Author Topic: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?  (Read 6456 times)

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Offline Aaron123

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To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« on: January 04, 2014, 01:37:24 AM »
Some theists make the claim that "atheists lack a consistence basic for morality" and that "without god, there's no reason not to rape, kill, etc".  Some examples:

http://carm.org/failure-of-atheism-to-account-for-morality
http://voices.yahoo.com/athiests-amoral-hypocritical-lacking-integrity-5003896.html

In the "Why is murder a sin" topic, Skeptic54768 even suggested that atheists should kill their parents for money.  Right now I'm not going to argue whenever or not this is true, or if morality for atheists are "inconsistent".  Instead, I'm going to ask for one simple thing.

What is the evidence that atheists are amoral?


The claim that atheists are "lacking" in their morality, and that they're only a few steps away from doing bad things is something that should be easily demonstrable.  I can think of several things.

  • A disproportionally high percentage of atheists in prisons.  We should expect to see far more atheists in prisons than religious people (since they've cut off their connection to god).  Say, a 70/30 ratio at the very least.
  • A disproportionally high divorce rate among atheists.  Presumably, without god, nothing stops them from cheating on each other.
  • A disproportionally high amount of dropout, drug users, teenage pregnancy, etc.  Presumably, this is because without god, they have nothing to guide them to avoid those things. 
  • Higher crime rates in more secular parts of the USA.  We should expect to see a drastically lower crime rate in the bible belt, and people's lives in those areas should be overwhelmingly happier and healthier than in other parts of the country (since they are more connected to god).
  • This is, of course, not limited to the USA.  We'd also expect to see secular countries to have high amount of problems, while religious countries would be very peaceful, with limited amount of problems (again, because of their connection to god).

Can anyone provide such evidence?  If anyone tries to list an example of a single person (as opposed to general population), make sure to provide evidence that it was atheism, specifically, that caused him/her to behave the way they did. (like if they wrote down "because there is no god, I've decided to...")  If the evidence is nonexistence or lacking, then it seems reasonable to say that the argument "atheists are amoral/lacking in moral standards" is a terrible one.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2014, 02:22:18 AM »
Do you realize how many strawmen you have set up to get knocked down?

I never said that atheists lack morals. I said they are borrowing their morals from the Christian worldview, considering there is no logical reason to be moral as an atheist. So the atheists who are moral must be borrowing from Christianity.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Aaron123

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2014, 02:35:37 AM »
Do you realize how many strawmen you have set up to get knocked down?

I never said that atheists lack morals. I said they are borrowing their morals from the Christian worldview, considering there is no logical reason to be moral as an atheist. So the atheists who are moral must be borrowing from Christianity.

I never claimed that you said "atheists lack morals".  Though I did bring up that bit about parents killing.  That part is you, specifically.

Now then, can you (or anyone else) actually address the OP question?

Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2014, 02:40:14 AM »
Do you realize how many strawmen you have set up to get knocked down?

I never said that atheists lack morals. I said they are borrowing their morals from the Christian worldview, considering there is no logical reason to be moral as an atheist. So the atheists who are moral must be borrowing from Christianity.

I never claimed that you said "atheists lack morals".  Though I did bring up that bit about parents killing.  That part is you, specifically.

Now then, can you (or anyone else) actually address the OP question?

Since I never said atheists lack morals, I guess the OP doesn't apply to me.

Now if God does not exist, then yes the world would basically be a free for all with the fittest winning. People with mental disabilities or physical disabilities would be trampled on.

But, since atheists borrow from Christianity, they don't treat the disabled like that. But without God, logically those people are just mistakes of nature that are easily disposable.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline albeto

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2014, 02:54:11 AM »

Now if God does not exist, then yes the world would basically be a free for all with the fittest winning. People with mental disabilities or physical disabilities would be trampled on.

Based on what?

But, since atheists borrow from Christianity, they don't treat the disabled like that. But without God, logically those people are just mistakes of nature that are easily disposable.

I assume you don't include such stellar moral examples as slavery, human trafficking, child abuse, capital punishment for such "crimes" as lack of belief, and of course blood (human and god) sacrifice. So which moral ideas do you suggest atheists borrow from Christianity?

