Author Topic: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock  (Read 14360 times)

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #203 on: December 27, 2013, 09:38:49 PM »
One of my ancestors was Cherokee.

So, what?

I don't go around blaming the sorry state of my life on others just because great-great-great grandmother was packed off on the Trail of Tears. That's what.

You go around blaming us all for being the ancestor of Adam and Eve. How is that any different?
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #204 on: December 27, 2013, 09:40:47 PM »
gxusfreke

Does it bother you at all that your god knew that all of this would happen and he did nothing to stop it? He knew his admonishment to not eat of the tree would fall on deaf ears, yet he didn't tell them a second time or do anything else to prevent it.

Your god wanted all of this to happen. Otherwise it would have gone better.

Is that okay with you?

Why should it not be ok with me?  In my worldview, it could not be otherwise.  God is not unjust in any of this.

He created the universe, He created man, He created the rules.  Is it ok for God to use evil for a greater good?

Is it okay with you that God would choose to save some and not save all?  Would He be unjust if He chose not to save any?

I was just wondering how low you were willing to lower your standards. If there was a god and I had a chance to ask him anything, I'd ask why it was that he made humans kinder than he is. And why he insisted that his level of concern for us be called "love". It bears no resemblance to the human definition of that word.

If he is real, justice isn't involved. Dictators aren't concerned with such trifles.

Lower my standards?  By putting God above humankind?  By recognizing for all the "good" talk about how nice humans are, I see how you , Ambassador Pony, lotanddaughters, ad nauseum and ad inifinitum. can treat others badly.  Yep, you all are doing a good job of convincing me how "good" you are.
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #205 on: December 27, 2013, 09:41:52 PM »

You go around blaming us all for being the ancestor of Adam and Eve. How is that any different?

Is that what you really meant to say?  I never accused anyone of being Adam and Eve's ancestor.
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #206 on: December 27, 2013, 09:51:27 PM »

You go around blaming us all for being the ancestor of Adam and Eve. How is that any different?

Is that what you really meant to say?  I never accused anyone of being Adam and Eve's ancestor.

Are we not all sinners? Whose fault is that?
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #207 on: December 27, 2013, 09:53:41 PM »
Quote
I was just wondering how low you were willing to lower your standards. If there was a god and I had a chance to ask him anything, I'd ask why it was that he made humans kinder than he is. And why he insisted that his level of concern for us be called "love". It bears no resemblance to the human definition of that word.

If he is real, justice isn't involved. Dictators aren't concerned with such trifles.

Lower my standards?  By putting God above humankind?  By recognizing for all the "good" talk about how nice humans are, I see how you , Ambassador Pony, lotanddaughters, ad nauseum and ad inifinitum. can treat others badly.  Yep, you all are doing a good job of convincing me how "good" you are.

The number of people that Ambassador Pony, lotanddaughters, Ambassador Pony and I have allowed to burn for an eternity is zero. That automatically makes each of us billions of times nicer than your god. Many billions of times. Hey, even you're nicer than he is. but don't feel too bad about it. It's easy. Just care.
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #208 on: December 27, 2013, 09:54:45 PM »

You go around blaming us all for being the ancestor of Adam and Eve. How is that any different?

Is that what you really meant to say?  I never accused anyone of being Adam and Eve's ancestor.

Are we not all sinners? Whose fault is that?

Please re-read what you said:  "You go around blaming us all for being the ancestor of Adam and Eve."  How does being a sinner translate into me saying that someone is Adam and Eve's ancestor?  Do you mean  to say that I say "You are descendants of Adam and Eve."?

Are your meds working?

or is it

Your meds are working.
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #209 on: December 27, 2013, 09:56:39 PM »
Quote
I was just wondering how low you were willing to lower your standards. If there was a god and I had a chance to ask him anything, I'd ask why it was that he made humans kinder than he is. And why he insisted that his level of concern for us be called "love". It bears no resemblance to the human definition of that word.

If he is real, justice isn't involved. Dictators aren't concerned with such trifles.

