Author Topic: Religion belief is not a natural human state  (Read 2551 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3950
  • Darwins +265/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2014, 11:11:39 PM »
Actually, atheism would be the unnatural state. Everyone usually grows up believing in God. It's once they are taught NOT to believe that they stop believing.

Yes, just like learning language and not to poop in your pants. 

In fact, one could argue that atheism takes more indoctrination than theism does.

A lack of belief requires no indoctrination. You were not indoctrinated to not believe that your shoes don't fly around the room while you are asleep.



An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Online Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12709
  • Darwins +337/-85
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2014, 11:13:44 PM »
My shoes don't fly around when I sleep? DAMN YOU!!!!

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline jaimehlers

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5095
  • Darwins +586/-18
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2014, 11:17:25 PM »
Actually, atheism would be the unnatural state. Everyone usually grows up believing in God. It's once they are taught NOT to believe that they stop believing.
No, 'everyone' (meaning most people) usually grow up believing in whatever religious belief their family and, to a lesser degree, community hold.  That means children raised by atheists will likely be atheists themselves.  Most people who deconvert are never taught to "stop believing", either.  They either switch to some different belief system, or they simply lose their faith entirely.  Nobody teaches them anything in that latter case.

Quote from: skeptic54768
In fact, one could argue that atheism takes more indoctrination than theism does.
This is incorrect.  Children don't question what their parents teach them, especially at that young of an age.  They accept it unthinkingly and cling to it unless something shocks them loose.  It takes very little effort to thoroughly indoctrinate children into a religion, whereas adults generally have preexisting beliefs that get in the way.  So it isn't a matter of one or the other requiring 'more' indoctrination, since children are always more susceptible to indoctrination.  Much, much more.

Online ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6632
  • Darwins +798/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • If you are religious, you are misconcepted
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2014, 12:08:47 AM »
Actually, atheism would be the unnatural state. Everyone usually grows up believing in God. It's once they are taught NOT to believe that they stop believing.

In fact, one could argue that atheism takes more indoctrination than theism does.

Lets see. My two kids grew up not believing. It took no indoctrination. I just didn't take them to church.

I was told to go to church when I was little. I figured out at an early age that religion was wrong about everything. I quit going as soon as I was old enough for my parents to believe me when I said I didn't want to go any more. The indoctrination stopped right about then and I've done fine ever since.

The words "There are not gods" are all one has to know to be an atheist. There is no indoctrination involved. Just information transferral. Of the proper kind. Not those lies the religious tell.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6888
  • Darwins +927/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2014, 08:01:53 PM »
Actually, atheism would be the unnatural state. Everyone usually grows up believing in God. It's once they are taught NOT to believe that they stop believing.

In fact, one could argue that atheism takes more indoctrination than theism does.

Even if this were so, and everyone grows up believing in a god, it does not follow that everyone grows up believing in your god.

And I don't know where you get the idea that "everyone" grows up believing in a god, anyway. Where? In the US, Africa and Latin America, probably yes.  But not in many European countries or in China or Japan. You have to be taught about a particular religion or you won't know about any gods.

I teach college students and most of the Asian kids, especially the Chinese and Japanese, are baffled that so many of their classmates believe in invisible magic beings. (The South Korean kids are mainly fundie Christians who believe in witches and demons.)

Yes, in modern America, many otherwise intelligent people think invisible magic beings control the weather, the government, and who will win the Superbowl. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2751
  • Darwins +53/-444
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2014, 02:44:36 AM »

Lets see. My two kids grew up not believing. It took no indoctrination. I just didn't take them to church.


I was told to go to church when I was little. I figured out at an early age that religion was wrong about everything. I quit going as soon as I was old enough for my parents to believe me when I said I didn't want to go any more. The indoctrination stopped right about then and I've done fine ever since.

The words "There are not gods" are all one has to know to be an atheist. There is no indoctrination involved. Just information transferral. Of the proper kind. Not those lies the religious tell.

That is my point. You did not mention Christianity to them as an option, so it is indoctrination.

