Author Topic: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist  (Read 7326 times)

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Online Willie

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #145 on: December 26, 2013, 07:37:55 PM »
I keep seeing this quote, how about this MM, but before I provide the hypothetical, you are NOT allowed to use your religion, god, or bible as a means of morality.

Now for the hypothetical:
What would you do if I flew to Australia tonight, broke into your home, injured you, and robbed you of all of your possessions? How would you feel? Is it right? Wrong? Why do you think so?


Do you see the problem with your "devil's advocate" approach?

I can't possibly respond to any question of right and wrong with the limits you impose. Its a stupid thing to suggest.

I find that answer rather shocking. You really, seriously, can't make this moral determination without it being handed to you you from some source outside of yourself? For that to be true, one would have to be a psychopath. From your posting history here, I do not believe you to be a psychopath, therefore I cannot accept your statement as true. And yet, I also do not think that you are a liar, so my suspicion is that you have somehow become convinced of something that is not true. You're better than this, MM. Even if your religion has convinced you that you are not.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 07:40:45 PM by Willie »

Offline Antidote

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #146 on: December 27, 2013, 01:57:05 AM »
Magicmiles, separate yourself from your religion for just a minute, and think about how you would FEEL, would it feel right for me to do the things I laid out in the hypothetical? and why?

You CAN answer this, you just think you can't.

EDIT:
Personally if I did the things I laid out in the hypothetical, I wouldn't be able to live with myself, I'd have that guilt with me until the day I died. It would eat at me, which is why I do not do those things. I'm not a thief, I do not assault people, and I have no desire to do any of those things.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 02:02:15 AM by Antidote »
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #147 on: December 27, 2013, 02:01:05 AM »
But I think we can't escape the fact that when we hear of certain things having happened, atrocities committed, pain inflicted - the intense feelings we experience, the anger, the sorrow, the horror - CANNOT be adequately explained by saying that they are a reaction to those behaviours being 'unhelpful' or 'harmful to the species'......When we hear of the evils in the world, if we are honest, we are not appaleed that someone has acted against what WE have decided is good  - rather, we are appalled that someone has committed an acty which re recognise is unambiguoulsy, objectively wrong.

Sorry MM but I disagree.  Because if that was truly the case, then everyone,throughout history, would always be appalled at the same actions.  We would not be having this debate, because we would not be able to point to one single thing that anyone ever disagreed upon as morally wrong.

It's harsh and horrible to think that, but that doesn't make it untrue.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline natlegend

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #148 on: February 15, 2014, 09:44:14 PM »
NICKLEBACK?????????
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #149 on: February 15, 2014, 09:56:15 PM »
Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist

Every thing we learn as a human being - from birth to death - has a teacher.
I am an Engineer, Politician, Nurse, Christian, Muslim Hindu, Buddhist because I was taught.
Atheism lacks the tutor.
For atheism to produce good atheists it has to have a "good" teacher.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 09:59:31 PM by Jesuis »
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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #150 on: February 15, 2014, 10:53:22 PM »
For atheism to produce good atheists it has to have a "good" teacher.

We only needed to learn one thing. That there is no god. Expertise is not required. Only the understanding that made up stuff is of no value.

I learned it in grade school. It was not an intellectual challenge.

We all need good teachers. But only to learn to be good humans. And I have no idea why some think that lies and deception are prerequisites to an alleged truth. Religion should be limited to the history books and classes on mythology. Otherwise, it only stifles knowledge.

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #151 on: February 16, 2014, 02:01:50 AM »
Atheism is like being human. We're homo sapiens, therefore we're human. We do not believe in a god or gods because we are atheists. Nothing more to add. Humans aren't dictated by anything but being a homo sapien. An atheist isn't dictated by anything but not believing in a god or gods. Everything else does not apply.

