Author Topic: When I became a christian  (Read 893 times)

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Offline Quesi

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2014, 08:33:48 PM »
Thank you for your response. 

Let me see if I can provide some clarity in terms of this question: 


Quote
And if it is just a made up story about not questioning God, isn't it kind of dangerous to have such an ambiguous line of communication with God, that can be so easily misunderstood, and potentially so harmful?

I'm not sure I understand the question.  If this is not a literal story, how is there dangerous ambiguous communication with God?


If it is not a literal story, then what is its purpose?  To obey God, and cater to his random whims? 

Three of the world's major religions consider this to be a important part of their history and their culture and their beliefs.  I live in a community with a huge Muslim population, and as you probably know there is a major Muslim holiday around this story.  Muslims will tell you that this is a story of "God's great mercy."  I don't see it.  I see it as a story about a sadistic god.   

And for someone mentally unstable, isn't it a dangerous story to teach? I mean, a god who approaches you in private and tells you to murder your son?[1]  Don't question the voices.  Just obey.  Even though you KNOW it is wrong. 

What kind of a message is that?

MM?  Do you have any thoughts on either my original questions?  Or this one?  I'd be interested in hearing your insight as well.   
 1. After having told you to impregnate your servant 

Offline magicmiles

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2014, 08:33:57 PM »
Where did I state Christians do nothing

Try:

more important ever see a Christian open their home to a homeless person?
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2014, 08:34:43 PM »


MM?  Do you have any thoughts on either my original questions?  Or this one?  I'd be interested in hearing your insight as well.

I'm too pissed off to consider anything rationally now. Maybe another time. Sorry.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline Quesi

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2014, 08:36:46 PM »


MM?  Do you have any thoughts on either my original questions?  Or this one?  I'd be interested in hearing your insight as well.

I'm too pissed off to consider anything rationally now. Maybe another time. Sorry.

Ok. 

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2014, 08:48:05 PM »
Where did I state Christians do nothing

Try:

more important ever see a Christian open their home to a homeless person?
In the western world or even YOU for example....ever taken in a homeless person? Can you point me to a resource where good Christians take homeless into THEIR own homes?
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2014, 08:52:37 PM »


MM?  Do you have any thoughts on either my original questions?  Or this one?  I'd be interested in hearing your insight as well.

I'm too pissed off to consider anything rationally now. Maybe another time. Sorry.
The simple statements I made pissed you off? This much really? how about proving me wrong and then showing me what God does for these very unfortunate Christians who starve to death waiting for his help,or for God to motivate you to help.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2014, 08:54:14 PM »
In the western world or even YOU for example....ever taken in a homeless person? Can you point me to a resource where good Christians take homeless into THEIR own homes?

I bet that there are Quakers who do.  I've done refugee work with Quakers who have opened their homes those fleeing persecution. 

But I agree that it is not a mainstream Christian practice. 


Edited for formatting

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2014, 08:57:31 PM »
In the western world or even YOU for example....ever taken in a homeless person? Can you point me to a resource where good Christians take homeless into THEIR own homes?

I bet that there are Quakers who do.  I've done refugee work with Quakers who have opened their homes those fleeing persecution. 

But I agree that it is not a mainstream Christian practice. 


Edited for formatting
Is this political refugees,war refugees,religious refugees?
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2014, 09:07:43 PM »
The statements made were general MM from personal observation and experience,please feel free to correct me with examples,I am not afraid to be wrong but from observation I don't think I am. These statements should in no way made you as angry as they did.....as I observed your generalization and insult of me and my aboriginal knowledge (limited to only that) did not really anger me. I just consider the source and your lack of knowledge on the subject,thus it is water of a ducks back
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2014, 09:09:23 PM »
prove me wrong MM,then tell me what God does to help those Christians in dire need of food,shelter,clothing in impoverished parts of the world. Generally in the western world are Christians comfy or are they suffering?

I cannot speak for God, but it is my belief that as long as there is suffering in the world, the work of the church is not finished. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

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Offline Quesi

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2014, 09:09:57 PM »
In the western world or even YOU for example....ever taken in a homeless person? Can you point me to a resource where good Christians take homeless into THEIR own homes?

I bet that there are Quakers who do.  I've done refugee work with Quakers who have opened their homes those fleeing persecution. 

But I agree that it is not a mainstream Christian practice. 


Edited for formatting
Is this political refugees,war refugees,religious refugees?

Hmmm.  I would say all of the above.  During the civil war in Guatemala in the 1980's, I worked with Quakers in Mexico City who assisted indigenous people who were fleeing the war.  And attempted genocide. 

And then in 1985, after the Mexico City earthquake, which left tens of thousands dead, and hundreds of thousands homeless, the Quakers (and the Central American refugees, who wanted to give back to the Mexican people, who had been so good to them) fed hundreds of folks left homeless by the earthquake every day.  They cooked the meals in a small kitchen, with a 4-burner stove, and water carried up from the Red Cross Center a few blocks away.  They then loaded barrels of rice and beans and chicken and , every day, onto the back of trucks, and brought them to the encampments where the homeless slept.