Lower my standards?  By putting God above humankind?  By recognizing for all the "good" talk about how nice humans are, I see how you , Ambassador Pony, lotanddaughters, ad nauseum and ad inifinitum. can treat others badly.  Yep, you all are doing a good job of convincing me how "good" you are.

The number of people that Ambassador Pony, lotanddaughters, Ambassador Pony and I have allowed to burn for an eternity is zero. That automatically makes each of us billions of times nicer than your god. Many billions of times. Hey, even you're nicer than he is. but don't feel too bad about it. It's easy. Just care.

How many universes  have you created?  How many humans that you did not allow "to burn for an eternity" did you create and give life to?

See, in order to compare yourself to God, you first need to be one.  Oh wait, that's the point of atheism - you can be your own god if you just keep denying the real God.
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #210 on: December 27, 2013, 09:57:38 PM »

You go around blaming us all for being the ancestor of Adam and Eve. How is that any different?

Is that what you really meant to say?  I never accused anyone of being Adam and Eve's ancestor.

Are we not all sinners? Whose fault is that?

Please re-read what you said:  "You go around blaming us all for being the ancestor of Adam and Eve."  How does being a sinner translate into me saying that someone is Adam and Eve's ancestor?  Do you mean  to say that I say "You are descendants of Adam and Eve."?

Are your meds working?

or is it

Your meds are working.

My bad. I prostrate myself before you and apologize, trembling in fear since you've got the power of the lord and all.

All done. You missed me. Now I shall rephrase, for those of you who can't overlook minor details.

You blame us all for being the descendants of Adam and Eve. How is that any different?
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #211 on: December 27, 2013, 09:59:51 PM »
Quote
I was just wondering how low you were willing to lower your standards. If there was a god and I had a chance to ask him anything, I'd ask why it was that he made humans kinder than he is. And why he insisted that his level of concern for us be called "love". It bears no resemblance to the human definition of that word.

If he is real, justice isn't involved. Dictators aren't concerned with such trifles.

Lower my standards?  By putting God above humankind?  By recognizing for all the "good" talk about how nice humans are, I see how you , Ambassador Pony, lotanddaughters, ad nauseum and ad inifinitum. can treat others badly.  Yep, you all are doing a good job of convincing me how "good" you are.

The number of people that Ambassador Pony, lotanddaughters, Ambassador Pony and I have allowed to burn for an eternity is zero. That automatically makes each of us billions of times nicer than your god. Many billions of times. Hey, even you're nicer than he is. but don't feel too bad about it. It's easy. Just care.

How many universes  have you created?  How many humans that you did not allow "to burn for an eternity" did you create and give life to?

See, in order to compare yourself to God, you first need to be one.  Oh wait, that's the point of atheism - you can be your own god if you just keep denying the real God.

No, the point of atheism is to removed the false concept of gods from our vocabulary so we can progress, instead of voluntarily maintaining our stone age mindsets. You can assign all sorts of horror to atheism, because you don't like it, while you assign all sorts of magisterial wonder to your god because the last thing you want to do to the dude is piss him off. If he's real, I've pissed him off for over half a century, and I don't seem any the worse for wear. If he wants me dead, he knows how to do it. Unless he isn't real, in which case i'll go ahead and finish this sentence and stuff.
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #212 on: December 27, 2013, 10:02:41 PM »

How many universes  have you created?  How many humans that you did not allow "to burn for an eternity" did you create and give life to?


Forgot to respond to this.

I know you are going to think that this is the most amazing coincidence in the world, but I have created exactly as many universes as your god has. And as many humans as well. We might be twins or something.
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #213 on: December 27, 2013, 10:10:55 PM »

My bad. I prostrate myself before you and apologize, trembling in fear since you've got the power of the lord and all.

It's about dang time.  ;D

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All done. You missed me.

No, I caught it and I basked in your obeisance.  It was nice.  Really niiiiice.  Do it again. ;)

 
Quote
Now I shall rephrase, for those of you who can't overlook minor details.

