Author Topic: What about the Americas?  (Read 1907 times)

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Offline YouCantHandleTheTruth

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What about the Americas?
« on: January 28, 2014, 07:05:59 PM »
Forgive me if this question has been asked a million times.  If the Americas were discovered roughly 1,500 years after Christ, how are we supposed to believe that they knew a thing about Jesus?  I understand there are supposedly some vague tales of a "white" man reaching out to them in visions, but it seems more likely that Christianity was forced on the Native Americans.  Is there really any evidence that Pocahontas knew about Jesus, and her and other Native Americans were so grateful to the Brits/Spaniards, etc. for confirming their belief?  I'm not seeing it.  To me, this is a gigantic red flag (among thousands of them).

Online Azdgari

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2014, 07:08:47 PM »
The whole "if you don't believe in our god, you'll deserve to roast for eternity" thing, combined with the fact that most people until recent history didn't even know about that god, is pretty damning, as you say.  North America is just one example.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2014, 07:19:45 PM »
Our first nation peoples didn't know a darn thing about Jesus. Neither did the tribal peoples of Africa or Australia or south America. Christianity was shoved down their throats by ruthless invaders, and quite frankly, I think the loss of so much of those cultures is a massive crime.
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Offline YouCantHandleTheTruth

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2014, 07:31:55 PM »
Thanks for the replies and agreed on all counts.  I even read where much of the Native American art was destroyed by Spaniards in South America, because they saw it as blasphemous.  Unreal - what a bunch of pricks.

Offline Quesi

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 07:57:48 PM »
Just a point of clarification.  The Americas were "discovered" by Christians about 1500 years after Christ.

The folks who lived here already had "discovered" the land they called home thousands or tens of thousands of years earlier. 

Offline YouCantHandleTheTruth

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 08:01:49 PM »
Quesi - absolutely!  You nailed it - it was "discovered" by CHRISTIANS 1,500 years after Christ.  That's a huge problem.

Question - I keep trying to post another topic, and it gives me an error message, saying I'm forbidden to post.  Any ideas why that would happen?  Has anyone else had issues in the past posting in here, getting a similar error message?  Thanks in advance for the help.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 08:11:06 PM »
^^ It may have a word in the title that the software doesn't like. Try substituting a letter with a symbol for any words that may possibly be 'controversial'
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Offline Quesi

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 08:12:15 PM »
Yeah.  Sometimes combinations of words are "forbidden."  Not by the mods or the admins, but by the computer gods. 

Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 08:21:48 PM »
Just a point of clarification.  The Americas were "discovered" by Christians about 1500 years after Christ.

The folks who lived here already had "discovered" the land they called home thousands or tens of thousands of years earlier.


And the god of the Bible seems to have neglected them for tens of thousands of years, but that's because the god of the Bible works in mysterious ways.

It doesn't matter anyway, because even if the god of the Bible chose not to neglect them, they would have chosen to worship extremely non-animate golden calves and shit anyway. That's what heathens who are created by God in His image do, you know.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 08:38:10 PM »
^^^ Yeah.  I don't think that the God of Abraham DESPISED them or anything.  It's not like they were Canaanites.  God clearly despised the Canaanites. 

He didn't mention the indigenous people of the Americas at all.  It is almost as if He didn't know they existed....

As I write this, a thought occurs to me.  Young earthers out there?  I'm assuming that the indigenous folks of the Americas are all descendants of Noah.  As are we all.  Right? 

So how did they get here?  I mean, they clearly inherited some sort of boat building skills, to have crossed the oceans thousands of years before the rest of the world.  But somehow, they forgot all of the Noah stories and Abraham and all of that.  How did God let that happen? 

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 09:06:54 PM »
Read the Book of Mormon, in it it tells a story about Jews who escaped the mid east and came to the Americas, and how Jesus came to them from the heavens (in a white robe), and they spread the love of Jesus to the natives (who apparently were also them) and then it was said that only light gets into heaven and black people are evil and if they repent for the sins of their ancestors, and their own, they'll be turned into white people so they can be with Jesus but apparently this excludes natives who look sort of Asian but they're not black so they're good.

