Author Topic: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.  (Read 9214 times)

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Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #203 on: February 23, 2014, 11:20:14 PM »
If you believed in elves and their is no confirmation of elves you will lose your belief, to become rational, but if there was confirmation you will evolve from belief to have faith.

You have confirmation for any religion?
No! Like you I have no belief or faith in any religion.

I can rationalize how it came to be though. Its not like it does not exist that I can put my fingers in my ears going lalalala  la!

I have to think why there are so many religions, I have to understand what are the core teaching, I have to understand who taught it and for what intent?

Once I have ditched the Game of Thrones agenda I find a humble man teaching a simple way to find a truth about the nature of himself.

I read that his evil comes from his negative desires in the mind and his good or humanity comes from his compassionate self beyond intellect and mind.

I now understand that there is a purpose for the compassionate way and a purpose for the inhumane way.

The most selfless compassionate sacrificial was is the path of the Theists and their disciples and the egotistical inhumane selfish way is the path of the Kings and his minions.

I have a choice and a freedom to use it which agrees or favours my humanity which resonates with this statement. "What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?"

According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #204 on: February 24, 2014, 04:43:42 AM »
Okay...Jesuis...Answer me these questions, then I will make up my mind on whether or not you are worthwhile discussing with.

1: Do you have a belief in a deity?
2: Do you KNOW that there is a deity?
3: Are you a theist?
4: Are you an atheist?
5: What is the definition of atheist?
6: What is the definition of theist?
7: Are you two cans short of a six-pack?
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline bertatberts

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #205 on: February 24, 2014, 06:25:22 AM »
Jesuis: I'm still waiting for a reply to this http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,26312.msg601873.html#msg601873 and a reply to my PM. Could you do this asap. thank you.
 
You cant continue to ignore peoples posts, or post up word salad that doesn't answer the question your not that dumb, though you would like us to think so. You are a clever troll well at least you seem to think so. Answer my questions, then maybe you wont be deemed a troll. But  I very much doubt you will.
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline G-Roll

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #206 on: February 24, 2014, 09:07:26 AM »
The most selfless compassionate sacrificial was is the path of the Theists and their disciples and the egotistical inhumane selfish way is the path of the Kings and his minions.

I have a choice and a freedom to use it which agrees or favours my humanity which resonates with this statement. "What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?"


Offline Mrjason

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #207 on: February 24, 2014, 09:14:15 AM »
I have a choice and a freedom to use it which agrees or favours my humanity which resonates with this statement. "What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?"

You do.

I think it resonates better with the following clip:


Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #208 on: February 25, 2014, 01:22:37 AM »
Okay...Jesuis...Answer me these questions, then I will make up my mind on whether or not you are worthwhile discussing with.

1: Do you have a belief in a deity?
2: Do you KNOW that there is a deity?
3: Are you a theist?
4: Are you an atheist?
5: What is the definition of atheist?
6: What is the definition of theist?
7: Are you two cans short of a six-pack?
I thought 4 was obvious. Thought I made it clear. I even gave a definition to the thread so that it was clear. Read the bottom of my posts.
Theists know God Atheists Don't ..... I do not know God. I am atheist.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #209 on: February 25, 2014, 01:54:55 AM »
I thought 4 was obvious. Thought I made it clear. I even gave a definition to the thread so that it was clear. Read the bottom of my posts.
Theists know God Atheists Don't ..... I do not know God. I am atheist.

Your argument is utter shite.

Answer the questions, or be further questioned.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #210 on: February 25, 2014, 02:10:15 AM »
I have a choice and a freedom to use it which agrees or favours my humanity which resonates with this statement. "What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?"

You do.

I think it resonates better with the following clip:

Thanks
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #211 on: February 25, 2014, 02:16:14 AM »
Okay...Jesuis...Answer me these questions, then I will make up my mind on whether or not you are worthwhile discussing with.

1: Do you have a belief in a deity? YES
2: Do you KNOW that there is a deity?  YES
3: Are you a theist? YES
4: Are you an atheist? YES
5: What is the definition of atheist? ME
6: What is the definition of theist? ME
7: Are you two cans short of a six-pack? YES

Strange I had already made up mine on whether you were worthy of my efforts.
As nam would say "youre an idiot. Now go away"
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #212 on: February 25, 2014, 02:17:16 AM »
I thought 4 was obvious. Thought I made it clear. I even gave a definition to the thread so that it was clear. Read the bottom of my posts.
Theists know God Atheists Don't ..... I do not know God. I am atheist.

