Author Topic: "...and lean not on your own understanding"  (Read 969 times)

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: "...and lean not on your own understanding"
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2014, 07:05:37 PM »
You might be surprised, Grendel.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Boots

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Re: "...and lean not on your own understanding"
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2014, 09:41:38 AM »
Can you give me an example of a scientific fact which contradicts the Bible?  Please note I am not asking for a scientific theory or hypothesis; rather a scientific fact.

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

It sounds like you need to brush up on exactly what a scientific theory is. Don't worry, it's a common problem with theists.

I like OCG very much, so I'd like to come to his defense here.  I don't see that his question was a misuse of "theory" in the scientific sense.  He was asking (and correct me if I'm wrong, OCG) for a specific bit of information--a single discreet fact--that contradicts the bible.  Yes, we always say "Evolution is both a theory and a fact," but I don't think that's what he's going for.

Maybe something like "the earth is suspended in space via the sun's gravity" is a scientific fact which could be construed as contradictory to the bible's claim that the earth is suspended/lying in a watery substance?  (forgive that I don't know the details of the bible verse)
It's one of the reasons I'm an atheist today.  I decided to take my religion seriously, and that's when it started to fall apart for me.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: "...and lean not on your own understanding"
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2014, 10:06:19 AM »
Can you give me an example of a scientific fact which contradicts the Bible?  Please note I am not asking for a scientific theory or hypothesis; rather a scientific fact.

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy


It sounds like you need to brush up on exactly what a scientific theory is. Don't worry, it's a common problem with theists.

I like OCG very much, so I'd like to come to his defense here.  I don't see that his question was a misuse of "theory" in the scientific sense.  He was asking (and correct me if I'm wrong, OCG) for a specific bit of information--a single discreet fact--that contradicts the bible.  Yes, we always say "Evolution is both a theory and a fact," but I don't think that's what he's going for.

Maybe something like "the earth is suspended in space via the sun's gravity" is a scientific fact which could be construed as contradictory to the bible's claim that the earth is suspended/lying in a watery substance?  (forgive that I don't know the details of the bible verse)

Correct.  Because Skeptic wrote (in essence) if a scientific fact conflicts with the Bible he will go with the Bible, I was asking for an example of such a scientific fact.  I added the clarification to insure there was no confusion over a scientific fact compared to a theory or hypothesis which may conflict with the Bible. 

And I thought I was being so careful in the wording.  OY! (as my Jewish cousin might say).

Thanking you for the clarification,

OldChurchGuy
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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: "...and lean not on your own understanding"
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2014, 10:21:49 AM »
I would start with Genesis. The very creation story with plants being created before the sun simply goes against the way things work. I suppose they could have been without light for the day or two it took before god actually got around to creating the sun, though, on the other hand there was the "light" which was created prior to everything else.
What was that, though? Some sort of cosmic shop-light? Or does that mean that people of those days simply believed that daytime was light and nighttime dark, and the sun and moon were only ornaments in the sky? That is rather the way the story reads.

There are many other things, such as breeding goats in front of striped sticks to get striped goats (or whatever exactly that verse is, sorry, don't have the ambition to look it up, but it gets mentioned so often that I don't think I need to). But when there is such a glaring anomaly right in the first couple of sentences, I think there is the natural tendency, in this more enlightened age, to take the whole thing as mythology.

Offline Grendel

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Re: "...and lean not on your own understanding"
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2014, 04:20:48 PM »
Can you give me an example of a scientific fact which contradicts the Bible?  Please note I am not asking for a scientific theory or hypothesis; rather a scientific fact.

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

It sounds like you need to brush up on exactly what a scientific theory is. Don't worry, it's a common problem with theists.

I like OCG very much, so I'd like to come to his defense here.  I don't see that his question was a misuse of "theory" in the scientific sense.  He was asking (and correct me if I'm wrong, OCG) for a specific bit of information--a single discreet fact--that contradicts the bible.  Yes, we always say "Evolution is both a theory and a fact," but I don't think that's what he's going for.

Maybe something like "the earth is suspended in space via the sun's gravity" is a scientific fact which could be construed as contradictory to the bible's claim that the earth is suspended/lying in a watery substance?  (forgive that I don't know the details of the bible verse)
He equated a theory with a hypothesis, and then tried to juxtapose it with a "fact" to further downplay and blur the meaning.

But hey, I see it all the time on this board - when one out of a hundred theists is able to speak in complete sentences and pretends to have an open mind, we fall all over ourselves to kiss their ass.
This 'free will' nonsense didn't seem to bother your god when it set up the sting operation in the Garden of Eden with two magic trees and a Talking Snakeā„¢

Offline Azdgari

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Re: "...and lean not on your own understanding"
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2014, 05:34:07 PM »
He equated a theory with a hypothesis ...

Is that what "or" means?

EDIT:  Before speculating on OCG's motivations for posting what he did, how he did, you might want to check on who he was replying to and the point he was trying to get at with that person.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 05:51:39 PM by Azdgari »
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: "...and lean not on your own understanding"
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2014, 06:46:14 PM »
Can you give me an example of a scientific fact which contradicts the Bible?  Please note I am not asking for a scientific theory or hypothesis; rather a scientific fact.

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

It sounds like you need to brush up on exactly what a scientific theory is. Don't worry, it's a common problem with theists.

I like OCG very much, so I'd like to come to his defense here.  I don't see that his question was a misuse of "theory" in the scientific sense.  He was asking (and correct me if I'm wrong, OCG) for a specific bit of information--a single discreet fact--that contradicts the bible.  Yes, we always say "Evolution is both a theory and a fact," but I don't think that's what he's going for.

Maybe something like "the earth is suspended in space via the sun's gravity" is a scientific fact which could be construed as contradictory to the bible's claim that the earth is suspended/lying in a watery substance?  (forgive that I don't know the details of the bible verse)
He equated a theory with a hypothesis, and then tried to juxtapose it with a "fact" to further downplay and blur the meaning.

But hey, I see it all the time on this board - when one out of a hundred theists is able to speak in complete sentences and pretends to have an open mind, we fall all over ourselves to kiss their ass.

I appreciate your candor. 

Based on what you have read and understood of the exchange with Skeptic, how would you have phrased the question?

Confident this old dog can learn a new trick or two,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: "...and lean not on your own understanding"
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2014, 10:21:01 PM »
You are way too nice to Grendel, OCG. Giving your religion a good name. Gotta stop that.  ;)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.