So, you see: native americans knew about Jesus before Christians did, apparently. Don't know where the magic underwear comes in, maybe Jesus was wearing them when he came down from heaven.

(Nephi 1&2)

-Nam
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Offline Quesi

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 09:31:47 PM »
But Nam.  What about the young earthers who DON'T believe in the Book of Mormon?

It is all so confusing.  If only the Christians could get their stories straight...

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 09:49:56 PM »
But Nam.  What about the young earthers who DON'T believe in the Book of Mormon?

It is all so confusing.  If only the Christians could get their stories straight...

Mormons are the only True™ Christians©®™.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 10:47:21 PM »
I could even start to tell you how FUCKED up the Christian version of the America's is.  It's hard to even know where to begin with the animal Christians who came here.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 11:22:36 PM »
The first settlers (Spanish, French and British) had no clue about the size of the America's and their relation to Asia. 

It is my understanding there was much speculation where all these native people came from.  Over time, starting around the 1600s, an idea developed that perhaps these natives were remnants of the 10 lost tribes conquered by the Assyrians back some 2,300 years previous.  As I understand history, even Thomas Jefferson, when sending out Lewis and Clark, asked them to be on the look out for evidence these natives were descended from the 10 lost tribes.  And, as Nam pointed out, soon after their return, Joseph Smith had a vision about the 10 lost tribes. 

To date, there is no genetic connection between Native Americans and Semitic tribes / clans of the Middle East.  I believe the Mormon Church has taken the studies under advisement which translates "We disagree, we just can't prove the data is wrong". 

Here is a link in that god-forsaken Wikepedia which may be of interest. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Lost_Tribes#The_United_States.2C_Native_Americans

End of lecture.

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Offline Fiji

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2014, 02:26:18 AM »
"Oddly" enough, the tribes along the African east coast all discovered the truth of the quran. How peculiar, and this of course had nothing to do with the Omani traders.
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Offline kcrady

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2014, 03:11:07 AM »
The problem is compounded when you consider all of the people everywhere else prior to the start of Christianity.  The pre-Roman Greeks, the ancient Egyptians, the Persians, Minoans, Scythians, etc., etc., etc., back to the people painting the caves at Lascaux and knapping Clovis points.  Tens of thousands of years. 

Now, consider this: In order for the "Christianity hypothesis" to have any possibility of being accurate, it must be possible for the "One True" faith to come late in history; for there to be many millennia in which people believe in various religions but none of them is true because the "One True" faith has not yet been announced to humankind, nor have its revelatory miracles yet taken place.  All of those people, believing in all of those religions and all of those gods, each group convinced that their faiths were valid, yet all of them wrong.  With no conceivable way to know they were wrong, because the "One True" faith had yet to appear on Earth.  No Jesus, and for most of the world through the vast majority of human history, not even any Jews.  No way to even guess that "Jews" or "Jesus" might come sometime in the future, and that they would be important if they did.  This is an inescapable corollary of Christianity.

So how do we know we aren't still waiting for the "One True" faith to be revealed?  It is inherently impossible to know that we are not all in the same situation Christians placed the Native Americans, waiting for the first spaceship full of missionaries to arrive and teach us the actual One True Faith.       
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Offline Quesi

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2014, 08:52:56 AM »
You know, I'm trying to wrap my brain around it.  So if you are a young earther, and you follow a timeline like this one: http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/Generations%20Adam-Moses.htm[1] then EVERYONE, including the mean Pharaohs of Egypt, and the frisky Soddomites, were the descendants of Noah. 

So whatever was going on before the flood must have been really really really bad, in comparison to enslaving the chosen subset of the surviving population.  I mean, God decided to kill off EVERYONE in the flood because they were being so naughty, but enslaving His favorite humans wasn't as bad as what was going on in Noah's time?  Even the whole Sodom and Gomorrah debacle came afterwards.

It doesn't seem to me that the flood was a very effective method of turning around humanity.  But surely I'm missing something.

So then, a small percentage of humanity remembers the whole Adam and Eve and Noah story, and then God sends Moses to provide a bunch of rules to the subset of humanity that remembers their history.   