Your argument is utter shite.

Answer the questions, or be further questioned.
Am I supposed to be afraid?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Theists know God Atheist don't is a fact.
« Reply #213 on: February 25, 2014, 03:17:50 AM »
Because it's nonsensical. A theist creates the religion around the god they also create.
And you know that because you did not think it. Aren't you not making the same mistakes.

Quote
It's irrelevant whether (hypothetically) that god existed before their religion, they recreated it to suit their religion. Which is why I inserted "deists" whose whole "religion" is "god".
Irrelevant because you say so. And you are now the authority that I should believe in you. Any facts you have to back up this line of thinking? For that is all it is.

Quote
You're saying that theists have no beliefs (the same as atheists) because they don't know god. I am saying, by definition, they do have beliefs based on the fact they know their god that they worship around their religion.

I am saying there is a teacher and there is a student. We can verify that. The teacher knows what he is teaching his student. God. The student eventually learns what he has been taught by his teacher via a method. You and I do not know that method. We do not have a teacher. However we can read in books and the internet what they are doing. God is not unknown to them but known in that truthful interaction of the Master Disciple relationship.

Quote
Definition of theist/m[1]: "belief in the existence of a god or gods, esp. belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures."

Atheist/m is defined as[2]: "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

They are different. You're saying they're the same because in YOUR OPINION theists can't know what is defined as God[3]: "the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being." based on the fact it's a higher being; they can't know something they are beneath, or not at the same level. But theists create the religion, create the god, therefore they do know their god.

And atheists believe they are fictional. So, you can't equate the two (a/theism) as being the same. Theists aren't atheists just because atheists don't believe in the god/s. Atheists aren't theists because theism is dictated by canon and a godhead.

-Nam
 1. Google
 2. Google
 3. Google


These are definition by whose authority? Does a Theist need google or definitions for his authority? Why do you think you can know what they know or define?

IMO You are failing the point around Theists who are real people. They know by being taught and they then teach.

My point is that you "think" they do not know based on your definitions of what they should know. IMO That definition does not work for someone who knows. There is a method to know anything in the world. I have describe this many times. If you use a definition that sugar is sweet you cannot really know sugar is sweet. In order to know sugar is sweet requires you to do something in the present. Your point that the definition prove your are right is not a truth it is a statement of falsehood. A theist knows because he follows a process while being taught by a teacher. It is how we all know what we know. We have not been taught how to know God. What we are doing is criticizing what we do not know based on definitions. 
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #214 on: February 25, 2014, 04:24:31 AM »
Strange I had already made up mine on whether you were worthy of my efforts.
As nam would say "youre an idiot. Now go away"

Or, as i would say.

To Jesuis.
You are an effing moronic twat.
Go home, you are drunk.
From Angus.

Am I supposed to be afraid?

Consider yourself reported to the moderators.
Good day.

To every one else here, i am fairly sure this prove that Jesuis is just a troll.

He claims to be an atheist, and believes in god.

The end.
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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #215 on: February 25, 2014, 04:48:06 AM »
Because it's nonsensical. A theist creates the religion around the god they also create.
And you know that because you did not think it. Aren't you not making the same mistakes.

Quote
It's irrelevant whether (hypothetically) that god existed before their religion, they recreated it to suit their religion. Which is why I inserted "deists" whose whole "religion" is "god".
Irrelevant because you say so. And you are now the authority that I should believe in you. Any facts you have to back up this line of thinking? For that is all it is.

Quote
You're saying that theists have no beliefs (the same as atheists) because they don't know god. I am saying, by definition, they do have beliefs based on the fact they know their god that they worship around their religion.

I am saying there is a teacher and there is a student. We can verify that. The teacher knows what he is teaching his student. God. The student eventually learns what he has been taught by his teacher via a method. You and I do not know that method. We do not have a teacher. However we can read in books and the internet what they are doing. God is not unknown to them but known in that truthful interaction of the Master Disciple relationship.

Quote
Definition of theist/m[1]: "belief in the existence of a god or gods, esp. belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures."

Atheist/m is defined as[2]: "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

They are different. You're saying they're the same because in YOUR OPINION theists can't know what is defined as God[3]: "the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being." based on the fact it's a higher being; they can't know something they are beneath, or not at the same level. But theists create the religion, create the god, therefore they do know their god.

And atheists believe they are fictional. So, you can't equate the two (a/theism) as being the same. Theists aren't atheists just because atheists don't believe in the god/s. Atheists aren't theists because theism is dictated by canon and a godhead.

