Author Topic: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"  (Read 3389 times)

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Offline shnozzola

"In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« on: February 08, 2014, 12:27:46 PM »
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The battle against AIDS, which began in the early 1980s and has succeeded in finding treatments to control the disease, is increasingly turning to a different phase: the hunt for a real and complete cure.

Latest on HIV including possible cures, but some cases where HIV returns, meaning it may be hiding - in the brain? - in lymph nodes? - in the spleen?  Medicines generally target one specific area.  Does the new "shock and kill" method work?  A company, Calimmune, is using stem cell science with a patient's own cells for therapy.  Sorry theism, no gods seem to be involved in the work being done.  It's all from human funding for scientists working long hours.  Good article.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/in-search-cure-scientists-look-for-where-hiv-hides/
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Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2014, 01:29:26 PM »
Just a simple question.  No debate.  How does Darwinism explain AIDS.  Especially from the survival of the fittest perspective.

Offline One Above All

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2014, 01:33:11 PM »
Just a simple question.  No debate.  How does Darwinism explain AIDS.  Especially from the survival of the fittest perspective.

Darwinism is old and out of date, which you'd know if you had studied the theory of Evolution. Now, as for the ToE, a virus survives because it adapts amazingly quickly and creates thousands upon thousands of copies of itself. I recall reading that HIV creates ten thousand copies from a single cell. It must also spread, which, given HIV's most common method of spreading (sexual intercourse), is not only highly likely, but probable.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2014, 02:39:47 PM »
Just a simple question.  No debate.  How does Darwinism explain AIDS.  Especially from the survival of the fittest perspective.

The same way that it explains Influenza.
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Online wheels5894

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 03:22:51 PM »
Just a simple question.  No debate.  How does Darwinism explain AIDS.  Especially from the survival of the fittest perspective.

Do the above explanations sounds OK, Bill? if not why?

Oh, and welcome to the forum.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2014, 03:24:51 PM »
"Darwinism is old and out of date, which you'd know if you had studied the theory of Evolution."

It is true that I did not study the theory of Evolution.  Truth is the greater value and more worthy of a persons time.

Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2014, 03:27:08 PM »
Thank you for the welcome Wheels.  It's nice to be here.

Offline One Above All

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2014, 03:28:29 PM »
"Darwinism is old and out of date, which you'd know if you had studied the theory of Evolution."

It is true that I did not study the theory of Evolution.  Truth is the greater value and more worthy of a persons time.

If you had studied the ToE, you'd understand why that statement is oxymoronic[1].
EDIT: But, hey, if you think you can debunk the ToE, study it first and then debunk it. You might win a Nobel prize. No kidding. Or don't study it and debunk a strawman, like a lot of your fellow theists do.
 1. Or, as House said, "might not even be oxy".
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 03:32:07 PM by One Above All »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2014, 03:31:10 PM »

"Do the above explanations sounds OK, Bill? if not why?" 

The explanation sounds like one cog in the wheel.  It is good enough for what it is.

Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2014, 03:38:53 PM »

"If you had studied the ToE, you'd understand why that statement is oxymoronic[1]."

I think Truth is Truth and Theory is not Truth.  It wasn't that long ago in time that Darwin was assumed Truth.  But when thought is in flux, the best that it can be is Theory.

Offline One Above All

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2014, 03:43:12 PM »

"If you had studied the ToE, you'd understand why that statement is oxymoronic[1]."

I think Truth is Truth and Theory is not Truth.  It wasn't that long ago in time that Darwin was assumed Truth.  But when thought is in flux, the best that it can be is Theory.

Hang on, I'll get a quote from Star Stuff's thread...
Here:
Science is certain of nothing and requires proof of everything.  Faith is certain of everything and requires proof of nothing.

It wasn't the one I wanted, but I think it should get my point across. Inform me if I'm wrong.

Also, two more things:
1 - You should check the Quoting FAQ. It will make you easier to understand.
2 - I edited my post. You might want to re-read the "EDIT" part.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline One Above All

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2014, 03:48:19 PM »
Actually, I think I might be getting ahead of myself. Define what you understand by "Theory of Evolution".
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 03:52:55 PM by One Above All »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2014, 04:07:04 PM »
Actually, I'd like him to define 'Truth' as something other than 'Truth'.

Offline One Above All

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2014, 04:07:40 PM »
Actually, I'd like him to define 'Truth' as something other than 'Truth'.

Why not both?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2014, 04:11:37 PM »
I meant in addition to yours.  I think finding out what he means by 'Truth' is pretty important, but he can answer your question at the same time since he's already said that theory is not truth.

Online wright

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2014, 04:13:21 PM »
Interesting article. I like the point made that there are many potential approaches to an AIDS cure, and that future patients may have the option of choosing which one suits them best.

Welcome to the forum, bill.

Rather than divert this thread into a discussion about the validity of evolution, why not start a new on the Evolution / Creationism subforum?
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Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2014, 04:28:08 PM »
I have no Theory of Evolution.  I like science and it's understanding of nature.  I do take exception to people using the observations of science and extrapolating incorrectly and then assuming it is a Truth.  In particular, the Theory of Evolution proves the Biblical creation account to be false. 

I will ask a question.  If less than 1% of knowledge is known on any subject, do you think that anyone can be an expert on that subject?  In particular, man possesses less than 1% of all knowledge necessary to fully understand all of the physical world.  Then, he know even less than that of the spiritual world.  From there he declares that there is no God.  Wow.

Then you tell me to study before criticizing.

Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2014, 04:31:01 PM »
Thank you Wright. 

God is Truth in that he cannot lie.

Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2014, 04:33:48 PM »
If the conversation continues and someone knows how to move this chat to another more appropriate place.  That is good for me.  I will just need to know how to navigate to it.

Offline One Above All

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2014, 04:34:50 PM »
I have no Theory of Evolution.  I like science and it's understanding of nature.

So you don't understand it, even though it's easily understandable and provable, but dismiss it regardless. I can't recall the exact name of this fallacy. Would someone mind reminding me of it?

I do take exception to people using the observations of science and extrapolating incorrectly and then assuming it is a Truth.

I call it "truth" (lowercase "T") hyperbolically. Truth is something for math and other such things.

In particular, the Theory of Evolution proves the Biblical creation account to be false. 

Indeed it does. What's your point?

I will ask a question.  If less than 1% of knowledge is known on any subject, do you think that anyone can be an expert on that subject?

Of course. Absolute understanding is best left for Us (Gods). You humans will have to live with being experts, relative to your own knowledge.

In particular, man possesses less than 1% of all knowledge necessary to fully understand all of the physical world.

Where did you get that number from?

Then, he know even less than that of the spiritual world.  From there he declares that there is no God.  Wow.

Define "spiritual". Define "God". Prove there is a "spiritual" world. Prove there is a god. I can wait.

Then you tell me to study before criticizing.

Duh. Because, unlike you, I actually have studied the "God" guess[1], as well as science, and science wins every time.
 1. I'm being generous calling it a "guess", as it is neither a theory nor a hypothesis.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2014, 04:58:20 PM »
Are you a real Professor, like in College or University? 

I derived the number by my own reasoning or it was a gift of God.  Do you think that having less than 1% knowledge allows you to be an expert?  I can give you proof of the 1%.

I see you are well learned.  Reminds me of that bible verse of people ever learning but not able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2014, 05:03:13 PM »
" Truth is something for math and other such things." 

It is also a biblical definition of Jesus and his Father.  Do you want to guess which has the higher value?

Offline Aaron123

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2014, 05:06:01 PM »
I have no Theory of Evolution.  I like science and it's understanding of nature.

So you don't understand it, even though it's easily understandable and provable, but dismiss it regardless. I can't recall the exact name of this fallacy. Would someone mind reminding me of it?

An argument from ignorant, or argumentum ad ignorantiam.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline One Above All

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2014, 05:07:26 PM »
Are you a real Professor, like in College or University? 

No. "Professor" is just a title given on the forum when you reach a certain number of posts.

Do you think that having less than 1% knowledge allows you to be an expert?

Knowing everything humanity as a whole knows makes you an expert on all fields, since that's all that is known at the time.

I can give you proof of the 1%.

Then show me. Put up or shut up, as it were.

I see you are well learned.  Reminds me of that bible verse of people ever learning but not able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Reminds me of just about every self-contradictory verse in the Bible.

It is also a biblical definition of Jesus and his Father.

No; it's not. The Bible has been proven wrong in just about everything it claims.

Do you want to guess which has the higher value?

I trust math infinitely more than religion, as I consider math to be the most perfect thing ever "invented"[1].

An argument from ignorant, or argumentum ad ignorantiam.

That's the one. Thanks, Aaron123.
 1. I wrote invented with quotes because I'm not sure if one can consider math to be invented or discovered. Maybe a bit of both.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2014, 05:32:55 PM »
I have no Theory of Evolution.
I don't think you understood the question.  He wasn't asking you if you had a "Theory of Evolution", he was asking you what you understood the theory of evolution to mean.