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2014, 02:56:49 AM »

Now if God does not exist, then yes the world would basically be a free for all with the fittest winning. People with mental disabilities or physical disabilities would be trampled on.

Based on what?

But, since atheists borrow from Christianity, they don't treat the disabled like that. But without God, logically those people are just mistakes of nature that are easily disposable.

I assume you don't include such stellar moral examples as slavery, human trafficking, child abuse, capital punishment for such "crimes" as lack of belief, and of course blood (human and god) sacrifice. So which moral ideas do you suggest atheists borrow from Christianity?

If someone believed in those things, they would be the furthest away from Christianity.

Equality for all is a Christian principle.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2014, 02:57:45 AM »
Skeptic,

So are you saying atheists are capable of being morally good because God made them morally good or because they borrowed their good morality from Christianity?

So then, does God like something because it is morally good or is something morally good because God likes it?
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2014, 03:01:46 AM »
Skeptic,

So are you saying atheists are capable of being morally good because God made them morally good or because they borrowed their good morality from Christianity?

So then, does God like something because it is morally good or is something morally good because God likes it?

Moral goodness is simply God's nature. Just like how fingers and toes are part of our nature.

God does not make anyone morally good. God doesn't make emotionless robots. We are given the choice to listen to our conscience or ignore it.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline albeto

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2014, 03:01:59 AM »
If someone believed in those things, they would be the furthest away from Christianity.

Have you ever read the bible? Are you familiar with historical events?

Equality for all is a Christian principle.

Equality in what respect?

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2014, 03:03:33 AM »
Equality for all is a Christian principle.

Wow!

Since when?

Does everyone go to heaven to be with Jesus?  Even those who don't believe?

No?

Then inequality is the basis of Christianity.

Deal with it.
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2014, 03:09:24 AM »
Equality for all is a Christian principle.

Wow!

Since when?

Does everyone go to heaven to be with Jesus?  Even those who don't believe?

No?

Then inequality is the basis of Christianity.

Deal with it.

Does everyone get to roam free? Even those who are criminals?

No?

Then inequality is the basis of society.

Does that make sense?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2014, 03:15:01 AM »
Do you realize how many strawmen you have set up to get knocked down?

I never said that atheists lack morals. I said they are borrowing their morals from the Christian worldview, considering there is no logical reason to be moral as an atheist. So the atheists who are moral must be borrowing from Christianity.

You sir, are impossible to have a discussion with. It isn't an answer if the only thing right about it is the spelling. But you go ahead and enjoy yourself. Nobody else ever will.


Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2014, 03:15:51 AM »
Skeptic,

So are you saying atheists are capable of being morally good because God made them morally good or because they borrowed their good morality from Christianity?

So then, does God like something because it is morally good or is something morally good because God likes it?

Moral goodness is simply God's nature. Just like how fingers and toes are part of our nature.

God does not make anyone morally good. God doesn't make emotionless robots. We are given the choice to listen to our conscience or ignore it.

So since God is morally good by nature, God both likes something because it is morally good and it is morally good because God likes it.

A morally good God by nature is circular logic.

God created God.
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline median

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2014, 03:32:16 AM »

Moral goodness is simply God's nature. Just like how fingers and toes are part of our nature.

God does not make anyone morally good. God doesn't make emotionless robots. We are given the choice to listen to our conscience or ignore it.

But you've already admitted that this "God" thing can violate it's own rules (aka - it's own nature) and so you've forfeited your option for using this argument. This 'nature' thing cannot be the standard of morality since this what the 'judge' does is a "different role" which (according to YOUR OWN THEOLOGY) we cannot follow.

It would be nice if, for once, you would actually admit when you are in error and adjust your beliefs to fit the facts, instead of the other way around. Your God is not the standard of morality b/c according to your own words we can't do what 'the judge' does and have it be moral. There are "different roles", remember? Well, there really aren't different roles. You are 100% wrong on this but it's not surprising if you refuse to see it - all b/c you started with your conclusion and are desperate to hold onto it (likely b/c you have lots invested).
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline SevenPatch

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2014, 03:35:25 AM »
Equality for all is a Christian principle.

Wow!

Since when?

Does everyone go to heaven to be with Jesus?  Even those who don't believe?

No?

Then inequality is the basis of Christianity.

Deal with it.

Does everyone get to roam free? Even those who are criminals?

No?

Then inequality is the basis of society.

Does that make sense?

I understand what you're trying to do.

So you equate "going to heaven to be with Jesus" with not being in jail/prison and "not believing" is a crime.

Somehow this is supposed to show error in my logic.  Your attempt fails because society doesn't imprison everyone by default.
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline median

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2014, 03:37:57 AM »
Do you realize how many strawmen you have set up to get knocked down?

I never said that atheists lack morals. I said they are borrowing their morals from the Christian worldview, considering there is no logical reason to be moral as an atheist. So the atheists who are moral must be borrowing from Christianity.

NOPE. Wrong again. Morality is about the minimization of unnecessary harm and the well being of conscious creatures. If you talk about anything else you aren't talking about morality. Sorry! You even practice this principle yourself. There is no borrowing Mr. wannabe presuppositionalist. There is plenty of reason to be moral. For example, IF you value life and IF you want to live in a healthy, happy, cooperative society then you will want to act in such a fashion that promotes the minimizing of unnecessary harm and promotes well being (i.e. - be moral). That is all that it takes to be moral b/c that is what morality is about. If you think it's about something else then please demonstrate your claims, don't just CLAIM them.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2014, 05:20:11 AM »
But, since atheists borrow from Christianity, they don't treat the disabled like that. But without God, logically those people are just mistakes of nature that are easily disposable.

Several points.

1) There could be no god, and Christians could have made the whole thing up.  Morality in anyone does not prove god, it only proves religion.
2) Atheists could have borrowed morality from Buddhists.  Christianity is irrelevant to worldwide morality.
3) I, and others, have given you several reasons why moral systems benefit society, which you have ignored to keep making this same tired "point". 
4) And finally, the entirety of your moral argument is that morals only carry weight because "god says so".  Since you cannot demonstrate that your god follows a moral system himself, you have no criteria to judge whether the morality god requires for man is objectively good or not.  So all your argument is for god-given morals is "might makes right" - which creates the paradox of a moral system being based on something that the system itself rejects.  Not to mention that "might makes right" is the part of atheist morality you most strongly oppose.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline wheels5894

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2014, 05:51:49 AM »
Aside from the obvious fact that moral have developed in various parts of the world and have similar ideals - suggesting that different gods agree on some things or that morals are a human construct and nothing to do with god - could you address this one, Skeptic?

With your god there are two possibilities -

1. Things are right because god says so and things are wrong because god says so.

2. There exists a set of absolute moral values and, in all his dealings with the world, god has to stick with these absolute values which decide if an action is right or wrong.

Now which describes the actions of your god, Skeptic?
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Aaron123

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2014, 10:16:18 AM »
Can we get back onto the OP question?

Thus far, we've only had a respond from one theist (who claim that atheists "should be" killing their parents, and "trampling" over the mentally and physically disabled), and he's unable to show that atheists are any worse than christians.  Keep in mind, this idea is something that should be easy to prove.

Anyone else up to it?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2014, 11:34:14 AM »
Can we get back onto the OP question?

Anyone else up to it?

I very much doubt it.  We should see much higher rates of morality among believers, because if god is everywhere, he is watching them all the time, and they know he is watching them all the time.  Like having a policeman in the room watching you, you simply wouldn't break the law.

The only way a believer could break a moral law is if for a minute or so they forget about god.  Just think about that a second.  This is the god that they claim is the biggest and most important thing in the universe.  He speaks to them  has a special relationship with them, he died for them.....and yet sometimes he goes so far from their mind that they sin, they act immorally, they break laws just bout as much as atheists do.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2014, 11:37:50 AM »
Do you realize how many strawmen you have set up to get knocked down?

I never said that atheists lack morals. I said they are borrowing their morals from the Christian worldview, considering there is no logical reason to be moral as an atheist. So the atheists who are moral must be borrowing from Christianity.

NOPE. Wrong again. Morality is about the minimization of unnecessary harm and the well being of conscious creatures. If you talk about anything else you aren't talking about morality. Sorry! You even practice this principle yourself. There is no borrowing Mr. wannabe presuppositionalist. There is plenty of reason to be moral. For example, IF you value life and IF you want to live in a healthy, happy, cooperative society then you will want to act in such a fashion that promotes the minimizing of unnecessary harm and promotes well being (i.e. - be moral). That is all that it takes to be moral b/c that is what morality is about. If you think it's about something else then please demonstrate your claims, don't just CLAIM them.

OK suppose someone thinks that humanity is a disease and wants to kill as many people as possible. There ARE people who think humanity is a disease.

Would this person be wrong? Why or why not? If he's wrong, why is he not allowed to hate humanity?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2014, 11:48:56 AM »
OK suppose someone thinks that humanity is a disease and wants to kill as many people as possible. There ARE people who think humanity is a disease.

Would this person be wrong? Why or why not? If he's wrong, why is he not allowed to hate humanity?

Perhaps we need to go back to first principles.  How do you define morality, skeptic?  Not asking you to quote an online dictionary, I want to know what you believe a moral system is.  Also, in the scenario you pose, how would that person define morality?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2014, 11:52:10 AM »
The thing is, Skeptic, that we are not talking about the occasional sociopath, for whom a god, or lack of it, would not make a difference.

You can talk about atheists "borrowing" the Christian sense of morality, but you are not answering the questions of why, if that is the ONLY source, there are societies which still hold similar morals without the Christian background. If you claim that this code is written in their minds/hearts or whatever, then why is it that they often manage to follow it so much better than those raised with a strict belief in the God of the Bible? Surely, even a "false" Christian would have a leg-up on getting at least some of the philosophy right. Yet, over and over we see higher rates of crime, divorce etc, in the Bible Belt.

And if atheists, too, are only "borrowing" the morality, how is it that THEY, in the vast majority, also manage to stay married, out of jail, be involved in charities, and any number of other things in greater percentages than Christians? How is it that those countries which are the most secular continually score highest in quality of life, without their citizens killing each other off, looting and raping to their hearts' content?


Offline median

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2014, 11:56:01 AM »
Do you realize how many strawmen you have set up to get knocked down?

I never said that atheists lack morals. I said they are borrowing their morals from the Christian worldview, considering there is no logical reason to be moral as an atheist. So the atheists who are moral must be borrowing from Christianity.

NOPE. Wrong again. Morality is about the minimization of unnecessary harm and the well being of conscious creatures. If you talk about anything else you aren't talking about morality. Sorry! You even practice this principle yourself. There is no borrowing Mr. wannabe presuppositionalist. There is plenty of reason to be moral. For example, IF you value life and IF you want to live in a healthy, happy, cooperative society then you will want to act in such a fashion that promotes the minimizing of unnecessary harm and promotes well being (i.e. - be moral). That is all that it takes to be moral b/c that is what morality is about. If you think it's about something else then please demonstrate your claims, don't just CLAIM them.

OK suppose someone thinks that humanity is a disease and wants to kill as many people as possible. There ARE people who think humanity is a disease.

Would this person be wrong? Why or why not? If he's wrong, why is he not allowed to hate humanity?

Thanks for dodging my challenge to you once again. Yes, he would be immoral (aka - 'wrong') b/c morality is about maximizing well being and therefore his actions, by definition, would be contrary to that end. If a man thinks humanity is 'a decease' and begins slaughtering everyone, then he is NOT being moral because he is NOT doing what is required to support well being for all.

For the second time, if you think morality is about something else then I challenge you to actually demonstrate your claims, not just claim them.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline median

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2014, 12:05:11 PM »
The thing is, Skeptic, that we are not talking about the occasional sociopath, for whom a god, or lack of it, would not make a difference.

You can talk about atheists "borrowing" the Christian sense of morality, but you are not answering the questions of why, if that is the ONLY source, there are societies which still hold similar morals without the Christian background. If you claim that this code is written in their minds/hearts or whatever, then why is it that they often manage to follow it so much better than those raised with a strict belief in the God of the Bible? Surely, even a "false" Christian would have a leg-up on getting at least some of the philosophy right. Yet, over and over we see higher rates of crime, divorce etc, in the Bible Belt.

And if atheists, too, are only "borrowing" the morality, how is it that THEY, in the vast majority, also manage to stay married, out of jail, be involved in charities, and any number of other things in greater percentages than Christians? How is it that those countries which are the most secular continually score highest in quality of life, without their citizens killing each other off, looting and raping to their hearts' content?

The more important point here is that this alleged 'God code of morality' that is "written on our hearts" cannot be so b/c he has already admitted that this God can violate his own rules (i.e. - genocide, rape, human sacrifice, and slavery are consistent with it's nature and, allegedly 'moral' for this Yahweh character). How exactly then is this gods 'nature' written on our hearts??? The truth is that it cannot be, because that idea is in direct conflict with this notion of Christian morality (which is supposedly based upon "God's nature"). But this "Gods" nature is NOT moral according to THEIR OWN STANDARDS. So they are hypocrits and liars - holding onto an assumed belief b/c it makes them feel comfortable and pacifies their credulity, gullibility, and fear of death and loneliness.

"God" is not their standard of morality - THEY ARE.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2014, 12:09:31 PM »
Skeptic, you're talking at us, not to us. You are saying that your view is absolutely correct and that no other discussion is necessary. You are making broad claims with only your opinion backing them, and telling us that there is no other explanation.

In the process, you are ignoring everything we say, even as you are attribute your many erroneous assumptions to us. Then you respond to what we didn't say, and judge us accordingly. That isn't even cute.

When Graybeard and others tell you that morality is about maximizing the well being of all, you misread it as maximizing the well being of the self, and everyone else be damned. You then attribute that selfish stance as the norm for atheists and respond with your absolutes. And then you stand around wondering why we can't see your truth. Which you don't understand isn't true.

This is not a conversation that we are having with you. It is you creating a lecture series that repeats itself every sentence. If you have no idea how to have a meaningful conversation with other human beings, you are the last person who should be espousing morality. For it appears that for all your high ideals, that you indeed care only about yourself. And that is something that you etched on your own heart.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 12:11:05 PM by ParkingPlaces »
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2014, 12:14:33 PM »
Thanks for dodging my challenge to you once again. Yes, he would be immoral (aka - 'wrong') b/c morality is about maximizing well being and therefore his actions, by definition, would be contrary to that end. If a man thinks humanity is 'a decease' and begins slaughtering everyone, then he is NOT being moral because he is NOT doing what is required to support well being for all.

For the second time, if you think morality is about something else then I challenge you to actually demonstrate your claims, not just claim them.

What if that person thinks it's moral to kill everyone?
Why is your morality better than his?
He would certainly not agree that morality is all about the well-being of others. He would say morality is about getting rid of the humans.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2014, 12:25:22 PM »
Do you realize how many strawmen you have set up to get knocked down?

I never said that atheists lack morals. I said they are borrowing their morals from the Christian worldview, considering there is no logical reason to be moral as an atheist. So the atheists who are moral must be borrowing from Christianity.

I never claimed that you said "atheists lack morals".  Though I did bring up that bit about parents killing.  That part is you, specifically.

Now then, can you (or anyone else) actually address the OP question?

Since I never said atheists lack morals, I guess the OP doesn't apply to me.

Now if God does not exist, then yes the world would basically be a free for all with the fittest winning. People with mental disabilities or physical disabilities would be trampled on.

But, since atheists borrow from Christianity, they don't treat the disabled like that. But without God, logically those people are just mistakes of nature that are easily disposable.

And Christians borrow from Jews/Hebrews, Buddhists, Jains, Hindus, etc., What's original in Christianity on "morality"? Nothing, is the answer.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline wheels5894

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Re: To all theists: what's the evidence that atheists are amoral?
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2014, 12:27:40 PM »
Thanks for dodging my challenge to you once again. Yes, he would be immoral (aka - 'wrong') b/c morality is about maximizing well being and therefore his actions, by definition, would be contrary to that end. If a man thinks humanity is 'a decease' and begins slaughtering everyone, then he is NOT being moral because he is NOT doing what is required to support well being for all.

For the second time, if you think morality is about something else then I challenge you to actually demonstrate your claims, not just claim them.



What if that person thinks it's moral to kill everyone?
Why is your morality better than his?
He would certainly not agree that morality is all about the well-being of others. He would say morality is about getting rid of the humans.

Hey, come on! You've been asked how you define morality. At least be polite enough to answer that before asking any more questions. Untill we know how you view morality, how can we answer you questions anyway.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)