If I ever have kids someday, I will certainly be telling them about God AND atheism. I will not indoctrinate my kids. Atheists shouldn't indoctrinate either.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12709
  • Darwins +337/-85
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2014, 02:50:18 AM »
Skeptic,

Indoctrination means to introduce "doctrines" to someone uncritically, without fault. How is not telling someone about Christianity "indoctrination"? It isn't. Stop saying stupid things and making up fictitious definitions.

-Nam
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 02:52:37 AM by Nam »
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2751
  • Darwins +53/-444
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2014, 03:04:33 AM »
Skeptic,

Indoctrination means to introduce "doctrines" to someone uncritically, without fault. How is not telling someone about Christianity "indoctrination"? It isn't. Stop saying stupid things and making up fictitious definitions.

-Nam

But you are uncritically trying to make them embrace atheism. You did not critically examine atheism and Christianity together with your kids.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2014, 05:18:33 AM »


The lack of doctrines is indoctrination?

*MINDBLOWN*
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 05:34:29 AM by Angus and Alexis »
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2756
  • Darwins +222/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I can haz jeezusburger™
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2014, 07:04:28 AM »
Actually, atheism would be the unnatural state. Everyone usually grows up believing in God. It's once they are taught NOT to believe that they stop believing.

In fact, one could argue that atheism takes more indoctrination than theism does.

One can argue that you are troll, who says contradictory thing in each post.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2756
  • Darwins +222/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I can haz jeezusburger™
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2014, 07:10:27 AM »

The lack of doctrines is indoctrination?


But remember: [troll quote] In fact, one could argue that atheism takes more indoctrination than theism does. [/troll quote]

Therefore the lack of doctrine takes more effort than brainwashing a Christian into believing the entire Bible.

This is because to be a proper atheist, you have to teach your child how to be a drug dealer, and how to play PS4 all day. Plus, you have to stay awake all night answering his protests that evolution couldn't be true. You teach Johnny about dinosaurs, and he just naturally comes back with "But dinosaurs couldn't have existed. Men would have ridden on them during the flood."

True story.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2014, 07:13:14 AM »
This is because to be a proper atheist, you have to teach your child how to be a drug dealer, and how to play PS4 all day. Plus, you have to stay awake all night answering his protests that evolution couldn't be true.

Shit, really?
I have much to learn.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline natlegend

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1658
  • Darwins +66/-0
  • Polyatheist
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2014, 09:14:10 AM »
Actually, atheism would be the unnatural state. Everyone usually grows up believing in God. It's once they are taught NOT to believe that they stop believing.

In fact, one could argue that atheism takes more indoctrination than theism does.

Every once in a while you say something intelligent, and then you just blab this sort of nonsense. Do you even think before you post? Do not presume to know how I grew up as an atheist, I had dear friends from primary school all the way through to highschool who were religious, one a JW, another a Seventh Day Adventist, and the third Exclusive Brethren. I always knew religion was a crock, no one ever 'indoctrinated' me with atheism.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline voodoo child

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1823
  • Darwins +10/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2014, 09:22:37 AM »
Actually, atheism would be the unnatural state. Everyone usually grows up believing in God. It's once they are taught NOT to believe that they stop believing.

In fact, one could argue that atheism takes more indoctrination than theism does.

No one knows what a god is until another human tells them of one. Of course by the time you are 7 and dinosaur bones are more interesting than imaginary beings.  Little late for grandma, to make silly stories stick.
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline jaimehlers

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5095
  • Darwins +586/-18
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2014, 10:39:59 AM »
That is my point. You did not mention Christianity to them as an option, so it is indoctrination.
Nope.  Indoctrination is about teaching someone to accept something unthinkingly.  And while the atheists here might not have taken their children to Christian churches or introduced them to a god that they don't believe in, most of them probably tried to teach their children to have open minds and to think before making decisions, instead of closing things off behind a "do not open" mental door.  That's the opposite of indoctrination.

