Author Topic: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?  (Read 8190 times)

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Offline xyzzy

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #319 on: January 13, 2014, 09:56:13 AM »
Jesuis, perhaps you could back up a bit and provide some context?

It's ironic that you are latching onto this quote from Einstein. Why? Because it's taken out of the context of a series of debates about something Einstein -- incorrectly -- rejected.

Einstein was against certain concepts and theory of quantum mechanics as he was a determinist. He didn't want to accept the probabilistic implications inherent in quantum mechanics. We know now that he was mistaken. For someone who uses the word frequency with such gay abandon, it's baffling that you seem to be unaware of this point.

So, knock yourself out hanging your hat on a quote cherry picked from an area where Einstein was shown to be mistaken. Be my guest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Albert_Einstein#Determinism

Quote
You believe in a God who plays dice, and I in complete law and order in a world which objectively exists, and which I in a wildly speculative way, am trying to capture. I firmly believe, but I hope that someone will discover a more realistic way, or rather a more tangible basis than it has been my lot to find. Even the great initial success of the quantum theory does not make me believe in the fundamental dice game, although I am well aware that some of our younger colleagues interpret this as a consequence of senility.

Further, whenever Einstein did refer to a god, it was in the context of the god of Spinoza[1]

Now, put your beloved quote in the context above, and what does it tell you? That's not a rhetorical question, by the way.

Some other things that I'm not sure you've explained.

What do you think you are demonstrating with your quote from Einstein? Is he an authority outside of his field of expertise?

Then, which god is he talking about, and why?

If it's not your god, what is your point?

Frequency. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

What do you mean by frequency, as you use it so often almost as a kind of mantra?

I've seen you reference theism and brain frequencies. Does that apply to this conversation? Then, and most importantly, where can I read research papers on this subject that demonstrates the existence of a god, particularly your god?

Finally, do please show how your points apply to the context of the OP.
 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinozism
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 10:02:57 AM by xyzzy »
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Offline screwtape

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #320 on: January 13, 2014, 11:37:40 AM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. All our scientific instruments are based on fine tuning of the frequencies to that level of receptivity to prove that something is out there or in there.

You are talking out your ass.

also:
http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2012/8/15/albert-einstein-s-historic-1954-god-letter-handwritten-shortly-before-his-death
Quote
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.
...
For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions.
So sayeth Big Al.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #321 on: January 13, 2014, 01:41:26 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related.

Prove it.
No need to prove anything to you. The journey is yours to make. when a teacher sits in a history class he does not have to prove that Moses exists. He just needs to provide what is already known and unknown.

If you want to understand the science and build on it we need to start right here. Frequencies.

Utter shite, science is not just "frequencies", science makes models of reality.
I think you need to understand.
[/quote]
Or is it that sciences discovers the moes of reality and does not make anything but prove to the observer what he thought was right or not yet proven by said method. For instance the Higgs boson was thought to exist way back in time but not proved to exist until we have spent a lot of time and money on finding this God particle?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #322 on: January 13, 2014, 01:46:59 PM »
Jesuis, perhaps you could back up a bit and provide some context?

It's ironic that you are latching onto this quote from Einstein. Why? Because it's taken out of the context of a series of debates about something Einstein -- incorrectly -- rejected.

Einstein was against certain concepts and theory of quantum mechanics as he was a determinist. He didn't want to accept the probabilistic implications inherent in quantum mechanics. We know now that he was mistaken. For someone who uses the word frequency with such gay abandon, it's baffling that you seem to be unaware of this point.

So, knock yourself out hanging your hat on a quote cherry picked from an area where Einstein was shown to be mistaken. Be my guest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Albert_Einstein#Determinism

Quote
You believe in a God who plays dice, and I in complete law and order in a world which objectively exists, and which I in a wildly speculative way, am trying to capture. I firmly believe, but I hope that someone will discover a more realistic way, or rather a more tangible basis than it has been my lot to find. Even the great initial success of the quantum theory does not make me believe in the fundamental dice game, although I am well aware that some of our younger colleagues interpret this as a consequence of senility.

Further, whenever Einstein did refer to a god, it was in the context of the god of Spinoza[1]

Now, put your beloved quote in the context above, and what does it tell you? That's not a rhetorical question, by the way.

Some other things that I'm not sure you've explained.

What do you think you are demonstrating with your quote from Einstein? Is he an authority outside of his field of expertise?

Then, which god is he talking about, and why?

If it's not your god, what is your point?

Frequency. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

What do you mean by frequency, as you use it so often almost as a kind of mantra?

I've seen you reference theism and brain frequencies. Does that apply to this conversation? Then, and most importantly, where can I read research papers on this subject that demonstrates the existence of a god, particularly your god?

Finally, do please show how your points apply to the context of the OP.
 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinozism
Spinoza? So you accept that Einstein believed in the God Spinoza and that it exists?
Everything we see and hear are frequency related. That is not a mantra but a reality.
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Offline xyzzy

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #323 on: January 13, 2014, 01:50:14 PM »
Spinoza? So you accept that Einstein believed in the God Spinoza and that it exists?
Everything we see and hear are frequency related. That is not a mantra but a reality.

I asked you several questions related to your posts. I would appreciate you answering them, rather than trying to divert the conversation, and just repeating the part you were asked to explain.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool -- Richard Feynman
You are in a maze of twisty little religions, all alike -- xyzzy

Offline Quesi

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #324 on: January 13, 2014, 01:53:39 PM »
Golly, Jesuis.  I'm wondering if your Bible says anything about arrogance?

I'd be fascinated to hear your thoughts on the topic. 

Offline Jesuis

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #325 on: January 13, 2014, 01:59:28 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. All our scientific instruments are based on fine tuning of the frequencies to that level of receptivity to prove that something is out there or in there.

You are talking out your ass.
such wealth of information

also:
http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2012/8/15/albert-einstein-s-historic-1954-god-letter-handwritten-shortly-before-his-death
Quote

meaning? It proves what and to whom? If the man could not say what he wanted to say but said everything else to then what is this and what does it say about his mental state just before he died? What are most peoples mental state like just before their death?

The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.
...
For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions.
So sayeth Big Al.
The word God has various meanings and specific definitions and none of it is childish or superstitious by definition relative to the observer giving meaning to the word when he used it. History however about such word may give such a rise in meaning as it no longer applies to the observer but is recorded and passed on as stories.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #326 on: January 13, 2014, 02:05:59 PM »
Regardless, it was an excuse to kill. They weren't Christians. They were posers. Posers exist in everyday life within many categories.

If someone tells you "I'm a huge hockey fan. Michael Jordan was my favorite NHL player," then you know the person obviously is a poser pretending to be a hockey fan.
I doubt at that time the word atheist existed but what if it did? Would such people classify themselves as such?
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Offline bertatberts

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #327 on: January 13, 2014, 02:08:50 PM »

No need to prove anything to you. The journey is yours to make. 
The onus is on the one making the claim, so it is up to you to put up or shut up.
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline Jesuis

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #328 on: January 13, 2014, 02:11:06 PM »
Golly, Jesuis.  I'm wondering if your Bible says anything about arrogance?

I'd be fascinated to hear your thoughts on the topic.
You said "I'm wondering if your Bible says anything about arrogance"
You do not know me and should not be attributing such ignorance that I have a written a bible, but you know what they say - where there is ignorance their is arrogance. hope that answers that.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #329 on: January 13, 2014, 02:11:33 PM »
Or is it that sciences discovers the moes of reality and does not make anything but prove to the observer what he thought was right or not yet proven by said method. For instance the Higgs boson was thought to exist way back in time but not proved to exist until we have spent a lot of time and money on finding this God particle?

Hi Jesuis

The green text indicates I am acting as a moderator and not a participant in this discussion. 

This reply from you is dodging the point.  Please stay on topic.  Thanks.

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #330 on: January 13, 2014, 02:16:55 PM »
Or is it that sciences discovers the moes of reality and does not make anything but prove to the observer what he thought was right or not yet proven by said method.
The solution here is rather simple - have someone else replicate your results.

Quote
For instance the Higgs boson was thought to exist way back in time but not proved to exist until we have spent a lot of time and money on finding this God particle?
The Higgs boson was hypothesized to exist.  It's existence implies certain outcomes in reality; it's non-existence implies other outcomes in reality.

Does it exist?  Run some tests and observe reality.  If the outcomes in reality coincide with what you expected if the Higgs boson exists, that's a data point in support of the existence of the Higgs boson being true.  If the outcomes in reality coincide with what you expected if the Higgs boson did not exist, that's a data point in support of the existence of the Higgs boson being false.

Rinse, repeat, have other people rinse, repeat.  And that's where the time and money has gone.

What, would you rather we just pick a position on the existence of the Higgs boson and not bother testing whether or not that claim is true?

Honestly, you're totally free to question whether or not it is worthwhile to expend such resources to answering that question.  It's a valid question and deserves a response.  Personally, I'm ill-equipped to give you any response to that question - I do not have sufficient data insofar as what resources were expended, what other benefits such expenditures would give humanity, what other uses those resource would have gone towards, etc.  But that question has nothing to do with the truth-value of the objective claim 'The Higgs boson exists'.

.............

I typed this before seeing the moderator's indication that this is off topic.  Apologies, but I wanted to respond to it.  Remove this post if necessary[1].
 1. I don't know why I feel the need to add this. Mods certainly don't need my permission to enforce the rules.  Shutting up now.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline screwtape

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #331 on: January 13, 2014, 02:26:56 PM »
such wealth of information

What kind of reply do you think crackpot ideas warrant?  Did you expect me to take the time to clue you in on what science is and how it works and the sum of human understanding from the bottom up?  Sorry, Charlie.  Even if I were so inclined, I find it doubtful you would accept such generous and kindly effort.  You just don't strike me as the grateful type.

Plus, you know, you are only here to troll.  Just so you know, if this forum is still here tomorrow and if you are still posting in a trollish way, I will ban you. But if you become a major problem in the next 9 1/2 hours, I will ban you sooner.  Use that information as you will.

meaning?

Your appeal to Big Al is a lie.  You probably ought not lie. It makes baby jesus cry.[1]
Even if it wasn't, your argument is "Einstein said there was a god."  BFD.  The only reason anyone believes anything Einstein said was because he could back it up with data.  To date, no one has data on god. 

It proves what and to whom?

It proves you are misinformed (if we are being charitble) to anyone reading this thread.

The word God...

Don't argue with me about whether godbelief is childish.  That was a quote from Big Al.  From a letter he wrote.  In his own handwriting.  Those were his feelings on the matter.  I happened to agree.  But that's not the point.

 
 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_bear_false_witness_against_thy_neighbour
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #332 on: January 13, 2014, 03:34:31 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. All our scientific instruments are based on fine tuning of the frequencies to that level of receptivity to prove that something is out there or in there.

You are talking out your ass.
such wealth of information


"Talking out of your ass" is a crude humorous way of stating "You are making an unsupported assertion. You are repeating that assertion. You are detailing that assertion. It is my belief that you cannot support that assertion; You will never support that assertion; because that assertion is false or at the very least impossible to verify"

« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 04:27:39 PM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #333 on: January 13, 2014, 03:44:10 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. ... If you want to understand the science and build on it we need to start right here. Frequencies.
Fascinating. And what frequency is God on?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline xyzzy

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #334 on: January 13, 2014, 04:18:52 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. ... If you want to understand the science and build on it we need to start right here. Frequencies.
Fascinating. And what frequency is God on?

For all the useful information he's communicated so far, the answer might as well be contained here: http://goo.gl/2cSwj2
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool -- Richard Feynman
You are in a maze of twisty little religions, all alike -- xyzzy

Offline Ivellios

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #335 on: January 13, 2014, 04:27:23 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. ... If you want to understand the science and build on it we need to start right here. Frequencies.
Fascinating. And what frequency is God on?

For all the useful information he's communicated so far, the answer might as well be contained here: http://goo.gl/2cSwj2

That's so funny!

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Offline Jesuis

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #336 on: January 13, 2014, 04:46:28 PM »

No need to prove anything to you. The journey is yours to make. 
The onus is on the one making the claim, so it is up to you to put up or shut up.
I have not made any claims apart from what I said. Answers are provided but you are not understanding them." Put up and shut up" is all about a lack of wisdom and as such can be realised as nothing worthwhile more of an infantile response to a very big problem that is way over your present abilities it seems. Peace
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #337 on: January 13, 2014, 04:49:02 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. ... If you want to understand the science and build on it we need to start right here. Frequencies.
Fascinating. And what frequency is God on?
Good question. The frequency of life of course.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #338 on: January 13, 2014, 04:49:18 PM »
I have not made any claims apart from what I said. Answers are provided but you are not understanding them." Put up and shut up" is all about a lack of wisdom and as such can be realised as nothing worthwhile more of an infantile response to a very big problem that is way over your present abilities it seems.

And yet again, something a store from Medium would say, except in slighly more flowery language.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #339 on: January 13, 2014, 04:52:20 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. All our scientific instruments are based on fine tuning of the frequencies to that level of receptivity to prove that something is out there or in there.

You are talking out your ass.
such wealth of information


"Talking out of your ass" is a crude humorous way of stating "You are making an unsupported assertion. You are repeating that assertion. You are detailing that assertion. It is my belief that you cannot support that assertion; You will never support that assertion; because that assertion is false or at the very least impossible to verify"
TBH it is you just describing to us the resonating frequency of your mental state. It is your statement to own. When you evolve out of it we can have a higher level frequency discussion based on your higher intellect.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #340 on: January 13, 2014, 04:52:25 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. ... If you want to understand the science and build on it we need to start right here. Frequencies.
Fascinating. And what frequency is God on?
Good question. The frequency of life of course.

Where in the Bible will I find reference to frequency of God?  Or the frequency of life? 

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #341 on: January 13, 2014, 04:56:27 PM »
TBH it is you just describing to us the resonating frequency spiritual vibration of your mental state. It is your statement to own. When you evolve out of it we can have a higher level frequency spiritual vibration  discussion based on your higher intellect.

cross my palm with silver
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #342 on: January 13, 2014, 05:00:55 PM »
such wealth of information

What kind of reply do you think crackpot ideas warrant?  Did you expect me to take the time to clue you in on what science is and how it works and the sum of human understanding from the bottom up?  Sorry, Charlie.  Even if I were so inclined, I find it doubtful you would accept such generous and kindly effort.  You just don't strike me as the grateful type.

Plus, you know, you are only here to troll.  Just so you know, if this forum is still here tomorrow and if you are still posting in a trollish way, I will ban you. But if you become a major problem in the next 9 1/2 hours, I will ban you sooner.  Use that information as you will.

meaning?

Your appeal to Big Al is a lie.  You probably ought not lie. It makes baby jesus cry.[1]
Even if it wasn't, your argument is "Einstein said there was a god."  BFD.  The only reason anyone believes anything Einstein said was because he could back it up with data.  To date, no one has data on god. 

It proves what and to whom?

It proves you are misinformed (if we are being charitble) to anyone reading this thread.

The word God...

Don't argue with me about whether godbelief is childish.  That was a quote from Big Al.  From a letter he wrote.  In his own handwriting.  Those were his feelings on the matter.  I happened to agree.  But that's not the point.
 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_bear_false_witness_against_thy_neighbour
People in positions of power have always stifled free speech. As is observed. They did kill Jesus for knowing what he knew. Why would such wisdom be so worrying to the athests mongst us? What jesus knew is a frequency of thought and experience of knowing. All thoughts are measured as brain waves but this can go on for a long time if I had the time. Judging from the level of your intent it seems my time here is almost over. Thanks for the cross(threat) I will take it up the hill for you and your buddies to nail me to it. Your humanity is so great! Live long and prosper. Peace.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #343 on: January 13, 2014, 05:05:10 PM »
TBH it is you just describing to us the resonating frequency of your mental state. It is your statement to own. When you evolve out of it we can have a higher level frequency discussion based on your higher intellect.

Fargonabolts dismiss this claim.  The confulbation of raginestacies is contingent upon these statements, and, sadly, they fail to meet the criterion of agapologo-infinitum.  The details of green don't seem to jive with your thought processes.  The raginestacies, again, aren't frequent nor are they resonant.  They are electrical.  The vastness of gravitation, especially in regards to mental state, do nothing to show that the higher intellect is any better than the lower intellect.  Agapologo-finitium, or, at least, the frequency of agapologo-finitium, may give you some credence but it's a stretch.

That your frequency resonates with my mental state doesn't necessarily indicate that the cyclical return of the altitude is valid.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Jesuis

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #344 on: January 13, 2014, 05:05:55 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. ... If you want to understand the science and build on it we need to start right here. Frequencies.
Fascinating. And what frequency is God on?
Good question. The frequency of life of course.

Where in the Bible will I find reference to frequency of God?  Or the frequency of life? 

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy
I did not quote the bible in making this sentence - like the bible does not have the words DNA in it but that vibrates at a certain frequency so too does the higgs boson.  I have been threatened and I may loose the opportunity to speak. Already called a troll by a moderator. Maybe I should go. Good luck.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Ivellios

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #345 on: January 13, 2014, 05:06:12 PM »
Live long and prosper.

You are a Star Trek junkie aren't you? Can you also split your fingers as Spock does?

Offline Hatter23

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #346 on: January 13, 2014, 05:08:17 PM »

Don't argue with me about whether godbelief is childish.  That was a quote from Big Al.  From a letter he wrote.  In his own handwriting.  Those were his feelings on the matter.  I happened to agree.  But that's not the point.
People in positions of power have always stifled free speech. As is observed. They did kill Jesus for knowing what he knew. Why would such wisdom be so worrying to the athests mongst us? What jesus knew is a frequency of thought and experience of knowing. All thoughts are measured as brain waves but this can go on for a long time if I had the time. Judging from the level of your intent it seems my time here is almost over. Thanks for the cross(threat) I will take it up the hill for you and your buddies to nail me to it. Your humanity is so great! Live long and prosper. Peace.

Appeal to pity, Non sequitur(AND HOW), Rhetorical begging the question

Do you have anything other than fallacies?



An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: MadBunny - why is murder a sin but God ordering destruction of someone not?
« Reply #347 on: January 13, 2014, 05:08:50 PM »
Everything about anything and God is frequency related. ... If you want to understand the science and build on it we need to start right here. Frequencies.
Fascinating. And what frequency is God on?
Good question. The frequency of life of course.

Where in the Bible will I find reference to frequency of God?  Or the frequency of life? 

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy
I did not quote the bible in making this sentence - like the bible does not have the words DNA in it but that vibrates at a certain frequency so too does the higgs boson.  I have been threatened and I may loose the opportunity to speak. Already called a troll by a moderator. Maybe I should go. Good luck.

Sorry you may need to go. 

Presuming you are still active on this website, how did you arrive at the idea of a frequency of God or a frequency of Life since it is not from the Bible?

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama