Author Topic: In the Beginning, or did it Begin?  (Read 450 times)

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Offline Cycle4Fun

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In the Beginning, or did it Begin?
« on: November 12, 2008, 04:16:35 PM »
My friend, with a PHd in macromolecular science sent this via email to me.  Apparently his church is having a lecturer give classes on creationism.  He wrote, "I thought you guys might find these references and materials to be of interest.  It ties together creationism (god/christianity) with science (big bang, darwinism, relativity) in a very interesting and critical yet open minded way.  I thought you science minded guys would find this to be of interest!"

This is a rather long article that I plan to debunk.  Some of you may be interested in debunking this as well.  Yes, I know everything, or nearly everything in this article isn't actually science.

I'll be breaking up the article into several pieces.   

This class is taught by Ken Kear.  I assume this is his work.  All laughter should be directed at him.
Grace Church – Christian Life Elective Nov. 2, 2008
Science & Creation: Can There Be Both?
Science & Creation: Can There Be Both? - Week 2

In The Beginning… Or Did It Begin?
The Astronomers Know!

RECAP…
-It’s about origins and tools
-A tool should not dictate a belief system
-??But, if you have a hammer, everything tends to look like a nail!
??-The scientific community is generally fixated on the evolutionary belief system. To the point
of rejecting, even punishing all those who fail to comply with their views.
-??Christian creationists are generally much more open-minded than the is typically thought of
them

??Scientific knowledge is at a snapshot in time. Historically it has changed a great deal with
time. Today we must accept that it is likely to do the same. Being dogmatic continues to be
a foolish position.  ??God and His inspired Bible has proven to be reliable historically. When closely examined
today where we have evidence it stands up well. It is wise to continue to trust the Biblical
record.

Origins – Origin of the Universe
Let’s look into the origins of the universe since the Biblical account starts there. We will look at
evidence and theories to see how consistent the secular Big Bang model is with the facts and
how consistent the creation account is.
What does God reveal?
Genesis 1:1-2-2:4
Can we trust the Bible as God’s revealed truth?
2 Peter 1:20-21
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Psalms 19:1-10
Psalms 119:80-91

How does God describe Himself as creator?
Isaiah 57:15 (Young’s Literal Translation) 15 For thus said the high and exalted One,
Inhabiting eternity, and holy is His name:
‘In the high and holy place I dwell,
And with the bruised and humble of spirit,
To revive the spirit of the humble,
And to revive the heart of bruised ones,’

Psalms 90:1-4 ( NIV ) 1 Lord, you have been our dwelling place
throughout all generations.
2 Before the mountains were born
or you brought forth the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
3 You turn men back to dust,
saying, “Return to dust, O sons of men.”
4 For a thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.

John 1:1-3 ( NIV ) 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

God’s Expectation for Our Response
Romans 1:18-21 - It’s obvious and apparent to all
Romans 1:18-21 ( NIV ) 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the
godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be
known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of
the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen,
being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their
thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Origins of the Universe & Astronomy (Cosmogony)
Astronomers now see that the universe is expanding. In every direction they look things are
moving away from us, quickly. Objects apparently further away are receding faster than those
closer to us. They know if you track it back it all started at some point in time as a single event.
They believe all space is expanding, so no matter where you are you see everything moving
away from you. They do not believe the Earth / Milky Way galaxy is the center of the universe.

The key point is… they know there was a point where it all began. They can’t answer what was it
like before it began, or how did it begin, or who began it, or where the unbelievable amount of
energy came from that started it. At first they used to believe it was probably cyclical, that once it
expanded gravity would pull it all back together in big collapse, only to start over again as another
big bang. They thought then it has all been going on since eternity past. But now, they even
have to admit that time probably began at the big bang as the space-time universe came into
being, because the universe is expanding at an accelerating pace. And they aren’t quite sure
why. They have had to propose “dark matter” and “dark energy” exist which are pulling and
expanding it.

They believe that the energy of the big bang expanded and eventually began to condense into
sub-subatomic particles (quarks, bosons, etc.), then into light, then into subatomic particles
(protons, neutrons, electrons,), then atoms. And the atoms began to collect by gravity and form
into the stars, which collected into galaxies. Some stars collected into solar systems from the
gases and dust.

One problem: have you ever seen a balloon pop, then all the gas molecules collect themselves
back together? Why would it happen on an astronomical scale? There is a critical mass density
(which it pretty high) before this would ever occur. It even violates the Second Law of
Thermodynamics, which states that things only degrade into disorder (like expanding gas
molecules and atoms), not collecting and ordering themselves.

Thought Problem – Could the universe have started in eternity past?
Issue: How big is infinity? If you go back to infinity past, first you never can get there. But if you
did then looking forward in time is an infinite distance back.

[Drew picture of now and infinite time line into past and future.  Then made the claim that you can't get to today with an infinite past]
You can’t get here from there!
The universe had to have a starting point in time, a beginning point where time=0.

[Drew picture of now with a line to the past with a definite starting point and an infinite future.  Then made the claim that you can get to today with only a finite beginning]
OK, you can get here from there in this case.

You see God was right it is obvious that we had to have a creation point. (Genesis 1:1, Romans 1:19-
20 )
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 04:24:00 PM by Cycle4Fun »
How do you define soul?
"A baseless assertion by simple-minded, superstitious individuals"
   -Starstuff

Offline Cycle4Fun

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Re: In the Beginning, or did it Begin?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2008, 04:16:49 PM »
Reserved for my comments
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 04:24:49 PM by Cycle4Fun »
How do you define soul?
"A baseless assertion by simple-minded, superstitious individuals"
   -Starstuff

Offline Cycle4Fun

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Re: In the Beginning, or did it Begin?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2008, 04:17:01 PM »
delete this please
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 04:24:13 PM by Cycle4Fun »
How do you define soul?
"A baseless assertion by simple-minded, superstitious individuals"
   -Starstuff

Offline Cycle4Fun

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Re: In the Beginning, or did it Begin?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2008, 04:17:12 PM »
delete this please
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 04:24:37 PM by Cycle4Fun »
How do you define soul?
"A baseless assertion by simple-minded, superstitious individuals"
   -Starstuff

Offline Freezykow

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Re: In the Beginning, or did it Begin?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2008, 05:19:24 PM »
Delete! Delete!
When the power of love, overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. – Jimi Hendrix