Author Topic: Ken Ham  (Read 3666 times)

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Offline thunderridge

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Ken Ham
« on: February 13, 2014, 01:38:09 AM »
   I watch Ken Ham and notice he says "Why do anything if you are an atheist? What is the point? When you die you won't remember anything." He must have a god or there is no reason for him to live apparently.
   What is your response to his reasoning (unreasoning)?

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2014, 01:40:01 AM »
Why does anything he does matter, if every day is but an insignificant, infinitesimal part of his life?  Nothing that ever happens in his life will have any meaning in the scope of the rest of it.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2014, 07:19:11 AM »
   I watch Ken Ham and notice he says "Why do anything if you are an atheist? What is the point? When you die you won't remember anything." He must have a god or there is no reason for him to live apparently.
   What is your response to his reasoning (unreasoning)?

Part of me agrees with him but the more important idea is that each of us is responsible for our inner happiness and peace.  Ham strikes me as trying to justify his attitude at the expense of others. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2014, 07:45:37 AM »
When we die, we are gone.  But the impact that we have had on the people around us, on our ecosystem, on the systems that we participate in, and on the structures that surround us, will live on.  Anything that we have created, will live on.

The children we have nurtured, the art we have created, the discoveries we have made, the policies that we advocated for, the friends and family who have benefitted from our support or encouragement or inspiration, the communities that we contributed to, these things will survive us.  As will the garbage that we created.  It will all live on, and be our legacy. 

For me, there is no better argument for living a positive, productive life. 


Offline Ataraxia

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 07:52:41 AM »
   I watch Ken Ham and notice he says "Why do anything if you are an atheist? What is the point? When you die you won't remember anything." He must have a god or there is no reason for him to live apparently.
   What is your response to his reasoning (unreasoning)?

I struggle to remember things while I'm still living - did that mean those things were pointless?

I also hope he's never diagnosed with a form of dimentia, as such "reasoning" can be applied to those who suffer with it. Are their lives pointless? Should we see these people off?

So yes, I do have a response to his "reasoning" - Fuck off, Ken.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 08:03:42 AM by Ataraxia »
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Offline shnozzola

Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 08:05:15 AM »
   The Ken Ham type doesn't understand my perspective as an atheist at all.  Although it probably is his intension, his brand of salesmanship, to put rational thinking down.   I absolutely love life -  red raspberries or peach pie with coffee ice cream, the sound of ocean waves, sunsets over pumpkin fields in the fall,  a beautiful snowy day like today, a Coen Brothers movie on a Sunday afternoon, watching and listening to African children sing and play, the thrill of roller coasters,  a nice hot bubble bath.  Life is so, so smooth and simple. 

   I doubt if Ken really has that sad of a view.  Just knowing that humanity will most likely go on, as long as the wise continue to win the debate, is good enough for me.

There is a play that I have seen on public TV - a comedy, from a movie in the 1930's, called, "You Can't Take It With You"The play stars Jason Robarts.  It reminds us, that whether we want to learn to play the saxophone, or be a latex salesman like George Costanza :) , we should start today.


« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 08:23:03 AM by shnozzola »
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Offline bertatberts

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 08:44:04 AM »
Thunderidge: I don't understand the reasoning behind this statement by Ham, "Why do anything if you are an atheist? What is the point? When you die you won't remember anything." Doesn't he believe there is a god, if he is so confident of that, then when an atheist dies, he will be judged by Ham's god for his atheism, and as such will remember everything.[1] If by that statement he believes the atheist is right and god doesn't exist, then he knows nothing of or about life. Does he!
 1. If that god exists that is
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Offline stuffin

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 09:22:51 AM »
   I watch Ken Ham and notice he says   He must have a god or there is no reason for him to live apparently.
   What is your response to his reasoning (unreasoning)?

Quote
Why do anything if you are an atheist?

What is the point?

To interact with our environment in positive ways. This could reduce hunger, allow for more clean water in turn making life more palatable to more humans. Thus keeping the earth human friendly for the next generations of humans. Other than that he is probably right.


Quote
When you die you won't remember anything.

He sounds obsessed with his afterlife.

Overall, I think he is saying atheist need to worship his God if they want to having meaning and purpose. Actually, he sound perturbed we don't do as he says.


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Online skeptic54768

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 11:42:14 AM »
I know the atheists will hate to hear this, but Ham is 100% right. If you won't remember anything when you die, what's the point of anything?

Caring about other people and the future is a religious principle. According to atheistic principles, it's every man for himself. No one is as important as me. Everyone else is not important. Thinking others are just as important as you is a religious principle.