Quote from: skeptic54768
If I ever have kids someday, I will certainly be telling them about God AND atheism. I will not indoctrinate my kids. Atheists shouldn't indoctrinate either.
Unless you are extremely careful, with a hundred little things you probably won't even notice doing, you'll ensure your children believe the same as you do.  It won't matter if you tell them about "God" and atheism, because you won't present atheism as something they should consider, just the same as how you won't present other religions as something they should consider.  For example, do you intend to teach your children that all religions except yours are demon-inspired?  If you do, then you'll be indoctrinating them.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11142
  • Darwins +294/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2014, 10:54:04 AM »
Unless you are extremely careful, with a hundred little things you probably won't even notice doing, you'll ensure your children believe the same as you do.  It won't matter if you tell them about "God" and atheism, because you won't present atheism as something they should consider, just the same as how you won't present other religions as something they should consider.  For example, do you intend to teach your children that all religions except yours are demon-inspired?  If you do, then you'll be indoctrinating them.

My expected response:
Ah, but, you see, it's not indoctrination if it's the truth!!!
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2751
  • Darwins +53/-444
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2014, 11:57:27 AM »

No one knows what a god is until another human tells them of one.
Of course by the time you are 7 and dinosaur bones are more interesting than imaginary beings.  Little late for grandma, to make silly stories stick.

if that is true, then how did the first person come to know of God?

*cue Jeopardy music*
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11142
  • Darwins +294/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2014, 12:03:05 PM »

No one knows what a god is until another human tells them of one.
Of course by the time you are 7 and dinosaur bones are more interesting than imaginary beings.  Little late for grandma, to make silly stories stick.

if that is true, then how did the first person come to know of God?

*cue Jeopardy music*

Define "come to know of God (sic)". I think I know what you mean, but I want to be sure.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Online Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12709
  • Darwins +337/-85
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2014, 01:48:25 PM »
Skeptic,

Indoctrination means to introduce "doctrines" to someone uncritically, without fault. How is not telling someone about Christianity "indoctrination"? It isn't. Stop saying stupid things and making up fictitious definitions.

-Nam

But you are uncritically trying to make them embrace atheism. You did not critically examine atheism and Christianity together with your kids.

Idiotic.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6632
  • Darwins +798/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • If you are religious, you are misconcepted
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2014, 02:12:33 PM »

Lets see. My two kids grew up not believing. It took no indoctrination. I just didn't take them to church.


I was told to go to church when I was little. I figured out at an early age that religion was wrong about everything. I quit going as soon as I was old enough for my parents to believe me when I said I didn't want to go any more. The indoctrination stopped right about then and I've done fine ever since.

The words "There are not gods" are all one has to know to be an atheist. There is no indoctrination involved. Just information transferral. Of the proper kind. Not those lies the religious tell.

That is my point. You did not mention Christianity to them as an option, so it is indoctrination.

If I ever have kids someday, I will certainly be telling them about God AND atheism. I will not indoctrinate my kids. Atheists shouldn't indoctrinate either.

Man, how do you know everything about me? About how I hid my sons from society to protect them from religion?

Or not.

They both had plenty of exposure to religion. I also didn't indoctrinate them in the fields of leprechaun study, fairies, bigfoot (though that was an oversight), or the Loch Ness monster.

I'm sorry. I thought it so important to tell them about real stuff that I couldn't justify taking the time to shove crap down their throats. Does that reveal a flaw in my personality?
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline jaimehlers

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5095
  • Darwins +586/-18
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2014, 02:34:46 PM »
if that is true, then how did the first person come to know of God?

*cue Jeopardy music*
If 'God' is imaginary, then the first person to think of him made him up.  Which succinctly explains why the concept of gods was so much different depending on where you went.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3950
  • Darwins +265/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2014, 02:56:53 PM »

No one knows what a god is until another human tells them of one.
Of course by the time you are 7 and dinosaur bones are more interesting than imaginary beings.  Little late for grandma, to make silly stories stick.

if that is true, then how did the first person come to know of God?

*cue Jeopardy music*

loaded question.

Do people lie, hallucinate, and exaggerate?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 02:58:42 PM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6888
  • Darwins +927/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2014, 06:12:07 PM »

No one knows what a god is until another human tells them of one.
Of course by the time you are 7 and dinosaur bones are more interesting than imaginary beings.  Little late for grandma, to make silly stories stick.

if that is true, then how did the first person come to know of God?