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This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #152 on: February 16, 2014, 02:40:09 AM »
Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist

Every thing we learn as a human being - from birth to death - has a teacher.
I am an Engineer, Politician, Nurse, Christian, Muslim Hindu, Buddhist because I was taught.
Atheism lacks the tutor.
For atheism to produce good atheists it has to have a "good" teacher.

So what you are saying is that every single skill and piece of knowledge there is, was originally taught to one human by a non-human?  That every "new" piece of knowledge is specifically imparted to a selected human by this other non-human teacher?

Sounds fascinating, but do you have a single shred of evidence for it?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline G-Roll

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #153 on: February 16, 2014, 08:36:29 AM »
And I thought I was a pessimist who disliked the human species as a whole. When I read the post left behind by some of our residential theists I realize that I have more way more faith in humanity and our species then they do. Honestly its rather disappointing.
A statement like atheists don’t have a good teacher to become engineers, politicians, and nurses is just mind boggling. I guess atheists don’t go to college and those colleges are not filled with commie atheist liberal teachers like Fox news constantly gripes about. For the others on the list I am as much a Christian, muslim, ect.. as much as I am a superhero, fire fighter, or Sioux Chief. No one is everything because no one has an interest in everything. So it isn’t perused.

For atheism to produce good atheists it has to have a "good" teacher. Psst.... hey... Good teachers teach everyone. We all have the same teachers. Even priests and pastors interact with people out in the world. Sometimes they actually leave the church.
Lol now I am curious as to what makes a good atheist. What is the standard of "good" an atheist must meet? Or are we just bad because we don’t obey the will of one of a million gods?   

Offline shnozzola

Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #154 on: February 16, 2014, 09:21:35 AM »
Where it becomes difficult for so many of us, though, is that we are determined to be the ones to decide what is right and wrong.............we are appalled that someone has committed an acty which re recognise is unambiguoulsy, objectively wrong.   

What happens is, we narrowly look at morals we see during our short span of existence and judge from the perceptions of our own small circle of culture that our morals are universal.  I believe Klu Klux Klan members consider themselves very religious  (and moral), and as seems sure, the Muslims  hurtling toward their deaths in planes considered themselves practicing true Islam.  And slave owners in the U.S. often read from the bible to their slaves.  Many Muslim women are convinced it is wrong to get an education.  And how about the death penalty?  We could go on and on.

edit:  added 'and moral' to the KKK  [rolls eyes]



« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 10:41:11 AM by shnozzola »
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #155 on: February 16, 2014, 10:37:52 AM »
That is something I have always said. Atheists borrow their morals from the Christian worldview.

Christian worldview came from people before them. Morals are derived from economics.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Online Nam

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #156 on: February 16, 2014, 10:44:50 AM »
That is something I have always said. Atheists borrow their morals from the Christian worldview.

Christian worldview came from people before them. Morals are derived from economics.


The thing is if atheists get their morals from Christians than Christians get their morals from Jews etc., etc.,

But Jews don't believe in hell so where they got that from...

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #157 on: February 16, 2014, 10:49:30 AM »

But Jews don't believe in hell so where they got that from...

-Nam

Probably economics. It makes sense to have a major deterrent against murder, theft and assassinations, so your economy can run better. Jews were incorporating the hell beliefs of the Persians, Babylonians and probably the Buddhists.

I was writing a treatise today, about how all morality is derived from economics, but it turned out to be so long and funny, that I didn't finish it. I was getting my facts right about infanticide, which is a fascinating topic.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #158 on: February 16, 2014, 01:20:14 PM »
It makes sense to have a major deterrent against murder......

Today I saw Lone Survivor, the true story about an American soldier who survives a failed mission in Afghanistan.  About how 2 boys and a man grazing their goats stumble onto American soldiers in hiding.  About 'wartime' choices - murder these village farmers, tie them up and continue with the mission, or let them go free and give up on the mission.  About the Taliban, and why murdering people from the west is necessary.  About Afghan villagers, and why an Afghan family will save an American from being murdered.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091191/
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 01:27:20 PM by shnozzola »
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Offline voodoo child

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #159 on: February 16, 2014, 02:09:12 PM »

I am an Engineer, Politician, Nurse, Christian, Muslim Hindu, Buddhist because I was taught.
Atheism lacks the tutor.


