Author Topic: Trolling questions  (Read 2117 times)

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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Trolling questions
« on: February 04, 2014, 09:31:18 PM »
Are there any studies on the psychology of an internet troll?

Do atheists ever troll at Christian websites?

What is the criteria for deciding if an individual is a troll? 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2014, 09:39:25 PM »
Check the source list at the bottom of the Wikipedia definition.  Some of them may refer to studies.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Nam

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2014, 09:42:26 PM »
Are there any studies on the psychology of an internet troll?

Do atheists ever troll at Christian websites?

What is the criteria for deciding if an individual is a troll? 

As always,

OldChurchGuy

Atheists usually get banned from Christian websites when they are revealed to be atheists. Whether pretending to be, or not. I've been 100% respectful at every Christian website I've ever been a member of (not being me) and I've been banned from them all. Never used profanity, called anyone names, never was confrontational, or negative at all: banned from them all. I am a member of a Muslim forum since 2005, I think, and their rules are explicit toward non-Muslims, and I follow them, never even been warned. I once was banned from one Christian website before I even joined. They do not care for atheists, and those that allow atheists usually heavily restrict them. At one I was banned at, I found out they routinely banned atheists that they restricted in one area not because of anything they said but because of an "atheist quota". When an atheist joined, an atheist was banned.

You want to find these websites just go to Google, register as an atheist, pretend you are one and see how long you last. I think I lasted about four months at one or two.

Troll statistics: I don't know.

-Nam
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 09:45:08 PM by Nam »
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2014, 09:51:33 PM »
Are there any studies on the psychology of an internet troll?

Do atheists ever troll at Christian websites?

What is the criteria for deciding if an individual is a troll? 

As always,

OldChurchGuy

Atheists usually get banned from Christian websites when they are revealed to be atheists. Whether pretending to be, or not. I've been 100% respectful at every Christian website I've ever been a member of (not being me) and I've been banned from them all. Never used profanity, called anyone names, never was confrontational, or negative at all: banned from them all. I am a member of a Muslim forum since 2005, I think, and their rules are explicit toward non-Muslims, and I follow them, never even been warned. I once was banned from one Christian website before I even joined. They do not care for atheists, and those that allow atheists usually heavily restrict them. At one I was banned at, I found out they routinely banned atheists that they restricted in one area not because of anything they said but because of an "atheist quota". When an atheist joined, an atheist was banned.

You want to find these websites just go to Google, register as an atheist, pretend you are one and see how long you last. I think I lasted about four months at one or two.

Troll statistics: I don't know.

-Nam

Interesting.  I was a member of a Christian website and wound up on the Evangelical group.  I enjoyed it and kept asking questions.  New owners came on and I was told that since I had registered as a Presbyterian, I was banned from the Evangelical group.  When I asked who I could interact with I was sent to the Calvinist group.  Now THAT was an odd little group.

I admit that until getting involved on this website I was wary of atheists.  The curse of stereotyping the unknown.

As always,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline Nam

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2014, 09:56:45 PM »
OCG,

Yeah, I was going to mention that but I figured you already knew. I was a member of a Catholic forum who was inviting to all protestants, atheists, etc., and it got a new owner and got rid of everyone excluding Roman Catholics (including other sects of Catholics). That was 9 years ago, and I didn't really think anything of it until I started joining other websites then it became like a game but then I got bored and stopped.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2014, 10:09:58 PM »
Check the source list at the bottom of the Wikipedia definition.  Some of them may refer to studies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Thanks.

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

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Online jynnan tonnix

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2014, 10:10:17 PM »
I've gotten banned from a Christian board as well. Whether or not I was trolling depends on your definition, I guess. I never got confrontational, but I suppose I misrepresented myself by claiming I was a Christian with questions. I don't think anyone ever called me out as an atheist, per se, but evidently they didn't like the questions in any case, and I was told I was no longer welcome.

This was some years ago, though, and I don't recall the site or the exact conversation. I think I lasted two or three days there.

Thing is, unless you misrepresent yourself, you won't even get your foot in the door to discuss anything with them. Your intent may by 100% respectful and questions genuine, but if you let them know off the bat that you are coming from an atheist point of view they will cut you off at the first post.

I'm sure there are some boards which allow a more varied membership, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

Offline Nam

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2014, 11:01:10 PM »
It's funny, atheist websites are more welcoming than Christian ones. I mean, if they are evangelicals you'd think the "atheist" is the people they want to convert them. It seems a no-brainer. But no, it seems they can only do that if they join an atheist website but then they probably wouldn't either because to be a member of a godless place would be hell for them and those they know.

OCG, magicmiles and those like them are the exception--those like skeptic, I feel, could be the "troll". They have only one purpose in being here: we're wrong they're not[1].

-Nam
 1. those like skeptic
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 11:03:59 PM by Nam »
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline penfold

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2014, 02:59:05 AM »
What is the criteria for deciding if an individual is a troll? 

To be honest the kind of trolling and abuse on websites like this is fairly limited; at the end of the day while we may all enjoy discussions here none of us have a deep emotional investment and so potential for real harm is limited. So most of what is called trolling here is really just ordinary rudeness (not to minimize the upset that it does cause - I, for one, have taken a couple of extended hiatuses from this site as a consequence).

Last year at the school I work at we had a real problem with a site called Ask.fm. This is a site where, once you've registered, people can anonymously, 'ask you anything'. Some of our young students were going onto this site - it all came to a head when one 13yo girl was repeatedly told that she was ugly and should kill herself to "make the school prettier". It strikes me that this kind of personalized deliberate attempt to harm is what marks the line between being rude and being a troll.

The question that has always bugged me is whether:

(a) these people are generally decent sorts who put in the context of anonymity and with a 'distance' from the effects of their harm behave in an uncharacteristically horrid manner;

or

(b) these people are bona-fide gaping arseholes who in the social context of everyday life hide their demons from view.


Are there any studies on the psychology of an internet troll?

I don't know of any, though I am sure there are and googlescholar can find them. However I am reminded of a Milgram experiment variant. The traditional Milgram experiment shows that 64% of us will administer a lethal electric shock to a stranger in the next room if told to do so by an authority figure. The variant placed the 'victim' in the same room; the number who delivered the lethal electric shock dropped to below 20%. There is also a version of the infamous 'trolley problem' questions where instead of 'pulling a switch' to divert a train (saving two lives at the cost of one) you 'push a man off a bridge' to stop the train (saving two lives at the cost of one). The interesting thing is that people generally say they would do the former and not the latter despite the 'lives lost calculus' being the same.

So following these results my guess is that lack of proximity to the harm caused is an important factor in trolling.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 03:43:35 AM by penfold »
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away." - P.K.D.

Offline Nam

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2014, 04:00:38 AM »
Quote
(b) these people are bona-fide gaping arseholes who in the social context of everyday life hide their demons from view.

I was going to say this is me but I am actually worse in person[1] but not as bad as I was in the past. That guy was scary.

-Nam
 1. you only get words on a screen here
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Backspace

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2014, 08:10:39 AM »
I think there are atheist trolls all around us.  IMO, being an internet troll is likely based on a lack of self esteem, or some other lacking personality trait, rather than ones stance on religion (or lack of it).  Several of the news blogs I frequent have atheist trolls (as well as religious trolls).

Being banned from themed internet forums isn't limited to religious sites.  I frequent several gun enthusiast forums (yes, I target shoot as a hobby), most of which are rampant with government conspiracy theorists.  On a couple of sites I attempted to inject factual information to help calm fears of impending gun confiscation doom, and was banned for not being sufficiently 'patriotic'. &)
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2014, 08:21:05 AM »
Are there any studies on the psychology of an internet troll?
Probably.

Quote
Do atheists ever troll at Christian websites?
Yes, every Christian website has been trolled at one time or another.

Quote
What is the criteria for deciding if an individual is a troll?
This is exceptionally difficult. See Poe's lawWiki which states that

Quote
Poe's law, in broader form, is:

    Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing.[2]

The core of Poe's law is that a parody of something extreme by nature becomes impossible to differentiate from sincere extremism. A corollary of Poe's law is the reverse phenomenon: sincere fundamentalist beliefs can be mistaken for a parody of those beliefs.[2]

I suppose I better ask: "Why do you ask?" : )
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 08:25:31 AM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2014, 08:57:42 AM »
Are there any studies on the psychology of an internet troll?
Probably.

Quote
Do atheists ever troll at Christian websites?
Yes, every Christian website has been trolled at one time or another.

Quote
What is the criteria for deciding if an individual is a troll?
This is exceptionally difficult. See Poe's lawWiki which states that

Quote
Poe's law, in broader form, is:

    Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing.[2]

The core of Poe's law is that a parody of something extreme by nature becomes impossible to differentiate from sincere extremism. A corollary of Poe's law is the reverse phenomenon: sincere fundamentalist beliefs can be mistaken for a parody of those beliefs.[2]

I suppose I better ask: "Why do you ask?" : )

I enjoy this website very much and find myself feeling irritated when "trolls" appear.  Then I am reminded of a school of thought I embrace which is that people become angry when they perceive they have lost control of a situation. (I believe that recollection is God thumping my head; no proof; just a belief )

For me, that usually means I don't fully understand the issue.  So, since trolls tend to anger me, it means I really don't understand them.  Hence the questions. 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2014, 10:39:47 AM »
I though it were possible that you had a site upon which a suspected troll had appeared with a question like, “I am 12 years old and from Louisiana, can I ask you if Noah took woodworms onto the ark?” : )

As for “Then I am reminded of a school of thought I embrace which is that people become angry when they perceive they have lost control of a situation.”

This is the purpose of the troll. He (and it usually is a ‘he’) howls with laughter as the victim becomes increasingly angry. However, a first-class troll will play his victim like a well-tuned violin, keeping them on the edge of snapping with a series of what are apparently innocent questions or statements.

Other tricks are
To purposely misunderstand the victim
Take issue with only the unimportant part of a statement or example.
Ask for impossibly large amounts of data or obscure facts and then ignore the answers or, if the victim objects, say he is making things up.
Give replies that are the credible yet wrong arguments and then make the victim run through disproving, for example, Anselm’s proof of God, whilst objecting or asking questions at every possible point.
To take an extreme example and support it as if it were the most natural thing in the world.
Asking outrageous questions in an apparently genuine manner.
Propose, with arguments, an idea known to be directly opposed to the purposes of the site as if it would be an excellent idea.
Use of all the fallacies known to mankind.

To get an idea of the intellectual level of some people, the websitehttp://www.fstdt.com/Top100.aspx is extracts from genuine fundamentalist posts, but just look at the standard of the arguments: they are impossible to distinguish from the first-class atheist troll.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2014, 10:51:31 AM »
If you hold a position other than one you genuinely believe in to provoke a response(other than perhaps an April's fool joke), you are a troll.

That's my basic definition. And yes Poe's law certainly applies.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2014, 09:15:50 AM »
There are different types of troll. You find that out on a site which has great personal investment, but no moderation.

This site currently has no real trolls, because the moderators just milk the trolls to create content, and kill them off, when they get tiresome.

When you are on a site that people live on, the whole day, as a social medium, and there is no moderation, an infuriating troll ecology builds up. The most head-banging ones obviously have mental health problems. They just keep banging their tragic deluded cripe out. This causes various members to commit hari kari, and vow to never come back, unless so-and-so is removed, somehow. Then there are the ones who are idealistic social crusaders, and you can sort of see their POV, and you would ordinarily agree with them, but they just unconsciously like rubbing everyone up the wrong way by taking the unnecessary moral high ground on every issue, including their own victimisation. The next type is the oblivious attention whore, who thrives on abuse, and enjoys sock puppeting, and sending psycho threats to the site owner.

That covers the main types of psycho troll. What they have in common, is they absolutely will not go away (in a non-moderated environment)

The 4th type of troll is the deliberate stirrer, and starter of flame wars. They are much less common. They have self awareness.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Nam

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2014, 05:04:24 PM »
My favorite troll (and I have family members like this) is the one who starts the argument, knows they started the argument, and then play the victim after the argument.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Jesuis

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2014, 05:09:54 PM »
Trolls  are like mystical beings like witches. 
A word created for the purpose of its special interests.
 
Special Questions must be asked to eradicate the witches altogether same for trolls.
Fear has always been a powerful tool to abuse one and keep the followers in check.
When we can have equality for all trolls then we can have freedom of speech.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 05:11:31 PM by Jesuis »
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Offline Nam

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2014, 05:11:26 PM »
Trolls  are like mystical beings like witches. 
A word created for the purpose of its special interests in the villagers obedience. 
Special Questions must be asked to eradicate the witches altogether same for trolls.
Fear has always been a powerful tool to abuse one and keep the followers in check.
When we can have equality for all trolls then we can have freedom of speech.


So saith the troll.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2014, 05:27:33 PM »
I've gotten banned from a Christian board as well. Whether or not I was trolling depends on your definition, I guess. I never got confrontational, but I suppose I misrepresented myself by claiming I was a Christian with questions. I don't think anyone ever called me out as an atheist, per se, but evidently they didn't like the questions in any case, and I was told I was no longer welcome.

This was some years ago, though, and I don't recall the site or the exact conversation. I think I lasted two or three days there.

Thing is, unless you misrepresent yourself, you won't even get your foot in the door to discuss anything with them. Your intent may by 100% respectful and questions genuine, but if you let them know off the bat that you are coming from an atheist point of view they will cut you off at the first post.

I'm sure there are some boards which allow a more varied membership, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

I went to a Christian site and posed as a Christian. I posed as a Christian for the same reason that you did. My reason for going to the Christian site in the first place was that I had more of a chance of engaging with real Christians. That Poe's Law sure is a bitch.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2014, 07:00:37 PM »
Are there any studies on the psychology of an internet troll?
I have not seen any, but in psychology words like this have either a positive or negative intent. 
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" positive or negative effects is subjective.

Do atheists ever troll at Christian websites?
Depends on your definition of atheist.
Freedom of speech is not trolling? -
The beneficiary claims it is positive and the loser claims it is negative - freedom of speech should not be considered trolling but it suits someones agenda to make the call. Usually insecurity dominates the callers claim.

What is the criteria for deciding if an individual is a troll? 
As always,
OldChurchGuy
Individual judgement or voting where Majority rules.
The police is employed to keep the taxable and employed in their charge in control. Not to keep itself in check.
Similarly moderators decides on keeping the flock stable and less emotionally compromised.
Anyone challenging the flock could be a problem for them so that person is a troll.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Nam

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2014, 07:09:01 PM »
Jesuis,

I challenge the "Establishment" more often than not, and I have rarely been called a "troll" so your viewpoint is idiotic.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline jdawg70

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2014, 07:44:06 PM »
Individual judgement or voting where Majority rules.
The police is employed to keep the taxable and employed in their charge in control. Not to keep itself in check.
Similarly moderators decides on keeping the flock stable and less emotionally compromised.
Anyone challenging the flock could be a problem for them so that person is a troll.
Also, the snow in Georgia is an experimental government research project on weather control.

And don't get me started on the egg industry.  Hint: when the egg council says 'protein', they don't mean what you think they mean.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline godzilla

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2014, 09:01:37 PM »
This seems like fun, I am going to go off and troll some sites.  :D
Anyone ever troll Conservapedia?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 09:03:18 PM by godzilla »

Offline Nam

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2014, 09:15:31 PM »
This seems like fun, I am going to go off and troll some sites.  :D
Anyone ever troll Conservapedia?

Good luck in trolling Conservapedia. You'd have better luck at stormfront. org.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2014, 11:39:25 PM »
Luckily nobody would bother reading Conservapedia.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Nam

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2014, 01:33:25 AM »
Luckily nobody would bother reading Conservapedia.

Maybe for a good chuckle.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2014, 04:46:38 AM »
Are there any studies on the psychology of an internet troll?
There are some being carried out at the moment. There have been studies on similar traits in the past and from these we can form some kind of idea behind the mind of an internet troll.[1]
We all act differently when we are alone, when we are totally anonymous, like hidden in a crowd, or under cover of night, we do and say things we would not do normally. You may have done it yourself or seen and heard someone shout abuse at sports ground. We all tend to do that whilst watching a game at home or a political debate. It is because it is anonymous.
An internet troll is one such person, most of our anonymous behaviour is relatively benign, but sometimes it isn't it goad's people to react in different ways. like the jeering crowd shouting jump at a person on a ledge, or sending hate texts to a teenager, Anonymity makes all the difference, and unfortunately, this frees some to partake in some pretty awful behaviour, though trolling is deemed as merely a nuisance, it can be dangerous too.

Do atheists ever troll at Christian websites?
No doubt there are some, I could not say there weren't. However I myself could not and would not.

What is the criteria for deciding if an individual is a troll?
Simply the content of there posts. if it is personal, of topic, repetitive, etc.. you will know it when you see it. and as some said we all have the right to freedom of speech but that does not mean we can write abusive, unsubstantiated remarks.   


Fear of judgement is a powerful motivator, but when no one is looking over your shoulder, then it is purely your own moral character that must take over.

Addendum: you may find this interesting.  http://www.modernprimate.com/watch-dr-whitney-phillips-talk-trolls-and-the-media-on-sbs-insight/
 1. Leon Mann 1981 - Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.
http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1982-09774-001&CFID=5454128&CFTOKEN=75790762
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UwA1aaB2WGgC&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=leon+mann+-+Journal+of+Personality+and+Social+Psychology&source=bl&ots=VFzgbUmNLY&sig=qGGobdr19vGas-BuIPcONLxiufM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bqf0UorjGNPxhQeuk4H4BA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=leon%20mann%20-%20Journal%20of%20Personality%20and%20Social%20Psychology&f=false
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 04:53:22 AM by bertatberts »
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Trolling questions
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2014, 11:54:42 AM »
Do atheists ever troll at Christian websites?
No doubt there are some, I could not say there weren't. However I myself could not and would not.


Other than not paying attention to some troll slipping in a crosspost on usenet, I avoid it too.

Except one place:

Standingonmyhead.

A smug ass of a converted Catholic Preist who treats all atheists as trolls. If you don't agree with him...you are a troll in his eyes. If you are an atheist, you are scum as far as Father Longnecker is concerned.

And I hate him back.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 01:12:09 PM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.