For example, if you go out of your way to help build a house for the homeless, what do you get out of it? It's not your house. You get nothing out of it for yourself. Why even bother? Helping is based on religion. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 11:46:40 AM »
I know the atheists will hate to hear this, but Ham is 100% right. If you won't remember anything when you die, what's the point of anything?

If you do, then what is the point of anything?

Is longevity even relevant to the question?

Caring about other people and the future is a religious principle. According to atheistic principles, it's every man for himself. No one is as important as me. Everyone else is not important. Thinking others are just as important as you is a religious principle.

These are lies about other people.  Your hatred and bigotry is showing.

For example, if you go out of your way to help build a house for the homeless, what do you get out of it?

The satisfaction of doing the right thing.

It's not your house. You get nothing out of it for yourself. Why even bother? Helping is based on religion. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Funny that you should automatically think about it in terms of "what we get out of it".  Must be a Christian thing, as you say.
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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2014, 12:07:16 PM »
I know the atheists will hate to hear this, but Ham is 100% right. If you won't remember anything when you die, what's the point of anything?

If you do, then what is the point of anything?

Is longevity even relevant to the question?

Caring about other people and the future is a religious principle. According to atheistic principles, it's every man for himself. No one is as important as me. Everyone else is not important. Thinking others are just as important as you is a religious principle.

These are lies about other people.  Your hatred and bigotry is showing.

For example, if you go out of your way to help build a house for the homeless, what do you get out of it?

The satisfaction of doing the right thing.

It's not your house. You get nothing out of it for yourself. Why even bother? Helping is based on religion. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Funny that you should automatically think about it in terms of "what we get out of it".  Must be a Christian thing, as you say.

There is no "objective" right thing to do for atheists though. Everyone has their own definition of what's right. That's why atheism is a mess.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2014, 12:24:30 PM »
There is no "objective" right thing to do for atheists though.

Nor for theists.  All you have is a god that you have subjectively agreed or disagreed with.

Everyone has their own definition of what's right. That's why atheism is a mess.

Theism is in the same boat.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2014, 12:36:03 PM »
There is no "objective" right thing to do for atheists though.

Nor for theists.  All you have is a god that you have subjectively agreed or disagreed with.

Everyone has their own definition of what's right. That's why atheism is a mess.

Theism is in the same boat.

Having God to tell us is better than absolutely nothing though. Remember the Nazi's? It was wrong for Jews to live.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Eddie Schultz

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2014, 12:38:38 PM »
I know the atheists will hate to hear this, but Ham is 100% right. If you won't remember anything when you die, what's the point of anything?

Is he also 100% right with these things he claimed? If you think so, please send me your evidence to defend what he claims in a PM, don't want to disrupt this thread.

"radiometric dating method (and all other dating methods) aren't correct" "there is evidence for a young earth" "Dinosaurs walked with man" "Noah DID build an ark with 7 other family members and filled it with 8,000 kinds of animals" all which I heard while watching Bill Nye debate Ken Ham.



Everyone has their own definition of what's right. That's why atheism is a mess.

Theism is in the same boat.

Like Azdgari said, over 30,000 different opinions on what is correct in christianity. I would call that a MAJOR mess.

Offline Tonus

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2014, 12:51:26 PM »
I watch Ken Ham and notice he says "Why do anything if you are an atheist? What is the point? When you die you won't remember anything." He must have a god or there is no reason for him to live apparently.
What is your response to his reasoning (unreasoning)?
So the whole point of living is to get to the end and look back?  That's pretty stupid.

My life has meaning and purpose to me while I am alive.  It may have meaning and purpose to others long after that, as well.  So while I am alive, why would I "do anything?"  Because that's the only time granted to me to get anything done, and doing that helps me to enjoy the time that I have.  Why would I plan for a time when I no longer exist?  How is this not obvious to anyone with a few working brain cells?

Offline Ron Jeremy

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2014, 01:01:42 PM »
I think it was Dawkins who observed;

'If a god exists, what is his reason for existing? If he has none, then even a theist's life is ultimately pointless.'
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - An example of a clearly demonstrably false biblical 'prophesy'.

The biblical myth of a 6000 year old Earth is proven false by the Gaia satellite directly measuring star age.

Offline G-Roll

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2014, 01:18:58 PM »
Wow....
Caring about other people and the future is a religious principle. According to atheistic principles, it's every man for himself. No one is as important as me. Everyone else is not important. Thinking others are just as important as you is a religious principle.
   