*cue Jeopardy music*

Same way the first person came to know of Shango, Krishna, Bigfoot, Cinderella and Rumplestiltskin. They made it up!  &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline natlegend

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1658
  • Darwins +66/-0
  • Polyatheist
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2014, 07:36:29 PM »

No one knows what a god is until another human tells them of one.
Of course by the time you are 7 and dinosaur bones are more interesting than imaginary beings.  Little late for grandma, to make silly stories stick.

if that is true, then how did the first person come to know of God?

*cue Jeopardy music*

Twit. Think, Skeptic, THINK.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline skeptic54768

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2751
  • Darwins +53/-444
  • Gender: Male
  • Christianity is the most beautiful religion.
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2014, 01:53:09 AM »
Guys,

The main problem is that you are not offering any reasons why the religion is wrong. OK fine you don't believe it, but if you don't have any reasons to think it's wrong other than, "I just don't believe it," then you can't expect people to just drop the belief.

You guys having a feeling that it's wrong is the same as us having a feeling that it's right, expect we try to back it up. You guys just seem to have no reasons why a person should think it's wrong.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2014, 02:01:00 AM »
Why is religion wrong?

Asking that is going to get a shit load of mixed answers.

I personally do not care about religion, believe whatever you want.

But the nanosecond you put that on someone else, even your family, that is the line for me.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline jaimehlers

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5095
  • Darwins +586/-18
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2014, 02:13:44 AM »
The main problem is that you are not offering any reasons why the religion is wrong. OK fine you don't believe it, but if you don't have any reasons to think it's wrong other than, "I just don't believe it," then you can't expect people to just drop the belief.

You guys having a feeling that it's wrong is the same as us having a feeling that it's right, expect we try to back it up. You guys just seem to have no reasons why a person should think it's wrong.
Amazing, a statement from you that I have no real problems with.  I much prefer statements like this instead of ones trying to argue against evolution by saying that we aren't glued to the Earth.

A belief, in and of itself, is neither right nor wrong.  It would be like trying to claim that believing that chocolate tastes better than vanilla was 'right' or 'wrong'.  It's what you do with that belief that matters.  Dr. Seuss wrote a book that points this out called the Bitter Butter Battle.  It's about two groups of people who butter different sides of their bread; the one butters the top side, and the other butters the bottom side.  In its own right, it hardly matters at all.  Who cares about which side of the bread someone butters?

Well, these two peoples did.  They got into an arms race over it and were eventually poised to destroy each other entirely...over which side of the bread to butter.  Because they were bound and determined to prove that their own belief was superior.

This is what religion - or the people who believe in a religion, if you prefer - has done for much of human history.  We've had groups of people oppress, demonize, forcibly convert, or even kill other groups because they held a different religious belief.  Even you, skeptic, are intent on trying to prove your own belief right and other beliefs wrong, by declaring that those other beliefs were founded by demons or whatever.  The vast majority of religious beliefs, of any religion, are like that, and that's a huge problem.  Because once you've started down that road and started convincing others of it, how do you make sure the Law of Unintended Consequences doesn't come back to bite you?

Offline natlegend

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1658
  • Darwins +66/-0
  • Polyatheist
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2014, 05:23:13 AM »
Guys,

The main problem is that you are not offering any reasons why the religion is wrong. OK fine you don't believe it, but if you don't have any reasons to think it's wrong other than, "I just don't believe it," then you can't expect people to just drop the belief.

You guys having a feeling that it's wrong is the same as us having a feeling that it's right, expect we try to back it up. You guys just seem to have no reasons why a person should think it's wrong.

(Bold mine)

Skeptic, do you believe in Santa Claus? Do you have any reasons as to why you don't believe in Santa Claus?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3950
  • Darwins +265/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Religion belief is not a natural human state
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2014, 06:08:52 AM »
Guys,

The main problem is that you are not offering any reasons why the religion is wrong.



You mean apart from every bit of evidence it was made up crap...and the evidence it is used to hurt people. I suppose aside from the two most basic definitions of wrong, non factual and harmful...I suppose not.


An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.