic gain. We see this all over the world. Ego vs humility. Chances are ego wins.

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Plus, it's really tiresome to keep hearing the same bad argument over and over again.
Then join me for the title. We can move on.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #409 on: March 04, 2014, 12:40:03 AM »
Jesuis

To quote Jack Nicholson, "We can't handle the truth."  And I need to add, neither can the teachers. They try to learn enough to think that the can, but they can't. Other than having a good looking corpse, there is nothing a person can aspire too that is important enough to justify ignoring the rest of life.

Ego trips, disguised as enlightenment, get you nowhere.

It would be nice for all of us to learn the futility of paying attention to the self. Of giving importance to anything we do. To give everything to others and expect nothing for ourselves. But humans are too complex, and too simple, to do anything and be above reproach. Your idealistic view of humanity is nice, but no more applicable than BibleStudents insistence that we value ignorance by removing knowledge from our lives.
I hope you understood that it is self realization theists teach not egotistical gains. And they only teach their disciples who are that way inclined. The disciples have little to gain from the rest of the world. Its in their nature to want to know God. Like someone working out his mathematics to find the Higgs Bozon. Their focus and attention is already in them.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Online DVZ3

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #410 on: March 04, 2014, 01:13:07 AM »
Jesuis, there's a reason that they've built and constructed the largest and most expensive scientific device known as the Large Hadron Collider - because the mathematics and physics of elementary particles pointed to the evidence that he Higgs would exist; the device to measure it did not until it was built.

Interesting fact about the multi-billion dollar scientific collider. It was originally planned to try and be constructed in Texas but was deemed a no go by politics etc... Some scientists at the time were calling the Higgs Boson name seemed not compelling enough and wished they called it the "God Particle" instead to better convince the fine folks in Texas. Anyways, it was built in Switzerland instead; a more secular society. 

I have to say that reading most of all your posts here you seem like a person purposely spreading misleading information to convey your ideals. It comes off as disingenuous and untrustworthy just as a person at the front door to my home with a sales pitch. It's not very convincing.

P.S. Yes, PP is in fact correct as well. People who claim to believe in a personified god who cares can't handle the grown up truth.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 01:15:16 AM by DVZ3 »
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #411 on: March 04, 2014, 01:52:20 AM »
I have gathered the inhumanity agenda for their lack of caring - and it is not only about God it is about humanity at large. Theists have a humanity agenda.
That isn't what I meant, and I really do not appreciate you trying to twist the meaning of what I said to fit that agenda of yours.  Really, really do not.  It has nothing to do with any 'agenda', and instead of assuming that it does - which puts you in the same category as many other theists who think they know what atheism is about - you should pay attention to what the atheists here actually say.

Pay attention this time, because I'm going to spell this out for you.  Atheists do not particularly care which god a theist claims as their authority, because they consider all of those gods to be imaginary due to the total lack of evidence that those same theists provide.  That is categorically not the same thing as atheists not caring in general, or having an "inhumanity agenda".  That's your bad assumption that you're putting up as a strawman.

Quote from: Jesuis
It will work give it time. Mindsets are hard to change.
Sad to say, but it really won't, because you're peddling the same thing that many other theists who have wandered in here have tried to peddle.  You're trying to promote some path to knowledge that is somehow necessary (according to you), even though you don't bother to explain why it's necessary, and it leads to a god that you don't have any evidence for.  It's even more bizarre in your case cause you describe yourself as an atheist - yet you somehow know that "theists know god", which is more than a bit silly.  And the only way to make sense of your particular belief is to accept your definitions, even though they're more than a little bizarre.  You confuse gnosticism with theism, and act like everyone who doesn't "know god" is an atheist, and those who do are theists, even though the proper term would be gnostic and agnostic.  For crying out loud, gnostic actually means "has knowledge"!  And that means someone who knows something is referred to as a gnostic.  In this case, a gnostic theist, one who has knowledge of and believes in a god.  Whereas virtually all atheists are agnostic atheists, those who neither have knowledge of, nor belief in a god.

I explained this to you before.  Didn't you even bother to try understanding it?  Or did it upset your preconceived notion of what the words had to mean too much?