For example, if you go out of your way to help build a house for the homeless, what do you get out of it? It's not your house. You get nothing out of it for yourself. Why even bother? Helping is based on religion. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
So your point is that you (a Christian) performs charitable acts to get into heaven or to please your god for some next life brownie points. That is somehow not confused for a selfish act. You perform this act for your own benefit just like the atheist that I guess you claim doesn’t bother with charitable acts or anything that could be considered friendly. Because all atheists are assholes. A stupid question that is just as stupid as your statement I have though... Are fake christians or other jesus types who are tricked by demons have any reason to help others or care about the future? Or is it just you and your awesomeness?

And because I know that should you decide to reply to this post you will somehow totally miss the point of this insult and twist my words around so let me state that both atheists and christians (you or other demon controlled jesus pimps) all do charitable acts for at least semi selfish reasons. It feels good to help.

Normally I ignore all your posts but this one I hope is a troll attempt. Traditionally I am used to silly christians claiming to have some form of moral high ground while talking down to me on the back of a magnificent white steed. Or that you and your ilk claim that some unknowable father figure (who you have a personal relationship with) sprinkled fairy dust and made some rules and gave us "objective morality" to debate over and to disagree with from culture to culture. But sometimes you just take the taco on a level of near comedy.
Your egocentric bigotry is legendary. And this post is one of my greatest reminders of the truly ugly and ignorant side of religion. Thanks for that.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 01:21:05 PM by G-Roll »

Offline Quesi

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2014, 01:30:34 PM »

Having God to tell us is better than absolutely nothing though. Remember the Nazi's? It was wrong for Jews to live.

Absolutely.  God told Hitler.   

In Hitler's own words:

I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.  [1]

And from Mein Kampf:

And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God.
 1. Reichstag, 1936

Offline Quesi

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2014, 01:36:22 PM »
I know the atheists will hate to hear this, but Ham is 100% right. If you won't remember anything when you die, what's the point of anything?

Caring about other people and the future is a religious principle. According to atheistic principles, it's every man for himself. No one is as important as me. Everyone else is not important. Thinking others are just as important as you is a religious principle.

For example, if you go out of your way to help build a house for the homeless, what do you get out of it? It's not your house. You get nothing out of it for yourself. Why even bother? Helping is based on religion. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Bullshit.  Just stop this. 

I was raised in a home with a father who went out of his way to feed the homeless, sometimes house those just released from prison, and who fought for civil rights and human rights relentlessly.  He also carefully leaned over the shag carpeting with a piece of newspaper, trying to pick up a spider and bring it outside.  Because, he said, it is a living thing. 

My sweet, gentle father valued life, and the quality of life.  And he instilled in me a sense of empathy for all living things.  BECAUSE this is our one and only chance at life. 

If this were just an audition for the afterlife, it wouldn't matter.  But it is not.  This is the real thing.  And if you live your life with an understanding that this is it, then life is precious.

Offline Dante

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2014, 01:48:51 PM »
I know the atheists will hate to hear this, but Ham is 100% right. If you won't remember anything when you die, what's the point of anything?

And if you're going to heaven for an eternity, what's the point of living? Why don't you just off yourself?

Quote
Caring about other people and the future is a religious principle.

You sure as fuck don't care about the future. You think your going to an eternal reward, somewhere off-planet, so why would you?

Quote
According to atheistic principles,

Is there a book I missed containing all these "atheist principles"?

Quote
it's every man for himself. No one is as important as me. Everyone else is not important.

Where do you get this shit from?

Quote
Thinking others are just as important as you is a religious principle.

Oh, nevermind. You get it from your religion. Got it.

Do you think atheists are just as important as you? Even though you think your god hand picked your dirty little soul to spend eternity in heaven, and didn't pick any of us to join you there?

Quote
For example, if you go out of your way to help build a house for the homeless, what do you get out of it? It's not your house. You get nothing out of it for yourself. Why even bother? Helping is based on religion. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Seems to me that the only reason you would do it is for the extraordinarily selfish reason of not pissing off your imaginary friend, because you're afraid he wont let you into the he-man's woman haters club.

And we're the bad guys?
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2014, 02:15:42 PM »
Having God to tell us is better than absolutely nothing though. Remember the Nazi's? It was wrong for Jews to live.

Having a god tell you what?  Its moral opinions?  Hitler told folks his moral opinions, too.  And they listened.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2014, 02:32:48 PM »
Having God to tell us is better than absolutely nothing though. Remember the Nazi's? It was wrong for Jews to live.

Remember that time when you said you'd murder a child if god just told you to do it?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline stuffin

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2014, 02:38:20 PM »
I know the atheists will hate to hear this, but Ham is 100% right. If you won't remember anything when you die, what's the point of anything?

Caring about other people and the future is a religious principle. According to atheistic principles, it's every man for himself. No one is as important as me. Everyone else is not important. Thinking others are just as important as you is a religious principle.

