Author Topic: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code  (Read 696 times)

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Offline Godexists

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The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« on: February 08, 2014, 09:44:53 AM »
Here's a new paper that can be added to the growing stack of intelligent-design articles in peer-reviewed journals. Even though the authors do not use the phrase "intelligent design," their reasoning centers on the detection of an intelligent signal embedded in the genetic code -- a mathematical and semantic message that cannot be accounted for by a natural cause, "be it Darwinian, Lamarckian," chemical affinities or energetics, or any other.

Blog of the authors

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019103513000791?np=y

Genomic DNA is already used on Earth to store non-biological information. Though smaller in capacity, but stronger in noise immunity is the genetic code. The code is a flexible

and here's another


http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/03/a_wow_signal_of069941.html here They identified two dimensionless integers -- redundancy of codons and number of nucleons in the amino acid set -- as "ostensive numerals" forming the basis of the signal, showing in detail how the patterns in those numerals satisfy the conditions for intelligent signals.


Quote
Therefore, there is no any [sic] natural reason why nucleon transfer in proline;
Even with the (sic), this is not English: the second phrase needs a verb or nucleon needs to be plural. As it is, it is incomprehensible.

I have removed much of the above because it is entirely unclear what is yours and what is someone else's.


What's most notable about this paper is the similarity in design reasoning between the authors and the more familiar advocates of intelligent design theory. No appeals to religion or religious texts; no identifying the designer; just logical reasoning from effect to sufficient cause.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 12:39:32 PM by Graybeard »

Offline Nam

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2014, 10:39:30 AM »
I found the entirety of the above at 9 different places. That randi website, and 8 others from 2013.

You're a copy/paste spammer.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.

Offline shnozzola

Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2014, 11:02:11 AM »
Godexists,
   I wish I was smart enough to understand all that.  If these scientists dig and dig, and begin to produce a testable proof that because of some basic level in cells there is a proof of god, I am OK with that.   You know they are digging down to string theory, and atom smashers and dark matter, and both theist and atheist are not convinced.   I still don't see anything that shows it all cannot be random, step by step, elements that built through attraction of electrons, etc.  and advanced to what seems an amazing existence - but only because of so much time.  You haven't proven it to me, but that is not saying much.  But keep searching - I admire your tenacity - by trying to prove evolution wrong, you may join our way of thinking yet!  :)
“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2014, 12:16:12 PM »
Reminds me of that Star Trek TNG episode where they had to do a DNA scavenger hunt in order to locate an actual message (notably, not written in DNA) from the so-called "founders" of life in the universe.

I'll certainly concede that it would be possible to store messages in genetic code - since DNA can last for a million years or more in the right conditions.  However, I do not think DNA used to transmit a message would actually be able to support life, for the simple reason that too much of it would be required to support an actual life-form.  When you add the fact that DNA inside a living organism tends to change over time, the idea of passing messages down in the DNA of living organisms is simply too farfetched to take seriously.  Such messages would either be very short-term (such as RNA codons used to make amino acids) or very long-term (DNA stored in places where it can't be changed).

Simply finding patterns in the genetic code doesn't indicate an intelligent designer any more than patterns in snowflakes or waves or ripples do.  Remember the business with amazingly regular radio signals (with periods of seconds), that were hailed as being artificial that ended up being the natural emissions of pulsars?  That's cause scientists didn't fasten on "they must be artificial" and refuse to consider any other explanation.

There's nothing wrong with proposing a non-natural explanation for something, as this paper does.  However, it needs to be supported by evidence.  And by that I don't mean simply claiming that DNA coding contains hallmarks of artificiality, which may not actually be true.  Science requires evidence to support stuff like this, not merely making claims.  It's good that they presented it in a peer-reviewed journal, but the next step is always to see if other people come to the same conclusions using the same data.  As we saw with the people who claimed that their data showed that neutrinos could move faster than light, and then later had to retract this claim because of errors, a single paper is not, in and of itself, convincing.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2014, 01:36:47 PM »
Here's a new paper that can be added to the growing stack of intelligent-design articles in peer-reviewed journals. Even though the authors do not use the phrase "intelligent design," their reasoning centers on the detection of an intelligent signal embedded in the genetic code -- a mathematical and semantic message that cannot be accounted for by a natural cause, "be it Darwinian, Lamarckian," chemical affinities or energetics, or any other.

Blog of the authors

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019103513000791?np=y
This is not a research paper at all. I would ask you to read it properly. You will find that all it is saying is, "I've got this idea, does someone else want to do the work and tell me the answer?" There are no answers in it.

It is worthless.