Quote from: Jesuis
Changing mindsets is not an easy thing - People have come to identify with the wrong ideology. Christians say atheists are immoral yet we know that is not true. They say they are all sorts of things of that are negative but we know theists can control their minds. We need a better approach. If everyone is truthfully labelled as they do not know God then the process that leads them to knowing becomes a humane one and that is the theists agenda. It ditches all religious dogma and makes one accountable to the self aware. They promote humanity and it removes the atheists stigma that goes with the present one.
So what, you think that simply changing labels will somehow change everyone's minds to bring them in line with the way you see things?  Boy, are you in for a shock.  All you're going to actually accomplish is to get into endless arguments over terminology, and for no good reason besides.  To put it bluntly, atheists don't believe that gods exist, and thus even if you succeeded in changing the term atheist to mean something else, atheists would simply pick a different word to describe themselves, or more likely coin one, and that would be the end of that.  You can't force people to think about themselves differently by changing the words they use.

Quote from: Jesuis
It is a title for debate so that we can have a real purposeful debate. All the people who do not know God are atheists. The theists are the only people we have to look to for the method of knowing. This makes the process of knowing a humane one. People keep blabbering on about God being a bad evil twisted egotistical blah blah blah but when you look at the person who brought us God we get some truths. Kings alter books to suit their own agendas they do not know God. Books are not an authority. You can always talk to the man and know what he knows. You can never talk to the book.
If you want a "real, purposeful debate", then drop this pointless argument about semantics, about how the word atheist means what you think it should mean and nothing else (even though other people use it differently than you), and focus on the actual points you're trying to make.  I don't think you're likely to succeed even so, but at least we'll be past this ridiculous argument about what the word atheist means.

By the way, you are aware that people die, right?  As in, the people who supposedly "knew god" are dead and gone.  So just how do you expect to be able to talk to them to find out what they mean?  You may not be able to talk with a book, but you can at least get information out of it.  Kind of hard to do that with a dead person.

Quote from: Jesuis
All religions already had their teacher. Religious people should listen to that teaching but they do not. Theist teach a humane way of life and it has been ongoing.
What you're saying just doesn't fly.  You're just assuming that these teachers of yours had some kind of a direct line to 'god' and were actually teaching about humaneness.  There certainly isn't any way to tell that, and that means it's foolhardy to make that assumption.  Leaving that aside, just where did you find out that "theists teach a humane way of life"?  You've never actually tried to explain that; you don't even have "god told me" to fall back on because you've described yourself as one who doesn't know god.

Quote from: Jesuis
Well it has not leadership - you cannot lead without leadership.. Theists have solved that problem of knowing a long time ago. Using a scientific method to make the human being accountable through conscious self awareness.
Oh, please.  Do you really expect anyone to swallow this?  That 'theists' somehow use "a scientific method to make the human being accountable through conscious self-awareness"?  That just sounds like you're stringing nouns together to make yourself sound profound, and it isn't working.  It's just making you sound like you don't really know what you're talking about.

Quote from: Jesuis
I am saying theists exist. Knowing God is not the problem of theists - it is what some of them do that causes problems.
When did I say theists didn't exist?  And what makes you think that these 'theists' of yours actually do "know god"?  I'm quite serious here.  You keep making this claim, but you've never been able to support it.  Well, it's time to provide some support for your arguments, instead of simply making the common mistake of assuming that if you just repeat them enough, people will believe you.
 
Quote from: Jesuis
I am going to give you that. A true theist is just creating the highest human being possible. It takes time. We find people who get some knowledge and start their own school for money fame etc. -- pay me I can give you something as if they can. This is not the way of the true theist and these individuals simply confuse the seeking people of the world for their own gain. God has no need for money to teach his message. A true Theist is that way inclined by his nature with God.  Some of his disciples want the fame, the money, the ideology. They get involved in their own egoistic gain. We see this all over the world. Ego vs humility. Chances are ego wins.
Okay, I'm guessing you've never heard of the "no true ScotsmanWiki" logical fallacy.  When you declare that a "true theist" does something, you're basically playing that card - "a true theist does X", therefore someone who doesn't do X is not a true theist.  You don't get to declare what a true theist is any more than you get to declare what an atheist is.

Quote from: Jesuis
Then join me for the title. We can move on.
I categorically refuse to accept your flawed and bad definitions of what atheist and theist mean, Jesuis.  You have not even attempted to meet me or anyone else halfway on anything.  It's all about what you want and what you think; you haven't shown the slightest interest in caring about what anyone else says despite preaching about humaneness (which is caring about other people, fundamentally; what they want, what they think, what they have to say, and so on).  It takes more than mere words to show that you're a humane person; you have to act like it, and so far you haven't.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 02:10:12 AM by jaimehlers »

Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #412 on: March 04, 2014, 01:59:35 AM »
Jesuis, there's a reason that they've built and constructed the largest and most expensive scientific device known as the Large Hadron Collider - because the mathematics and physics of elementary particles pointed to the evidence that he Higgs would exist; the device to measure it did not until it was built.
What a nice chap -- I am sure they had much belief in their mathematics and physics and a hell of a lot of faith in the people, engineers, electricians, machinists, tool makers etc to pull it off. It would be impossible with the conscious awareness of man.