-Nam
 1. Google
 2. Google
 3. Google


These are definition by whose authority? Does a Theist need google or definitions for his authority? Why do you think you can know what they know or define?

IMO You are failing the point around Theists who are real people. They know by being taught and they then teach.

My point is that you "think" they do not know based on your definitions of what they should know. IMO That definition does not work for someone who knows. There is a method to know anything in the world. I have describe this many times. If you use a definition that sugar is sweet you cannot really know sugar is sweet. In order to know sugar is sweet requires you to do something in the present. Your point that the definition prove your are right is not a truth it is a statement of falsehood. A theist knows because he follows a process while being taught by a teacher. It is how we all know what we know. We have not been taught how to know God. What we are doing is criticizing what we do not know based on definitions. 

And this is what makes you a theist. An atheist would know these things; you clearly are not an atheist. Also, the definitions provided (more than likely) were not created by atheists but theists so for you to question the veracity of the definitions also proves you're not an atheist because atheist would only challenge a definition of a word if there were a bias to it, such as "atheist" where, for the longest time, one of the definitions was "an immoral person". What bias is there in the definitions above? They don't agree with you so they're wrong? Do a vast majority of other people hold to your stance? If not you do not have a leg to stand on. Do, in particular, atheists? I think not.

You want me to prove a negative; only theists ask people to do that.

Stop lying to us, yourself, etc., actually I don't think you're that smart. You're attempts at converting us to your stupidity is becoming tiring.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Graybeard

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #216 on: February 25, 2014, 06:36:22 AM »
The problem, as I have pointed out before, is in the semantics[1] of the title.

"Theists know God, Atheist don't." is a fact. which, in full, is "Theists know God, Atheist don't know God." is a fact.

The problem is in the verb “to know”

Let’s substitute “the man who lives next door” for the word “God”:

"Theists know the man who lives next door, atheist don't." is a fact.

In this, nobody is denying that there is a “man who lives next door.”, all that is said is that the theist is acquainted with him but an atheist is not.

If we then look at the Google definition:

Definition of theist: "belief in the existence of a god or gods, esp. belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures."

Atheist/m is defined as: "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

The crucial words the existence of appear.

So let us introduce those words to the amended titular statement:

"Theists are acquainted with the existence of the man who lives next door, atheist are not acquainted with the existence of the man who lives next door." is a fact.

And this is still wrong! It still suggests that there is a man next door, and atheists do not accept this.

Earlier, I suggested “perceive” to replace “know”.

So let’s amend it again:

"Theists perceive the existence of the man who lives next door, atheist do not perceive the existence of the man who lives next door." is a fact.

This is still wrong: “the man who lives next door” suggests that there is a man living next door.

So we now need another amendment:

"Theists perceive the existence of a man living next door, atheist do not perceive the existence of a man living next door. is a fact.


This then becomes:

Theist have a belief, which cannot be substantiated, in a god or gods; atheists understand the concept of a god but do not accept the existence of a god or gods.

This whole thread is dogged by ambiguity caused by the poor use of English in the title. I regret to say that all of the language of the theist is cursed by the same ambiguous use of words such that the words are meaningless jargon and cannot give rise to a reliable conclusion.

We can prove that this is true when we look at the word “Heaven”. Heaven was originally a magnificent palace, the grounds of which contained many mansions and which was built on a sapphire floor. Inside there was Yahweh sitting upon a golden throne surrounded by angels. The word “Heaven” is still used, but now it means “The presence of the nebulous spirit of God, where the spirit of God undetectably pervades the entire universe.”

Now "Heaven" is a vital word in religion but the fact that it can change so radically, confirms that no part of religious jargon is reliable.

If you look at the book which so impresses jesuis, you will also see that words are used, either without definition, in rare and obscure definitions, mean what you want them to mean, or are essentially meaningless.

And this is how language is used to deceive the masses.
 1. The study of how meaning in language is created by the use and interrelationships of words, phrases, and sentences.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 06:42:40 AM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline wheels5894

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #217 on: February 25, 2014, 06:46:41 AM »
Yep, it's the poor use of words that have dogged this thread. I'd go further and say I am not even sure why there is a thread at all. I'm quite unsure what it was supposed to achieve. Modifications to the title fix the statement to something everyone - atheists and theists alike can agree with. I would have phrased it

"Theists believe in god and atheists don't!

which I think captures what is being said. The whole concept of a god is a bit nebulous in any event since each believer has a somewhat different idea of the god concerned such that one might be forgiven for thinking that the only place any god exists is in the brains of the believers, or more accurately, a version of a god in each believers brain as all instances of gods vary by individual believer.