Since when did "coherent speech and thoughts" become "minor details"?

Quote
You blame us all for being the descendants of Adam and Eve. How is that any different?

Okay, maybe I do dwell on minor details.  Your use of the word "blame" for instance.  I don't see how it is that I "blame" you for being a descendant of Adam and Eve any more than I "blame" you for being a human being or "blame" you for breathing. 

You are a human being.  It is a statement. 

You breathe (at least I hope you do).  It is a statement.

You are a descendant of Adam and Eve, as I am.  It is a statement, not a placement of "blame."

Now, inherent in that statement "You are a descendant of Adam and Eve" is the statement "therefore you (as I) are a sinner."

Now, what's the question?
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #214 on: December 27, 2013, 10:18:49 PM »
The question is this: You said it was inappropriate or useless or something to bring up being the descendant of peoples horribly mistreated. But you have also told us that we should worship your god, who punishes us for something someone else did.

I saw it as ironic. You probably don't see it at all. I was actually doing it for everyone else because I didn't for a second think that you would actually see the connection. My getting things backward in the first place kind of ruined the whole thing though. But I trust you'll give me more opportunities, and I promise I will word things better in the future.
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #215 on: December 27, 2013, 10:25:51 PM »
[No, the point of atheism is to removed the false concept of gods from our vocabulary so we can progress, instead of voluntarily maintaining our stone age mindsets.

I guess it was the "stone-age mindset" that cause Christians in Rome in the first and second centuries to go find babies abandoned in the streets and adopt them?

And it was this same "stone-age mindset" that caused the Church to start universities in Europe during the Middle Ages?  Even the Muslims started universities in Spain then.

And it was the same "stone-age mindset' that started many orphanages and hospitals in the past 2,000 years?

And it was the same "stone-age mindset" that started Harvard and Princeton Universities?


 
Quote
You can assign all sorts of horror to atheism, because you don't like it, while you assign all sorts of magisterial wonder to your god because the last thing you want to do to the dude is piss him off.[/quote]

See, that's where you go showing your ignorance again about Christianity.  I can't piss God off.  Why, because "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20 ESV.

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1, ESV

Now you on the other hand, well, not so good news:  "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day" Psalm 7:11 KJV


 
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If he's real, I've pissed him off for over half a century, and I don't seem any the worse for wear. If he wants me dead, he knows how to do it. Unless he isn't real, in which case i'll go ahead and finish this sentence and stuff.

You have unwittingly just proclaimed the greatness of God's mercy by stating what you did.  Your still being here is evidence that God is extending mercy to you and giving you more time to repent of your sin and confess Him as Lord.
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #216 on: December 27, 2013, 10:32:26 PM »
The question is this: You said it was inappropriate or useless or something to bring up being the descendant of peoples horribly mistreated. But you have also told us that we should worship your god, who punishes us for something someone else did.

I saw it as ironic. You probably don't see it at all. I was actually doing it for everyone else because I didn't for a second think that you would actually see the connection. My getting things backward in the first place kind of ruined the whole thing though.

Actually, you make a great point, except your logic is flawed.  There is a difference between blaming your own ancestors and blaming someone else's ancestors.


Quote
But I trust you'll give me more opportunities, and I promise I will word things better in the future.

Trust, as in "place your faith in"?  You are putting your faith in me?  That little time you spent in obeisance must have been as good for you as it was for me.  Are you "repenting" of your poor {word} choices? Then I forgive you.  Enter in[to additional discussion], thou good and faithful servant."
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

Offline Ivellios

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #217 on: December 27, 2013, 10:36:33 PM »

I don't consider 417 posts "a few." I'd wager most people do not either.

You've read them all?  I'm flattered.

Nope.

Wish I could say, "Not a one."  :P

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #218 on: December 27, 2013, 10:38:59 PM »
^^^

You're right. Between the fine things you mentioned an the Inquisition (which I'm pretty sure you meant to include but just forgot), you guys are practically wonderful. Toss in the many centuries in which you supported slavery, the decimation of native populations and homophobia, and I'm amazed that some of you haven't quite been made saints yet.