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Interesting fact about the multi-billion dollar scientific collider. It was originally planned to try and be constructed in Texas but was deemed a no go by politics etc... Some scientists at the time were calling the Higgs Boson name seemed not compelling enough and wished they called it the "God Particle" instead to better convince the fine folks in Texas. Anyways, it was built in Switzerland instead; a more secular society. 
I read about that. There is also something circular in Illinois.

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I have to say that reading most of all your posts here you seem like a person purposely spreading misleading information to convey your ideals. It comes off as disingenuous and untrustworthy just as a person at the front door to my home with a sales pitch. It's not very convincing.
Really? - and some called me judgemental. It felt like someone came up to you on the street talked nice to you tried to be your friend and then like a psycho whapp! to the face, Bang to the belly and kapow to the cheek bones. The typical bully type. But hey I am a man I can take it. ( What is your problem - he says dusting off that attack).

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P.S. Yes, PP is in fact correct as well. People who claim to believe in a personified god who cares can't handle the grown up truth.
You just lobbed me in some group? What group? Care to expand on this ESP power of yours. How can I be disingenuous if I provided the books I am reading? The things people say to make themselves look good.  Cheap shot!
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline bertatberts

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #413 on: March 04, 2014, 03:28:35 AM »
Guys I'm as guilty as all of you are for continuing this thread.

However Isn't it time to let it die, this imbecile will continue to troll his replies, not giving any ground. He is a complete waste of space. He twists words, he changes meaning, he has a clear trolling agenda, and we all fell in.

It's time to climb back out, brush ourselves off and go do something more positive.

We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #414 on: March 04, 2014, 04:02:19 AM »
I agree, this thread should be condemned.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #415 on: March 04, 2014, 04:40:06 AM »
That isn't what I meant, and I really do not appreciate you trying to twist the meaning of what I said to fit that agenda of yours.  Really, really do not.  It has nothing to do with any 'agenda', and instead of assuming that it does - which puts you in the same category as many other theists who think they know what atheism is about - you should pay attention to what the atheists here actually say.

Pay attention this time, because I'm going to spell this out for you.  Atheists do not particularly care which god a theist claims as their authority, because they consider all of those gods to be imaginary due to the total lack of evidence that those same theists provide.  That is categorically not the same thing as atheists not caring in general, or having an "inhumanity agenda".  That's your bad assumption that you're putting up as a strawman.
You claim the agenda of everyone who is an atheist. That is wrong - It is really leaderless and teacherless is what it is - it does not help your atheist agenda to pretend that there is something good in it--- it is a free for all without beliefs - it accepts the rapists, the murderer, the fool, the bigot, the homophobic. So lets not pretend it is some humane agenda. If you want to - then tell me what the humane agenda is -- if not a strawman of sorts by your own illogical fallacies. As for theists We know them because they say they know God. Their disciples who they taught confirm their teachings were of God, and what they were expected to do to know god.

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Sad to say, but it really won't, because you're peddling the same thing that many other theists who have wandered in here have tried to peddle. 
I am an optimist. Hope that is not a crime too.

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You're trying to promote some path to knowledge that is somehow necessary (according to you), even though you don't bother to explain why it's necessary, and it leads to a god that you don't have any evidence for.  It's even more bizarre in your case cause you describe yourself as an atheist - yet you somehow 'know' that there is a god, which is more than a bit silly.  And the only way to make sense of your particular belief is to accept your definitions, even though they're more than a little bizarre.  You confuse gnosticism with theism, and act like everyone who doesn't "know god" is an atheist, and those who do are theists, even though the proper term would be gnostic and agnostic.  For crying out loud, gnostic actually means knowledge!  And that means someone who knows something is referred to as a gnostic.  In this case, a gnostic theist, one who has knowledge of and believes in a god.  Whereas virtually all atheists are agnostic atheists, those who neither have knowledge of, nor belief in a god.
You are confused just like how religious people are confused by your definition of atheism. Its common response get used to your ideology. As an atheist I know what I know and know what I don't. However you do not have the right to put me in any of your categories of belief systems. Just regard me as an atheist -- one who does not know God. It does not require you to beat me over the head for reading a book. I posted the names of the books. Knowledge of the books and what is in it does not make us knowers of God. Nor does reading it make us Gnostics, it is not some belief trick. You have everything to evaluate through reading. Theist know God because they say so, Atheists don't because they say so. Belief none has. To label any with belief would be wrong for both.