I have no idea whether we have answered anything here or why we have a thread but I would have said the thread was done though I suspect just saying that will add a dozen more pages!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Bereft_of_Faith

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #218 on: February 25, 2014, 07:22:45 AM »
This thread reminds me of some inane reality tv show, that out of curiosity, I'd watched once, and was so bored and irritated by it that I vowed not to watch it again.  However, when I change channels and stumble upon it, I stop and watch a few minutes, just to irritate myself.  I just wish they'd cancel the damned show so I don't have to be sucked into seeing it. 

How can a group of talented, intelligent people even involve themselves in this piece of crap?  Why are they doing it?  Is it a joke I don't get... some sort of performance art?  Why!!?  Clearly the star of the show is off his rocker.

That's it.  I'm not watching this show EVER AGAIN, but it better die a well-deserved death soon, or I'll probably be back with another complaint about how stupid it is.

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #219 on: February 25, 2014, 07:25:30 AM »
DIE!!! YOU DIRTY RAT BASTARD! DIE!!!

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Anfauglir

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #220 on: February 25, 2014, 09:08:51 AM »
Teachers know something students don't"

Tell me something, Jesuis.

I know Darth Vader, you do not (you may do, but for the moment, let's pretend you don't).

Is that statement qualitatively any different from the statement "theists know god, atheists do not"?

If so, can you explain how?

If not, then we may be able to progress.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline stuffin

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #221 on: February 25, 2014, 10:13:49 AM »
This thread reminds me of some inane reality tv show, that out of curiosity, I'd watched once, and was so bored and irritated by it that I vowed not to watch it again.  However, when I change channels and stumble upon it, I stop and watch a few minutes, just to irritate myself.  I just wish they'd cancel the damned show so I don't have to be sucked into seeing it. 

How can a group of talented, intelligent people even involve themselves in this piece of crap?
  Why are they doing it?  Is it a joke I don't get... some sort of performance art?  Why!!?  Clearly the star of the show is off his rocker.

That's it.  I'm not watching this show EVER AGAIN, but it better die a well-deserved death soon, or I'll probably be back with another complaint about how stupid it is.

Practice, keeping our skills sharpened and there is the entertainment value. Granted the last one is not a really good validation for continuing the thread.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #222 on: February 25, 2014, 02:48:36 PM »
And this is what makes you a theist. An atheist would know these things; you clearly are not an atheist. Also, the definitions provided (more than likely) were not created by atheists but theists so for you to question the veracity of the definitions also proves you're not an atheist because atheist would only challenge a definition of a word if there were a bias to it, such as "atheist" where, for the longest time, one of the definitions was "an immoral person". What bias is there in the definitions above? They don't agree with you so they're wrong? Do a vast majority of other people hold to your stance? If not you do not have a leg to stand on. Do, in particular, atheists? I think not.

You want me to prove a negative; only theists ask people to do that.

Stop lying to us, yourself, etc., actually I don't think you're that smart. You're attempts at converting us to your stupidity is becoming tiring.

-Nam
I am an atheist I should know. What amazes me is your ability to know what I don't.
My posts are for rational thinking. Something you claim to be able to do too. But where is it?
Atheism does not mean stupid, systematic lying, immoral behaviour or any negative concoction of mind. It means no knowledge of God. Since I do not have that knowledge I am an atheist and so are you! -- Weak or afraid to support the idea that we can rationale good, compassionate and the source of such teachings. Which is a man. And when we look at what he is teaching has a higher unknown authority. We do not know the authority but we can find the man, we can know what he does, we can look at his life and the method he teaches. It is simple logical thinking. Your point is moot.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #223 on: February 25, 2014, 03:00:19 PM »
Teachers know something students don't"

Tell me something, Jesuis.

I know Darth Vader, you do not (you may do, but for the moment, let's pretend you don't).

Is that statement qualitatively any different from the statement "theists know god, atheists do not"?

If so, can you explain how?

If not, then we may be able to progress.

Thank you.
I have know way of knowing what you know.

But I am intrigued.  What is Darth Vader? Is it something to eat?

The last time we spoke you knew what sugar was you said it was sweet.
I did not know what sugar was.
You then gave me a piece of sugar and now I know Sugar is sweet.
I know what I know through a process.

So I am intrigued What is Darth Vader. What does it taste like?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 03:55:12 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #224 on: February 25, 2014, 03:07:07 PM »
DIE!!! YOU DIRTY RAT BASTARD! DIE!!!

-Nam

Your choice of avatar makes this line all the sweeter.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Online Nam

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #225 on: February 25, 2014, 03:17:57 PM »
DIE!!! YOU DIRTY RAT BASTARD! DIE!!!

-Nam

Your choice of avatar makes this line all the sweeter.

It made me write that.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #226 on: February 25, 2014, 03:52:32 PM »
The problem, as I have pointed out before, is in the semantics[1] of the title.

"Theists know God, Atheist don't." is a fact. which, in full, is "Theists know God, Atheist don't know God." is a fact.

The problem is in the verb “to know”

Let’s substitute “the man who lives next door” for the word “God”:

"Theists know the man who lives next door, atheist don't." is a fact.

In this, nobody is denying that there is a “man who lives next door.”, all that is said is that the theist is acquainted with him but an atheist is not.

If we then look at the Google definition:

Definition of theist: "belief in the existence of a god or gods, esp. belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures."

Atheist/m is defined as: "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

The crucial words the existence of appear.

So let us introduce those words to the amended titular statement:

"Theists are acquainted with the existence of the man who lives next door, atheist are not acquainted with the existence of the man who lives next door." is a fact.

And this is still wrong! It still suggests that there is a man next door, and atheists do not accept this.

Earlier, I suggested “perceive” to replace “know”.

So let’s amend it again:

"Theists perceive the existence of the man who lives next door, atheist do not perceive the existence of the man who lives next door." is a fact.

This is still wrong: “the man who lives next door” suggests that there is a man living next door.

So we now need another amendment:

"Theists perceive the existence of a man living next door, atheist do not perceive the existence of a man living next door. is a fact.


This then becomes:

Theist have a belief, which cannot be substantiated, in a god or gods; atheists understand the concept of a god but do not accept the existence of a god or gods.

This whole thread is dogged by ambiguity caused by the poor use of English in the title. I regret to say that all of the language of the theist is cursed by the same ambiguous use of words such that the words are meaningless jargon and cannot give rise to a reliable conclusion.

We can prove that this is true when we look at the word “Heaven”. Heaven was originally a magnificent palace, the grounds of which contained many mansions and which was built on a sapphire floor. Inside there was Yahweh sitting upon a golden throne surrounded by angels. The word “Heaven” is still used, but now it means “The presence of the nebulous spirit of God, where the spirit of God undetectably pervades the entire universe.”

Now "Heaven" is a vital word in religion but the fact that it can change so radically, confirms that no part of religious jargon is reliable.

If you look at the book which so impresses jesuis, you will also see that words are used, either without definition, in rare and obscure definitions, mean what you want them to mean, or are essentially meaningless.

And this is how language is used to deceive the masses.
 1. The study of how meaning in language is created by the use and interrelationships of words, phrases, and sentences.
I have to admit I agree with you. The worship of words is the problem. When I undertook this venture to express my own thinking or philosophy of me I had no idea it would have been this difficult. I assumed and took it for granted that the words and the meaning in everyday general circulation("common parlance") was enough to make a step to expressing my thinking. I concluded our thinking processes is being misrepresented by our words. When you say the word God I have no concept, but atheists on here have one. That bugs me. God said -- in my head is the picture of some man who said "god" said.

Therefore I tried to express that -- the men who said and taught "God said". Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Mahavira, etc like we do in science. Trying to give it logic and rationale. It is not designed for us to be defeated by words that are meaningless as you purport. If I was to teach you Boolean Algebra I need you to be able to understand some form of mathematical logic. There is a lot of favouritism,emotional bias and subjective self interest in most posts. And none of it is moderated. IMO there is a some bias on here in favour of word salad.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #227 on: February 25, 2014, 04:29:12 PM »
I have to admit I agree with you. The worship of words is the problem. When I undertook this venture to express my own thinking or philosophy of me I had no idea it would have been this difficult. I assumed and took it for granted that the words and the meaning in everyday general circulation("common parlance") was enough to make a step to expressing my thinking. I concluded our thinking processes is being misrepresented by our words. When you say the word God I have no concept, but atheists on here have one. That bugs me. God said -- in my head is the picture of some man who said "god" said.