I helped sometimes.  But I was awed by the rare compassion of these folks.  Who were all going through their own personal crises in the aftermath of the earthquake. 

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2014, 09:18:17 PM »
The Quakers were doing good work in dire situations,as a religious organization they are nutty as hell
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2014, 09:22:36 PM »
prove me wrong MM,then tell me what God does to help those Christians in dire need of food,shelter,clothing in impoverished parts of the world. Generally in the western world are Christians comfy or are they suffering?

I cannot speak for God, but it is my belief that as long as there is suffering in the world, the work of the church is not finished. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
When you say work of the church you don't mean religious organizations like the Catholic church do you? You are speaking like the "true followers" of Jesus right? The wealth of churches like that of the Catholic church could put a big dent in the problems facing the world,yet they amass more and more wealth,for what purpose?
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Offline Quesi

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2014, 09:34:57 PM »
The Quakers were doing good work in dire situations,as a religious organization they are nutty as hell

I don't know.  I have a real soft spot for the Quakers.  As a group.  There are certainly individual Quakers who I don't care for.[1] But mostly, I really like them.   

They ran the underground railroad prior to the US Civil War. 

A whole bunch of them left the US because they were pacifists, opposed to all wars, and moved to a little community in the cloud forests of Honduras, where they set up a community school, and generations later, they are a minority population in a small indigenous village.  When the republican presidential candidates started looking really crazy, I looked at the school's job openings, and seriously considered waiting out a Santorum presidency in the cloud forests of Honduras.  I know I could work with them.  They don't mind atheists at all.  Don't try to convert anybody.  They mostly look to work with folks who are willing to work with a consensus model, and I'm happy to do that. 

 1. Nixon was the most un-Quaker Quaker ever

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2014, 09:35:21 PM »
prove me wrong MM,then tell me what God does to help those Christians in dire need of food,shelter,clothing in impoverished parts of the world. Generally in the western world are Christians comfy or are they suffering?

I cannot speak for God, but it is my belief that as long as there is suffering in the world, the work of the church is not finished. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
When you say work of the church you don't mean religious organizations like the Catholic church do you? You are speaking like the "true followers" of Jesus right? The wealth of churches like that of the Catholic church could put a big dent in the problems facing the world,yet they amass more and more wealth,for what purpose?

I am referencing all churches and religious institutions (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.).  I am not saying any of them are perfect. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2014, 09:42:38 PM »
prove me wrong MM,then tell me what God does to help those Christians in dire need of food,shelter,clothing in impoverished parts of the world. Generally in the western world are Christians comfy or are they suffering?

I cannot speak for God, but it is my belief that as long as there is suffering in the world, the work of the church is not finished. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
When you say work of the church you don't mean religious organizations like the Catholic church do you? You are speaking like the "true followers" of Jesus right? The wealth of churches like that of the Catholic church could put a big dent in the problems facing the world,yet they amass more and more wealth,for what purpose?

I am referencing all churches and religious institutions (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.).  I am not saying any of them are perfect. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
Why do some strive to gain wealth in your opinion instead of doing the work expected of them by their God?
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2014, 09:45:01 PM »
The Quakers were doing good work in dire situations,as a religious organization they are nutty as hell

I don't know.  I have a real soft spot for the Quakers.  As a group.  There are certainly individual Quakers who I don't care for.[1] But mostly, I really like them.   

They ran the underground railroad prior to the US Civil War. 

A whole bunch of them left the US because they were pacifists, opposed to all wars, and moved to a little community in the cloud forests of Honduras, where they set up a community school, and generations later, they are a minority population in a small indigenous village.  When the republican presidential candidates started looking really crazy, I looked at the school's job openings, and seriously considered waiting out a Santorum presidency in the cloud forests of Honduras.  I know I could work with them.  They don't mind atheists at all.  Don't try to convert anybody.  They mostly look to work with folks who are willing to work with a consensus model, and I'm happy to do that.
 1. Nixon was the most un-Quaker Quaker ever
I have only met a handful,they seem to be as close as Amish in their views of what it means to walk with their God,no?
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Offline Quesi

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2014, 09:57:35 PM »
Why do some strive to gain wealth in your opinion instead of doing the work expected of them by their God?

You know, "Christianity" is the catchphrase for the one third of the world's population who are the descendants of folks who were conquered by Christian nations.  They are a pretty diverse bunch. 

The prosperity gospel is gaining popularity here in the US.  They believe that god rewards his favorite followers with material wealth in this life.  So being comfy, or better yet, wealthy, is a sign of how much god loves them.

But I think that your average Christian stock broker or chicken farmer or sales clerk or child beauty pageant judge, doesn't think very much about any of the teachings in any of the scriptures.  Some of them have a personal relationship with Jesus.  He helps them out in hard times.  And they defer to him when he does unspeakable things, like let their children die.  Because He knows best. 

Some embrace religion as part of a larger political agenda.

But I think for most, their affiliation has more to do with holidays and traditions and community, and the way they were raised, than with any actual belief system.   