In the mean time, a bunch of humans who have forgotten the whole history of their own ancestry, and who have forgotten the stuff that pisses God off most, manage to repopulate the whole, huge planet, moving all the way down to the southern tip of Africa, moving far far east, and inhabiting Korea and Japan.  Braving the cold, and moving northwest into places like the British Isles. 

And some of them, LOTS of them, actually, somehow managed to cross the ocean (without the benefit of the Bering Strait providing a footbridge, because the earth is only 6000 years old, and all of that geological stuff that supposedly happened tens of thousands of years ago is part of the scientific conspiracy to make us hate God) thousands of years before the really faithful folks figured out how to cross the ocean.

And young earthers care to clarify any of this for me?  Surely I'm missing something here. 
 1. which I had to google because I'll be damned if I can remember the order in which these folks supposedly lived and did their stuff

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2014, 09:36:30 AM »
^^^ Yeah.  I don't think that the God of Abraham DESPISED them or anything.  It's not like they were Canaanites.  God clearly despised the Canaanites. 
I think I need glasses. I read "It's not like they were Canadians  God clearly despised the Canadians." (I was nodding in agreement...)

Carry on.
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Offline Astreja

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2014, 11:20:59 AM »
I think I need glasses. I read "It's not like they were Canadians  God clearly despised the Canadians." (I was nodding in agreement...)

It's a fair cop.  Germany got J.S. Bach, the States got Ella Fitzgerald, and we get...

*sniffle* *sob* ...Celine Dion, Justin Bieber and Nickelback!  (Springy G clenches Her fist and menaces the high heavens) And stop giggling at us, dammit!
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2014, 11:35:27 AM »
But you all got kickin' health care, lovely manners and adorable baby seals. So it all balances out. Except for poutine. That sh!t is a curse and a half. :P
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2014, 02:26:17 PM »
It's a fair cop.  Germany got J.S. Bach, the States got Ella Fitzgerald, and we get...

*sniffle* *sob* ...Celine Dion, Justin Bieber and Nickelback!  (Springy G clenches Her fist and menaces the high heavens) And stop giggling at us, dammit!
No, no, you're forgetting 'entertainers' like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.  I realize they're not musicians (after all, there's a limit to how badly one human can suck without spontaneously turning into a black hole), but...

Offline screwtape

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2014, 03:45:30 PM »
Limbaugh's Canadian?  Awesome.  maybe we can deport him...
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2014, 03:49:39 PM »
No, I was trying to make Astreja feel better about the, ah, quality of Canadian entertainers by pointing to some homegrown 'entertainers'.

Offline G-Roll

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2014, 03:53:09 PM »
Neil Young is Canadian. That makes up for at least 3 Justin Beavers.  ;)

Online Nam

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2014, 03:54:11 PM »
Limbaugh's Canadian?  Awesome.  maybe we can deport him...

Deport Ted Cruz, too. He actually is Canadian.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2014, 04:40:12 PM »
I think I need glasses. I read "It's not like they were Canadians  God clearly despised the Canadians." (I was nodding in agreement...)

It's a fair cop.  Germany got J.S. Bach, the States got Ella Fitzgerald, and we get...

*sniffle* *sob* ...Celine Dion, Justin Bieber and Nickelback!  (Springy G clenches Her fist and menaces the high heavens) And stop giggling at us, dammit!

Well, you got Neil Young(as G-Roll pointed out), The Guess Who, April Wine, Rush, Triumph, and The Kings, but I would vote England #1 and U.S. #2 in pop music.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2014, 04:52:29 PM »
Seeing as this has turned into a Canadian music appreciation thread, I nominate TPOH and Crash Test Dummies as also balancing out Bieber and Dion.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: What about the Americas?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2014, 04:59:09 PM »
Seeing as this has turned into a Canadian music appreciation thread, I nominate TPOH and Crash Test Dummies as also balancing out Bieber and Dion.

Sarah Harmer is sufficient to compensate for Bieber and Dion.

Leonard Cohen is required to combat the evil of Twain.
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