If you are going to tax anyone, it should be on "disposable income" only, not gross or net income.
Tithe is not a tax. But yes, it would be nice if the government only taxed my disposable income.
As an atheist, I have no objections to charity per se, although, in this day and age, charity should not be needed, as laws and the welfare state should cover the needs of the people and justice for all.
How's that working out at present?
However, I prefer government taxes as they don't come with any dogma attached, neither do they perpetuate myths and you have one day every 4 or five years when you can vote.
Apples and oranges.
We still have this odd idea of money 'for god'. This god doesn't ever actually tame any of it - he, as defined hardly needs it.
Correct. Money, like most things humans do, is for humans. We give thanks for the gifts God has given us by returning some of it to assist in His ministry on Earth, through funding the Church so it can continue to minister to believers and through helping the less fortunate.
I have never understood whay churches can't just plainly say that one needs to pay a membership subscription - golf clubs don't ask for money for god do they? So why should a church - a human insitution, albeit one devoted to worship of a diety, not do the same?
Because we believe God's message and the faith community should be accessible to anyone for free. A subscription creates a financial barrier that is counterproductive to that belief.
another little point.
ever since i left the church and stopped wasting my money i have,
Got a higher paying job
Brought a house, i was gifted $10,000 from my grandmother. - funny how i diddnt need god for that??
i have a son
i have true friends (not a church "family" who abandon you if you leave church)
i am more intelligent as i read more than the bible
i have world and life experience
Now all of these in my opinion are major hurdles in life. they are all achieveable without god as it was when i left church that all this was achieveable.
while i was wasting all my spare money on tithe i was not able to do this.
All achievable without God, eh? So if I were to become an atheist tomorrow, my grandmother would suddenly have $10,000 to give me? If I were to convince all her grandchildren to become atheists, would she suddenly have $160,000 to spread out amongst us?
Or maybe you achieved it by living with her for a year and her seeing how hard you and your wife worked. At $10,000 per year, that means my family has achieved about $240,000 or so from her. On her current Social Security benefits, about how long do you think we will have to wait to achieve this monetary bonus from her?
- Am engaged
- Recently got a higher paying job
- Will likely be buying a house in the next couple years
- Plan to have kids
- Have true friends
- Am generally considered of above average intelligence
- Have world and life experience
And not for a second do I try to delude myself into thinking I did any of that on my own. You think you earned those all on your "own merit?"
Yes, you got your better paying job by getting off your butt and looking. And this did not happen in a vacuum. You walked into that new job with an education paid for by other people, skills that you learned due to that education, and experience that you gained from other jobs using your education and skills. And of course, your education was dependent on where you lived and what schools you had access to growing up. And you had nice clothes to wear to the interview and were able to take a shower so you wouldn't smell and could drive yourself over there so you weren't late because you already had privilege before you ever stepped in the door of your new job.
Flip a coin. If it's tails, your starting difficulty is no education with a salary of less than $2.50 per day.
What percent of hard-working people out there can afford to buy a new house and get a convenient $10,000 bonus from a relative at the same time? The house that is, by the way, almost certainly being subsidized by your government in some fashion. What percent of the roughly 100 billion people in the planet's history had any sort of access at all to artificial reproduction, let alone the resources to pay for it?
I'm glad that you were able to break free of your rough childhood hardships such as not seeing enough movies or not enjoying bagpipe music. If your biggest issue with your childhood is that you were overly sheltered by your parents, you're still coming out ahead of 50% of childhoods spent in poverty, 33% of children with inadequate housing, or the 20% of children without water. You didn't have to grow up worrying whether your house would be bombed or your parents would be shot or whether you'd eat the next day or whether your next illness would kill you. You didn't have to worry about spending your childhood as a soldier.
And I'm betting your family was at least somewhat supportive in helping you transition from childhood into adulthood.
In short, you and I (and most other members of this forum) are among the most privileged people
in the history of the world. The idea that we all earned our own way to the top is downright insane.
Just about everything I have is a blessing. I would not be where I am without so many other factors in my life, and I don't deserve any of it. I have so much more than nearly everyone who ever lived, despite many of them working much harder than me with a lot fewer resources and overcoming much more adversity to a degree that I can't even imagine. So no, I'm not offended with my Church suggests
that I give a small percentage of that back, if for no other reason than for me to recognize that I was never entitled to it in the first place.
Work hard and you will achieve anything you want.
So you don't believe in God, who may or may not exist, but you believe in the American Dream, which is easily debunked with even a casual glance at social mobility trends over the past several decades?