Author Topic: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?  (Read 802 times)

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Offline Aaron123

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Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« on: November 07, 2013, 11:03:25 AM »
During bibletime, god made it very plain that he existed.  Back then, his existence was a fact of life, much in a "water is wet" sort of way.

Yet, his so-called followers kept changing gods all the time.  We see this in exodus, where they build and worship a golden calf, even though they just witnessed an unambiguous miracle of god just a few days ago (or a few weeks; whatever).  This is a theme in Judges, where god punishes his "followers" for abandoning him and worshiping new gods.  Repeatedly.  Heck, I think even Solomon fell into this trap, even though he had god-granted wisdom. 

Keep in mind, all this happened while god's existence was obvious and unambiguous.  Nowadays, god's existence is not obvious and unambiguous.  We never hear god speaking to us, we never see unambiguous miracles today.  Heck, his followers can't even agree on what his personality is suppose to be like.  Kind and caring?  Wrathful?  There's like, at least 38,000 different answers.

So why do we not worship new gods every week?  Why didn't we worship Baal last week, and worship Thor this week?  Where are our plans to worship Apollo?  When is "worship Ra week"?  Why do we not see this sort of "worship chaos" like they did back in bibletime?  You'd think that without god's continuous presence, things would be even worse, but it's not.  Why is that?
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Offline neopagan

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 11:27:17 AM »
Hell, YHWH couldn't even keep his creation in HEAVEN from rebelling against his perfect plans...
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Offline Jag

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 12:01:58 PM »
I think "we" are. Ok, they. Look at how much SPAG we see here every day. Every single one of them is worshiping their own god, and he changes with their changes.

38,000 denominations in christianity alone. Granted it certainly has the worst case of MPD/Dis-associative Disorder of the three, but Judaism and Islam have a multiple sect each as well, just nothing close to the splits within Christianity.

And before someone hand waves it away as "minor differences of opinion/interpretation" at least 38,000 individuals saw these "minor differences" as significant enough to convince or coerce other people into joining them in a new break-away church.  Still gonna call that "minor", with a straight face?
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2013, 12:06:00 PM »
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Offline neopagan

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2013, 01:01:59 PM »
  Why is that?

jesus.

I thought it was demons?  This is so hard to keep straight.
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 02:35:04 PM »
I think "we" are. Ok, they. Look at how much SPAG we see here every day. Every single one of them is worshiping their own god, and he changes with their changes.

38,000 denominations in christianity alone. Granted it certainly has the worst case of MPD/Dis-associative Disorder of the three, but Judaism and Islam have a multiple sect each as well, just nothing close to the splits within Christianity.

Thing is; why does it has to be 38,000 different take on the same god?   :o

At least work the denominations on a different god for change.  How about getting 38,000 denominations of Zeus?


Quote
I thought it was demons?  This is so hard to keep straight.

Are we talking about different demons, or 38,000 denominations of the same demon?
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Offline William

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 03:02:13 PM »
So why do we not worship new gods every week?

Good thought provoking question  :)
I can think of a couple of possible explanations - some or all of which may contribute.

1) We are getting pretty smart as a species (accumulated knowledge) so we don't need new gods to explain things to ourselves.

2)  People with schizotypal tendencies and obsessive compulsive disorders tend to get help from psychologists and psychiatrists rather than being put into tribal shaman roles where they used to invent new gods and ways of worship.

3) The existing god-memes have evolved extremely powerful hooks (child initiation, shunning apostates etc) to keep perpetuating within the families of those already trapped by belief.  The 38000 sects are just evidence of the meme-process at work - morphing pieces that don't have the right appeal to certain audiences at the present time.

4) There are plenty convenient substitutes for religion - people can get a spiritual fix  &) from any new age bullshit, paganism, crystals, clairvoyance, reiki, motivational speakers, etc.
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2013, 01:37:26 AM »
3) The existing god-memes have evolved extremely powerful hooks (child initiation, shunning apostates etc) to keep perpetuating within the families of those already trapped by belief.  The 38000 sects are just evidence of the meme-process at work - morphing pieces that don't have the right appeal to certain audiences at the present time.

Didn't they already have all that stuff in place 3,000+ years ago?  Not only that, but they had plain, unambiguous evidence of god himself in action.  None of this "spiritual happening" BS.  None of this "look at the design of a banana" BS.  The real deal.  Working right in front of us, in plain sight.  Back then, he didn't "spiritually" turn the water into blood.  The water turned into blood, for real. (whose DNA was in that blood, I wonder)  So how does this constant worship-switching even make sense?

Indoctrination + unambiguous proof of god = constant god-switching.

Indoctrination + no evidence of god's existence = sticks with only one god for life.

So... when they started worshiping the golden calf, god shouldn't had done anything.  He should've left well enough alone, and eventually, those same people would've stopped with the calf, and stuck with Yahweh for good.  Over 3,000 lives were needlessly wasted that day.  You'd think an omnipotence being would know better.   :o
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Offline William

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 02:08:52 AM »
3) The existing god-memes have evolved extremely powerful hooks .....

Didn't they already have all that stuff in place 3,000+ years ago? 

Well the books we have now read as if certain things were in place back then - but were these same books in place at the time?
Things that work in favour of the memes have been engineered back into the scriptures over time.
And then we have all the dogma and excusiology external to the scriptures - constantly evolving and totally massive in comparison to the scriptures themselves  :)


Not only that, but they had plain, unambiguous evidence of god himself in action.  None of this "spiritual happening" BS.  None of this "look at the design of a banana" BS.  The real deal.  Working right in front of us, in plain sight.  Back then, he didn't "spiritually" turn the water into blood.  The water turned into blood, for real. (whose DNA was in that blood, I wonder)  So how does this constant worship-switching even make sense?
I have no alternative but to concede this very well made point  :)
Apparently the evidence modern atheists so earnestly seek didn't count for shit back then when it was abundant  :o
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 02:28:11 AM »
Hell, YHWH couldn't even keep his creation in HEAVEN from rebelling against his perfect plans...

Consequence of free will.

Of course God could have stopped them. But, he grants free will.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline William

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2013, 02:44:44 AM »
Of course God could have stopped them. But, he grants free will.

Or God floods the sinful fuckers, or bombs them with fire, or helps Jephthah slaughter them, or strikes people with plague, or turns them to salt ... or promises them eternal punishment by fire  :o :o :o :o
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Offline Ataraxia

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2013, 02:48:19 AM »
Hell, YHWH couldn't even keep his creation in HEAVEN from rebelling against his perfect plans...

Consequence of free will.

Of course God could have stopped them. But, he grants free will.

Then why doesn't he leave us alone to exercise it?
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2013, 03:51:26 AM »
Hell, YHWH couldn't even keep his creation in HEAVEN from rebelling against his perfect plans...

Consequence of free will.

Of course God could have stopped them. But, he grants free will.

In other words, heaven isn't much better than what we have right now.  There'll be wars, sinning, and all other kinds of bad things.   :o

Well, except murder, since we'll be dead already.
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Offline neopagan

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2013, 09:14:44 AM »
Hell, YHWH couldn't even keep his creation in HEAVEN from rebelling against his perfect plans...

Consequence of free will.

Of course God could have stopped them. But, he grants free will.

Please cite the passage you are referencing where god granted his angels free will...  Free will to marry, to have sex, to play soccer - for example...?  I'd like to see the passage
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Offline Mrjason

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2013, 09:21:22 AM »
Please cite the passage you are referencing where god granted his angels free will... <snip> ...to play soccer - for example...?  I'd like to see the passage

It's all here - http://www.mathedpage.org/conics/soccer/#id3344279846

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2013, 09:27:31 AM »
So why do we not worship new gods every week?  Why didn't we worship Baal last week, and worship Thor this week?  Where are our plans to worship Apollo?  When is "worship Ra week"?  Why do we not see this sort of "worship chaos" like they did back in bibletime?  You'd think that without god's continuous presence, things would be even worse, but it's not.  Why is that?

Communications, I think.  Way back when Baal was mighty, news travelled at the speed of donkey.  Chances of Ibrahim the peasant receiving the word on the gods of Ragnar were pretty small.  It was easy for each little tribe to invent their own gods and worship them happily because they never heard of any others.

Flash forward to more reliable communications, and the "big" god memes have spread so far and wide that its next to impossible to grow to adulthood without hearing about your nations's favourite god.  You're raised in it, you grow up with it, and so when you reject it, you generally reject the whole god-idea, rather than say "Yahweh proved himself false - I will instead worship Baphomet who I believe is a FAR more likely proposition".  Back then, you didn't stop worshipping Bibble beauase of the evidence against gods, you converted to Wibble instead because one was as "real" as the other, but Wibble's followers were waving pointy things at you.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
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Offline DrPancake

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2013, 09:38:14 AM »
I think it's a case of monopoly - The big religions have the market mostly cornered, like Viacom and Warner. Not much room for a new guy. Though I'm sure there's still plenty of new ones popping around here and there, but their chances of ever getting "big" are very small.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 09:51:56 AM by DrPancake »

Offline neopagan

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2013, 09:51:27 AM »
DrP - I agree.  When the biggies have established their dominant religions, there's really no chance of a new god of the day making much progress (especially with no verifiable magic).

It's kind of like what we see with the "cupcake[1]" stores - a few years ago, making fancy, overpriced, cupcake of the day desserts were big business and there seemed to be one popping up on every corner.  Now, there are a couple specialty cupcake stores and the others are long gone - or have moved on to the next hot item (around here, it's "Vaping").
 1. or frozen yogurt, video stores, coffee shops
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2013, 11:11:04 AM »
Though I'm sure there's still plenty of new ones popping around here and there, but their chances of ever getting "big" are very small.

...unless the emperor makes one of them the official religion of the empire...

and I don't like cupcakes.
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Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2014, 10:44:51 PM »
During bibletime, god made it very plain that he existed.  Back then, his existence was a fact of life, much in a "water is wet" sort of way.

Yet, his so-called followers kept changing gods all the time.  We see this in exodus, where they build and worship a golden calf, even though they just witnessed an unambiguous miracle of god just a few days ago (or a few weeks; whatever).  This is a theme in Judges, where god punishes his "followers" for abandoning him and worshiping new gods.  Repeatedly.  Heck, I think even Solomon fell into this trap, even though he had god-granted wisdom. 

Keep in mind, all this happened while god's existence was obvious and unambiguous.  Nowadays, god's existence is not obvious and unambiguous.  We never hear god speaking to us, we never see unambiguous miracles today.  Heck, his followers can't even agree on what his personality is suppose to be like.  Kind and caring?  Wrathful?  There's like, at least 38,000 different answers.

So why do we not worship new gods every week?  Why didn't we worship Baal last week, and worship Thor this week?  Where are our plans to worship Apollo?  When is "worship Ra week"?  Why do we not see this sort of "worship chaos" like they did back in bibletime?  You'd think that without god's continuous presence, things would be even worse, but it's not.  Why is that?

It's because those people believed in various gods. The dude who wrote that was imagining all of these miraculous, mind-blowing events and painted the picture that these polytheists witnessed all of these events by a single awesome god, but for some reason chose to go and worship nonsense gods[1].

This obvious lame story-telling is wide open for all to see. Good thread.



I think my first taste of a killer argument like this came from about 7:28 into this video:




 1. Like today's Christian god who is nowhere to be found. But, back in the day, Boy, this god would show up and put on a spectacle(1 Kings 18:16-40).
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Offline jrtaylor

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2014, 01:27:40 AM »
3) The existing god-memes have evolved extremely powerful hooks (child initiation, shunning apostates etc) to keep perpetuating within the families of those already trapped by belief.  The 38000 sects are just evidence of the meme-process at work - morphing pieces that don't have the right appeal to certain audiences at the present time.

Didn't they already have all that stuff in place 3,000+ years ago?  Not only that, but they had plain, unambiguous evidence of god himself in action.  None of this "spiritual happening" BS.  None of this "look at the design of a banana" BS.  The real deal.  Working right in front of us, in plain sight.  Back then, he didn't "spiritually" turn the water into blood.  The water turned into blood, for real. (whose DNA was in that blood, I wonder)  So how does this constant worship-switching even make sense?

Indoctrination + unambiguous proof of god = constant god-switching.
So the constant god-switching is just part of a contrived story too?  Pretty clever.



Offline penfold

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2014, 03:07:47 AM »
Heck, I think even Solomon fell into this trap, even though he had god-granted wisdom. 

I love the Solomon example. The problem is that he is an awesome king: he enters into alliances with Egypt and Tyre (1 Kings 3 & 5); he sets up a civil service and administers justice efficiently (1 Kings 3 & 4); he engages in a policy of encouraging international trade ( 1 Kings 5 & 10); manages a mammoth building program (1 Kings 6 - 8). The end result is a happy population, a reign without war (this alone is a f*cking amazing achievement for the time) and a flourishing economy (1 Kings 10 - 12).

However he also worships multiple Gods: He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the Lord; he did not follow the Lord completely, as David his father had done. On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. He did the same for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and offered sacrifices to their gods. - 1 Kings 11:5-8

So what does all-powerful jealous YHWH do? Nothing. Despite clearly establishing in Exodus that if you worship other Gods you will suffer, this does not happen to Solomon. He ends his days peacefully with his large, prosperous, nation intact.

Could it be that the following the commandments of YHWH is less important than competent leadership skills? Surely not....
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 03:14:04 AM by penfold »
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2014, 12:03:03 PM »
So what does all-powerful jealous YHWH do? Nothing. Despite clearly establishing in Exodus that if you worship other Gods you will suffer, this does not happen to Solomon. He ends his days peacefully with his large, prosperous, nation intact.

Could it be that the following the commandments of YHWH is less important than competent leadership skills? Surely not....

It's been a while since I've read the story, but as I recall, god's plan was to punish Solomon's descendents for his actions.  A dick move, to be sure, but a far cry from "nothing".
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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2014, 01:15:29 PM »
I think both America and Merica have more "gods" than people realize. I don’t care how Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, or atheist one is, money is more important than faith. Because Jesus don’t pay rent. Everyone works for money, everyone wants money, we all "worship" money in some way shape or form. Or at the very least need money. So IMO money is the father figure god of American culture.
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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2014, 03:09:20 PM »
So why do we not worship new gods every week?  Why didn't we worship Baal last week, and worship Thor this week?  Where are our plans to worship Apollo?  When is "worship Ra week"?  Why do we not see this sort of "worship chaos" like they did back in bibletime?  You'd think that without god's continuous presence, things would be even worse, but it's not.  Why is that?

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Offline jrtaylor

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Re: Why aren't we worshipping new gods every week?
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2014, 01:58:56 PM »
So why do we not worship new gods every week?  Why didn't we worship Baal last week, and worship Thor this week?  Where are our plans to worship Apollo?  When is "worship Ra week"?  Why do we not see this sort of "worship chaos" like they did back in bibletime?  You'd think that without god's continuous presence, things would be even worse, but it's not.  Why is that?

We have always been at war with Eurasia

Some people never learn and perhaps can't.  That's the fucking problem.