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I explained this to you before.  Didn't you even bother to try understanding it?  Or did it upset your preconceived notion of what the words had to mean too much?
You know sometimes I miss the meaning of what is being said. My bad. Enlighten me that I am not an atheist - how is it that I do not know that I do not know God by now.

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So what, you think that simply changing labels will somehow change everyone's minds to bring them in line with the way you see things?  Boy, are you in for a shock.  All you're going to actually accomplish is to get into endless arguments over terminology, and for no good reason besides.  To put it bluntly, atheists don't believe that gods exist, and thus even if you succeeded in changing the term atheist to mean something else, atheists would simply pick a different word to describe themselves, or more likely coin one, and that would be the end of that.  You can't force people to think about themselves differently by changing the words they use.

I have heard all sorts of things regarding the definitions- I personally do not like any of them - I am not any label you can give me to put your mind at rest so forget it. As you rightly say say whatever pin you label to yourself I will be the same relative to knowing God.

The way I see it is that we are all conscious human beings and that is where my definition is taking us to be  - more consciously aware human beings. The process of knowing who we are where we came from and where we are going as a conscious human being is already promoted -- that process through a method and through an agenda. Its a theist agenda. Rejecting the humanity of the theists agenda will result in your bad. It has repeatedly resulted in violence of man against man for those who do not follow the teachings.

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If you want a "real, purposeful debate", then drop this pointless argument about semantics, about how the word atheist means what you think it should mean and nothing else (even though other people use it differently than you), and focus on the actual points you're trying to make.  I don't think you're likely to succeed even so, but at least we'll be past this ridiculous argument about what the word atheist means.
In other words deny history, deny theists teachings and accept what you say -- what sort of humanity agenda is that? Deny what is read and what is observed. Isn't that dogma and a lack of critical thinking. We do not need to lie to ourselves because your belief has issues - we just have to look at our human humane agenda and see who is teaching it. We find a human being with a more self awareness, a higher consciousness of the self and a teaching based on an authority - God.

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By the way, you are aware that people die, right?
YES

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  As in, the people who supposedly "knew god" are dead and gone.  So just how do you expect to be able to talk to them to find out what they mean? 
Read any of the books I have posted. A theist always leaves a teacher before he is gone. We do not have to know who that teacher is or where he is. This is a master disciple relationship.

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You may not be able to talk with a book, but you can at least get information out of it.  Kind of hard to do that with a dead person.
I know. The books tell us about God - Dead men don't speak. Successors do also tell us about God. Got to look out for what are their deeds and words are and if it is in line with their masters.

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What you're saying just doesn't fly.  You're just assuming that these teachers of yours had some kind of a direct line to 'god' and were actually teaching about humaneness.
That's right. That is in the books. You read it. Good.

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There certainly isn't any way to tell that, and that means it's foolhardy to make that assumption.
Acts of the Apostles - The ten successive gurus after Nanak. The problems between shite and sunis when mohammad died. The problems with the prophets.There is much evidence. The boddhisatvas of the buddha. Where am I going wrong?
 
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Leaving that aside, just where did you find out that "theists teach a humane way of life"?
Really - True Consciousness as written in these books is the awareness of God. The highest available consciousness in man always comes out of man that if your want to know God there is only a humane way through purity in thought words and deeds. By ones deeds we should know them and blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God. Its in the books. Check this one out The Teachings of K. Singh.

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You've never actually tried to explain that; you don't even have "god told me" to fall back on because you've described yourself as one who doesn't know god.
That's true. I told everyone the only thing I have is what I am reading. Feel free to brand me stupid for reading a book and sharing it. But what I read I post. No hidden agenda.

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Oh, please.  Do you really expect anyone to swallow this?  That 'theists' somehow use "a scientific method to make the human being accountable through conscious self-awareness"?  That just sounds like you're stringing nouns together to make yourself sound profound, and it isn't working.  It's just making you sound like you don't really know what you're talking about.
Makes me look profound and stupid in one - cool? I am drawing your attention that theists are real people who have been real people in the past and in the present and they have had a godly agenda for mankind. That they say they know God they teach it to their students and their student verify that what the teacher teaches is true.

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When did I say theists didn't exist?
By definition that there is no God you say so. Theists say God exists. Theists say life is a drop or spark of the all conscious God. And that the individual consciousness is evolving to know God. When we drop that selfishness of ego and desire etc in mind we merge back into the all consciousness. Easier said than done. This is how they know this is what they teach and this is what the students verify. You definition denies they know what they say they know. It does not even acknowledge their existence. Mine does. To allow you to keep saying this falseness would be inhumane for all.

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  And what makes you think that these 'theists' of yours actually do "know god"?  I'm quite serious here.  You keep making this claim, but you've never been able to support it.  Well, it's time to provide some support for your arguments, instead of simply making the common mistake of assuming that if you just repeat them enough, people will believe you.
They wrote it in their books and they say they do. I have done that via books. Its all I have. I am an atheist what else do you want? Tell me and I can look for it. It would be beyond the remit of the title.
 
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Okay, I'm guessing you've never heard of the "no true ScotsmanWiki" logical fallacy.  When you declare that a "true theist" does something, you're basically playing that card - "a true theist does X", therefore someone who doesn't do X is not a true theist.  You don't get to declare what a true theist is any more than you get to declare what an atheist is.
I dont agree.  I do not play your games or by your rules..how could you define it. What is your authority?
I give you the evidence for this thread. You can read it and you can conclude. What I conclude has nothing to do with what your rules dictate. Why should it? You have no teacher, or any humane agenda. But if you did I may have to consider it. You should know by now I detest dictatorship. If you have a humane agenda then their must be rules but if not then why should I follow your lead?

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I categorically refuse to accept your flawed and bad definitions of what atheist and theist mean, Jesuis.  You have not even attempted to meet me or anyone else halfway on anything.  It's all about what you want and what you think; you haven't shown the slightest interest in caring about what anyone else says despite preaching about humaneness (which is caring about other people, fundamentally; what they want, what they think, what they have to say, and so on).  It takes more than mere words to show that you're a humane person; you have to act like it, and so far you haven't.
I disagree - but everyone is entitled to an opinion. Your idea of atheism is not another persons idea of atheism. A thief could be an atheist - a murderer could be an atheist - It is not testament to goodness or humanity that is for sure. The best we can say is it gives a voice to those who commit crimes against humanity for failing to follow the teachings of the theist. But a theist is a specific person who knows God and he teaches a specific method to his students so that they can know too.
Enough said. Phew. I hope I never have to respond to something this long because I am bored of repeating myself.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Online junebug72

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #416 on: March 04, 2014, 05:43:18 AM »
Nobody Knows God.

People do know God. Jesus did, Nanak did, Moses did, Buddha did, Zoroaster did, Mahavira did, Muhammad did.
If atheism is that none of these people did then they are wrong. The fact that teachers who know God still teach about God is a fact. Atheism is basically everyone else who does not know God but humans who do not know God have the opportunity to learn from a teacher if they wanted to learn. That is what I am offering to the debate. The humanity in atheists do not know but who have that inner calling to know.

Theists fill that void through a teaching of peace, compassion and conscious awareness.

Buddha did not know Moses.  Buddha's interpretation of the Higher Power was much different than that of Moses.  Please explain Why if they knew the same God.

Jesus taught us that Moses was wrong.  It is not okay to throw stones.  Please explain the discrepancy.

I wish for the sake of theism you would tone down the arrogance a little.  Please?

Joy,

JB

I would like to debate you Jesuis your theology vs mine using questions proposed by atheist members.  What do you say?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 05:48:53 AM by junebug72 »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #417 on: March 04, 2014, 07:06:57 AM »
Are you willing to accept that lack of evidence, several paradoxes, contradictions and problems likely means "God" does not exist and that "Theists" do not know "God" -- or is your closed mindedness your reasoning for your dogma?

I cannot accept that --

/end thread
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #418 on: March 04, 2014, 08:31:27 AM »
Frankly, I don't think And just what makes you think that we need your "way forward"?  While I'm up for people being more humane, I don't see any reason anyone should have to accept your "theists know god" argument to become more humane.
It is a title for debate so that we can have a real purposeful debate.

Rubbish.  If you honestly wanted a debate, you would - PAGES ago - have accepted a change to "theists claim to know god, atheists do not claim to know god" (or similar) and we could have actually started debating.  Instead, you insist on rigid adherence to a proposition that - clearly - nobody here is going to accept.

If you are that dogmatic about the title, what possible chance it there you actually intend to debate?

Answer I suspect is none.  In my opinion, this thread is therefore nothing more than preaching.  As you will be aware, that is against the rules.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?