If you're gonna take credit for the good, you have to take credit for the bad too. Its a rule or something.

And sure you can piss off god. Just cavort with atheists.

Anyway, I'm sort of amazed how your god's mercy and doing nothing at all so closely resemble each other. They are an exact match, actually. Something I don't consider accidental. If the best your god can do with me is resemble a non-existent state, I'll consider that evidence against him.

When you got nuttin', I'll use it to my advantage.
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #219 on: December 27, 2013, 10:40:18 PM »

I don't consider 417 posts "a few." I'd wager most people do not either.

You've read them all?  I'm flattered.

Nope.

Wish I could say, "Not a one."  :P

Oh well, que sera sera.  You can being a new life and repent now of ever reading any of my posts, and with the Good Lord's help, you won't have to read another one.
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #220 on: December 27, 2013, 10:43:33 PM »
The question is this: You said it was inappropriate or useless or something to bring up being the descendant of peoples horribly mistreated. But you have also told us that we should worship your god, who punishes us for something someone else did.

I saw it as ironic. You probably don't see it at all. I was actually doing it for everyone else because I didn't for a second think that you would actually see the connection. My getting things backward in the first place kind of ruined the whole thing though.

Actually, you make a great point, except your logic is flawed.  There is a difference between blaming your own ancestors and blaming someone else's ancestors.

My ancestors subjugated innocent people and caused undue harm to many. Adam and Eve did the same thing, according to you. Are you against bringing up long histories if they don't work to your advantage? Or is it okay to mention the similarities? You didn't seem to like it before. What is your current stance?


Quote
Quote
But I trust you'll give me more opportunities, and I promise I will word things better in the future.

Trust, as in "place your faith in"?  You are putting your faith in me?  That little time you spent in obeisance must have been as good for you as it was for me.  Are you "repenting" of your poor {word} choices? Then I forgive you.  Enter in[to additional discussion], thou good and faithful servant."

Nah, no faith. It was an assumption that you would keep talking about this god stuff and give me lots of material. I finished repenting a few posts back.
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #221 on: December 27, 2013, 10:43:37 PM »
^^^

You're right. Between the fine things you mentioned an the Inquisition (which I'm pretty sure you meant to include but just forgot), you guys are practically wonderful. Toss in the many centuries in which you supported slavery, the decimation of native populations and homophobia, and I'm amazed that some of you haven't quite been made saints yet.

If you're gonna take credit for the good, you have to take credit for the bad too. Its a rule or something.

And sure you can piss off god. Just cavort with atheists.

Anyway, I'm sort of amazed how your god's mercy and doing nothing at all so closely resemble each other. They are an exact match, actually. Something I don't consider accidental. If the best your god can do with me is resemble a non-existent state, I'll consider that evidence against him.

When you got nuttin', I'll use it to my advantage.

I hear Herve Villachaize saying "The plane, the plane.  Parking Places missed the plane.  He's still here on Fantasy Island."

Not only do you not write coherently at times, you also don't listen coherently at times either.
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #222 on: December 27, 2013, 10:46:53 PM »
Not only do you not write coherently at times, you also don't listen coherently at times either.

Oh, I was trying to speak in your native language. Not working, huh?
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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #223 on: December 27, 2013, 10:50:37 PM »
The question is this: You said it was inappropriate or useless or something to bring up being the descendant of peoples horribly mistreated. But you have also told us that we should worship your god, who punishes us for something someone else did.

I saw it as ironic. You probably don't see it at all. I was actually doing it for everyone else because I didn't for a second think that you would actually see the connection. My getting things backward in the first place kind of ruined the whole thing though.

Actually, you make a great point, except your logic is flawed.  There is a difference between blaming your own ancestors and blaming someone else's ancestors.

