Author Topic: Former theists - does this fit?  (Read 253 times)

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Offline gzusfreke

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Former theists - does this fit?
« on: December 23, 2013, 10:49:04 PM »
J.I. Packer: “If our theology does not quicken the conscience and soften the heart, it actually hardens both; if it does not encourage the commitment of faith, it reinforces the detachment of unbelief; if it fails to promote humility, in inevitably feeds pride.” (*Quest for Godliness*, 15 [HT: JT])

Former theists, do you think that your theology (at the time you thought you were a theist) is what led to you de-converting?
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Former theists - does this fit?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2014, 10:58:17 PM »
Reading the bible, then realizing that no All-Knowing All-Loving god had anything to do with it. Simply written by sexist, racist, warmongering, bronze age, superstitious goat herders.

Want a wife? Kill everyone in her village and "take" her after giving her a month of mourning.
Kidnap one and thank Stockholm syndrome, she's all yours!
Ask a girl out and she turn you down? Just rape her! If you are not caught, she gets stoned to death for not being a virgin. If you're caught, you pay the victimized father 50 shekels for loosing the right to negotiate her price, and she's your wife for life. Take that be-otch!

Menstration? After a week of exile she must let a priest play gynecologist, buy a dove for the forgiveness of her sin[1], then the final dove as thanksgiving for being allowed to return to society.

Child birth?

Boy - Be exiled a week, perform some blood ritual and child gets circumcised, get exiled a month, upon return: if poor, do the dove thing, if not poor buy lamb for atonement.

Girl -  Be exiled 2 weeks, perform some blood ritual, get exiled for two months,  if poor, do the dove thing, if not poor buy lamb for atonement.

If a woman catches her husband with another woman and kills him, she is to be put down like an oxen that gored a man. (Because this is not Adultry, but infedelity[2]) If a man catches his wife with another man, and kills her. It is his right as she is his property, and obligation because it is the law for Adultry. See, biblical definition isn't anyone who is married having sex with someone they're not, as they'll have you believe these days, but defined by having sex with a woman that is married to another man.

Divorce: Absolutely not under any circumstance!

Oh ****! Didn't know they would lynch Moses! I, who am the same yesterday, today and forever, am changing my mind so I don't loose Moses, rather than showing my All-Powerfulness by raising him from the dead then telling them to STFU. WAIT! Hold it! Stop I said! YHWH changed his mind!

Infedelity! It's the only reason for divorce that God will recognize! But remember, if the man remarries, Way to go! If the woman remarries, every time she lays with her new husband she's comitting adultry against her first husband, for as long as he shall live.

-------------------------

This is just scratching the surface on the sexism. I could keep going with other things like the scientific fails and everything else, it would just take me 66 books to do it.

I guess you could say theology has something to do with it. My moral compass is better than that. I know the difference between right and wrong, and I don't need a book that promotes slavery and rape to tell me.
 1. and the priest eats it for dinner, or "dessert"
 2. as long as the woman is unmarried
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 11:03:22 PM by Ivellios »

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Former theists - does this fit?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2014, 12:53:24 AM »
J.I. Packer: “If our theology does not quicken the conscience and soften the heart, it actually hardens both; if it does not encourage the commitment of faith, it reinforces the detachment of unbelief; if it fails to promote humility, in inevitably feeds pride.” (*Quest for Godliness*, 15 [HT: JT])

Former theists, do you think that your theology (at the time you thought you were a theist) is what led to you de-converting?
I notice that Mr. Packer makes no mention of concepts like 'true' or 'false' in that quote.

That is, in essence, what led me to de-conversion.  Such little regard for caring about whether claims are actually true...started to get a tad too frustrating.  Simply put, I left my religion because the claims that my religion made did not appear to be true.

It's the same reason that I'm not in the 'Ice Cubes on Venus Fan Club'; maybe they treat their members well, maybe they treat them badly, maybe they're mean to other people, maybe they're really really nice, but it doesn't really matter - THERE ARE NO ICE CUBES ON VENUS.

gzusfreke, I would be curious as to what your thoughts are to Mr. Packer's line here:
Quote
if it does not encourage the commitment of faith
What do you suppose he means by that?
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Offline Nam

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Re: Former theists - does this fit?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2014, 01:09:00 AM »
J.I. Packer: “If our theology does not quicken the conscience and soften the heart, it actually hardens both; if it does not encourage the commitment of faith, it reinforces the detachment of unbelief; if it fails to promote humility, in inevitably feeds pride.” (*Quest for Godliness*, 15 [HT: JT])

Former theists, do you think that your theology (at the time you thought you were a theist) is what led to you de-converting?


Reading the Bible and realizing it's a book of hate, bigotry, sexism, racism, etc., masquerading as a book of love, and peace, is what got me stop being a Christian. Learning about other religions after that, and realizing they're all, basically the same trite, made me stop being a theist.

-Nam
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 01:11:14 AM by Nam »
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Online SevenPatch

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Re: Former theists - does this fit?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2014, 02:38:59 AM »
J.I. Packer: “If our theology does not quicken the conscience and soften the heart, it actually hardens both; if it does not encourage the commitment of faith, it reinforces the detachment of unbelief; if it fails to promote humility, in inevitably feeds pride.” (*Quest for Godliness*, 15 [HT: JT])

Former theists, do you think that your theology (at the time you thought you were a theist) is what led to you de-converting?

I don't think the first and third part of the quote from J.I. Packer relate to de-converting but rather are symptoms of theists.

The second part of the quote is probably true.  I place my faith in people and things that earn or deserve my trust based on reasonable justification.  The book of Christianity fails in every way to earn my trust nor does it deserve it after I have read most of it in order to make a reasonable justification (one way or the other).

Even without theism, I could have remained a deist however deep thought on the subject left me with the conclusion that even deism is unlikely.

The reality is that the human race would be far better in every way without any belief in any god.
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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Former theists - does this fit?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2014, 06:40:57 AM »
J.I. Packer: “If our theology does not quicken the conscience and soften the heart, it actually hardens both; if it does not encourage the commitment of faith, it reinforces the detachment of unbelief; if it fails to promote humility, in inevitably feeds pride.” (*Quest for Godliness*, 15 [HT: JT])

Former theists, do you think that your theology (at the time you thought you were a theist) is what led to you de-converting?

Absolutely! That's just how it was! I started a theology degree course - well I had actually done a couple of years part-time- and spend 4 years studying the bible and theology - in the original languages of course.  When one includes study of the dead sea scrolls and the various versions of the OT books it doesn't take a lot to realize that the bible is a book written by men, redacted by men (probably priests who got there living from pushing the bible!) and finally enshrined as a holy book by bishops.

The thing is, if the author of the bible is men and not gods (yes, gods - just notice how many there are in the OT) then the reason to believe in gods disappears. The bible, like other holy books is written by men and reflects the values and ideas of the people at the time the text was written. Surely a god, wanting people to know about himself, would manage something a bit more advanced that what is in the various holy books - the things people already knew.

So, yes, study theology to get unhooked from religion is my message
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Former theists - does this fit?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2014, 11:21:59 PM »
Just because I started questioning religion's validity was because of the fact the supposed custodians of morality did immoral things doesn't change the fact that those questions had no answers that weren't smoke and mirrors.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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