It is from the "University of Kazakhstan" and you may read a commentary here: http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life-exoplanets/could-an-alien-message-be-embedded-in-our-genetic-code-130401.htm
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 01:39:53 PM by Graybeard »
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Online nogodsforme

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2014, 05:33:10 PM »
I wonder if Godexists is willing to bet his life on anything else "scientific" that comes out of the "University of Kazakhstan". Which does not appear to actually exist. Maybe I blinked and missed it in perusing this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Kazakhstan
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2014, 06:25:24 PM »
It actually does exist; there's a website for it.

http://www.kaznu.kz/en/146/page

Online nogodsforme

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2014, 07:12:57 PM »
It actually does exist; there's a website for it.

http://www.kaznu.kz/en/146/page

I stand corrected, if that is the institution referenced in the article.

I read through some of the website, and I am actually impressed that the teachers and students of Kazakhstan are trying to do real science under some, shall we way, serious constraints. As a fellow academic, I sympathize with folks who are constantly under scrutiny-- this school was founded in 1934 and was supervised by Soviet commissars until the 1990's after which time it came under control of Muslim leaders.

The school was originally named for a Communist Party official. It is telling that the name was recently changed to a 10th century Muslim scholar from the period when the Islamic world was the leader in science and medicine. Yes, people. I said 10th century.

I am sure that any research performed there will be free of the ideological and financial pressure that academics in the US and Europe are subject to. That is surely why ID is being pursued there in Kazakhstan, home of the liberal arts and sciences, rather than in the rigidly controlled goosestepping research universities elsewhere. Draw your own conclusions. :angel:
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online lotanddaughters

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2014, 08:04:36 PM »
Here's a new paper that can be added to the growing stack of intelligent-design articles in peer-reviewed journals. Even though the authors do not use the phrase "intelligent design," their reasoning centers on the detection of an intelligent signal embedded in the genetic code -- a mathematical and semantic message that cannot be accounted for by a natural cause, "be it Darwinian, Lamarckian," chemical affinities or energetics, or any other.

If this bullshit was real, it would be all over the news until it was proven false, or after a long period of acceptance, eased its way into the normal body of accepted knowledge. Until then, there wouldn't even be a weather report or a traffic report. This would be the constant conversation of the entire planet.

The fact that I have never even heard of this stupid shit until I read your stupid post caused me to automatically dismiss it(and you, you dumb motherfucker) as horseshit.
Enough with your bullshit.
. . . Mr. Friday . . . that post really is golden.

Online nogodsforme

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2014, 08:08:21 PM »
Here's a new paper that can be added to the growing stack of intelligent-design articles in peer-reviewed journals. Even though the authors do not use the phrase "intelligent design," their reasoning centers on the detection of an intelligent signal embedded in the genetic code -- a mathematical and semantic message that cannot be accounted for by a natural cause, "be it Darwinian, Lamarckian," chemical affinities or energetics, or any other.

If this bullshit was real, it would be all over the news until it was proven false, or after a long period of acceptance, eased its way into the normal body of accepted knowledge. Until then, there wouldn't even be a weather report or a traffic report. This would be the constant conversation of the entire planet.

The fact that I have never even heard of this stupid shit until I read your stupid post caused me to automatically dismiss it(and you, you dumb motherfucker) as horseshit.

Say what you really mean, l and d. Don't hold back.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline kcrady

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2014, 08:19:32 PM »
What's most notable about this paper is the similarity in design reasoning between the authors and the more familiar advocates of intelligent design theory. No appeals to religion or religious texts; no identifying the designer

Whatever gives you the idea that it would be "the" designer, singular?  Most design projects are the products of teams.  As an ID advocate, would you agree to the teaching of Intelligent Design "theory" on the condition that the claimed intelligent agency must be referred to as "the designers," plural?
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline Graybeard

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2014, 09:47:43 AM »
Yeah, OK, Jesus and the Holy Spirit helped too... : )
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline Jag

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2014, 12:42:50 PM »
Oh look! There's more!  :o

 I'd like to make the same request here that I posted in this other thread.

Please explain to me, in simple language that I can understand, what this means, point by point. Dumb it down so ordinary people like me can make sense of the argument(s?) being made. Thanks.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Nam

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2014, 03:25:20 PM »
Yeah, OK, Jesus and the Holy Spirit helped too... : )

Satan, too! Satan too! I mean, if you think about it: he has his horns in everything.

;)

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.

Offline Nam

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Re: The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2014, 03:26:35 PM »
Oh look! There's more!  :o

 I'd like to make the same request here that I posted in this other thread.

Please explain to me, in simple language that I can understand, what this means, point by point. Dumb it down so ordinary people like me can make sense of the argument(s?) being made. Thanks.

You. Ordinary? Pssha.

;)

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.