My ancestors subjugated innocent people and caused undue harm to many. Adam and Eve did the same thing, according to you. Are you against bringing up long histories if they don't work to your advantage? Or is it okay to mention the similarities? You didn't seem to like it before. What is your current stance?


Quote
Quote
But I trust you'll give me more opportunities, and I promise I will word things better in the future.

Trust, as in "place your faith in"?  You are putting your faith in me?  That little time you spent in obeisance must have been as good for you as it was for me.  Are you "repenting" of your poor {word} choices? Then I forgive you.  Enter in[to additional discussion], thou good and faithful servant."

Nah, no faith. It was an assumption that you would keep talking about this god stuff and give me lots of material. I finished repenting a few posts back.

So now it's your ancestors who were the victimizers.  12 Monkeys will come looking for you. >:(

God assigned Adam to represent all of mankind.  Adam sinned, representing that any man, if given the opportunity to be in Adam's place, would have done the same thing.  God did not assign an of my other ancestors to represent me.  I am responsible for being a sinner who, if I had been created first, would have disobeyed.  I am not responsible for any sins my ancestors committed.  I am not responsible for Adam's sin.
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #224 on: December 27, 2013, 10:52:09 PM »
Not only do you not write coherently at times, you also don't listen coherently at times either.

Oh, I was trying to speak in your native language. Not working, huh?

Epic fail.
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #225 on: December 27, 2013, 11:06:55 PM »
God assigned Adam to represent all of mankind.  Adam sinned, representing that any man, if given the opportunity to be in Adam's place, would have done the same thing.  God did not assign an of my other ancestors to represent me.  I am responsible for being a sinner who, if I had been created first, would have disobeyed.  I am not responsible for any sins my ancestors committed.  I am not responsible for Adam's sin.

First of all, I would like to apologize. I admit, I have not spent as much time studying the many religious distortions of reality as you have. My almost manic insistence upon dealing with squarely with reality puts me at a distinct disadvantage when facing a foe who gets to make everything up. Mere facts are nothing against you when you insist that you have just trumped them with your fantasies and ill gotten justifications.

It is impossible for the two of us to have a civil conversation. My concern in life is actual solutions to real problems, while yours is prepping for heavens gate, and there is no way to meld the two mindsets without things getting ugly.

But have no fear. At some point in the future, someone like you will find justification to shoot someone like me, and your side will win. And you and your brethren, sporting outdate and wrong information, will get the power you so desire. The sad part is that I, not roasting in hell, will miss out on you not ending up in heaven. That's the part I'd love to see.

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #226 on: December 27, 2013, 11:09:26 PM »
[No, the point of atheism is to removed the false concept of gods from our vocabulary so we can progress, instead of voluntarily maintaining our stone age mindsets.

I guess it was the "stone-age mindset" that cause Christians in Rome in the first and second centuries to go find babies abandoned in the streets and adopt them?

And it was this same "stone-age mindset" that caused the Church to start universities in Europe during the Middle Ages?  Even the Muslims started universities in Spain then.

And it was the same "stone-age mindset' that started many orphanages and hospitals in the past 2,000 years?

And it was the same "stone-age mindset" that started Harvard and Princeton Universities?


 
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You can assign all sorts of horror to atheism, because you don't like it, while you assign all sorts of magisterial wonder to your god because the last thing you want to do to the dude is piss him off.

See, that's where you go showing your ignorance again about Christianity.  I can't piss God off.  Why, because "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20 ESV.

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1, ESV

Now you on the other hand, well, not so good news:  "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day" Psalm 7:11 KJV


 
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If he's real, I've pissed him off for over half a century, and I don't seem any the worse for wear. If he wants me dead, he knows how to do it. Unless he isn't real, in which case i'll go ahead and finish this sentence and stuff.

You have unwittingly just proclaimed the greatness of God's mercy by stating what you did.  Your still being here is evidence that God is extending mercy to you and giving you more time to repent of your sin and confess Him as Lord.
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While you masturbate to all the "good things" Christians have done,why don't you take some time to reflect on the evil things "Christians" have done?

 Dismissing bad things Christians do in the name of a god is easy,because you just have to state "they are not REALLY Christians".

 Can somebody fix the quote
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 11:13:06 PM by 12 Monkeys »
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #227 on: December 27, 2013, 11:18:11 PM »
Everywhere Christians go they leave bodies in their wake and blame it on progress. Progress of the heathens,progress of the wealth of the church,progress of the word of the lord  The Catholic church make the Mexican and Colombian drug wars look like child's play

PP clearly stated that his ancestors did benefit from the workings of the churches it matters not if they took part in the killing of indigenous cultures or not,they reaped the benefit
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 11:24:43 PM by 12 Monkeys »
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #228 on: December 27, 2013, 11:22:52 PM »
The question is this: You said it was inappropriate or useless or something to bring up being the descendant of peoples horribly mistreated. But you have also told us that we should worship your god, who punishes us for something someone else did.

I saw it as ironic. You probably don't see it at all. I was actually doing it for everyone else because I didn't for a second think that you would actually see the connection. My getting things backward in the first place kind of ruined the whole thing though.

Actually, you make a great point, except your logic is flawed.  There is a difference between blaming your own ancestors and blaming someone else's ancestors.

My ancestors subjugated innocent people and caused undue harm to many. Adam and Eve did the same thing, according to you. Are you against bringing up long histories if they don't work to your advantage? Or is it okay to mention the similarities? You didn't seem to like it before. What is your current stance?


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But I trust you'll give me more opportunities, and I promise I will word things better in the future.

Trust, as in "place your faith in"?  You are putting your faith in me?  That little time you spent in obeisance must have been as good for you as it was for me.  Are you "repenting" of your poor {word} choices? Then I forgive you.  Enter in[to additional discussion], thou good and faithful servant."

Nah, no faith. It was an assumption that you would keep talking about this god stuff and give me lots of material. I finished repenting a few posts back.

So now it's your ancestors who were the victimizers.  12 Monkeys will come looking for you. >:(

God assigned Adam to represent all of mankind.  Adam sinned, representing that any man, if given the opportunity to be in Adam's place, would have done the same thing.  God did not assign an of my other ancestors to represent me.  I am responsible for being a sinner who, if I had been created first, would have disobeyed.  I am not responsible for any sins my ancestors committed.  I am not responsible for Adam's sin.
So if you have lived the perfect life could you be like Jesus in every way except for one? and Adam did not sin Eve did
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #229 on: December 27, 2013, 11:48:48 PM »
GF what is literal to one follower is symbolic to another,the problem here is that not one group of theists can agree on symbolic/literal. The symbolic/literal debate has been a wedge issue for believers since these stupid books were written and mashed together

Please show some respect. Had your ancestors not followed the Bible, you might not have been born.

Just something to chew on.


Are you suggesting that you had no ancestors that existed before the bible?
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #230 on: December 28, 2013, 12:54:23 PM »
One of my ancestors was Cherokee.

So, what?

I don't go around blaming the sorry state of my life on others just because great-great-great grandmother was packed off on the Trail of Tears. That's what.

Well, then it is not pertinent to what I was saying in response to the thought skep raised. 
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: The concept of sin is our biggest roadblock
« Reply #231 on: December 28, 2013, 01:24:32 PM »
^^^

You're right. Between the fine things you mentioned an the Inquisition (which I'm pretty sure you meant to include but just forgot), you guys are practically wonderful. Toss in the many centuries in which you supported slavery, the decimation of native populations and homophobia, and I'm amazed that some of you haven't quite been made saints yet.

I don't think you are fully taking on God's gezusfreke's point here:

If you did anything horrible, then you were never a Christian in the first place. You were simply failing to listen to gezusfreke's God's voice in your head
If you never did anything wrong, you are a liar and damned "Rom:3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

In all of history, there has never been a Christian, so don't go blaming them for bad things. It was all man's fault for exercising free-will wrongly.

However, now, with God's gezusfreke's guidance we can all go to heaven.

I hope this helps.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”