Quote from: billbetzler
I like science and it's understanding of nature.
Then what problem do you have with the theory of evolution?

Quote from: billbetzler
I do take exception to people using the observations of science and extrapolating incorrectly and then assuming it is a Truth.
And I take exception to people dismissing the observations of science because they happen to contradict preexisting, nonscientific beliefs.

Quote from: billbetzler
In particular, the Theory of Evolution proves the Biblical creation account to be false.
Except the theory of evolution doesn't actually 'prove' anything.  Proofs are for logic and math.  It describes the tendency of organisms to evolve due to environmental pressures.

This is why you were asked what you understood the theory of evolution to mean.  As it stands, it's a safe bet you don't understand it.

Quote from: billbetzler
I will ask a question.  If less than 1% of knowledge is known on any subject, do you think that anyone can be an expert on that subject?  In particular, man possesses less than 1% of all knowledge necessary to fully understand all of the physical world.  Then, he know even less than that of the spiritual world.  From there he declares that there is no God.  Wow.
Seems to me that the same reasoning applies to you.  Your understanding is far less than that of the cumulative knowledge acquired by the human race, so what makes you think that your belief has any validity?  In short, how do you know that the Biblical account has any validity?

Quote from: billbetzler
Then you tell me to study before criticizing.
Unless you understand a subject reasonably well, trying to criticize it is like trying to hit a dartboard, blindfolded, after someone's spun you around a dozen times in both directions.  Thus, it's important to make sure that you have enough of an understanding to at least be able to aim at the dartboard.

Offline G-Roll

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2014, 05:43:43 PM »
" Truth is something for math and other such things." 

It is also a biblical definition of Jesus and his Father.  Do you want to guess which has the higher value?

Ha, they are one in the same! That’s a trick question! Jesus is his dad. He just talks to himself about himself.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2014, 06:00:31 PM »
I derived the number by my own reasoning or it was a gift of God.
In short, you pulled it out of thin air.  Not very impressive.

Quote from: billbetzler
Do you think that having less than 1% knowledge allows you to be an expert?  I can give you proof of the 1%.
Expertise in a subject is not defined by someone's made-up declaration about how much knowledge they have.  It's defined by how good of a grounding they have in a subject, and thus how well they can deal with things that they've never encountered.  For example, I consider myself an expert with computers not because of preexisting knowledge about computers, but because I understand the subject well enough to fit new information into the framework I've already acquired.  More to the point, when I run into a problem that I don't know how to solve, I can generally work it out given enough time.

Quote from: billbetzler
I see you are well learned.  Reminds me of that bible verse of people ever learning but not able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
And the reason for that verse is because people who learn and try to understand things are far less willing to listen to religious leaders who claim to have special access to 'Truth', when in fact it's only belief compounded onto belief.  By comparison, most learned people figure out eventually that they aren't aiming for answers, but more questions, because it's the questions that matter, not the answers (including your 'Truth').

It is also a biblical definition of Jesus and his Father.
People are ever fond of defining absolute 'Truths' that they don't actually know anything about.  It gets rather tiresome.

Quote from: billbetzler
Do you want to guess which has the higher value?
Value is nothing but a human conceit (and in most cases, value is figured based on barely-understood desires).  Do atoms think having 79 protons[1] is more valuable than having 82[2]?  So I don't care whether you think that the Bible is more valuable than math.  Unless you can show that what you value has actual worth, then what's the point?
 1. gold
 2. lead

Offline billbetzler

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2014, 06:07:54 PM »
"Define "spiritual". Define "God". Prove there is a "spiritual" world. Prove there is a god. I can wait."

Spiritual is the non physical world where non flesh and blood entities dwell. 

God is the creator of this world.  There are many gods but the God of gods is the Father of Jesus Christ in a non Trinity.

I wish I could prove that there is a God and a spiritual, but alas, I can't.  Way above my knowledge.  Of course that is not to say that god hasn't proven it to me.  My testimony would be faith and I know you're not interested in that professor.

Offline G-Roll

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Re: "In search of a cure, scientists look for where HIV hides"
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2014, 06:12:49 PM »
God is the creator of this world.  There are many gods but the God of gods is the Father of Jesus Christ in a non Trinity.

I am just curious as to who the other gods are that you mention. How do they fit into what I presume is your Christian faith?