For example, if you go out of your way to help build a house for the homeless, what do you get out of it? It's not your house. You get nothing out of it for yourself. Why even bother? Helping is based on religion. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

First off, I find your post derogatory and offensive, it is slanderous to every person on earth who is not Christian.

To insinuate/claim doing "good" was invented and owned by religion does a disservice to all mankind! Man existed long before (your) religion; cavemen and their descendants helped each other for a very long time before your precious God was invented. Your beliefs cause you to lie. Until you can recognize this you are doomed to hell according to your own principles.

If you think Atheists think only of me, try driving by a local church after 10 o'clock mass when the parking lot is emptying, see who is only thinking of themselves.

And your last statement is a lie and self-serving, once again you fail to be the One True Christian!
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Offline Tonus

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2014, 03:09:10 PM »
Caring about other people and the future is a religious principle. According to atheistic principles, it's every man for himself. No one is as important as me. Everyone else is not important. Thinking others are just as important as you is a religious principle.
Caring about others is a human principle.  Religion replaced morals with obedience; if you do as god commands, he rewards you excessively.  If you don't do as he commands, he punishes you excessively.  Your actions only matter to you, because no one can stop god from imposing his will, and no one can improve on his perfect plans.  You can only determine your own fate: do you enjoy a reward beyond all imagining, or do you suffer an endless and horrific punishment?  You must work hard to convince god to give you the former!

Online skeptic54768

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2014, 03:37:42 PM »
I think it was Dawkins who observed;

'If a god exists, what is his reason for existing? If he has none, then even a theist's life is ultimately pointless.'

This was explained by countless theologians.

God's reason for existence is that God cannot not exist. God is necessary.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2014, 03:44:15 PM »
I know the atheists will hate to hear this, but Ham is 100% right. If you won't remember anything when you die, what's the point of anything?

Caring about other people and the future is a religious principle. According to atheistic principles, it's every man for himself. No one is as important as me. Everyone else is not important. Thinking others are just as important as you is a religious principle.

For example, if you go out of your way to help build a house for the homeless, what do you get out of it? It's not your house. You get nothing out of it for yourself. Why even bother? Helping is based on religion. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Bullshit.  Just stop this. 

I was raised in a home with a father who went out of his way to feed the homeless, sometimes house those just released from prison, and who fought for civil rights and human rights relentlessly.  He also carefully leaned over the shag carpeting with a piece of newspaper, trying to pick up a spider and bring it outside.  Because, he said, it is a living thing. 

My sweet, gentle father valued life, and the quality of life.  And he instilled in me a sense of empathy for all living things.  BECAUSE this is our one and only chance at life. 

If this were just an audition for the afterlife, it wouldn't matter.  But it is not.  This is the real thing.  And if you live your life with an understanding that this is it, then life is precious.

That is a fine opinion for your father to have. But, I have met atheists who say that death is better than life because there's no worrying involved when you are dead, no paying bills, no working, etc etc etc. Not everyone thinks life is awesome. Some people hate life.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline One Above All

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2014, 03:46:50 PM »
That is a fine opinion for your father to have. But, I have met atheists who say that death is better than life because there's no worrying involved when you are dead, no paying bills, no working, etc etc etc. Not everyone thinks life is awesome. Some people hate life.

You're mixing atheism with nihilism. Don't.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2014, 03:52:11 PM »
That is a fine opinion for your father to have. But, I have met atheists who say that death is better than life because there's no worrying involved when you are dead, no paying bills, no working, etc etc etc. Not everyone thinks life is awesome. Some people hate life.

You're mixing atheism with nihilism. Don't.

Well, there is no ultimate purpose of life for an atheist. It is a depressing to have. At least we theists have hope that something better will happen for us when we die. Atheism is just depressing and hopeless. I can't understand why anyone would want to believe in atheism over theism.

Wouldn't you rather have hope instead of darkness?

Imagine someone's child dies. What seems more heartfelt to say?

A. Your child is in Heaven with the Lord singing with the angels.
B. Your child's dead. You're never gonna seen him/her again.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Ken Ham
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2014, 03:54:37 PM »
You're mixing atheism with nihilism. Don't.

Well, there is no ultimate purpose of life for an atheist. It is a depressing to have. At least we theists have hope that something better will happen for us when we die. Atheism is just depressing and hopeless. I can't understand why anyone would want to believe in atheism over theism.

Wouldn't you rather have hope instead of darkness?

Apparently One Above All's protestations that you stop conflating atheism and nihilism are falling on deaf ears.

Quote
Imagine someone's child dies. What seems more heartfelt to say?

A. Your child is in Heaven with the Lord singing with the angels.
B. Your child's dead. You're never gonna seen him/her again.
C. I'm so sorry for your loss.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard