I have never, ever understood why Christians moan and whine about persecution.
Could it be because no one, whether theist or atheist, likes to be raped, pillaged, beaten, tortured, denied basic human rights, or have their property taken from them?
Did Jesus complain on the cross? Did various martyrs complain? If you die/suffer for your faith is that not, like Islam, sufficient to take you to heaven? Most religions agree it is glorious, so nothing is lost, is it? A pleasure to die and suffer.
And is not the whole point of religion to explain the “awfulness” on Earth? Were Earth Paradise, what point Paradise?
But talking about a subject and discussing how terrible it is, is not necessarily moaning and whining.
If it is foretold, and you join knowing it to be so, should you complain at all no matter how mildly?
It is probably no surprise to you that many who call themselves "Christians" actually don't know what is in the book that they profess they believe, so persecution to them is a strange concept.
I am glad to have corresponded with someone who knows what God means exactly. I have heard many, many others say the same thing. But a little proof that you and you only are right, would be reassuring.
If everyone stopped persecuting Christians, would that not mean that Paul knew nothing and was making it up?No, it would mean that Jesus had returned for the 2nd Coming, because that's the only way persecution of Christians will come to an end.
You mean: 2 Thessalonians 2:2-10 Ha! And that at the cost of 2.8 million dead. Is it worth it? "I am gzusfreke and I endorse this message."
2 Chronicles 15:13 Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. Do you know the context surrounding this verse? the Jews were putting to death anyone who did not worship God. But it wasn't Christians doing it.
Of course, in earlier centuries this would have seen you roasting on a stake in the market square.
It is not that blaming the Jews was frowned upon following the fraudulent insertion of Matthew:27:25: No, it is because you have denied the Trinity.
Even as Yahweh strode through the Old Testament, He was in fact The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, wasn’t He? All that was done in Yahweh’s name, was done in Christ’s. This presents a problem to your next statement:
Christians don't have a theocratic nation and have never been told to kill anyone because they don't worship God or Jesus.
The Jews not accepting Christ made absolutely no difference even if Yahweh, the tribal god, had not mentioned His Son
: Jesus was there, wasn't He? So which way was He voting?
No, many Christians have gone into areas where Yahweh is not worshiped and given their lives (Steve Saint and Jim Elliot are good examples) so that the Gospel may go forth and bring redemption from sin to people who had no hope.
Well, of course you are assuming that the native, whoever they were, could not receive “salvation
” from their own gods or indeed had gods. You are also dismissing their gods with the same evidence that I use you dismiss yours – and yet you claim I am wrong.
I was interested to read that Steve Saint was paralysed so that God could show how powerful he was, and Jim Elliot was persecuted to death. It is remarkable that belief in an invisible friend will compel some deluded people to do that, isn’t it?
Did you ever wonder what would have happened if the Huaorani had come to Detroit to evangelise? Of course you haven’t.
You have little conception of the damage such people do to the fragile culture of indigenous tribes: why on earth can they not be left alone to pursue their own culture? It is fortunate that at least the Brazilian government has prohibited such mindless vandalism and imperialistic arseholes. (You will note I am passionate about this.)
2 Thessalonians 1:8 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" Again, a text without a context is a pretext.
Oke’li-doh’keli! Have I mentioned how much I appreciate these “Ned Flanderisms”? I collect them.
This verse is not talking about Christians taking vengeance, it is about God exacting judgment on unbelievers on the day of Christ's return.
So, instead of persecuting, on this occasion, the moral Christian simply agrees to the death of, as I say, one-third of mankind?
I honestly do not believe you have thought of what your superstitions involve. It was OK when genocide was "de rigeur" but not now.
It seems there is a dichotomy between your Gods’ actions and your actions. But you approve of His and do yours. As members, you cannot just step aside from your leader: you support The Party of God.
And Christians themselves? They wish they were as united as the Jews or Muslims (See Galatians 3:28) –that is why there are missionaries and evangelists and enthusiastic amateurs. And why would they want that? Power? God’s Law? A Borg?
Given that Yahweh wants no part in democracy, how do you feel about that? What will happen if you are not in charge to tell them how to be Christians? The Crusades all over again? Cortez? The Albegensians, the Knights Templar? Witches? All the other heretics done to death in the name of the triune Yahweh?
But let us move to the real world in which you know atheists and Muslims get a bad press: all you need do is look at the Tea Party to see the type of narrow-minded, rabble who say they are Christians. Now, you might say, “Well they are not Christian.” I say, "(i) No True Scotsman (ii) even if they aren’t, look what Christianity has done to them."
Christianity has given the USA a bad name. The laughable attempts to eradicate the teaching of evolution, the promotion of creationism, the myth of the flood, Jesus on a Dinosaur with an M-15 and all the other sad commentaries at which the world laughs – but the persecuted don’t give up.
So, in this lesson we have learned that
The God of the OT and the God of the NT are the same. Whatever the one did, the other two did, too.
That the few million that were killed in the OT in the name of Yahweh are nothing to the 2.8 Billion (and rising) that Jesus will kill.
Christians look forward to this. If you are not part of the solution, are you part of the problem?
It seems like some, not all, Christians are the “Wait till your father gets home!” type. Only he isn’t coming…