What a brilliant way to trash the human mind.  Throw a bunch of religions in a mixing bowl and hope it works.   
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #160 on: February 16, 2014, 10:19:04 PM »
One can teach lies. One can be tutored in lies. Just because a tutor or teacher exists does not help determine whether or not something is the truth.

Evidence does.

And all evidence points towards every religious belief if falsifiable, will be falsified. It is, therefore, indistinguishable from fiction. Then apply Occam's razor and nothing is left but the hard cold truth that there's nothing supernatural out there. Not ghosts, no post mortem existence, no deities, no magic, no karma, no universal justice, no objective/singular morality, nothing of the sort.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #161 on: February 17, 2014, 09:40:35 PM »
One can teach lies. One can be tutored in lies. Just because a tutor or teacher exists does not help determine whether or not something is the truth.

Evidence does.

And all evidence points towards every religious belief if falsifiable, will be falsified. It is, therefore, indistinguishable from fiction. Then apply Occam's razor and nothing is left but the hard cold truth that there's nothing supernatural out there. Not ghosts, no post mortem existence, no deities, no magic, no karma, no universal justice, no objective/singular morality, nothing of the sort.

Well for one thing, that's wrong. I have personally witnessed ghosts and supernatural activity. It's why I can not take atheism seriously anymore. I have seen the supernatural.

This is another perfect example of why reality is defined by subjectivity. In my reality, ghosts are real because I have seen them with my eyes. In your reality, ghosts are not real because you have never seen them.

But it is very wrong to think that they don't exist just because you personally have not seen them. It's the equivalent of someone saying, "Love does not exist because I never loved anyone."
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Backspace

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #162 on: February 17, 2014, 10:43:37 PM »
I have personally witnessed ghosts and supernatural activity... I have seen the supernatural.

What did the supernatural look like?  How many hits did it take you to see it?  Who were the ghosts of and what were they wearing? How long after you saw them did the ambulance arrive?

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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #163 on: February 18, 2014, 12:01:34 AM »
Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist

Every thing we learn as a human being - from birth to death - has a teacher.
I am an Engineer, Politician, Nurse, Christian, Muslim Hindu, Buddhist because I was taught.
Atheism lacks the tutor.
For atheism to produce good atheists it has to have a "good" teacher.

So what you are saying is that every single skill and piece of knowledge there is, was originally taught to one human by a non-human?  That every "new" piece of knowledge is specifically imparted to a selected human by this other non-human teacher?

Sounds fascinating, but do you have a single shred of evidence for it?
Birth means we are born blank. We are taught by the human who gave us birth.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #164 on: February 18, 2014, 12:05:43 AM »

I am an Engineer, Politician, Nurse, Christian, Muslim Hindu, Buddhist because I was taught.
Atheism lacks the tutor.


What a brilliant way to trash the human mind.  Throw a bunch of religions in a mixing bowl and hope it works.   
Whatever is in the bowl is in the bowl -  but one can keep adding more into it to flavour it.
In order to make sense out of anything - one would need to focus on that one thing - while all the stirring is going on.
It is poetic nonsense. I am working on it.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 01:17:35 AM by Jesuis »
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #165 on: February 18, 2014, 12:15:39 AM »
One can teach lies. One can be tutored in lies. Just because a tutor or teacher exists does not help determine whether or not something is the truth.

Evidence does.

And all evidence points towards every religious belief if falsifiable, will be falsified. It is, therefore, indistinguishable from fiction. Then apply Occam's razor and nothing is left but the hard cold truth that there's nothing supernatural out there. Not ghosts, no post mortem existence, no deities, no magic, no karma, no universal justice, no objective/singular morality, nothing of the sort.
A lie means you are not telling the truth.
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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #166 on: February 18, 2014, 12:30:29 AM »
But it is very wrong to think that they don't exist just because you personally have not seen them. It's the equivalent of someone saying, "Love does not exist because I never loved anyone."

It is also wrong to say they do exist because you THINK you've seen some. The human mind is way to capable of fooling itself. For you to take it for granted that you saw ghosts when so many others have not seen such things is careless.

Why do you suppose that I have never seen a ghost in my 60+ years of life. Are they afraid of me? Do they think I'll go boo and make them soil their sheets?

Like everything else that would have to exist outside of accepted norms, ghosts are unprovable. Gods, ghosts, Loch Ness monsters, bigfoot, leprechauns, fairies. We humans have a million of 'em.

It is far more likely that you think you've seen ghosts than it is that you actually saw some. Far more likely that you'v been fooled by yet another fantastic claim than it being something you actually experienced.

I don't doubt that you think it was real. As long as truth is not one of your priorities, you are probably willing to accept anything fantastic, Obamacare not withstanding.

You saw no ghosts. You think you did. That affects your ability to function on this planet. Which explains your unpopularity around here. It all ties together nicely, and explains far more about you than most of us want to know.

And any ghosts reading this, hey, join up and PM me. Tell me how I'm wrong. We'll arrange to meet and then we can see who is the scariest amongst us.
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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #167 on: February 18, 2014, 12:36:39 AM »
One can teach lies. One can be tutored in lies. Just because a tutor or teacher exists does not help determine whether or not something is the truth.

Evidence does.

And all evidence points towards every religious belief if falsifiable, will be falsified. It is, therefore, indistinguishable from fiction. Then apply Occam's razor and nothing is left but the hard cold truth that there's nothing supernatural out there. Not ghosts, no post mortem existence, no deities, no magic, no karma, no universal justice, no objective/singular morality, nothing of the sort.
A lie means you are not telling the truth.

At least when you're stating the obvious you make a little sense. But most of your posts are so disjointed I'm tempted to suggest you go see a chiropractor. For the most part, I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. Which is a good thing, except that I get curious every once in a while and want to know WTF is going on.

If you are for real, I assume you've run out of meds. If you are just trying to mess with our heads, you have a no idea how well we around here have adapted to sh*t being smeared on our screens by poes and trolls and believers (but I repeat myself).

Carry on. Maybe someday a psych major will be able to use your writings for their thesis or something.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #168 on: February 18, 2014, 01:15:12 AM »
One can teach lies. One can be tutored in lies. Just because a tutor or teacher exists does not help determine whether or not something is the truth.

Evidence does.

And all evidence points towards every religious belief if falsifiable, will be falsified. It is, therefore, indistinguishable from fiction. Then apply Occam's razor and nothing is left but the hard cold truth that there's nothing supernatural out there. Not ghosts, no post mortem existence, no deities, no magic, no karma, no universal justice, no objective/singular morality, nothing of the sort.
A lie means you are not telling the truth.

At least when you're stating the obvious you make a little sense. But most of your posts are so disjointed I'm tempted to suggest you go see a chiropractor. For the most part, I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. Which is a good thing, except that I get curious every once in a while and want to know WTF is going on.

If you are for real, I assume you've run out of meds. If you are just trying to mess with our heads, you have a no idea how well we around here have adapted to sh*t being smeared on our screens by poes and trolls and believers (but I repeat myself).

Carry on. Maybe someday a psych major will be able to use your writings for their thesis or something.
I know what I say sounds like strange. If it did not then it would not encourage change.
What we really need is a change.
If a psyche can help with changing things I will welcome his/her efforts.
It takes a mad man to try and change the mind set of the intelligent.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #169 on: February 18, 2014, 01:28:17 AM »
And I thought I was a pessimist who disliked the human species as a whole. When I read the post left behind by some of our residential theists I realize that I have more way more faith in humanity and our species then they do. Honestly its rather disappointing.
A statement like atheists don’t have a good teacher to become engineers, politicians, and nurses is just mind boggling. I guess atheists don’t go to college and those colleges are not filled with commie atheist liberal teachers like Fox news constantly gripes about. For the others on the list I am as much a Christian, muslim, ect.. as much as I am a superhero, fire fighter, or Sioux Chief. No one is everything because no one has an interest in everything. So it isn’t perused.

For atheism to produce good atheists it has to have a "good" teacher. Psst.... hey... Good teachers teach everyone. We all have the same teachers. Even priests and pastors interact with people out in the world. Sometimes they actually leave the church.
Lol now I am curious as to what makes a good atheist. What is the standard of "good" an atheist must meet? Or are we just bad because we don’t obey the will of one of a million gods?
TBH I was trying to make a point. Goodness is taught. Murphy's law. 
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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #170 on: February 18, 2014, 01:34:06 AM »
It takes a mad man to try and change the mind set of the intelligent.

Intelligent people change their minds quite often. But it is usually in response to evidence and well reasoned argument. Madness may help a person attempt to change the minds of the intelligent, but it will not help them succeed.

[edit] I'd have preferred to use the term "rational' rather than "intelligent", as this isn't really about one's innate intelligence, but rather one's reasoning skill and, even more so, one's tendency to use it. One can be highly intelligent (in the sense of IQ and general cleverness) yet thoroughly deluded, or of only modest intelligence yet quite rational and not easily deceived, even by himself.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 01:48:39 AM by Willie »

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #171 on: February 18, 2014, 01:52:17 AM »
It takes a mad man to try and change the mind set of the intelligent.

Intelligent people change their minds quite often. But it is usually in response to evidence and well reasoned argument. Madness may help a person attempt to change the minds of the intelligent, but it will not help them succeed.

[edit] I'd have preferred to use the term "rational' rather than "intelligent", as this isn't really about one's innate intelligence, but rather one's reasoning skill and, even more so, one's tendency to use it. One can be highly intelligent (in the sense of IQ and general cleverness) yet thoroughly deluded, or of only modest intelligence yet quite rational and not easily deceived, even by himself.
Thanks I needed that.
I think intelligent people changing their minds probably means they did not have the truth originally and recognized it. But recognizing it and accepting it takes time.
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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #172 on: February 18, 2014, 02:08:05 AM »
It takes a mad man to try and change the mind set of the intelligent.

Nope. All it takes is new information that shows old information to be wrong.

And it isn't a mind "set", it is a stance built on real information, as opposed to wishful thinking, dreams and hijinks.

Oh, and clarity is nice. Real nice. In fact, its required. Hence this approach of yours won't accomplish diddly.

There is never a good reason to be bizarre. Unless it is halloween and you wanna scare the kids.

So unless you live in a time zone where it is still October, I'd suggest another approach.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why there is No such thing as a good atheist
« Reply #173 on: February 18, 2014, 02:19:18 AM »
It takes a mad man to try and change the mind set of the intelligent.

Nope. All it takes is new information that shows old information to be wrong.

And it isn't a mind "set", it is a stance built on real information, as opposed to wishful thinking, dreams and hijinks.

Oh, and clarity is nice. Real nice. In fact, its required. Hence this approach of yours won't accomplish diddly.

There is never a good reason to be bizarre. Unless it is halloween and you wanna scare the kids.

So unless you live in a time zone where it is still October, I'd suggest another approach.
One would think so but the world is not filled with good logical rational human beings. Never was never will be - look how much problems you are having with the believers to bring them out of their beliefs. Look what they do to theists? Out of which many a mystic has spoken in a manner that keeps it mystical and out of reach of those with a negative intent.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.