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2014, 10:05:32 PM »
^^ All this suggests is that your own life is comfortably middle class and you don't have a clue about much of the world beyond injustices to native Americans.

One of the stupidest posts I've ever seen.
See you are a comfy middle class family man,am I correct in assuming this?

 You can attribute all that is good to God and all that is bad to the evils of free-will used in a negative or evil way. How can God possibly lose or fail you or even to test your faith?

I don't give a shit about this part of your original post. Think what you bloody want.

There are millions of people throughout the world with faith in God who live very hard lives, and countless Christians throughout the world who sacrificially provide for and serve those less fortunate.
What does God do for those Christians living very hard lives,even dying,he is doing much less for them than he does for you and I,I suppose. Why does he do less,to the point of letting them suffer and die while he rewards you and I,a heathen? If you or I were in an impoverished part of the world,would he reward you and I like he is now or would he allow us to die?

 Like Me,I am sure you work hard to get where you are in life,the choice you make to work hard to provide for your family has little to do with a god. I am sure those who suffer and die would trade places with us in a heartbeat. We were fortunate enough to be born where it appears God is there to help us,but why can't it be that God will help all of his followers no matter where they were born?

 Drought,infertile farm land are factors in these parts of the world,why has God rewarded us (heathens before Christians arrived) with such a fertile bountiful land,while punishing (it appears) others with dust and starvation? I don't think they deserve such unequal treatment from a God and I am sure you would like them to share the same lives we have.

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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2014, 10:06:47 PM »
prove me wrong MM,then tell me what God does to help those Christians in dire need of food,shelter,clothing in impoverished parts of the world. Generally in the western world are Christians comfy or are they suffering?

I cannot speak for God, but it is my belief that as long as there is suffering in the world, the work of the church is not finished. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
When you say work of the church you don't mean religious organizations like the Catholic church do you? You are speaking like the "true followers" of Jesus right? The wealth of churches like that of the Catholic church could put a big dent in the problems facing the world,yet they amass more and more wealth,for what purpose?

I am referencing all churches and religious institutions (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.).  I am not saying any of them are perfect. 

As always,

OldChurchGuy
Why do some strive to gain wealth in your opinion instead of doing the work expected of them by their God?

Perceived power; greed.  There is the old axiom about absolute power corrupting absolutely. 

Egos are always a challenge. 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
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Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2014, 10:19:29 PM »
If they would stick to the work their God wants from them what a wonderful world it would be
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2014, 12:35:10 AM »
I have never met a Christian in an uncomfortable position in life,sure some may be battling the demons of the past like alcohol,but nonetheless are comfy.

I have, to think of a few off the top of my head.  They were homeless.  I could think of other examples if you like.
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Offline wright

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2014, 12:50:55 AM »
I have never met a Christian in an uncomfortable position in life,sure some may be battling the demons of the past like alcohol,but nonetheless are comfy.

 Ever see a homeless Christian? more important ever see a Christian open their home to a homeless person?

Odd. I've met a number of Christians who were homeless or otherwise at "an uncomfortable position in life". Their religion seemed to give them great comfort, which I could certainly sympathize with. In my own experience, it's not exclusively a faith of the middle class or higher.

Indeed, given the appeal of religion in general, it couldn't have enjoyed the success it has if it was exclusively (or even just mostly) an upper-class indulgence. All the major religions very effectively hijack entire social heirarchies and have for millennia.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2014, 12:52:51 AM »
I have never met a Christian in an uncomfortable position in life,sure some may be battling the demons of the past like alcohol,but nonetheless are comfy.

I have, to think of a few off the top of my head.  They were homeless.  I could think of other examples if you like.
I have not stated there are no Christians in a bad way in the western world,There are probably plenty of working poor and homeless who are Christian. As I do not hang out in homeless shelters,most of the Christians I have met are comfortable,middle class ones.

 
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Offline b.a.worldchanger

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Re: When I became a christian
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2014, 03:20:12 AM »
Today I came across two different individuals on the internet, from different parts of the world. Who stated the exact same thing namely "When I became a christian".
So I asked them what they were before, expecting to hear atheist, wiccan, etc. But what I got was they weren't christian though they were brought up in christian households. They became christian later. At no time did they say they were born again christians as I asked that. Can anyone enlighten me to what the heck they are talking about. As they couldn't all they did was say they weren't christian. Which made no sense whatsoever.

I suspect, after reading your post, that what they might have meant was the difference between acknowledgement, and obedience.  Perhaps they grew up in Christian homes being told about Jesus, praying, going to Church.  In their mind they absolutely believed that God was real, that Jesus was real.  But, it didn't have a practical or profound effect or impact on their lives.  At some point in time, this changed, and they began to actually live their faith, or own it for themselves, and not just out of tradition.  I suspect this is what they are referring to.  Rather than considering themselves "cultural" Christians by association, they now feel that they have a belief and relationship with God that is personal and affects their life and how they live it.  Again, this is just speculation, but it is something that I commonly hear.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 03:22:50 AM by b.a.worldchanger »