Therefore I tried to express that -- the men who said and taught "God said". Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Mahavira, etc like we do in science. Trying to give it logic and rationale. It is not designed for us to be defeated by words that are meaningless as you purport. If I was to teach you Boolean Algebra I need you to be able to understand some form of mathematical logic. There is a lot of favouritism,emotional bias and subjective self interest in most posts. And none of it is moderated. IMO there is a some bias on here in favour of word salad.

This is, perhaps, the most ironic post on the Internet.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Jesuis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #228 on: February 25, 2014, 04:44:48 PM »
The most selfless compassionate sacrificial was is the path of the Theists and their disciples and the egotistical inhumane selfish way is the path of the Kings and his minions.

I have a choice and a freedom to use it which agrees or favours my humanity which resonates with this statement. "What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?"

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The business of God? Thanks.
I understand how crooks or crooked people work. I can tell the difference between an egotistical, selfish agenda and a selfless, humane, compassionate one.
I also know the saying a rich man cannot go to heaven.
People like this do not bother me.
They and the Government have something in common. Crowd control.

According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #229 on: February 25, 2014, 04:53:15 PM »
^because you're the selfish one?

Not really a question.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #230 on: February 25, 2014, 06:40:10 PM »
Jesuis, concede on your claim of being an atheist.

Also concede on your definition of both theist and atheist.

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: "Theists know God, Atheist don't" is a fact.
« Reply #231 on: February 25, 2014, 06:57:07 PM »
I have to admit I agree with you. The worship of words is the problem. When I undertook this venture to express my own thinking or philosophy of me I had no idea it would have been this difficult. I assumed and took it for granted that the words and the meaning in everyday general circulation("common parlance") was enough to make a step to expressing my thinking.
Somewhere earlier, I suggested that your use of words was careless and that the title was either meaningless or trivial. 
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I concluded our thinking processes is being misrepresented by our words.
There are many books written on the relationship between thought, speech and the written language. The written language is probably the most difficult thing with which to convey thoughts - it is devoid of tone and cannot be interrupted for explanations. It is therefore essential to be as precise as possible in your choice of words, "Common parlance" does not cut it. You propose a hypothesis and it can only be answered if you have the right words.
Quote
When you say the word God I have no concept,
The Bible, the Koran, The Upanishads, The Torah, Yasna, etc. all contain descriptions of the deities involved. The descriptions are not necessarily "He was tall with brown hair, etc." but they describe the character of the deities - In much the same way that your firends might describe your character by reference to your deeds. To fail to have a concept is a severe failing. It means that you cannot pick up on the words written to bring about a concept.
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but atheists on here have one.
Merely knowing how deities behave and the nature of their interests and laws creates that concept. None of us, or the religious, say that our concept is 100% accurate, but then nobody who described you to a stranger would be 100% accurate - that does not matter.
Quote
That bugs me.
You worry for no reason.

Quote
Therefore I tried to express that -- the men who said and taught "God said". Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Mahavira, etc like we do in science.
The difference is that in science, it is not at all necessary to know anything about Newton, Einstein, Galileo Kepler, Fleming, Bohr, etc. You only need to know that their great contributions exist as explanations - once gravity was explained, there was no need to know anything about Newton - the theory exists independent of him.  Religion differs: the religious are obsessed with their deities. What their deities say and how right they are is a point of argument, strife and war amongst the religious: they are all as mad as each other.

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Trying to give it logic and rationale. It is not designed for us to be defeated by words that are meaningless as you purport.
The words become meaningless if there is no meaning behind them. The words betray the lies and deceptions put forward by the deluded.
Quote
If I was to teach you Boolean Algebra I need you to be able to understand some form of mathematical logic.
Two points arise from this:
1. Boolean Algebra is as good as the understanding and expression of the propositions. It restricts itself to definitions. This is fine in a mechanical world; it is fine in a theoretical world; it is fine where the truth-value is known. In matters of uncertainty, it is worthless. We have already had someone who tried to "prove God" via Boolean Algebra - he failed... all fail.

2.  If, tomorrow, every trace of Boolean Algebra were to disappear, after a while, someone would rediscover it. If, tomorrow, every trace of religion were to disappear, some fairytale would come along and take its place - nothing like the same fairytale - but there would be new and quite different deities. This is how we know that gods are nowhere but in the mind of man.

Quote
There is a lot of favouritism,emotional bias and subjective self interest in most posts. And none of it is moderated. IMO there is a some bias on here in favour of word salad.
You may be right in some respects. If you see posts that express frustration, a wise man will ask, "What caused that? Was I unclear? Did I use language correctly? Did my words convey a meaning clear to all? Or did I just write in a language I understand but should not expect others to understand?"
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”